Why Don't Crossdressers Make Progress?

There was a thread recently, about what price have you paid for being a CD. I for one can tell you, that it only took a rumour from one, for me to be harassed by many till I retired. The price is heavy for many if us. Loss of family, friends and job. The one's who have found acceptance are rare in my observation.

And one more thing. Wasn't there some political action going on here in the states, involving GBLT groups, and were we not kicked to the curb, because we would have made it tougher for GBL's to get there initiative through ?

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but I think some of it ironically has to do with what some of us consider to be pro-gay/transgender media. Movies like Hedwig and the Angry Inch and Precilla Queen of the Desert, and many others, while they can be good, paint the community as being weirdos or at the very lease mentally unbalanced. Some of us would just like to live what we consider to be our normal lives without the flamboyant stuff. It's understandable that someone seeing Agent Smith from the Matrix in full drag would think "wow, is this what being transgendered is?" and not accept the idea as willingly as seeing what most of us look like. Just normal people.

Personally, growing up in the 90's, the transgendered media I saw made me ashamed of the way I felt about myself. For a long time I tried to supress who I am. So while some may say "well at least the films address our cause", I ask myself at what price this exposure comes at.

We have made strides and will continue to do so, but as long as some films and shows keep painting us as over the top, flamboyant weirdos, we're going to still be looked upon as just that.

Anywho, it's 7 am and I'm running on empty from working on college finals stuff all night, so apologies for the rambling.

-jamie

and wish to stay that way.

The drag queens get the attention and that is not the image most CD'ers want.

Most CD'ers are heterosexual and many if not most are married, their wives do not know and if they did it would end the marriage, job and family!

So it is much more complicated than just CD'ing.

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Originally Posted by Joy Carter

And one more thing. Wasn't there some political action going on here in the states, involving GBLT groups, and were we not kicked to the curb, because we would have made it tougher for GBL's to get there initiative through ?

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Yes.

It really was a "win something" or "win nothing" scenerio.
The gay community has exended a hand to transgender and crossdressers over and over again, often only encountering hate and homophobia. The perfect cant be allowed to be the enemy of the good.

Remember this when you go to a gay club for the safe atmosphere on friday, but support anti-gay stances on sunday morning and vote against gay issues on tuesday. Transgendered and Crossdressers really need to start jumping in and fighting the fight. They can't sit it out and expect the gay community to get bloody and always hand them their rights on a platter.

If you assume that this forum is a valid cross section of TG/CDs, Most won't even stand up for equal rights in their own personal relationships nevermind the workplace or government agencies. So why should the gay community risk losing even one fight simply to carry such dead weight with them? If you want TG/Cd equal rights stop hiding and get them, don't blame the gay community for leaving you behind.

I present as a female in the real world every day and fight for my rights. Who can say the same thing?

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Unfortunately, when you have HRC throwing TG's under the bus to get a much watered-down national ENDA passed, along with Rep. Barney Frank and Sen. Ted Kennedy jumping ship, well it makes it all that much harder. Although these issues relate more to TG/TS folk, the TG language does relate to crossdressers and protections.

Sadly, most people will be much more sympathetic and understanding if you were gay versus being transgendered - simply the facts of where we are in the fight at this time.

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Originally Posted by frenchie

...while a woman can wear a mans suit and still look very sexy and be accepted?

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All the Olive Garden restaurants that I'm familiar with
have waitresses wearing mens white shirts, dark long ties
and pants...and nobody bats an eye...and yes, they still look
sexy and feminine. Oh Well...

Another thing is that when you are gay you usually don't change what you wear. You don't stick out like some transgendered people.

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Originally Posted by barfra

...no one is going to kill you are they, they are not going hack of your arms ore legs...

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As soon as I read this, I thought about Matthew murdered on the
barb wire fence in Wyoming. Call me a coward, but I like living.

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Originally Posted by Seville

All the Olive Garden restaurants that I'm familiar with
have waitresses wearing mens white shirts, dark long ties
and pants...and nobody bats an eye...and yes, they still look
sexy and feminine. Oh Well...

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That's why nobody bats an eye - 'cause they still look female and are still attractive to all those who are attracted to women. But if they didn't look "sexy and feminine", you can be sure they'd be harassed too.

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Originally Posted by CaptLex

But if they didn't look "sexy and feminine", you can be sure they'd be harassed too.

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I disagree. A cute face is a cute face. A woman could wear a stack of bricks, and if she has as cute face nobody will care, though they might question her fashion sense.
What you are comparing is as if a man had to wear female attire to work, yet somehow managed to look handsome and masculine. People would stare for a bit but go about their business because they assume the man is probably psycholigically sound.

Whether a person is harrassed or not really depends on their demeanor and how they present themself and whether a second party feels threatened or mystified the person.

because you are all in the closet - stuck in there wondering what the world will think of you - worrying about wives/girlfriends why did you get married if you thought you were tv ? i never did i just knew i would end up nicking my girlfriends stuff ! it amazes me just how many tvs think the answer is fight it then turn around and ask a stupid question like this ! why because you are too ruled by masculinity to ever be recognised as anything else ! gay people are proud of who they are !! most trannies are not youll never win - i will caus i have accepted myself finally - takes time to get there though !

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Originally Posted by Genifer Teal

Closeted CDs are not jumping out to say here I am - take it or leave it. For the most part, they are stay ing in the closet.

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Isn't that primarily because of fear, whether or not that is reasonable? :idontknow:

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Originally Posted by Ibuki_Warpetal

I disagree. A cute face is a cute face. A woman could wear a stack of bricks, and if she has as cute face nobody will care, though they might question her fashion sense.
What you are comparing is as if a man had to wear female attire to work, yet somehow managed to look handsome and masculine. People would stare for a bit but go about their business because they assume the man is probably psycholigically sound.

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Surely the difference is, these women are not trying to be men? :strugglin

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Originally Posted by Nicki B

Surely the difference is, these women are not trying to be men? :strugglin

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That's exactly my point. People don't think that they are "trying to be something they are not", just because they are wearing a suit-like uniform.

People have a problem with people "being things they aren't supposed to be". Best example I can think of is "wiggers", blanket term for white kids who "act black". Pretty much everyone who doesn't appreciate urban culture associates being a "wigger" as neolithic. They actually get more hate than we do.

I agree Ibuki

CDs wont progress so long as they are fixated on passing which at the end of the day is simply trying to deceive people that you are an actual GG. People don't like being deceived, they automatically assume the worst about the other person. It is a fun experience for us, but not for them. People feel scared and angry when they are uncertain of another person's intentions.

Passing may score maximum points on escapism, feeling the ultimate feminine feelings, and perfecting a project etc, but we lose sight on how a lay-person is going to interpret our behavior. Even if they are liberal and open-minded, they will still perceive us to be weird and different because this is not normal human behavior to deceive to this degree.

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Originally Posted by Ibuki_Warpetal

I disagree. A cute face is a cute face. A woman could wear a stack of bricks, and if she has as cute face nobody will care, though they might question her fashion sense.

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I was talking about females or female-bodied people who don't dress cute and sexy (cute face notwithstanding), and are harassed either mildly by friends, family and peers, or more violently by people who feel threatened (as you mentioned) because they want them to dress or present more feminine.

There are plenty of cute-as-a-button transguys and butch lesbians who go through incessant teasing and harassment because they won't just give in and please their parents, for example, because they won't wear a skirt or grow out their hair or wear makeup.

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Originally Posted by Ibuki_Warpetal

Whether a person is harrassed or not really depends on their demeanor and how they present themself and whether a second party feels threatened or mystified the person.

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The demeanor doesn't guarantee anything, but I agree that it will happen if someone feels threatened (and/or revulsed).

Joy Carter.........sound like you have a perfect case of "Sexual discrimination" that you could have brought against you company. Here in Dallas, TX the city passed anti-discrimination law that protect T-Girls in the work place and in public. If it were to happen to me, I would walk into the HR department and flat them them that I was going to file suit about it. I would see a scramble to prevent me from filing the suit. Most companies will bend over backwards not to be suied for "Sexual Harrasment" even if the company, ciry, or state does not cover T-Girls. Harrasment is illegal regaurdless of the content.

I have read all of the posts in this thread and I think some of you may not be aware of whats going on.

The main reason is in my IMHO, you are not out in the greater community. Most of you need to attend an active group in your area, but especially attend many of the conferences such as Southern Comfort, Be All, IFGE and more. You will find that many organizations are active in the human rights movement. The progress that you have seen has been the result of a few and needs to be continued by the "many." When was the last time you talked to a legislater concerning your rights and beliefs? Probably never! When was the last time you attended a conference to find out how you can make a difference? Many voices DO create change and you all need to be heard.

So much for my "soap box" for today. The word is change is created by the many, not just a few. :2c:

kristine239.....Your so right. Reading about the Dallas Law, I found it took almost all the TG groups together here in Dallas to get the Mayor to agree to add protection for the TG. In fact it took almost to the dealine to get the law changed to add the protection for TG people.
My Tri-Ess chapter does out-reach. I hope to be able to help in this. They have held sminars for local police and Fire Departments, Colleges, and even High Schools. They even attended the Pride March and had a booth at the Pride Fest last year.

The problem is that most CDs cower in the closet. If you don't acknowledge and accept yourself, then how can you expect other folks to acknowledge and accept you. If you remain closeted, this will never change and progress will never be made.

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Originally Posted by kristine239

I have read all of the posts in this thread and I think some of you may not be aware of whats going on.

The main reason is in my IMHO, you are not out in the greater community. Most of you need to attend an active group in your area, but especially attend many of the conferences such as Southern Comfort, Be All, IFGE and more. You will find that many organizations are active in the human rights movement. The progress that you have seen has been the result of a few and needs to be continued by the "many." When was the last time you talked to a legislater concerning your rights and beliefs? Probably never! When was the last time you attended a conference to find out how you can make a difference? Many voices DO create change and you all need to be heard.

So much for my "soap box" for today. The word is change is created by the many, not just a few. :2c:

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that is your feeling that you and only you have to overcome it. It is our own embarrassment to deal with. That is not to say that alot of us don't have it and we have to over come it too. But mostly it is an individual thing

For the most part I think we have made some progress at least for the going out and about CD and TS people do get noticed but generally folks don't care. Now that maybe a little different in an office setting where some one may be transitioning Being a TS is a hard to hide and it may result in discrimination. People do have a hard time with it on a personal level. It is kind of like a very flaming gay man. If you are in peoples faces they will be offended.

It's true that the general public is tolerant of gay people. They are accepted in our society due to the great strides whch were made regarding gay rights and also their presence in the media and politics.
I don't think there is anyone these days who don't know what the rainbow colors represent.
However, I still cringe when I see how the media represents us. We are presented to be a two-legged freak show..and why is it that the cameras always seem to capture a less desirable looking crossdresser? (usually cop shows).
The mentality of most is still stuck in an old mindset... "John by day, Janet by night". How many times have you seen that one on television?
It may not be ignorance but I think it is a lack of understanding and a need for education.
There are still many, many people who despise gays and transgender people. I think understanding will be prevalent with time, maybe not within our lives.
I am delighted though when I do see us in the media in a positive light. I set my own personal strides each day by wearing what I want to wear...even a little makeup! It's my life!

maybe where you live plays a part i dont know - i live in england and all i can go on is the fact i didnt get any probs being out en femme the other day cant wait for the next time - maybe i am one of the lucky ones - i dont think i could be read - so if you look the part you know you are not doing anything to help the cause of transgendered people - still i dont care i just want to do what i want to do - my aim has always been to see if i can pass as a genetic female - and i'll find out a lot more form now on as i start to go out more - but seroiusly the only way cders will make steps forward to becoming accepted in everyday life is to just go out there and do it !! women will love it a guy thats in touch with his feminine side, have more in common with ggs it stands to reason to me - gay people were in the closet once but i guess the difference is they knew what they wanted - same as women did with equal rights as men - do cders know what they want ? thats whats bothering me !!

Hmmm. After reading all the posts, I'm left wondering what exactly are we seeking? You want to dress up and go out. Do it. Nothing is going to happen to you, if you use a little common sense. If you go out late at night in a bad area, you might get beat up and robbed. But you would probably get beat up and robbed dressed as a guy, in the same area, late at night.
If somebody "makes you", so what. Assault is still a crime, no matter what you are wearing. If somebody makes you, you might hear a few snickers or remarks, but not likely. But even gays put up with that. It's not a perfect world, and never will be.
In most cases, if you look reasonably passable, and conduct yourself appropriately, you will have no problems. If you can't stand an occasional stare, I guess you better stay home. No laws are ever going to eliminate that.

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Originally Posted by Melinda G

Hmmm. After reading all the posts, I'm left wondering what exactly are we seeking? You want to dress up and go out. Do it. Nothing is going to happen to you, if you use a little common sense. If you go out late at night in a bad area, you might get beat up and robbed. But you would probably get beat up and robbed dressed as a guy, in the same area, late at night.
If somebody "makes you", so what. Assault is still a crime, no matter what you are wearing. If somebody makes you, you might hear a few snickers or remarks, but not likely. But even gays put up with that. It's not a perfect world, and never will be.
In most cases, if you look reasonably passable, and conduct yourself appropriately, you will have no problems. If you can't stand an occasional stare, I guess you better stay home. No laws are ever going to eliminate that.

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i agree...learn how to dress and act and you will not have a problem...going into gay bars in the seedy parts of the city will catch up with you..its not that your dressed..its the fact your in a bad part of town and just left a gay bar....i will withhold any replies to any same sex activities..even though i have dressed for years my views on that lifestyle are not favorable.

We need to just get dressed and get out in public, however we need to dress in a presentable manner, age and size appropriate, since I have started dressing in public I have had positive experiences, and peaple seem to be curious, and have questions of why we dress in womens clothing. Yes there are some jerks out there, who cares, I have run into a couple of jerks, and I am not afraid to kick their ass if needs be. I know it is difficult for most of us to announce we like to wear dresses, but we need to get public exposure, and assert our rights to wear womens clohing, and try not looking like freaks.
We need to assert our rights to wear womens clothing, we have rights to wear what we want as long as we show descency, we dont need any special protection, we just need to come out of the closet.

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Originally Posted by JoAnnDallas

Joy Carter.........sound like you have a perfect case of "Sexual discrimination" that you could have brought against you company. Here in Dallas, TX the city passed anti-discrimination law that protect T-Girls in the work place and in public. If it were to happen to me, I would walk into the HR department and flat them them that I was going to file suit about it. I would see a scramble to prevent me from filing the suit. Most companies will bend over back wards not to be sued for "Sexual Harassment" even if the company, ciry, or state does not cover T-Girls. Harassment is illegal regardless of the content.

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Not in Ohio. In fact after three years of being harassed at all levels, including by the department head. I went to HR and the head boss. Things got worse from there, even though I was promised something would be done. I was told that the whole thing was my fault in the first place. Maybe I ought to write a book.

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Originally Posted by Melinda G

Hmmm. After reading all the posts, I'm left wondering what exactly are we seeking? You want to dress up and go out. Do it. Nothing is going to happen to you, if you use a little common sense. If you go out late at night in a bad area, you might get beat up and robbed. But you would probably get beat up and robbed dressed as a guy, in the same area, late at night.
If somebody "makes you", so what. Assault is still a crime, no matter what you are wearing. If somebody makes you, you might hear a few snickers or remarks, but not likely. But even gays put up with that. It's not a perfect world, and never will be.
In most cases, if you look reasonably passable, and conduct yourself appropriately, you will have no problems. If you can't stand an occasional stare, I guess you better stay home. No laws are ever going to eliminate that.

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What are we seeking? Maybe we should first ask, 'what should we be seeking'.

Lets see... (In no particular order of importance)

Adding gender expresion to any hate crime legislation (Don't start a debate about whether there should be hate crime legislation please, thats a seperate issue. The fact is that where there is such legislation religion is usually covered but gender expression often isn't. Abolishing the lot may be your preferance but where/while it does exist gender expression should be included!)

Employment protection for gender expression especially for transexuals or in home life. People have been fired simply because someone discovered they crossdress at home or when going out even when that has no effect whatsoever at work. People have been fired for transitioning.

Programs to stamp out phobic bullying and violence at schools and in the broader community. There has been enough murders and it's time something was done about it. The number of trans people murdered already this year is absolutely horrific!

Quality support systems to lower the collosal suicide rate amongst transgender people.

Help for oppressed transgender people in other countries. Crossdressers risk abusive prison or execution in some countries!

In countries with public health services ensuring hormones, srs etc are all appropriatly covered.

Transgender people are dissproportionately homeless, this needs to be addressed.

A significant number of trans people around the world are forced into prostitution because of employment discrimination. No matter peoples views on the criminality or regulation of prostitution, providing help for those who want out of it so they have other employment options should be in the list.

Thats a few off the top of my head. Any other suggestions?

I have to disagree that we aren't making any progress. I don't see that many stories in the news, but sometimes that is a good thing. In New England we are going loud and strong. We have 3 or 4 very active groups. One even meets in a pretty low key restarant and they love them there! I've gone out with a number of girls 2 or 3 of us at a time to malls and stores in the daylight and not had any problems here. Many of us are passable but not all of the time. I think the more people recognize us, the easier it is for us to be out and about.

I love what Genifer and Jamie said we have more Cd's still in the closet then Cd's who go out and that is so true. As for making progress we have made on our own,........ none the progress that we have is from the fight that the gay community has done, we Cd's are still fighting about pass.


LA CINDY LOVE

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Originally Posted by LA CINDY LOVE

none the progress that we have is from the fight that the gay community has done, we Cd's are still fighting about pass.

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Without the gay communities support crossdressing would still be illegal in many countries!

There have been very good supportive allies for transgender people amongst the gay community.

With their help many discriminations have been overturned. When certain members of the gay rights movement abandoned us the greatest proportion of LGBT groups sided with us!

The gay community is not our enemy but our ally. Sure there are transphobics amongst them just as there are homophobics amongst us. Still the fact is that the gay community has indeed won us progress.

I think we need to get better organised. I think we need to create more safe spaces for people to be free to dress in, anonymously (CD masquerade parties anyone?) for those deeply closeted to help slowly draw people out of the closet.

I think we need ways to make some degree of activism a part of the crossdressing experience. Get CD online stores to donate a small percentage of profit of certain items to TG causes and encourage people to support them. Build strong inclusive tolerant communities in regional centres to help more people have a place to go, people to support them as they come out. Get people to volunteer time as well as money to help things like trans friendly homeless shelters.

Caring, nurturing, giving, supporting, all traditionally feminine qualities. So lets bring them into part of our crossdressing experience for the benefit of ourselves and the community.

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Originally Posted by battybattybats

There have been very good supportive allies for transgender people amongst the gay community.

I think we need to get better organised.

I think we need ways to make some degree of activism a part of the crossdressing experience.

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I agree! Well said, sister!

Blessings,
Rikki Chunn

In Washington DC you will find many congressional staffers in their 20's, not so much in their 30's. The energy and blind passion needed to engage in political activism is often found amongst the youth. People become more synical with politics as they get older.

Caught cross-dressing can be political suicide for any college aged kid interested in a future run for office. But this is not as damaging for the behind the scenes guys and lobbiests. The real movers, shakers and money makers.

Lets face it cross dressing can be very expensive and can be quite intimidating. Might I suggest creating scolarships for makeovers and trips en femme for college age CD's who have an interest in experimenting with a political carrear REGARDLESS OF PARTY AFFILIATION and at any level. Local state, or federal, with the intent to infilitrate the system, and offering a network of business contacts for them, in case they were to be discovered and would need a financial safety net.

My .02 cents!

As stated, it is hard to place us in the minds of the people and it gets kind of confusing. Now if Oprah covers our community then mind could change if it is covered correctly.

I think part of our problem with society is that we have too much to loose! When you say you could loose your family and job if it's found out you are a CDr...that my friends is a large price to pay!

The gays and lesbeins didn't get recognized over night. It took decades and decades. Who among us has the fortitude to step out and say I'm a CDr and I feel good about it and here is what people like me do. We are not perverts, molesters, sexual deviates we are just men that prefers women's clothing. We feel we have a right to choose to dress the way we want. As does any other citizen of this world.

Things like that are going to have to happen over and over and over again until it is assimilated in to the consciousness of everyone that there is nothing to fear from us. We are normal just like everyone else. Who will our champion be?

They made it illegal to discriminate against gays in Illinois, but I still got discriminated at Pentair. 5 months into the contract to perm job they said they wanted to make me permanent but the buyout was expensive. Then they find out "I'm gay" [only crossdress] and then they restructure me out of my job. And if I sued I could be blacklisted, but my recruiter was good to me and I didn't want to offend him.

Now I look for jobs nationwide instead of the discriminatory ones in Chicago. Lost many jobs in Chicago when they found out, and I typically run into a low life factory worker who wants to bring me down with gay gossip. That's why my current NASA job is awesome! No factory workers here, and actually they have one employee who had a sex change to be female. Maybe Gov jobs are protected?

To answer the question in your last sentence, "who will our champion be?".

There is one and only one answer. If we are to make any progress it has to be "OURSELVES". We have to get the heck out of the closet and be proud of who we are and what we wear. Until then, we will not make much progress.

Also, we need to realize that most of the fear is in our own minds. Another thing is that if we loose any friends, then they were never real friends to begin with and we are much better off without them!!

:2c: Jamie

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Originally Posted by Vivian Best

I think part of our problem with society is that we have too much to loose! When you say you could loose your family and job if it's found out you are a CDr...that my friends is a large price to pay!

The gays and lesbeins didn't get recognized over night. It took decades and decades. Who among us has the fortitude to step out and say I'm a CDr and I feel good about it and here is what people like me do. We are not perverts, molesters, sexual deviates we are just men that prefers women's clothing. We feel we have a right to choose to dress the way we want. As does any other citizen of this world.

Things like that are going to have to happen over and over and over again until it is assimilated in to the consciousness of everyone that there is nothing to fear from us. We are normal just like everyone else. Who will our champion be?

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Reading about the anti-discrimination law that was passed back in 2001 here in Dallas, TX. I found that it was the GLB community that fought the hardest and loudest to get the T community included in the final draft of the law. If the Dallas T community had tried just on their own, it would not have happened. The GLB community is very good to us here in DFW.

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Originally Posted by victoriamwilliams1

Now if Oprah covers our community then mind could change if it is covered correctly.

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That's what I thought when she had the pregnant transman on, but all that did was stir up a hornet's nest of hatred with her viewers. :doh:

I see many of the obvious reasons have been raised and discussed, and I can't disagree with any of them. While we have benefited tremendously from the collective GLBT movement there's simply no way we can stay out of sight and hope someone else will fight for the kind of recognition and rights we deserve. We got a free ride this far at someone else's risk and while their sacrifice has brought us this far it's time to do our piece and not forget the debt of gratitude we owe.

Quite simply: more of us need to be out giving society a positive impression of what it means to be transgendered (feel free to pick your favorite term, just avoid the infighting over what exactly they mean and who gets to use what terms.) I've never felt the activist bug before in my life but I feel very strongly about this issue. I've gone from being afraid to really explore my own identity to being out in public in about two years, and I've started outing myself to more and more people I know. It was scary at first but I don't regret a single step so far. Ideally I'd like to be out at work though I'm not setting a timeline for taking that step just yet.

I think one of the challenges we face is that while many gay / lesbian couples had to out themselves to be in public together, TG/CDers face no such hurdles. In fact most of our SOs would probably see being outed as limiting their social opportunities, not expanding them ... and that's presuming your SO knows in the first place! So in this case I believe activism begins at home. If we can't find a way to talk to our partners and build acceptance there, how do we think we'll get society at large to do so?

All we have gained could be lost
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1286028

I guess there is a new thing for the list i made in my earlier post.

Now we have to fight to keep what we have gained. To keep the options of SRS and hormones.

We now may have to fight for our very feminity and masculinity.

My Tri-Ess chapter is doing thier part. We do out-reach at the local colleges, Police and Fire Departments on Transgendered issues. Also we can now get a Texas State ID card with our fem picture on it. Thus I can have my Texas DL with my drab picture and a seperate offcial ID card with my fem picture on it. Can come in handy when traveling en fem, going thru TSA at the airport, checking into a Hotel, entering a casino, and anywhere you need to show offical ID. Not bad price either, since I am 60. It would only cost me $5 and good for rest of my life.

with you. I have posted a similar thought here on the subject. I dream about a Utopia place where men can wear anything they want without being judged by society. I only have bought clothes from my VS catalogue lately and I have been questioned by friends: Is that a blouse? is that a ladies sweater? is that a female jeans? and they are atonished when I answered them: Yes it is!

I'm thinking that what could be really useful is a guide for crossdressers, how to make a difference.

From how to be safer when out, how to come out etc through to how to fight for progress.

My guess is that the average crossdresser is oblivious to many of the issues that effect them and their sisters/brothers nor how to do anything about it.

It could help build community, help make the lives of CDs easier and better and help build the strength and numbers of neccessary activism.

I agree with what you say in principle Batty but no one is really that altruistic. With mixed agendas and human emotions being what they are, it's very tough to get a group of people organized for a common goal and be totally agreeable on how to proceed. Believe me, I know.

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Originally Posted by Salandra

I agree with what you say in principle Batty but no one is really that altruistic. With mixed agendas and human emotions being what they are, it's very tough to get a group of people organized for a common goal and be totally agreeable on how to proceed. Believe me, I know.

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Those who hate transgender people manage to. Enough to make it hard for us to obtain our rights and tio ensure we keep having to protect them once we get them.

Plenty of people are altruistic (there's been some fascinating studies on it in behavioural psych circles). We may not be able to get everyone together but we might get enough.

There was an interesting article on the radio this morning that altruistic people are healthier, live longer and suffer less depression. Good enough reason as any for us to be more altruistic.

Besides, a lot of us are trauamatised and feel isolated because of the discrimination we have faced. Building ourselves into a more diverse and tolerant community is exactly part of the broader healing we need precisely because it's hard for us because of what we've bee through.

I have to say even thou we are not in the limelight of the newspaper, We have made a considerable push in the right direction. Look at the many bills that have been passed inregards to men wearing womans clothes. Look at all of the organizations that we belong too and how many there are and still growing. Also the establishments that have opened the doors to a great many Cross dressing organizations. My Tri Ess group here in New Jersey, we have a store that allows us to shop at a special time so that those who would like to keep their secret. We even have a Wig store that makes a special trip for us and allows us to shop in privacy and also helps us in picking out a style that will suit the person. We even have a church minister come and talk to us and also contacts have been made in hotel chains where we can have our meetings and dont forget our Fashion shows and junkets to places wher we can just be who we really are. There is a club in New York City called Lips which is not in a back room, its right out in the main frame and is on the internet if you would like to see for yourself that has great entertainment by of course some of the most talented CDMs I have ever seen. I guess this is my way of saying we have advanced and I am happy that we are not in the news as we are like everyone and the newspapers like to post the bad things which mean we are not bad. I am sorry if I became Long winded but we have traveled far on the venture of being accepeted. To All you Ladies here and to the founder of this website Thank You for bringing us closer to being reckonized. Love to All you Special Ladies and the supportive Spouses Joann0830 :battingeyelashes::heehee::love:

BTW read some of the posts here from Ladies who prove that we are going places from how to protect ourselves to the Best stores to shop.

Uuurgh...I dont know what to say or how to say it, so i am going to try my best. I am TS, and have known so for years. I am single, i am still in college, i am moving across the country specifically so i can avoid a lot of the issues many TS face, such as worry at work or while out, that someone will see you, discover you, and that your career/marriage/whatever will suffer as a result. I plan to attend school, get a job, get my driver's license, all as Terri. In one crescendo of action, i plan to at last, begin to resolve the pain and grief and angst i have felt for years.

And a lot of us do not have that option. While the life many TS have may not be the life they want, they have things to lose, and those things can well be jeopardized by unwanted publicity. The life they have may not be perfect, but the risk that they may take by striving for their goals may be worse than the rewards. It certainly shouldnt be that way, and unity, publicity, fair representation in the media, are all things we need to make changes happen. Unfortunately, doing this requires people to take risks that many dont want to take....so we have a vicious circle.

If given a chance, would i make my voice heard? I dont know....lets say that all goes as i hope it will, and that i, after going fulltime, or after SRS, have a career, a group of dear friends...a relationship? Would i risk all of that, once i attain it? I dont know. Its easy to say "yeah, i will stand up and fight" right now, because i have nothing to lose atm. In the same vein, if i do attain such a goal, i would want to do everything in my power to ensure other people have the same opportunity. What to DO?

We all know what the right thing to do is. Its just much scarier to do it, than it is to talk about it. We all have different levels of motivation, different drives. If anyone has any ideas, i am all ears.

Crossdressing for most is done in secret and most crossdressers live "normal" lives with the exception of having a strong desire to dress in female clothes.

Not many publically display this desire.

The only crossdressers that I see in public if they indeed are crossdressers are a small percentage of rockstars.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RockerTerri

If given a chance, would i make my voice heard? I dont know....lets say that all goes as i hope it will, and that i, after going fulltime, or after SRS, have a career, a group of dear friends...a relationship? Would i risk all of that, once i attain it? I dont know. Its easy to say "yeah, i will stand up and fight" right now, because i have nothing to lose atm. In the same vein, if i do attain such a goal, i would want to do everything in my power to ensure other people have the same opportunity. What to DO?

We all know what the right thing to do is. Its just much scarier to do it, than it is to talk about it. We all have different levels of motivation, different drives. If anyone has any ideas, i am all ears.

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Just as those of us completely in the closet there are still ways to help. Donating to advocate groups, signing petitions, everything a non-trans ally or closeted CD can do.

People being out helps, but if you feel you can't do that once you transition there are still ways to help others.. they call it 'going stealth' to leave your trans history behind, so be a women Ninja, a stealth warrior who fights for whats right in secret. :)

I have a copy of "How to be a Trans Ally". Don't remember where I got it from, but if anyone would like a copy, PM me with your email address and I will send you a copy.