Nicki:
Thanks--I stand corrected about use of the term "intersex." Maybe there just isn't a word for what I am!
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Nicki:
Thanks--I stand corrected about use of the term "intersex." Maybe there just isn't a word for what I am!
Again, I'm NOT defending Danam. But, Sarah, how do u know that Danam's wife ISN'T WITHHOLDING some of her feelings, etc., from him? Possibly contributing to his need to CD?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarah_GG
I agree with Satrana. On the surface, I don't feel that what Danam is doing is proper, but I'm withholding my judgement of him and his situation!
Because unless u know him and his SO intimately, how u can ANYONE correctly judge what is RITE for the two of them?
Having been thru the marriage, "tunnel of chaos", I KNOW how difficult it is to maintain a relationship, and LIVE with someone your whole life!:doh:
And I STILL maintain, if they have an arrangement that works for them, it's OK! Whether any of us think it's rite OR NOT!
Because if he loved her as much as he loves crossdressing, he wouldn't use the excuse of CD'ing stopping him from cheating. That's like me saying (if I were a CD of course), I'm going to eat a ham sandwich daily, because my love for them is so great, I'll never cheat on my partner :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally Posted by docrobbysherry
DocRobboSherryEh? But he knows her intimately and apparently understands her every thought process which is why he can't tell her about his CDing. And as for her withholding some of her feelings (which he infers she isn't) contributing to his CDing!!! That's a new theory on the subject... but one that I don't believe holds much water.Quote:
Again, I'm NOT defending Danam. But, Sarah, how do u know that Danam's wife ISN'T WITHHOLDING some of her feelings, etc., from him? Possibly contributing to his need to CD?
Perhaps he's worried that if he did tell her about his CDing she might consider being unfaithful to him?
And don't even get me started on the romance novels being pornography.
:straightface:
I don't believe I am cheating, After all my tells me I'm her best girl friend! If that's cheating then I'm guilty and loving it!
Dana, my opinion on that, or others here, doesn't really matter - it's what the woman who married you would think, that's critically important. And she might well see it as comparable to having an affair..Quote:
Originally Posted by danam
Honestly, if I were you, I really wouldn't be so blasé as you appear to be? :sad:
Quoted for being the blinding truth. :yt:Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamara Croft
I'm sorry, but what the original post here says, regardless of any excuses is that you want to cheat. That you're not satisfied with your wife. That's horrible. IMHO, if you truly love someone, you would never feel that urge to begin with. It really does sound like you care more about yourself than her, and that's no sort of love I've ever heard of.
My sympathy goes out to your wife.
In general I hate generalizations.Quote:
Originally Posted by danam
Change it to I GET TEMPTED at some point in my life. Whether or not I act on it...........
Now this is a true statement.
I thought this thread would bring out some deep issues and it appears to be doing just that. Dana... hang in there, there is support!
I have made a few "friends" here I and really don't don't want to lose you... so saying things and being open can be dangerous even in cyberspace! But I can understand where Dana is coming from, well at least in part...
My wife once said to me she would prefer me to be having an affair than CDing... discuss....
This is a complicated issue and if you look at the threads, there is a distinct difference of opinion between US and UK CDs, and GGs with Dana... but the GGs on this site are here because they accept.. or I should say "are accepting", sorry girls and I would love it if my wife was as well.
The US amongst us may say.. tell her it will all work out, and if it doesn't what the heck... loive your life.. go the mall... have fun...
I am sat in a shared services appartment in Chelmsford in the UK... dressed. FMBs, hold ups (thigh highs?), long skirt , no knickers.. feels great! I have just been out for a walk... brilliant... does my wife know?
No... but does she really know what I do when I go away for the night?
Of course she does...
Maybe being open will make it brilliant... but maybe it will wreck things, and I am really sorry if this offends but I know people in the UK who's families have been wrecked by this sort of disclosure.. kids in particular...
I personally think we have a moral responsibility here... sorry if I am on my own on this... Yeah I want to come out... but at the expense of my family...? Discuss
Sheila.. and all the GGs on this site... totally agree with you and understand were you are coming from... wish I'd met you in my 20s! :love:
Sorry if I have offended anyone... we all need constructive support... a lot of us are all in vulnerable positions and that is why we are here... destructive criticism is the easiest form of feedback... it is also the simplest way to destroy positive intention..
Kaz xx
Just trying to be the real me... whoever that might really be!
Woah... guess I've just lost all my friends!
Look at your wording, though. You sound genuinely concerned for the well being of others. How it will affect them. It's not the ops refusal to come out that's the issue here. Sure, it's not good to have secrets, but like you point out, there are other consequences to consider. But when the the consequences don't really have anything to do with it, then it just becomes an excuse. The underlying issue is the desire to cheat in the first place. It's the consequences of that that op is hiding from, and no amount of self gratification is going to fix that. Distract from it, sure, but never solve it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaz
I guess all I can say is that if I were in the op's wife's position, I'd prefer something to nothing. Fixing the relationship would be great, but if that's not possible, I'd rather get the pain over with sooner than later, and have more time to find someone who really does love me. No one should have to live in fear of their partner cheating... Of finding out too late that you never really loved them... Be fair to her.
My SO found out by hacking my e-mail account because she thought i was having an affair while i was away from home on business, instead of an affair with another GG she descovered i was having an affair with myself, the thrill is'nt bigger it's just different.Quote:
Originally Posted by docrobbysherry
We like to have romance WITH our men. Or femmes. :battingeyelashes:Quote:
Originally Posted by docrobbysherry
Edited to add:
While it is true that no one, not even the closest partner can meet all our needs, I still would not like to be in such a distant relationship where we each got our romantic or sexual needs met elsewhere. Even if the void was filled with other things than an affair, such as romance books, porn, or CDing ...... or religion, booze, food, gambling, shopping, workaholism, friends we are closer to than our SOs, hiding behind our children's needs, or a myriad other ways to not have an open, honest, loving, and intimate relationship.Quote:
Originally Posted by Satrana
I'm not sure that I really need anything to be faithful. I'm committed to my wife and that's all there is to it. I do think that CDing has brought us closer because our increased understanding for each other, but Tina is a part of me so I just can't work the analogies to "the other woman" or anything like it.
Maybe I need to give this more thought.
tina
Reading through all of the responses to danam's post, it is clear that she has had more than her fair share of detractors who took issue with her spin on what constitutes marital fidelity and how best to resist the temptation to stray. I find myself in fundamental agreement with her, but for reasons that she may have alluded to, but not addressed directly.Quote:
Originally Posted by danam
I too, have been totally faithful to my wife of 35+ years and have never once made an attempt to stray. Part of this is probably due to a strong character, a good moral upbringing, and a distinct sense of what is right and wrong. Cheating on a spouse is not an option for someone with those - dare I say it? - old-fashioned values in today's permissive society where just about anything goes, and people only seem to get religion and become contrite after they get caught with their hands in the cookie jar (Bill Clinton, to give a well-known example, and look how he's managed to rehabilitate his formerly sleazy image).
Underneath the bra, dresses, pantyhose, and heels, however, I am still a heterosexual man and like Jimmy Carter, have also lusted in my heart from time to time. But unlike "real" men, I have other options, and can sublimate my rutting instincts by deflecting them towards my crossdressing desires.
And if I read betweeen the lines of danam's original post, she, like myself, probably looks at an attractive woman on two levels - (1) "Wow, what a "hot" MILF that is!", and (2) " Wow, what a gorgeous dress (skirt, top, shoes, boots - whatever) she's wearing, and how I'd love to have one of those for my very own. I wonder how it/they would look on me?" As a crossdresser, I then focus on (2) as my primary object of desire, rather than directing my attention on how to get into the "hot babe's" pants for purposes other than wanting to wear them myself.
So bottom line, my value system prevents me from acting on my impulses, but before I pat myself too soundly on my back for being such an exemplary human being, the truth of the matter is that my crossdressing also helps considerably to blunt that temptation. That said, I am not about to take the moral high ground here and judge another's actions, as they may not have a similar filter to blunt their lust. They may therefore be less able to resist the temptation to succumb to their biological drives and actually end up pursuing that "hot babe" and in the process become unfaithful to their SO. The old "walk a mile in his shoes" adage applies here without doubt.
Still, the bottom line remains the same, and however you want to explain or rationalize it - for me at least, crossdressing acts as a safety valve to prevent me from straying in a physical sense.
Of course, that still leaves the unanswered question of whether or not indulging in our crossdressing "hobby" constitutes a kind of emotional infidelity. My wife has often said to me that it is not the crossdressing per se that bothers her so much, it is the fact that she sees "Leslie" as some kind of competitor for my attention, affection, and time - in short, a "mistress" of sorts. In fairness, I can't fault her for feeling the way she does, and the energy we devote to crossdressing - while it may be comparable to a workaholic who neglects his family in favor of his job or the wife who effectively becomes a "golf widow" - there is still a sexual/relational/emotional component attached to crosssdressing that does not come into the picture with other such obsessive pastimes.
I'm not sure if there is a clear answer as to whose needs trump whose in the kind of of situation that we crossdressers find ourselves when trying to integrate this "other woman" into our relationships with our less-than-supportive spouses or SO's. More than likely, we are doomed to continue with this juggling act until the day we die, and all we can do in the meantime is to perhaps be more acutely aware of our partners' needs than the average male and conduct ourselves accordingly to ensure that they always feel loved and cherished - and if for no other reason than to show gratitude for putting up with us in the first place:hugs:!
Thank you all for supporting this thread...you may not be supporting "me", but I am warm and content knowing that you find this dialog interesting.
One disclaimer (of sorts): I read the line about Romance novels being female porn in an article somewhere (so it is not an original thought) and I found it to be deliciously provocative and fascinating...and I couldn't resist the tempation to throw it out there. The fact that it elicits such a strong response means that it holds some truth. As I said before, if it was complete nonsense, it would have been ignored!
And I am also happy that the conversation has gone back to the rational side. I have to disregard comments that attack me and my relationship personally, because I haven't provided enough information about my personal situation for anyone to make a really accurate judgement. In fact, the insults are quite revealing about the person doing the talking, because they are based on assumptions, which in turn reveal much about the perspectives and experiences of that person. No, I'm not a psychologist (but I can spell it!).
And for those that think it is "sad" that I am hiding this truth from my wife...well, that is why I am here on this forum, and that is why there is such a strong interest in this thread. Lots of others are in this situation. We know it is sad. We know it is wrong. So we are trying to deal with it. So don't throw out self-righteous comments about you think I am doing something terrible. I know it. I am here (and a hundred or thousand or more others just like me) for help and support. Drop the inflammatory tone and realize that people come here for advice and support, not to be yelled at.
And thank you again for those who support this discussion in its intended spirit.
Dana, it took a lot of courage to come here and honestly describe your situation and your beliefs. I'm glad you brought the topic up. It did spark an interesting discussion. Many of us do come here to work through our issues, and I believe we all stand to learn something from these threads. :)
:hugs:
now that makes no sense ........ we cannot choose to ignore nonsense that portrays inaccurate assumptions about things, we do so at our peril, lest they become deemed to be accepted as the "norm" through lack of challanging what we hold as our belief .. bit like should we continue to stay silent when people say "ALL CDRs are Perverts" ........... would/could you allow that to go unchallenged as a truth? ..... I know I couldn't, but then again my view may be wrong, but unless somebody can prove to me otherwise I will continue to believe that most CDRs are "normal" people ... care to challenge me on that one Sweetie?:DQuote:
Originally Posted by danam
A good discussion will always elicit strong viewpoints ............ not all will agree with yours, & if you you are wanting a view that completely agrees with yours you should have asked for those types of reponses only in the thread .......Quote:
Originally Posted by danam
Again had there been no truth in the statments that you found to attck you and your relationship you would have ignored them (again your words not mine Sweetie) ;:DQuote:
Originally Posted by danam
:DQuote:
Originally Posted by danam
We cannot be held rersponsible for the fact that you now feel you have not provided us with enough information to make reasonable "judgement " (how I hate that word) of your situation, .......... (personally I responded to the facts as they were presented :D if you view that as a judgement & an inaccurate one then sorry but there is nothing i can do about that) and if we are guilty of coming to the wrong conclusions then perhaps you will be more accurate about the information you give us to enable us to make more accurate assumptions in the future:DQuote:
Originally Posted by danam
Again if you had wanted only points of view agreeing with what you are doing you should have said so from the get go ....... just because others GG & CDR's disagree with your point of view does not make them "self-righteous comments " ...... we are as entitled to our opinions as you are ....... please read the support statement at the top of EVERY pageQuote:
Originally Posted by danam
*** The #1 Community for Crossdressers, the Transgendered, Transsexuals,[SIZE="4"] their Loved Ones and Friends
[/SIZE]*** ...... I and many others here, come under the section I increased in size & support is not always about hearing what we want to hear, sometimes it involves hearing what we need to hear, rather than want ............. please I said SOMETIMES
A quote I find particulary apt for the cding forums I use
Andre Gide:
Everything has been said before, but since nobody listens we have to keep going back and beginning all over again
many come here seeking validation for their own viewpoints rather than seeking to reach new leverls of acceptance within themselves and their relationships :sad:
now that view I do find sad ....... & surprise, surprise I find it heartbreaking that you should feel that way about CDing, I certainly don't find CDing sad nor wrong, I don't think you are doing anything terrible if you are cding, what I find terrible is, some of the reasons you use to justifiy not telling your partners **** (you not to be taken personally ) ***Quote:
Originally Posted by danam
I think what some are trying to say is that it is not so much of the fact you keep your Cding a secret from your wife, as in some instances this may be the safest thing to do for many reasons, but the fact that you seam to be using the Cding as a good excuse not to have an affair with someone which makes it sound like if you were not Cding you would be having affairs because that is the normal thing for people to do at some point in a relationship .
Sadly i would agree to a certain extent that it happens far more than it should (and that has a lot to do with the Internet) but that does not mean that everyone is wired that way .
I know that the written word can be miss read as the reader will interpret into the way they think you are putting it and this can lead to misunderstandings some times .
I think we can all agree that open, loving intimate relationships are the goal we should all aim for. But I am too much of a grumpy pragmatic to believe this is what happens in reality. Large numbers of people settle for relationships which come nowhere close to these ideals but these arrangements work for them and they are happy to let things be. It lets them survive the tribulations of life.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
People talk about the pursuit of happiness and yet it is clear many people are more interested in the pursuit of stability and conformity. I have seen many comments from GGs over the years who stated that they would rather their SO had never informed them of the CDing as they would have been happier remaining blissfully unaware. You can argue this is the wrong approach to life but that is how people actually think and behave and their wishes should be respected.
What gets me about this thread is that it is way too judgmental. There are people who believe that any woman who chooses to love and support a CD is sacrificing her own happiness and would feel pity for the wife.
How do you feel to know others pity you because they feel you are living with a partner who cannot love you properly?
There are many rocks being thrown around in this glasshouse, lots of personal condemnations of Dana based on zero knowledge of how their relationship works.
PS. this is not directed at Reine since she is not throwing rocks!
.Quote:
I have seen many comments from GGs over the years who stated that they would rather their SO had never informed them of the CDing as they would have been happier remaining blissfully unaware
On the whole I'd have to disagree. Those views are far outnumbered by supportive SOs.
Are you talking about on this forum? I certainly don't feel pitied. I feel supported by CDers and their SOs. CDing has never stopped my SO from loving me "properly".Quote:
What gets me about this thread is that it is way too judgmental. There are people who believe that any woman who chooses to love and support a CD is sacrificing her own happiness and would feel pity for the wife.
How do you feel to know others pity you because they feel you are living with a partner who cannot love you properly?
I think the general discussion has been around the fact that the OP said that CDing kept him from straying. Some other forum members just questioned whether this was really what was meant and why. Lots of interesting points have been made on both sides.
:)
It is actually an old debate which goes all the way back to Victorian times when society feared women's minds would become corrupted. Mind you the Victorians thought seeing a woman in her undergarments would corrupt men's minds too.Quote:
Originally Posted by danam
On many levels it does produce the same quandaries - such as unrealistic expectations of what to expect from relationships and the behavior of your partner and as well unrealistic expectations of sex itself. It idealizes and packages men in the same way pornography packages women. Page and page of detailed sex scenes is clearly pornographic but when wrapped up in a love story it escapes society's censor. Anyway that is another topic altogether.
Condemnation is more fun!:hugs:Quote:
Drop the inflammatory tone and realize that people come here for advice and support, not to be yelled at.
The post is about cd'ing and how it stops you from cheating on your wife,yes?
Ok, heres how simple it is.CD'ing or any other, need, urge,hobby, desire,is completley irrelevant to the urge for cheating.
Your post was insinuating that all have at some stage the urge to cheat. ...And that CD'ing has been a deterrant for you not to cheat on your wife.
No, i dont know how your relationship is, be it good or bad, and, Yes,it is your choice to wether you tell your wife that you CD,rather than hide and possibly lie to her about what your doing.
Is reading romance novels stopping me from cheating on my partner?? erm? no.i dont have the urge to cheat, and if i did i would either be talking to him about it as obviously there is problem, or if all fails, end the relationship.i wouldnt be using a vent to not cheat..
Why compare CDing to not cheating?
In one sense your post i feel shouldnt be given so much attention, as to me you have tarred all men with same brush, insinuating that all have the urge to cheat,and
2) CD'ing is a deterrant.And in another sense im glad your post is getting read,as with everyones replies and opinions,as hopefuly even ,just one other person reading this that has the selfish 'all about me' attitude that you do, realises cheating is cheating, simple as.And CD'ing is completely irrelevant to it. loren:hugs:
Relationships,, TRUST,HONESTY,and ofcourse RESPECT, vital ingredients.
I like that Satrana goes deeper into what CAUSES problems in marriages! Because THAT is the TRU ISSUE in this thread! NOT the smoke screens and flack so many r spewing here!Quote:
Originally Posted by Satrana
U can simplistically argue that if every person was "honest", "faithful", "caring", and "devoted" to their partner, their marriages would succeed! Which is patent nonsense! Humans, by nature, r WAY TOO complicated, selfish, and self deluding to be capable of those traits, in MANY CASES! ( NOT all, thankfully).
If I sound cynical, it's NOT because of my failed marriage. Which had NOTHING to do with CDing, OR cheating!
It's because in SoCal, where I live, over 50% of marriages fail! And that doesn't count the many couples to stay together unhappily. Because of "the children", or financial reasons, or just don't want to deal with the hassles of divorce! Face it, living with someone your entire life in today's world, CAN BE DIFFICULT!:doh:
Many of those unhappy souls have affairs, CD, drink too much, and/or get involved in diversions that take them away from their unloved SO.
Since some of u, judging from many of the posts I've read, r in marriages like that, what is so SURPRISING about any of this?:brolleyes:
And if u youngsters idealistically think you're going to get married, and live "happily ever after", good luck! It may happen in 10% to 20% of marriages, if that! Just realize what the odds r, and take a HARD look at yourself and SO, before u leap into that chasm!
My CDing has not kept me faithful. My commitment to my wife has. BUT, my CDing MAY have reduced some temptations. Can I honestly say I would have been faithful without my CDing? No, because that is outside of my experience. i have crossdressred through my entire marriage. It is POSSIBLE I would have strayed without my "distraction."
I know my wife too. I personnally feel she would have preferred an affair rather than me crossdressing. She would know how to handle it. She would have divorced me. She has threatened to divorce me if she ever catches me crossdressing again. She never actually caught me before. She found the stash. she ASSUMED I was having an affair.
Keeping your cding from your wife is simply lying by omission. When I was confronted by my wife about finding some clothing that wasn't hers I finally ginned up the courage to tell her not only whose clothing it was, but that I had been cding ever since I was 12 years old. What infuriated her the most and damn near ended a 20 year marriage was not telling her from the very start of our relationship. She was 100% right and fortunately with the help of a great counselor and alot of long honest talks we have been able to move past my deceit and actually deepened and strengthened our marriage. Trust me with all that we have been through along with all that she knows and understands about my female second self, infidelity is simply not an option I would consider for one second. Women like her who can accept, encourage and enjoy this part of their husband's personality are extremely rare. Why would I jeopardize that by cheating on her?
So I guess in a way cding keeps me from straying but truth be told I don't want to risk this marriage for some frivolous fling with the office hottie because we've been through so much together that the thought of not being her significant other is inconceivable. Ergo, I am totally faithful and better off for it.