The TRUTH about CDs being "passable"!

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Originally Posted by kinkedamanda

Now as you say, the voice DOES tell a tale. That said this is one area as CD's , we just let ourselves down.Because female voice an mannerisms are attainable, and there's many how to's on the net, all of which say practice makes perfect.We could pass on voice, but for 99% of us, we choose not to.

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This sort of statement leads a little bit, though not all the way, down the road of a big part of what bugs me with passing. You're talking specifically about voices here, but I've seen similar comments about breast and hip forms, or makeup styles, or wigs, and such that basically say "well, you could pass but you just don't work hard enough." (NOTE: I know that isn't what Amanda is really saying here, I'm just using her statement as a jumping off point.)

The reason it bothers me is, yes maybe we choose not to, because I don't see why I should *have* to. I don't see why I should have to spend a bunch of time learning how to change my voice and adopt mannerisms that don't come naturally to me. I wear women's clothes because I like them and find them comfortable and I resent the attitude that I should have to do things I don't find comfortable in order to wear them.

Now, if someone *wants* to pass, and that's their motivation for dressing, then that's fantastic for them and I support them all the way. But there's a mentality amongst some that feels the need to tell other crossdressers that they're "doing it wrong" if the goal isn't to avoid being read and be convincingly "passable."

I hate the way "passing" gets such emphasis in the community. It's basically the tgirl version of "skinny" being pushed onto teenage girls, who then feel like they have to push themselves into this narrow, unrealistic vision of what a "beautiful woman" is based on what they see from models and actresses.

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Originally Posted by JiveTurkeyOnRye

This sort of statement leads a little bit, though not all the way, down the road of a big part of what bugs me with passing. You're talking specifically about voices here, but I've seen similar comments about breast and hip forms, or makeup styles, or wigs, and such that basically say "well, you could pass but you just don't work hard enough." (NOTE: I know that isn't what Amanda is really saying here, I'm just using her statement as a jumping off point.)

The reason it bothers me is, yes maybe we choose not to, because I don't see why I should *have* to. I don't see why I should have to spend a bunch of time learning how to change my voice and adopt mannerisms that don't come naturally to me. I wear women's clothes because I like them and find them comfortable and I resent the attitude that I should have to do things I don't find comfortable in order to wear them.

Now, if someone *wants* to pass, and that's their motivation for dressing, then that's fantastic for them and I support them all the way. But there's a mentality amongst some that feels the need to tell other crossdressers that they're "doing it wrong" if the goal isn't to avoid being read and be convincingly "passable."

I hate the way "passing" gets such emphasis in the community. It's basically the tgirl version of "skinny" being pushed onto teenage girls, who then feel like they have to push themselves into this narrow, unrealistic vision of what a "beautiful woman" is based on what they see from models and actresses.

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Why do you have to drag t girls into the picture,plenty of cross dressers would like to pass and give advice.:heehee:

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Originally Posted by JiveTurkeyOnRye

It's basically the tgirl version of "skinny" being pushed onto teenage girls, who then feel like they have to push themselves into this narrow, unrealistic vision of what a "beautiful woman" is based on what they see from models and actresses.

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I agree. I really wish people would move on from the unrealistic ideal of passing and just learn to be themselves. There is no right or wrong way to speak or move so just be yourself and be happy and confident. Chasing idealism can become an unhealthy compulsion and you will never reach the level of perfection that will satisfy yourself.

Just seems a pointless exercise to me. Instead of enjoying your self-expression you are instead focused on a project to create the perfect imitation. Why not accept your transgenderism for what it is?

I have to agree with Doc on this. I have been to several SCC's and usually get down there on the first sunday or monday. When I arrive I am very much in boy mode as that is who I am most of the time. I come to visit with friends and have fun as I do to dress so many times I do not dress until wed or thurs. I have gone to the mall and sat and watched. We are easy to pick out of a crowd for the most part and we are noticed. Most people give us a glance or two, maybe give a nudge to who ever they are with but would never walk up and say anything. Just because you don't hear anything doesn't mean you went un noticed or that you passed.

All the confidence in the world will not help you pass. It gives you the ability to not care. I know I will not pass..ever, but I really don't care. I am who I am and it doesn't bother me that there may be some that don't accept that. That doesn't mean I don't try to look my best when I go out. I always try to dress to blend, not so much to try and pass as to not give us a bad name or feed into any misconstrued myth. Nothing worse than seeing a cder in the mall in a vinyl maids outfit and 6" heels (yes I have really seen this).

Most people do notice us but just don't care. When I am read I want people to think "wow..that is a crossdresser" and have it meant in a positive way.

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Originally Posted by kellycan27

Why do you have to drag t girls into the picture,plenty of cross dressers would like to pass and give advice.:heehee:

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Sorry, this is probably just a matter of various websites and their differently accepted slang terms. On some other sites I've been on "Tgirl" doesn't mean specifically TS's, it's just a "cute" shorthand term term that some prefer to "crossdresser," "transgender" or "transvestite." I didn't mean to single out any one group.

from the very beginning, trying moms satin front girdle when I was thirteen,
passing has never crossed my mind.but I always try as hard as I can to be
pretty, smell pretty, walk ladylike, be polite, have pantyhose on, wear a
dress, have my makeup done, laugh out loud, and always be focused on
my behaviour.I went to a regular bar last saturday that has a mostly
young, black clientel.one out of every three girls there was fat or rude
with circus like outfits on...it was horrible.But when I go to the local
cd club (ime in detroit) everyone is polite and friendly and all the cds
are dressed to the nines.....whats going on............dana.

Well, I did get invited to post a still photograph in the flickr "Females with Cameras" group
http://www.flickr.com/photos/12310574@N05/4060826911/
but in person there is no way I will ever pass. Even if I transitioned, who would perform surgery to spread my eyes & hips and narrow my shoulders? Inconceivable.

But handlebar, skirt & heels wandering the mall or browsing in galleries or sitting in restaurants? I always get treated like a paying customer; i.e., with polite enthusiasm. Well, once or twice I've been turned away from ladies dressing rooms in stores, but even that is rare.

Apparently a lot of the world is perfectly happy to deal with an eccentric stranger. Am I ready to sort my friends into those who do and don't tolerate gender confusion? Not so sure...

I've NEVER understood folks here when they say they feel more COMFORTABLE in ladies things. As u did. I find ladies things to be;
tite, usually pretty warm, restricting, titillating, stimulating, erotic, and arousing. Which r all reasons I DO wear ladies gear! :D But, NEVER for comfort! Nothing beats my drab, loose undies, jeans, open shirt, and loafers for that! :)

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Originally Posted by JiveTurkeyOnRye

I wear women's clothes because I like them and find them comfortable and I resent the attitude that I should have to do things I don't find comfortable in order to wear them.

I hate the way "passing" gets such emphasis in the community. It's basically the tgirl version of "skinny" being pushed onto teenage girls, who then feel like they have to push themselves into this narrow, unrealistic vision of what a "beautiful woman" is based on what they see from models and actresses.

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Other than that, I quite agree with what you're saying! That passing requires a great deal of compromise in our dressing look! To PASS, most feel they must dress to BLEND! Maybe NOT at all how they would LIKE to present if they could dress ANY WAY they wanted to when they went out! If they could, without getting arrested, assaulted, or insulted!:Angry3:

And u and I have something in common in our dressing! In that neither of us cares to PASS, or compromise! U wear only a skirt, and go out that way! :thumbsup:

I dress like a drag queen. But, I CAN'T go out dressed that way! Because I WON'T PASS!:sad:

It's NOT fair, but few things in life r!:brolleyes:

As with everything within the cd, tg, ts, etc. world, this thing can be sliced a lot of ways. The only thing that seems to provide commanality is that we all choose to express some aspect of our personalities through wearing women's clothes.

For some, (although I don't undertand it, so I'm speculating here) it appears that the desired expression is that of an eccentric, and women's clothes are the vehicle that provides that outlet. For some others, because our basic physical characteristics are not chosen, passing is out of the question, yet the desire to appear feminine is as great as anyones. I can relate to this because outside of my fem self I've often wished for a more masculine body, face, size, etc.. There's just nothing I could do about it. For my fem personna that's great. Other parts of my life, not so much. Gym class was not much fun for me. I would have never thought that any of those really masculine guys would've been envious of little girly me!

For me, the whole passing thing comes down to who I want to see in the mirror, and how thoroughly that expresses who I am, or want to be. Passing, as far as it is attainable, is important to me. I do not want to be seen as eccentric, although some of that is inevitable, given the circumstances. I care very much about what other people think of me. I'm well aware of my shortcomings, but I try my damnedest to present myself as a woman that I find attractive. That's a tall order, and unachievable on many levels. But on many levels it is achievable. It's a lot of damn work. It's a lot of work for a real woman to pull this off,and I'm starting off from behind the 8 ball. Still that's what I choose to do. It's where I choose to expend a lot of energy, time, and money. As much as it's about the clothes, it's more that just clothes. To me, there's a particular way that I, as the woman I want to be at these times, conducts herself. The way she realtes to people. Her mannerisms. It's a full feminine expression that I try so hard to achieve. Simply pulling on a skirt just doesn't do it for me.

It's a hell of a balancing act to retain enough masculinity to be able to interact publicly as a male, yet still be able to at times be able to interact publicly in such a feminine way as to make that, too, a satisfying experience. It's a wavy line that changes with what's going on im my life at the time. There's just no way that I can be satisfied with both sides at the same time. Right now I'm trying to find that exact point where I'm masculine enough to be comfortable dating a woman, yet feminine enough to (temporarily) become one.

Glad the t-girl thing was sorted quickly cos that's what I am.

I am getting better and better and passing but I can't fool all the people all of the time and never think I will be able to even if I go full time (but remember I'm a t-girl for now).

But I don't care about passing. Its not about that its about being myself. Whisper it, but sometimes I love the comments and dress provocatively to attract them.

What I am doing is having more fun and enjoyment then I ever believed possible. The waves of contentment that come through me when I am out and about, knowing that after all these years I'm showing true self, my inner self are fantastic. The pride and steel within me has to be seen to be believed.

But I'm for real!

Life's fun out there, live it and don't worry about others.

Think I'd best lurk now

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Originally Posted by jiveturkeyonrye

i think it does nothing but make people insecure about how they look and also pushes the notion that crossdressers are trying to trick people.

***** instead, just do your best to be the best looking, most confident crossdresser you can be.

I'm saying, instead of stressing yourself out by making passing convincingly the goal, find out the look that actually is best for your body type, do the makeup that actually accentuates your natural features rather than trying to hide them by disguising yourself.

The more of us that go out and confidently show ourselves to be crossdressers, the more publicly accepted we'll be because people will see is in a much more positive light.

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well said!!

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Originally Posted by Katesback

God I hate that P word.

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yeah yeah we know

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Originally Posted by Satrana

I agree. I really wish people would move on from the unrealistic ideal of passing and just learn to be themselves. There is no right or wrong way to speak or move so just be yourself and be happy and confident. Chasing idealism can become an unhealthy compulsion and you will never reach the level of perfection that will satisfy yourself.

Just seems a pointless exercise to me. Instead of enjoying your self-expression you are instead focused on a project to create the perfect imitation. Why not accept your transgenderism for what it is?

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Passing for me is not about achieving a super model look, it's about just being able to go about my daily life without being a curiosity? Do I care what other people think? NO. Do I care if people know that I am a TS? No. Would it be nice to just be able be regarded as just another person? Yes.

DocRobbieSherry, the passable one was me, right?!

Just kidding, I know that I'm not passable. I enjoy the thrill of dressing up and make-up for many of the same reasons that you do. But like you said, comfort means loose jeans and a t-shirt. I'm likely passable at a distance, but if you don't figure it out when you get close you will as soon as I open my mouth. I don't have female mannerisms, though to some extent I'm working on that. I definitely don't have a passable voice and don't care. At one point I did try, but I sounded a lot more like Minnie Mouse than a woman.

I'm new to dressing in public and because of where and I live and the circles that I run in I do not dress where I live, but at places like SCC it's just too much fun to ever pass up. I can hardly wait until next year; I already have my gown for the formal night.:daydreaming:

[SIZE="3"]I thought this thread was going in a different direction but it hasn't. So I'll move that way a little. It has always bothered me with the responses to the "Hot or Not" threads. I mean... as the original poster said, very few REALLY pass but the comments in those threads suggest otherwise.

Lacy PJs[/SIZE]

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Originally Posted by docrobbysherry

I've NEVER understood folks here when they say they feel more COMFORTABLE in ladies things. As u did. I find ladies things to be;
tite, usually pretty warm, restricting, titillating, stimulating, erotic, and arousing.

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Comfortable has several meanings for people here but both apply to me. When I'm not dressing for the clubs with corset and revealing clothing I do find them quite comfortable. The materials and the fit can be amazing compared to the poor male clothing I usually wear!

And yes, many that people consider CD's also go by the T-girl lable. I tend to use it more for girls who go out and about but that's just me. I like it because it's a friendly sounding name and carries positive conotations.

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Originally Posted by Lacy PJs

[SIZE="3"]I thought this thread was going in a different direction but it hasn't. So I'll move that way a little. It has always bothered me with the responses to the "Hot or Not" threads. I mean... as the original poster said, very few REALLY pass but the comments in those threads suggest otherwise.

Lacy PJs[/SIZE]

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Other crossdressing communities I go to have a vulgar cutthroat tone to them. Only about 1 in 20 of those that have the courage to post are actually considered by the userbase to pass. Passing in these communities is defined as being completely indistinguishable from a genetic girl. Very few of those that pass are considered hot.

On the other hand, this community's tone is more of love. It doesn't matter who one is or where they're from, one can be accepted here. As a result, everyone here can forget about the details, just have fun, and share the love.

I don't believe either of these are inherently good or bad, as each serve their own purpose.

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Originally Posted by Lacy PJs

[SIZE="3"]I thought this thread was going in a different direction but it hasn't. So I'll move that way a little. It has always bothered me with the responses to the "Hot or Not" threads. I mean... as the original poster said, very few REALLY pass but the comments in those threads suggest otherwise.
Lacy PJs[/SIZE]

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I was referring to PASSING out in public, NOT in pictures! That's like apples and oranges! I have posted pictures in which I look pretty fem! Sometimes that's the flattering one I selected out of a hundred I took, tho! :D
And many others here have terrific pics, too! But, in REAL LIFE, I can't even come close to passing!:sad:

Unless it's driving by, in the middle of the nite, at the North Pole!:brolleyes: