Is it a fetish? Can it be cured?

My statement concerning the 12 step programs was based on knowledge I have acquired about them. I have only heard that these things take place near churches, usually church group do them. I have heard that several of the people drop out, or some become "jesus freaks". Your saying "spiritual- not religious - nature" is honestly new to me. I have not heard of them as being spiritual, but in fact quite religious.

It may just be the area I am in, and of the ones I have heard of.

anyway, have you ever heard of a 12 step program for linking certain fabrics and styles?

Well, I might as well add to this thread too. My wife knew about my dressing long before we got married, back when we both thought it was a "fetish". I too thought that it would go away once I was married, but it kept resurfacing and I kept it hidden. I finally told her and we went to councelling to save our marriage. We went through a few therapists until we found one that knew what she was doing. That, is where my advice to you comes... first, you need to find one you BOTH are comfortable with. Second, I think it is important that it is a woman therapist. Your wife will trust what a woman says over a man, especially at this time. That is what saved my marriage. We are still figuring out boundaries and getting used to who I really am, and that it is NOT a fetish that can go away. Just a thought...

I see some similarities in what I have gone through and what you have gone through. So I thought I would share. I too started cd'ing at a young age. I am 37 now, married 11 yrs and have 2 children. I recently came out to my wife about 6 months ago. It was terrifying and liberating at the same time. To my surprise my wife's biggest issue was that I was living in darkness for so long. Many of her emotional breakdowns were because she felt bad that I had to deal with this all alone for so long. However, it did take weeks b4 we were able to get a handle on what was happening with everything.

Something that helped my wife that you may want to suggest to your wife is to read some books, such as "My Husband Wears my Clothes" and "Crossdressing with Dignity." It has helped both my wife and I understand better what we are dealing with. The author Peggy ? I believe is a bonified expert on the subject. She has done a lot of research.

We are a middle class family in the Chicago Suburbs. We have no agenda related to Cd'ing except to live happily together and raise our children the best that we can. When I mentioned your troubles to my wife she immediately offered to communicate with your wife via email if she needed someone to talk to that has/is going through a similar situation. I also think that she can get some good feedback and information here. Good luck.

See, the term "fetish," in a clinical sense, has a very specific definition, i.e., an object that causes sexual arousal, usually (and this is the key part) to the point that the person in unable to become aroused unless that particular object is involved. Obviously, this can be problematic if one's sexual partner isn't into the same thing, which is why people talk about treating fetishes. Transvestic fetishism certainly exists, but is only one of a very large number of known fetishes. If the above definition sounds like you, then yeah, you have a fetish......but based on what you wrote in your other post, that wouldn't be my armchair diagnosis (disclaimer: I'm a radiologist, not a psychiatrist. :))

Can a fetish be cured? It depends on what you mean by "cured." If a person has a fetish for pantyhose, or stiletto heels, or banana cream pies, or whatever, then there's probably no treatment that's going to cause them to stop being aroused by such things. What treatment can do (at least theoretically) is weaken the association between the object and arousal, so that one can become aroused in the absence of the fetish object.

It is really not possible for me (or anyone else on the forum) to diagnose your condition (unless there are individuals with professional training and experience, and unless we have more information). We can give you moral support, as several have already done.
As far as advice goes, you've also received quite a bit of that too. I would share the view that you need to consult a professional who has experience, knowledge, and training with gender issues. The "fetish/cured" ideas smack of old beliefs and approaches to gender issues, especially the "cured" part. There is a load of evidence that suggests that genderism is not a "curable" condition but an inherently genetic manifestation. Other factors also influence ones development--environment, opportunity, etc. So take heart and seek additional professional counsel.

Samantha, I went back and read your other posting about being screwed because your wife found out about your cross-dressing. Now, I really think you're screwed. Your wife has now been told by a therapist that you can be 'cured.' This person is stating that you have an addiction that is curable. What's your wife going to do, if you are not cured? What are you going to do, if you are not 'cured.'? Hide everything and play along? If you ask your wife for a second opinion, are you screwed? Are you and her going to shop around like in TV court shows and line up therapists to support viewpoints? I started having interests in woman's clothing before I knew sex existed. I still do not know why? I can only guess? But, that was 55 Plus years ago. The only time I can truthfully say I had no yearning, desire, interest in cross-dressing was when I was in the military. Cross-dressing resurfaced when I was exposed to my beautiful wife, who I loved to adorn in lovely lingerie and well, get screwed in a way different than your previous posting.

Cross-dressing like any other activity can be a legitimate source of problems in a marriage. If somebody is spending all their free time on a 'hobby' and ignoring a spouse or performing household chores, raking the leaves, etc, then cross-dressing activity may NOT be healthy for the marriage. It is no different than going hunting every weekend or restoring a vintage car.

If a cross-dresser is draining the household funds buying feminine clothes, well, it's like restoring a car.

This therapist has condemned you to a hellish marriage, if your wife is now convinced your a deviant, etc. Now the question is what about your feelings? Are you going to stuff them in a box and put them on the top shelf of the closet and live in agony? If your wife will not let you have your cross-dressing time and you both establish some acceptable rules, then you will be living in hell. The therapist sounds like the same type of therapist who claims he can get the homosexuality out of gays and lesbians.

You need to find out if there is a level of acceptance or tolerance your wife will allow. If she is going to shove it in your face all the time, I'd consider getting out of the relationship. That would be mental abuse. Are you willing to endure decades more mental abuse?

My wife does not like my cross-dressing. I do not shove it in her face. It is DADT which is fine with me. In fact, the day before yesterday I was on this site in feminine clothing and somehow a pair of nylon white panties ended up under the computer table. She found them when she went to use the computer. She did not rant and rave. She tossed them into the hallway- no screaming or yelling. Whoops on my part.

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Originally Posted by Samantha X

The therapist was 100% convinced that I have a satin/pantyhose fetish. He descibed it as no more than a sexual addiction. He says it is curable. He descibed using a 12 step program a lot like AA that he thinks would cure me. But he definitely told me that it is a sexual deviance. So how am I supposed to react to this? Is it a fetish, and can it be cured?

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So this "the-rapist" is 100% convinced you have a problem? Just what is his take on normal? Pulling fish out of the water with a stick while drunk? Going fast enough on two wheels to guarantee certain death? What if your shirt buttons were on the wrong side? Pervert! Work things out with your wife and if CD is non-negotiable, then stop. Marriage is compromise and that's all there is to it. Or you could just continue to give a lot of money to a trained monkey. I've so been through this farce.

Crossdressing, fetish based or not, was never a problem for Samantha nor did it interfere with family responsibilities (see other Sam posts). The wife is the one with the problem with it. Her intolerance with a crossdressing husband is the issue. Maybe the therapist can cure her of this disease. What? It's not a disease? It can't be cured? There's no 12-step program for this?

Wow. Maybe he can cure me of liking some films like The Truman Show, or my love of playing and writing piano music... I love wearing lingerie too - I'm not sure I can differientiate this from just liking porn or spag bol. Sry but I would consider a cure MAY be needed when something is so wrong in you (physically or mentally) that it threatens your ability to function as a human in everyday life. I appreciate that guilt, stress etc could be included in this, but I only feel guilty and stressed because it may cause discomfort to my family because they may not understand or they probably have the same view society has. I have a fetish - im pretty sure. I dont think any amount of therapy would give any alternative that gives me a bigger kick :). OK, im talking too much - Ill just say this - I think your therapist sounds pretty weak.

J

Pythos, as one who attended many 12 step meetings, but hasn't in years I can tell you that many meetings are held in churches, but not affiliated with the church itself. The program has a spiritual, not religious base to it. Many people do drop out, the percentage of people who recover from drug and alcohol addiction is very low, in the single digits. My experience has been that folks who drop out tend to give excuses/reasons why, and the spiritual nature of the program which can be easily confused or misconstrued as religious is one of the top reasons. There are people who become "Jesus freaks", but a small percentage. There are people who become "Jesus freaks" in all walks of life. It sounds like your opinion is based on information from people who quit/dropped out/were exposed to zealous people who threw religion in their face....I can tell you many of my best friendships in life are people I met in 12 step meetings living sober, productive, lives. Thought you may like to hear from someone who had a positive experience.

As far as Samantha goes, I would think if he has any bit of self awareness that identifying whether it's a fetish would be relatively easy.

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Originally Posted by NicoleScott

The wife is the one with the problem with it. Her intolerance with a crossdressing husband is the issue. Maybe the therapist can cure her of this disease. What? It's not a disease? It can't be cured? There's no 12-step program for this?

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Well, there are 12 Step programs for sexual compulsions, but I agree with you this is likely not Samantha's issue. She needs to find a therapist who is familiar with gender issues. As to the wife being intolerant ... we've gone through all of this in the other thread. Keep in mind we only do hear one side of the story here, plus, the wife is on a learning curve with this just as much as Samantha was earlier on when she asked herself the same questions that her wife is asking now:

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Originally Posted by Samantha X

I shared my internal struggle to figure out who or what I was during those hard teenage years. How I’d heard repeatedly that only perverts and homos engaged in such a disgusting behavior. And how if I liked dressing in women’s clothes then I must be gay or want to become a woman.

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If Samantha was allowed to question herself and it took some time to reach a level of self-acceptance, surely her wife should be given the same consideration? They were both raised in the same society, with the same bias against the CDing. They are seeking help with a third party with this, which to me is an indication they are both interested in saving their marriage.

Give the wife a break, already, and let's just focus on helping Samantha.

Hey Salina, that is really awesome to hear. Yes my view on 12 steps was kinda biased, and illinformed, or at least informed of one aspect.

Thank you for putting down your experience. I am sure the people I know of had an overzealous individual (s).

I believe that these are the official diagnostic definitions of fethishism and transvestic fethisism

Diagnostic criteria for 302.81 Fetishism

A. Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving the use of nonliving objects (e.g., female undergarments).

B. The fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

C. The fetish objects are not limited to articles of female clothing used in cross-dressing (as in Transvestic Fetishism) or devices designed for the purpose of tactile genital stimulation (e.g., a vibrator).


Diagnostic criteria for 302.3 Transvestic Fetishism

A. Over a period of at least 6 months, in a heterosexual male, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving cross-dressing.

B. The fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

The letter categories and "ands" not "ors"

So, technically, according to the APA, you would seem to qualify as both under Category A, but, you don't qualify under Category B, since you don't seem to have any "distress or impairment in social functioning". So, going by the book, you display fetishic behaviors, but not distress, therefore you don't meet the clinical criteria.

You have unfortunately found the worst type of therapist: one who has mis-diagnosed you and one who thinks it can be cured. I don't think anyone reputable in the field believes it can be cured anymore than being gay can be cured. As was mentioned above, being gay was previously included as a "disease" in the prior DSM, but has since been removed.

I think your real problem now is that your wife thinks you can be cured. But just remember that there are medical professionals that are willing to take your money and give you "snake oil" to cure you of various incurable illnesses.

Fortunately, I found that my minister did not think it was a disease, nor did my marriage councelor or therapist. In fact, when I "interviewed" my current therapist I told her that I was interested in understanding why I did what I did, but I enjoyed it, and did not want to be cured. I did see another therapist for a time who was immediately convinced that I was gay. I decided pretty quickly that she was not terribly knowledgable in CD/TG/TS issues.

At the time my wife discovered that I crossdressed, I would have done just about anything to keep my marriage intact. Now, I still crossdressing while keeping it out of her face, but if she gave me an ultimatum to choose crossdressing or her, she might not get the answer she is expecting

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Originally Posted by Samantha X

Is it a fetish? Can it be cured?

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[SIZE="2"]No and NO. :hmph:

Save money on therapists and discuss things with actual crossdressers on this site – you’ll learn all you need to know. I think fetishes are involved within crossdressing (for many of us), more like a means to an end and not the ONLY thing going on, if you catch my drift…
:)[/SIZE]

The couples counseling would be good for those non-CD related issues ( like communication ). As for "being cured" if it IS just a sexual fetish ( clothes or anything used for sexual arousal), potentially you could be cured of that. You can tell the therapist what you told us, that this started at age 5, but it sounds like he might just respond with some blather about "being in denial." The best thing you can do is share openly with your wife about it & take time to listen to her feelings/fears. Some people in such relationships work out a compromise, and some end up splitting. Depends on the two people & what they'll both put up with.

I'm not a therapist, but my SO is. I think Kittykitty makes a good point. Unless you disclosed a lot more to the therapist than you mentioned to us, that diagnosis was out of line.

There seem to be a lot issues in this thread that also relate to a current thread questioning the role of therapists.

My thoughts on therapists is a very pointed one,if you give a therapist a colonic,they disappear.

I'm a veteran and for 40 years,on and off I have seen the rapists,according to them,everything is my fault,I was doing it to myself,one even said I dressed the way I do because I was suicidal,and wanted to be a murder victim,thats been my experiences with the rapists.

If ya'll wonering why I spelled it the rapist,I just broke it down,because thats how I see them,they rape the human mind,at least the government therapists do.

The whole idea of "fetishes" is bogus, IMO. What we're talking about here is just different sexual preferences. If you can only enjoy sex while wearing a propeller hat and scuba flippers, you limit your potential partners but it doesn't harm anyone. It used to be that anything but coitus in the missionary position for purposes of procreation was a sin. The psychological profession took this cultural superstition, dressed it up in 'scientific' jargon and made any deviation from it into a "fetish" or "paraphilia." That position has been modified somewhat over the years but it's still where the professional bias against crossdressing comes from. I came across this paper not too long ago by a noted sexologist that I think "Tells it like it is."

It seems to me that the problem between you and your wife is that you are not sexually compatible with each other. Maybe you can come to an arrangement that can save the relationship but there is nothing wrong with your sexual preferences and there is nothing wrong with hers either. Good luck.

Reine, I agree with you. The deception issue was discussed in another thread. It's about going forward. I admit that my post was intentionally sarcastic. See what happens when one party is thrown under the bus. This thread is about Samantha's drive to crossdress: is it a fetish? Can it be cured? The consensus here is that the therapist was out of line by making an instant diagnosis and path for a cure. In my opinion, the answers to the two questions are: maybe (only Samantha knows), and no.

Unfortunately for Samantha (and wife), Stephanie really nails it:

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Originally Posted by Stephanie47

Samantha, I went back and read your other posting about being screwed because your wife found out about your cross-dressing. Now, I really think you're screwed. Your wife has now been told by a therapist that you can be 'cured.' This person is stating that you have an addiction that is curable. What's your wife going to do, if you are not cured? What are you going to do, if you are not 'cured.'?

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The only way I can see hope is to get a new therapist, and see if he/she can undo the damage done by the current therapist.

Nicole, I agree. A therapist familiar with gender issues would help educate Samantha's wife, and hopefully would also help them both communicate effectively about the CDing.

He seemed a bit too eager to jump to a conclusion for my taste.

In psychotherapy it's not the therapist's job to draw conclusion. It's to help you learn about yourself, so you can come up with your own solutions. Otherwise it's just a quack telling you what to do with your life and then charging for it.

Down here, in Branson area, there are a lot of 'christian counselors', usually associated with either Assembly of God or Baptists. Also NARTH advocates down here.
Run away, run away from these people as fast as you can!