I am NOT gay!

Frederique,
Your post is kinda confusing. It can mean anything, which is one of the confusing points of the whole thing.

Do you use gay as in...

Being happy? (the old worldy way of using the word gay)

Being female and sexually liking women? (I guess that makes me gay when I am dressed)

Or being a male in female clothing and being sexually attracted to men?

I am just curious if you were playing a fun game with the term.

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When we finally get to the point where we don't think of ourselves as strange or perverted maybe we can address the idea that we all want sex with guy.

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I don't. LOL. I just want us to get to a point IT DOESN'T MATTER. That's all. I would like to get to a point where if I am out in a skirt and heels my sexual orientation does not enter into it. It is just a clothing choice.

Now that would make me "gay"

Sananigans,

I have seen much animosity in the gay comunity toward Bisexuals. There is one radio host around here that has voiced such. He is very anti unity with other outside groups "Bi-sexual, transgendered"

Frankly I have to return to how sad it is that one group of minorities, will discriminate against another group of minorities.

Is it possible that you slap happy friend is a closeted lesbian. Why would would she react like this.

Oh, and at least around here, being gay cannot be grounds to be terminated from your job, it is no longer though of as a mental disorder worthy of having certificates and ratings you worked hard for being revoked, and is usually not grounds for someone being denied a job, or for that matter a love life. ( :) ). So yes, in many ways to be gay in our society is easier than being a straight crossdresser.

Wow!
Some very interesting reads and thoughts in this. There are just about as many different thoughts as there are responses!

I'm not gay either. I just dress from time to time when I'm down in the dumps. It does make fell a little better, but lately it hasn't helped.

When I was a (and I use the term loosely) "man", I was straight. Since I have been a woman (21 years now) I am still straight. So where are you girls hanging out that you have so much problems and confusion? Maybe it is time to find better places to spend your free time??? Just a thought.

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Originally Posted by Shananigans

I don't really see acceptance for homosexuality as a problem. Also, gender really has little to do with being straight or gay. Maybe you mean gender has little to do with what sex you may be attracted to...?

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[SIZE="2"]Acceptance for homosexuality still seems to be a major problem, and there is evidence to back up that statement right here, on this site. I mean, I don’t understand why someone feels the need to declare, “I’M NOT GAY,” especially in a place like this, where every form of sexual orientation is present and accounted for. It all boils down to lack of feelings for others, and a stubborn outlook that alienates those who see and experience things differently. Even if there is a begrudging tolerance for homosexuality ongoing at the present time, reality is far more disappointing in terms of actual acceptance. It’s like walking into a vegetarian restaurant and saying, in a loud voice, “I LIKE MEAT!” OK, but how do you think you’re making others feel? Try to use some discretion, which may or may not indicate a willingness to be less overtly heterosexual, if only for a moment…[/SIZE]

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Originally Posted by Pythos

Frederique, Your post is kinda confusing. It can mean anything, which is one of the confusing points of the whole thing.
Do you use gay as in...
Being happy? (the old worldy way of using the word gay)
Being female and sexually liking women? (I guess that makes me gay when I am dressed)
Or being a male in female clothing and being sexually attracted to men?
I am just curious if you were playing a fun game with the term.

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[SIZE="2"]I wasn’t playing a game with the term, I was declaring my surrender to the accepted notion that MtF crossdressers must be gay, meaning homosexual. I’m just frustrated with all this nonsense. I don’t mind being thought of as homosexual. Am I? All I can say is I’m increasingly aware of starting down the wrong path many years ago, and I DON’T mean crossdressing. It’s a pity, but I can’t do anything about it at this late date. Because of this, it really ruffles my feathers when someone unknowingly insults homosexuality on a forum like this – just because you dress as a female doesn’t necessarily imply anything, no matter what you hear, but how about embracing this hitherto unknown part of yourself and learning something in the process? I guarantee that the recipient of this knowledge will become increasingly reluctant to make such sweeping prejudicial distinctions, and we’ll all be better off because of it…[/SIZE]

I am 100% str8 crossdressing male to female Vaginaterian and loving it.

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Originally Posted by Frédérique

[SIZE="2"]Acceptance for homosexuality still seems to be a major problem, and there is evidence to back up that statement right here, on this site. I mean, I don’t understand why someone feels the need to declare, “I’M NOT GAY,” especially in a place like this, where every form of sexual orientation is present and accounted for. It all boils down to lack of feelings for others, and a stubborn outlook that alienates those who see and experience things differently. Even if there is a begrudging tolerance for homosexuality ongoing at the present time, reality is far more disappointing in terms of actual acceptance. It’s like walking into a vegetarian restaurant and saying, in a loud voice, “I LIKE MEAT!” OK, but how do you think you’re making others feel? Try to use some discretion, which may or may not indicate a willingness to be less overtly heterosexual, if only for a moment…[/SIZE]

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BINGO!

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Originally Posted by Pythos

Sananigans,

I have seen much animosity in the gay comunity toward Bisexuals. There is one radio host around here that has voiced such. He is very anti unity with other outside groups "Bi-sexual, transgendered"

Frankly I have to return to how sad it is that one group of minorities, will discriminate against another group of minorities.

Is it possible that you slap happy friend is a closeted lesbian. Why would would she react like this.

Oh, and at least around here, being gay cannot be grounds to be terminated from your job, it is no longer though of as a mental disorder worthy of having certificates and ratings you worked hard for being revoked, and is usually not grounds for someone being denied a job, or for that matter a love life. ( :) ). So yes, in many ways to be gay in our society is easier than being a straight crossdresser.

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I've never had problems with my sexual orientation in the gay community. I DO sometimes have to reiterate that being bisexual does not mean "promiscuous" or that I have to be with both a man and a woman at the same time in order to be happy. (Yes, some people actually think this). But, for the most part, gays recognize you are a minority and we scratch each others backs. This is why there's that huge group that keeps adding letters to itself....LGBTQ. So, I find it very, very sad when crossdressers on this site say very uncaring things about gay people...or, act like they are saying, "WELL, AT LEAST I'M NOT GAY!" Because, at the end of the day, we are all under the same umbrella. We are all minority groups and we all want to scratch each others' backs and work towards acceptance. (Thus, the T and the Q in the LGBQT). It also makes me sad when gay bars say, "No, no, no....no more drag shows. I'm tired of gay being synonymous with men in dresses." No one in either of these communities is saying that. No gay person is saying all CDs are gay...no CD is saying that all gay people wear dresses. (Or, all lesbians wear trousers...or all bisexuals wear skirt suits so that they can have a blend of both haha). No. The people that are saying CDs are all gay are OUTSIDERS and they need to be informed. The best way to go about informing people isn't by just splitting up and making asses of ourself...the best way to go about it is be a united front about it.

Also, do I really have to bring up news articles where people are killed TODAY over their sexual preferences? Saying anyone's life is "easy" is something that can only be done when you haven't walked in that person's shoes. And though gays are still killed NOW IN THE UNITED STATES, let's think about what being gay means to the other 90% of the world. Still easy?

Furthermore, it is true that certain professions have dress codes that EVERYONE has to follow. For example, I cannot wear a skirt to work. I cannot wear a dress to work. I cannot wear open-toed shoes to work. My hair must be pulled back at work. Can't wear "excessive" jewelry...whatever that means. My nails cannot be "too long." Everyone has to do it for safety reasons. If you don't like the uniform..quit. I'd be a bit in a bid if I was Pentecostal. But, in reality with as much crap as I do, I know these rules are here for a reason and I really do agree with them. Dress how you want on your own time. If you feel your gender is a woman and therefore you must wear dresses 24/7...well, sucks for you. Even women have to follow the rules. You will wear the attire and you will smile...or you can get a new job. There's a high unemployment rate and someone can replace you tomorrow who won't b*tch about things that are probably required for a reason.

If your facility does Not have dress codes, you sure can show up in a skirt. In fact, people fired over dressing as a different gender have taken the matter to court...and they have won. It's sad you were fired, but I'm sure winning a law suit will make you happy. I think the argument was that firing because of dressing as another gender when there was no set dress code was ruled "unconstitutional." I'll research some links...just remember these things from gender class. But, yeah, if you are going to wear a skirt to work, don't forget your panty hose. Women actually had to fight to wear trousers to work. It's still unacceptable in some places for women to wear trousers. It's catching on though. But, women wearing skirts (better be about knee-length too) are required to wear panty hose and very maternal looking flats. It's not like we don't have restrictions and we can just roll up in a mini skirt and thigh highs and stilettos. Work clothes suck. That's why you WORK in them. It's not about looking sexy...it's about doing your job and looking professional.

Why does it bother you unless you're talking to someone you want to get involved with?

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Originally Posted by Frédérique

[FONT="Book Antiqua"][SIZE="2"][COLOR="black"] Acceptance for homosexuality still seems to be a major problem, and there is evidence to back up that statement right here, on this site. I mean, I don’t understand why someone feels the need to declare, “I’M NOT GAY,” especially in a place like this, where every form of sexual orientation is present and accounted for. It all boils down to lack of feelings for others, and a stubborn outlook that alienates those who see and experience things differently. Even if there is a begrudging tolerance for homosexuality ongoing at the present time, reality is far more disappointing in terms of actual acceptance. It’s like walking into a vegetarian restaurant and saying, in a loud voice, “I LIKE MEAT!” OK, but how do you think you’re making others feel? Try to use some discretion, which may or may not indicate a willingness to be less overtly heterosexual, if only for a moment…

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I must disagree with you on this one, Frederique. It's a stretch to assume "I'm not gay" means "I don't like gays". Why, on this forum, is it OK to declare that one is gay, but not OK say that one is not gay? Double standard.
I thought this forum was about issues associated with presenting as a different gender, specifically crossdressing. Many posters have been outspoken in making sure we all understand the difference between sex and gender. There sure seems to be a lot of talk about sex, especially same sex, that has no crossdressing component.
So if we want to talk about homosexuality, let's do it. There are some here that do not want to be assumed to be gay, for their own reasons, and they should have every right to say so. I mean, if we're going to talk about it, everything's on the table. This supersensitivity and taking offense to "I'm not gay" is silly and needs to end.
Your vegetarian analogy makes sense only if you think "I like meat" means "I hate vegetarians".
Although I don't see this matter your way, Frederique, I love reading your posts.

I may as well be on fire! <3

Pythos, maybe there should be a new recovery group: Knuckle Draggers Anonymous! Sadly, that is the grim truth in the world. Most automatically assume we are perverts, or else gay.

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Why does it bother you unless you're talking to someone you want to get involved with?

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Wouldn't it be nice if that is all that really mattered? But let's face it. For too many, perception is reality.

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Originally Posted by Katesback

Considering that the overwelming majority of crossdressers live in the closet and thier only ventures into the world are to gay bars it is reasonable to say that the general public has virtually NO reference point as to what a crossdresser is except.... drag queens.

Since they are all too often gay and since they are virtually the only trans people exposed to the world it is no wonder the world thinks CDs are gay.

Perhaps some day CDs will come out of the closet and walk into the real world with a sense of confidence and pride. Until that day they will be victims of thier own fears and judged by society with no one on the witness stand since they nearly all hide in the closet.

KAtie

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You've hit the nail squarely on the head, well said.

Carol

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Originally Posted by Fab Karen

Why does it bother you unless you're talking to someone you want to get involved with?

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Agreed! Its sad that in general our society still can't look past sexual preference and gender identity. Both, for me, are somewhat complex :). I prefer to not worry about labeling myself, and I certainly do not care what label someone else attaches to me. If someone can look past all that and love me for who I am then that is a true friend. Everyone else can deal with their own misconceptions about who I am, I really try to not make that my problem!

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Originally Posted by Fab Karen

Why does it bother you unless you're talking to someone you want to get involved with?

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are we talking male or female? :)

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Originally Posted by Kaz

If I was gay, why would I want a guy dressed as a woman? This is not what I would be attracted to!

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See, that's just it. Some gay guys are. We simply cannot put out broad statements about how other people must feel or act. There's some of everything out there, if you can imagine it, there's someone sexually attracted to it......and, another person who's repulsed by it as well. It's a big world, and it takes all kinds.......

I like men and yet I have a need and urge to be a woman so i dress as a woman. I can't explain it but I know those are 2 things that go together for me. Everyone is different.

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

are we talking male or female? :)

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If a GG, you just say,"If you come with me, I'll correct you of that notion":)

Personally, I'm attracted to people I find attractive. Their gender/gender identity isn't an issue.