I told my wife, she reacted poorly

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Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

The problem is that those surveys aren't random; they're picked from people who volunteer to respond and are active in some type of supportive crossdresser groups. As such, it doesn't come remotely close to include accurate percentages of us.

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Well, where else are surveyors to find CDers, except those who are out in public? How on earth do we get CDers who are deep in the closet and who do not even attend support groups, to answer questionnaires? My SO and I belong to a rather large TG support group. I would say that the people who attend are representative of the members in this forum. They talk about the same things at dinner. They have the same concerns, they look about the same as the members who post pics in the Gallery. So why would the 1,000 CDers who attend support groups and who agreed to take the survey be different from anyone else? :rolleyes:

SometimesMiss, do take the time to read the research I posted. Look at all the questions and answers objectively. You will see that it pretty much mirrors the membership in this forum.

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Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

And again, I will state that the number of women who find us attractive is infinitesimal, and that is based on real world experiences.

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Who ever said that wives should be attracted to their husbands while crossdressed? We're talking about a level of support that enables the CDer to express himself while retaining his marriage, aren't we? Laila did mention that the concern is divorce and not that the wife should be attracted to the CDing? I fully support my SO, as you know, and I love him deeply. Yet I am not attracted to women. But, we work that out, just like all the other successful marriages in this forum.


EDIT - I posted this link earlier, and I'll post it again for the benefit of the few members who posted just before this post. They are stories from people in this forum who do have supportive or tolerant wives. And again, these are not all the threads, just the ones that a few people thought to tag for the tag cloud:

SUPPORTIVE AND TOLERANT WIVES AND SOs

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Originally Posted by MelanieAnne

This forum is awash in sad stories of those who came out and wound up divorced, broke, lost their kids, homes, etc. ... There is a lot at stake for those who may be thinking about coming out, and I repeat, most of those efforts end badly!

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It's really between what you say, and what JenniferAtHome says. Lots of marriages will break up over this, yes. Most will not. However, I think the statistics are like ~60% stay together. Note: "Stay together" may still mean your marriage is pretty terrible after this - but hey, they didn't divorce. You don't hit "most fail" territory until you start talking about transition.

At the end of the day, if you don't feel you can be honest about who you really are with your spouse, why do you want to stay in a relationship with them? Yes, divorce sucks. Yes, losing stuff sucks. But divorces happen for all kinds of reasons. Why is this any different? I assert that it just isn't, really. Why do you want to be in a relationship that makes you feel awful. You can hear the sadness in a lot of the posts from married CDs about how they fear discovery, wish their wives understood them, etc. Why would you want to be in a relationship where you feel like that?

I understand why many of us don't come out before starting the relationship. I didn't, and I paid the price for that. It isn't a fair situation for us, I know all too well that it isn't. But despite all of that, and as unfair as the world can be, we still owe people we want to be in relationships with honesty. Unfortunately, sometimes our payment for our honesty will be rejection. Often that will be the case. Nevertheless, honesty at the start of the relationship is the only ethical thing to do. It would be different if coming out could result in legal arrest, or other severe sanction that jeopardized your safety. But that just isn't the case for most of us in the US.

I also understand the fear of having NO relationship ever again in the future. And for many of you, if you only consider relationships with straight, vanilla women, you are going to have a tough go of finding a relationship. I truly believe, though, that if you are flexible, learn about the kinds of people who might want to be in a relationship with you because you know what you need and can offer in a relationship, and can be really honest about who you are, that love is out there. But you may need to do a LOT of work on yourself - on who you are - to find it.

When I started my transition - and this was a lot more to reveal than what most of you have to tell - I feared I'd never be in another relationship again. That hasn't been the case for me at all. But I also did a lot of work on learning who I really am, and what I really want and need, and what I can offer to someone else. I've changed a lot - and that may be what some of you need to consider. I'm not talking about medical transition stuff, or even social transition. I'm talking about really understanding and accepting who you are, and how your feelings really work.

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Originally Posted by Heidi Stevens

One thing we've done, an this may work for you and your wife, is Don't ask, don't tell (DADT). *snip* She is aware of Heidi, but has told me several times, she doesnt want to see any evidence of her. She is expecting to see just her husband when we are together. It's working so far.

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Sorry to hear of the outcome Laila. It sure is a difficult time for you and you would feel guilt for upsetting the woman you love. It does seem though that you will be able to work through the shocks and disappointments to emerge a stronger and loving couple. It may not seem this way at present but love can take many forms.

I'd read lots of advice on the forum before talking to my wife about 4 years ago. I hadn't been hiding dressing. After a 3 year absence the urge/need to dress came storming back. The outcome of my reveal was totally unexpected and unpredictable. She threatened suicide - couldn't live with me, couldn't live without me. They were 6 difficult, emotional and hurtful months feeling that my wife didn't truly love me. On her side, she felt betrayed - she didn't have the man in her life that she thought she had.

I suspect that much of her fear for the future was from ignorance and uncertainty.

While there are some differences with Heidi's situation, over the last four years DADT has worked very well for us. My wife knows I dress, where my clothes are (spare bedroom) and that I launder them each week. We talk about fashion, make up, hair colours but never about me. She doesn't want to see, hear or know about my femme life. I periodically acknowledge that I know she knows I dress and I'm very grateful that I can.

Some might say that's sad to live compartmentalised lives and not have my best friend in my femme life but I am able to dress 4 or so days a week in any style I please and go anywhere I want. I can epilate arms, shave chest and legs. She overlooks the occasional mistake in taking off makeup or nail polish.

So my experience is that a reveal that goes badly need not end badly but it takes time to heal and sort out a way forward that works for both of you. Laila, that is likely to involve you dressing.

Laila, you said it..."a marriage is a team"

I'm sure we all feel for you and can empathise with the outcome of your "coming clean". Your wife's reaction, sadly, is nothing unusual. The initial reaction is usually rejection I think but then there has to be a period of reflection and a re-assessment of where you are and where you BOTH want to go. As you rightly stated - "a marriage is a team". It is not the prerogative of either partner in that team to make unilateral decisions about what is and what is not acceptable.

So have a cooling off period. I would not throw anything away nor would I agree to never CDing again - experience suggests that you will not be able to deliver that promise in the long-run. Yes, it is better to have it out in the open - it assuages your guilty conscience but the downside of that is that your wife is faced with something she is far from comfortable with. Openness is key here in the way forward. This is something that is important to you and appears to be part of who you are (and so say all of us) but your wife is struggling with it. For her to impose that sort of ultimatum on you is not good for the future of the relationship; it will continue to rankle with you and will likely fester away only to re-surface in the future. It is better to talk in a controlled situation, with a counsellor, and have a sensible discussion leading to an agreed compromise - on the assumption that you wish to continue going forward together.

Teamwork is about having shared goals, agreed parameters and having one partner who dictates terms to the other is not part of "teamwork". It is hard for SOs suddenly to discover this "other part" of us; it is no surprise that they react badly - we have kept this secret from them, we seem suddenly to be a different person, our sexuality and commitment is suddenly brought into focus and questioned. But neither party should make sudden rash decisions about what should and what should not be permitted.

If you are both committed to being together for the longer-term, as a team, then this has to be discussed rationally and you have to agree the compromise solution that you both sign up to. Do not sign up to something you can't, or don't want, to deliver - it has to be acceptable to BOTH.

You may well find that you can agree some middle ground and you may, like me, find that the boundaries can be pushed back over time. However you take this forward you will find others here who have been there before you - you will never be short of advice or support but it is for you and your wife to determine how you go on from here.

Good luck Laila, you'll need it

Michelle
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"So why would the 1,000 CDers who attend support groups and who agreed to take the survey be different from anyone else?"

Reine,

I have to ask how you can justify that they would they be representative of "all" the other CD's out there? Even the study authors said that their study was not and could not be representative of the total population, meaning that it was the results of a small niche part of the whole voicing their opinions. I agree that what study had for participants may very well be similar to what we have on this site. Here we have over 40,000 member with only a fraction active at any one time, plus a lot of guests regularly reading what they can here. Those that participate regularly an even smaller part of the active members at least have that courage to open their mouths, actually use their fingers typing, to ask for help or voice their opinions. What about all the rest? No, this study does not represent the real world, only a part of it. Extrapolation to form definitive statements about all of us is not possible from that study, as acknowledged by the authors. It gives possible explanations but far from definitive ones.

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Originally Posted by AllieSF

Reine,

I have to ask how you can justify that they would they be representative of "all" the other CD's out there? Even the study authors said that their study was not and could not be representative of the total population, meaning that it was the results of a small niche part of the whole voicing their opinions.

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Aaarrrgghh! ::wall: (Sorry for the rant. lol)

Please people, read objectively and with common sense!

Laila, I do apologize for the few who keep bringing this up, but since they did I feel compelled to respond so that others reading this thread will not relapse into the prevailing myth of a majority antagonistic GGs.

This is from the study:

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Originally Posted by Docter & Prince Study 1997 - Research Method, last paragraph

The present sample is non representative in that it does not include cross-dressers such as female impersonators, so-called "drag queens", or any substantial number of applicants for sex reassignment surgery. The exclusion of these cross-dressers almost certainly results in underestimating the percentage of homosexual men who would be self-identified cross-dressers. Equally important, our cross-dressers who elect to join support groups and subscribe to publications concerned with cross-dressing appear to be a more socially conventional and demographically "upscale" group. We also believe our sample is biased in favor of cross-dressers who believe research of this kind is worth giving their time to. If this is true, we reason that our sample probably includes a disproportionate number of better educated men who have both the time and motivation to complete an extensive survey form.

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So to recap, the survey does NOT include a large number of:

• Drag-queens
• TSs
• Homosexuals

The survey does include large numbers of:

• Crossdressers
• Heterosexuals
• Better educated men

If any of you believe that this is not representational of the CDers (not TSs) who habitually post in this forum's CD section, then I don't know what else to say. :wall: lol. As far as I can tell, most of the CDers here are not drag-queens, they are hetero (they certainly do have a lot of concerns over their marriages to GGs), and they do express themselves consistent with people who have had some education.

Perhaps, if anyone knows how to set one up, we should run our own survey and see how our little family here responds!
Between wives 1&2 and the woman inbetween, I'm two out of three for accepting. Women are not intrinsically open to it, it's all about what you bring to the table.

In reading part of the study I noticed in the "Method" section (pg3 of the file) that it says only 30 to 35% of the participants responded to the survey. Am I reading that wrong or did only 310 or so of that 1,032 actually participate.

Either way, the only stat I'm concerned about is the 100% that encompasses the 1 person I am married to and I just can't see myself disclosing my CDing to her just yet. The pros simply do not out weigh the cons if a reveal went sideways. Maybe in time I'll feel I can tell her if I think her ideas about it change. But right now I don't think she would accept it.

I'm so very sorry this went sideways on you Laila. I hope that after a little cooling off you two can start some meaningful dialogue and work things out.

Love and hugs
Sayyidah

Sue, no. They handed out the survey to over 3,000 people, and only about a third responded ... which is another thing that is consistent with the average CDer. Most would be concerned about privacy, and so would not want to send in responses ... as did the two-thirds of the people who got the questionnaire in 1997 and who chose to not respond.

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Originally Posted by LailaLaila

I took some of te advice on here and used it to tell my wife about CDing. She took it really badly. She made me throw everything away. The ultimatum was divorce. I don't know what to do. I was so happy wearing women's clothes. I thought she would be supportive. What do I do? Help...

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This is the fear we all have when coming out about our crossdressing :( I'm so sorry to hear that your wife reacted badly, its always hard telling the ones close to us and worse when your met with rejection :( On the other hand at least you are open about it and its out there now, there a couple of ways to look at this from your wife's point of view she may see this as a betrayal of thrust seen as you didn't tell her before you were married.
Another is that she may feel threatened by this female side to you or she may be just in shock and needs some time to come around to the idea. In these cases its important to consider your wife's feelings and maybe suggest you both go to therapy to work through it if needs be. You have learned now that its not wise to assume even loved ones will accept unfortunately :( But the most important thing to remember here is that this is a part of who you are and there is no way to change that you will always crave that feminine part of yourself :straightface: I suppressed my crossdressing for 10 years and it stayed with me until I came to except it. Just be yourself because if you pretend to be someone else for the sake of your marriage you risk living a lie and being unhappy :( just make sure whatever decision you make its better for you and your wife in the long run good luck and remember there are alot of us here for support :hugs:

The one thing we engineers know is that statistics can be used to disprove gravity.

I have told my wife about being bi-sexual, but have never told her about my crossdressing. This post is one reason why I have not told her. I would love for me and her to go out me dressed of course and pick up another man to have a wild threesome with. I love my wife and could definitely handle another guy inside her as long as we play together.

I know the feeling, I told my first wife and she immediately started divorce proceedings. I haven't told my second wife....

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Originally Posted by TinaW

I know the feeling, I told my first wife and she immediately started divorce proceedings. I haven't told my second wife....

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While my first wife never caught on, I didn't enter a permanent relationship with my fiancee till she was on board with my crossdressing, I'd rather be alone than enter into another relationship without crossdressing. I won't hide again.

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Originally Posted by TinaW

I know the feeling, I told my first wife and she immediately started divorce proceedings.....

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Really? So everything was great at home. You guys had an open and caring relationship then you tell her you cross dress and it's divorce? I'm calling bull on that.

I written many, many times that if a relationship has a solid foundation, cross dressing will not end it. That is not to mean one;s wife will jump in excitedly. DADT may be the result, BUT the relationship continues BECAUSE there was a foundation.

Laila - For context here, I haven't read anyone elses reply, I'm just giving you an unbiased opinion from a CD who's wife knows, accepts, but does not actively encourage.

What do you do.
First thing - Do your own research. Your post count suggests you haven't been here long. So figure out exactly what CDing is for you. Is it a hint at underlying transexualism or is it simply fetishistic role play stuff.
It's important to know because your wife will want to know and you need to know if your dressing is important enough to divorce over.
Second - Try to educate her. Theres a big section of this forum dedicated to just that. Gather as much info as you can and give it to her when you think the time is right.
Third- Consider relationship counselling. And don't treat counselling as a stigma, trust me, counselling can work wonders. Might even be worth seeing someone by yourself to help discover what dressing is to you.

Don't expect this to work overnight.
My wife goes through periods of acceptance and 'less' acceptance, but the truth of the matter is, she married her man. She doesn't want that being threatened.
Her initial reaction, while strong, was understandable.

Talk to her!

15 years later after telling my wife and she still doesn't want to talk about it or be involved with it.

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Originally Posted by Jenniferathome

I written many, many times that if a relationship has a solid foundation, cross dressing will not end it

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How can the foundation of a relationship be strong if one of the partners in it has lied about something so fundamental about their identity? I've never understood how that could be possible. I understand that some people are strong enough to work through the damage of finding out that they've been told a pack of lies for a long time, but I would think that was personal enough of a thing - like surviving infidelity - that survival of the relationship was not a sure thing in all cases.

Sorry to hear the telling didn't go so well. When I told my long term girlfriend that I was starting to explore crossdressing more and more it was brutal. I felt like I was on the verge of losing her. In the end though we came to a don't ask, don't tell agreement. Where as long as I kept it out of sight she would be tolerant of it. That was many years ago and we're still going strong.

You were very brave to tell your wife and it was absolutely the right thing to do. Just try and keep being honest with yourself and with her about what you need, and let her know that her needs are important too and hopefully, maybe, you'll be able to come to some sort of agreement that you both can live with. Like many have advised me here, go slow, don't push, and don't do things in secret without acknowledging to your wife that you will be.

I can't guarantee that it will work for you, just as no one else can guarantee that it won't. None of us know you or your wife personally and none of us can say for certain that things will end up one way or the other.

Good luck and keep us posted.