Believable theories on Cross-dressing

I think that all crossdresser's mothers were abducted by aliens and impregnated with a mixe of human and alien DNA which caused the genders to blure... Don't you read the National inquirer?? Lol

That's as plausable a theory as anyone elses becaues for one none of them can be proven or recreated...

And who cares why!! Wouldn't change a thing if you did know? You'd still crossdress... So all the theorizing and postulating is not woth the time expended one it since it wouldn't make a difference in any one of our lives going forward...

Rather spend my time getting pretty than fretting about why I want to get pretty.. Lol

Love Karren

Ashleigh, when I'm not in a dress, I'm a scientist, and I know a theory when I see one. I didn't see any in that link you posted. There's some techno jargon but no coherent mechanism proposed.
I'm not claiming to understand CDing, but that page doesn't help anyone.
I would suggest that we can all find out a lot about why we personally crossdress through therapy, if we want to know, but it's not going to be some glib, general, 200-word explanation. And as Karren has so wisely pointed out, we're gonna do it anyway so do we really need to know why?

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Originally Posted by Barbara4242

Sorry, Marina, but we'll have to agree to disagree -- hopefully without being disagreeable. Your first sentence labeled a vast majority of mtf heterosexual CDers as being, to some degree, transsexual. The hormone bath/wash does not solely apply to transsexualism at all. It applies to both core gender identity and gender role identity, which are absolutely different. I think you'll agree that we could literally write volumes on this subject and still not reach a satisfactory conclusion.

From things you have posted, I get the sense that you don't accept that someone can be anatomically male AND male in core gender identity, yet have a subjective dichotomy that presents a feminine aspect of their root psyche as it relates to gender role identity. A clear distinction must, therefore, be made between core gender identity and gender role indentity, just as we must distinguish between the subjective and the objective, and that whch is congruus from the incongruous.

A prenatal hormonal milieu DOES occur and determines, to some degree, gender identity. What is unknown is the formation of an unconflicted gender identity and gender role. There is ambiguity within the controlled scientific data . . . for example, most children with gender identity conflicts do not develop into transsexual adults.

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No problem with agreeing to disagree.
No, I dont think that the vast majority of mtf hetro CDers are Transexual (to a degree)---I stated that those TWO theories in question only applied to CDing that had a TS element while not addressing other possible root causes.

I think the "hormone wash" leads to a CONGENITAL degree of TS that can cause a range of full blown TS or to milder cases---leaving sexuality intact while affecting only the gender idenity. Those such affected may be prone to urges to CD. But like I said above, this is only ONE of several different conditions, congenital or not, that may lead to CDing.

Obviously, things are not as simple as they seem---as you point out There are several different M/F idenity elements, which if "togled" the 'wrong" way can lead to various identity "problems" some of which seem contradictory. This is why I look at what you have to say seriously. I am STILL working on identifying these elements. So far I have recognized, the SEXUALITY element (hetro vs Homo), The GENDER element(Male vs Female---perhaps this may be related to gender ROLE too)
There are also other identity elements---the PERSONAL element (the "Me") and the HUMAN vs ANIMAL element and the ANIMATE vs INANIMATE.

I beleive that prenatal hormones "SET" the identity elements to a "default" and can result in both biological inapproprate settings or also an odd admixture---Hetro Male with gender a female identity for example---as opposed to the true TS with a "Homosexual" sexuality with a Female gender identity.----Of course these two types are prone to CD---but these arent the ONLY causes of CD.(my MAIN point)

I do not think that there is any DIRECT genetic cause for TS related CDing or even transsexuality itself--provided the single XY cromosones are present, but rather an inhereted predispotition, on the part of the MOTHER to cycle hormones incorrectly when pregnant.

Excuse me Eva,

I don't actually have " information" . My ideas are formed partly from overheard conversations at Tri-Ess meetings. And snatches of readings on other sites.

Check this out for studies on the genetics of gay men. Milton Dimond has written papers in this area.
http://members.aol.com/gaygene/pages/biblio.htm

Actually i was hopeing someone on this site could come up with a number or a scientific study with data showing the chance of a twin crossdresser having a crossdressing twin brother.

Anybody here who has an identical twin brother--what do you think? Fraternal twin brother? Plain ordinary brother? Crossdressing sister?

And how do i tell if my brothers crossdress? I would need a polygraph (lie detector machine).

If a crossdressing man marries a crossdressing woman--what are the gender leanings of the children?

All the explanations dont change the reality one bit.

I just think that I look better as a woman than I do as a man. Anybody else feel that way.

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Originally Posted by Ruth

Ashleigh, when I'm not in a dress, I'm a scientist, and I know a theory when I see one. I didn't see any in that link you posted. There's some techno jargon but no coherent mechanism proposed.

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I agree. The logic train appears to be : because we know hormones have something to do with gender and we know there is a hormone wash then OBVIOUSLY the two must join together to form crossdressers. Afterall, if it feels right, it must be a great theory......not. Here is a fact: there is not one iota of evidence that the hormone wash has anything to do with crossdressing. Karen's alien DNA theory has the same level of validity as this theory or any other of the dozen or so that I have come across.

These ideas are really just "feel good" stab in the dark ideas which when repeated often enough take on a resemblence that there is substantive evidence behind it when in fact there is none. It may give people comfort to believe that they were born to crossdress so it is not their fault. But at this moment in time this is just a belief, not a theory.

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Originally Posted by Bernadina

I'm at a loss as to why we need a theory at all.

A theory implies that transgenderism in any form is unnatural.

After all, and unless I'm greatly mistaken, we all, each and everyone of us, without exception, are the product of a male and female set of parents.

Which means we are all part male and part female whether we like it or not.

Just because a lot of politicians, sociologists, scientists, and theologians work hard to pretend that transgenderisn is abnormal, and force society to accept their flawed views, its just not true.

Transgenderism is a natural part of nature and does need any theories to explain nor does it need fixing.

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I totally disagree. I think a theory implies an attempt at understanding by the science community. Think about it, at one point in time Johannes Kepler had a theory that the planets moved not in circular orbits but in elliptical orbits. Today, this is accepted fact, but back in the day it was wild stuff!

From a scientific point of view, trying to understand TG/CD/Etc is going to take a theory... and the proving or disproving of said theory. At some point they'll have a reason, and in that reason will not be an abnormality... That's the wrong tact to take in my mind. It'll will be an explanation, in much the same way as the orbit of the planets once was.

Do I want to be some sideshow freak, some science experiment? Hell no! Do I think a theory can help our cause? Maybe. Remains to be seen really, but I'd like to give the those that care a chance. Now the rest of them, that want to place me into some moral category... they can go f' themselves. Science, Im interested in what they have to say. Outside of that, its not necessarily their business now is it?

Salandra:

I don't think examining theories suggests we are victims. In fact, as I totally agree with you about our acceptance of ourselves and our taking ownership of our actions, this means that by studying theories (to those of us who like to do so) we are doing exactly what you so wisely suggest!


And who said "dressing makes me feel complete." Wow, do I agree with that!!!

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Originally Posted by trannie T

It is amazing how little hard information there is on causes of human behavior, especially anything relating to human sexuality. The two therories presented in this thread give a physical explanation for crossdressing. I am sure there are many therories on a behavioral basis for crossdressing. The therories are interesting but I'd really like to see some genuine scientific research.

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The theories presented give medical explanations (based on the mind, its chemistry, and even the size of certain cell clusters within GG brains v. GM brains, as well as suggesting the role of things like the adrenal gland, endocrine system, and cortisol plasma levels. Some of these things occur -- that is factual, not theory -- what is theory is the potential causation effects regarding CDing.

As far as hard information, in re human behavior, sexuality, etc., I can refer you to any one of a number of recent textbooks that will, in turn, give you lengthy research cites. And, I will provide them if you want, but dang -- if you do all that reading, we won't see you on here for months -- LOL!!!

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Originally Posted by Marina Twelve

No problem with agreeing to disagree . . .

I think the "hormone wash" leads to a CONGENITAL degree of TS that can cause a range of full blown TS or to milder cases---leaving sexuality intact while affecting only the gender idenity . . .

Obviously, things are not as simple as they seem . . .

I beleive that prenatal hormones "SET" the identity elements to a "default" and can result in both biological inapproprate settings or also an odd admixture---Hetro Male with gender a female identity for example---as opposed to the true TS with a "Homosexual" sexuality with a Female gender identity.----Of course these two types are prone to CD---but these arent the ONLY causes of CD.(my MAIN point)

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Marina, Please excuse me for being short and only referencing part of what you wrote. To the forum: Marina's post is worth reading!!!

As I am rather frazzeled (another night of burning the candle at both ends), and while I think I have contributions to be made to this discusssion, I do want to say (before retiring for 2-3 hours of sleep) that your post which I am referencing is well-written and thought-provoking!!! Keep up the excellent research and analysis!!! What you wrote was an excellent read!!! I hope you will concur that we will agree on some things, disagree on others, and be baffled by still others -- BUT we will keep the debate critically significant!!!

Barbara

As I said in the Crossdressing is a transgender activity thread:

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Originally Posted by Robin Leigh

I'd love to see a good theory of gender. But I suspect we'll need a good theory of consciousness first. :)

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The current theories are still speculative, but I think that it's important that all kinds of TG people discuss them. I'm not trying to force those who aren't interested in gender theory to participate, but this process needs our informed input, if the eventual theories are going to be acceptable to TG people.

Here's a link to that article on Animal Sexuality I mentioned earlier. From the link:

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One of the most fundamental characteristics of life is sexuality, the division into male and female. Sexual considerations influence the appearance, form, behavior and chemical makeup of nearly all multicellular organisms. Amazingly enough, scientists cannot conclusively say why sex exists. In recent years, however, animal studies have provided a great deal of information about the multifaceted components of sexuality. These studies reveal that many familiar aspects are less universal than once supposed. The work provides a new framework for understanding the relationship between males and females and a glimpse at how sex evolved.

Among vertebrate animals, sexuality is expressed in a number of ways. Males and females exhibit a wide variety of chemical, anatomic and behavioral disparities. The most obvious of the behavioral divergences lies in an animal's copulatory activity. In general, individuals having testes attempt insemination (male-typical behavior), whereas individuals having ovaries are receptive to being inseminated (female-typical behavior). Males and females often differ in other, less overt ways, such as level of activity, regulation of body weight, level of aggression and learning patterns. Some gender-specific actions are associated with, but not necessarily caused by, systematic dissimilarities in certain parts of the brain.

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This article mentions many types of TG behaviour in the animal kingdom, like fish that change sex as part of their normal lifecycle. One of my favourites is a species of snake. Some of the males in this species emit female pheromones. This entices other males to form a "mating ball" around them. The TG male then slithers out of the ball to mate with the real female. :)

Robin

Ruth,

You stated:

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"Ashleigh, when I'm not in a dress, I'm a scientist, and I know a theory when I see one. I didn't see any in that link you posted. There's some techno jargon but no coherent mechanism proposed."

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Just to clarify the usage of the word "theory" as it is used in the pages of my web site. . . . . . .

Below is the definition as it appears in Wikopedia. Regardless as to what might be the actual causes (if they are ever determined) it appears that most of us are CDs either by nurture, nature, or a combination of the two. And though theories as to the root causes are abundant, when it comes to something that might be nature oriented, the hormone wash theory would seem to be the most accurate and believable when utilizing the word 'theory' in the COMMON usage format.

1. In COMMON USAGE, people often use the word theory to signify a conjecture, an opinion, or a speculation. In this usage, a theory is not necessarily based on facts; in other words, it is not required to be consistent with true descriptions of reality. True descriptions of reality are more reflectively understood as statements that would be true independently of what people think about them.

2. In SCIENCE, a theory is a mathematical or logical explanation, or a testable model of the manner of interaction of a set of natural phenomena, capable of predicting future occurrences or observations of the same kind, and capable of being tested through experiment or otherwise falsified through empirical observation. It follows from this that for scientists "theory" and "fact" do not necessarily stand in opposition. For example, it is a fact that an apple dropped on earth has been observed to fall towards the center of the planet, and the theory which explains why the apple behaves so is the general theory of relativity.

I will agree with you concerning YOUR use of the word "THEORY" in a SCIENTIFIC mode. However, per the definition has different meanings dependent on how it is used (see the Wikapedia on line encyclopedia). Wikapedia defines the word 'theory' precisely as we have seen it referred to here on the forum in attempting to offer SPECULATION as to what might be a cause of one being a crossdresser. Although the hormone wash theory has actually been proven in the scientific realm (i.e. - there is proof that it actually does occur), whether or not it has any relation to being one of the contributing factors to a person being a crossdresser is a secondary theory of the common usage variety.

Dixie -- http://www.geocities.com/senorita_cd

Hi gurls, well I think WE CDs are made deliberately by the SYSTEM(GOD), this is in line with MY THEORY that the whole WORLD is created DELIBERATELY in the way we see it, so CDs are just part of the SYSTEM as another form of CONTROL, that is CDs are also meant to ADD COLOR to LIFE(to make life less and less boring) so i think CDing is part of HUMAN QUEST to continue to INTRIGUE MAN in finding out HIS true purpose on earth which to me is "JUST TO EXIST" and do what HE can do before HE dies, its just that simple.

While I respect your beliefs, it isn't much off an explanation to those who do not share your religion.

I think it's natural to ask 'why' and I don't see there is any harm in the asking so long as one is aware that many answers are still unknown to those questions. I suppose it's the why of asking why that matters, an attempt at greater understanding, a desperate need for validating information, a 'proof' to show to others or a search for what is 'wrong'.

Well, I for one do not need to ask why.

I just plain don't have the time to waste on wondering. I have a life to live and it's already too full. I plan on enjoying as much of life as I can and b****r the questions. I wasted hours and hours when I was young on the meaning of life when I could have been living it. No time, no time.

Stephenie

I'm kind of fond of that St...st....stu...st...st..stuttering gene theory.

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Originally Posted by Ruth

Ashleigh, when I'm not in a dress, I'm a scientist, and I know a theory when I see one. And as Karren has so wisely pointed out, we're gonna do it anyway so do we really need to know why?

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Let me put it this way. Some of us want to know and some don't. I understand that. I was, in an earlier life, a meteorologist specializing in severe storms and atmospheric optics. Believe me, in those fields, theories run amok. I guess I am like many who like to know as much as possible about as many things as possible. It's just my nature. For example, When I owned my Cessna Turbo Centurion, it wasn't necessary for me to be an A&P (airframe and power plant mechanic) and totally understand the inner workings of the electronics systems and landing gear system, etc. to fly it. However, when certain things occur, and if one flies enough they will, this extra knowledge can make a bad situation good.

I realize this example is not a crossdressing example, but there are some situations in life that we know can happen and there are those we don't have a clue as to what can happen or when. The more we are educated in CDing (and yes, we are going to do it anyway) and everything else we can be, and the more calm we are in explaining ourselves, the better many situations will be.

I am not trying to down play anyone here for their position of "I'm going to do it anyway so why learn about the reasons why?" That is in no way my intent. If that is their premise, fine with me - no problem. I just know that if there were 5 of anyone on this forum flying in my airplane with me (which I sold awhile ago :() they would all want me to know every wire, every system, every nut and bolt of that aircraft as well as the weather, the other traffic around me, the airport and approach information, alternate airports, and so on.................... instead of just only what I needed to know to get from here to there when things are going and functioning well.

Just my little :2c: worth as to where I was coming from. We are all different from many different backgrounds. That's what makes it so grand.

You are all super and I am glad to be here with all of you.

Anyway, I think all of us should go out and get a new pair of shoes today. :D

A :doll:

Very good point. If I'd known as much about crossdressing four and a half years ago as I do today I would never have made the mistake of thinking that my desires would stay away within a relationship and when I told my (prospective then) girlfriend that I had dressed in the past I wouldn't have used the words 'may return' but instead 'almost definatly will return' and that may have changed a lot of things.

Reason fro dressing up.
I enjoy it.

This is all so interesting. I am currently trying to understand it and I am still pursuing acceptance. I have a slightly different situation. When I conceived I had to use high technology including a procedure called "ICSI" whereby they inject the sperm into the egg and then put the embryo into the uterus. Anyway, studies have shown that this procedure does in fact carry with it a higher than average result of gender identification problems. For a long time I "blamed" myself for my son's issues because of these methods. It's only now occuring to me that I could possible "thank" these methods for giving me such an amazing gift. I have been so worried about the pain he might experience because of our society and lack of tolerance that I think I'm missing out on the good stuff. You are helping me to see that and I thank you from the bottom of my heart. OldMom

theres no truly nonbias theories let alone conclusive studies on anything
in the brain wiring dept

let alone this
they should just let it be

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Originally Posted by OldMom

I have been so worried about the pain he might experience because of our society and lack of tolerance that I think I'm missing out on the good stuff. You are helping me to see that and I thank you from the bottom of my heart. OldMom

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Glad that you have seen the light. The whole crossdressing issue is driven by fear. If you can get past that, you begin to wonder what all the fuss is about.
Crossdressing is not wrong, evil, perverted or unethical, it is simply a different state of being from the accepted social norms that exist at this moment in time. Ultimately it is no different from being born left handed in a world dominated by right handers. A few minor adjustments will allow you to live a happy and complete life. It is your choice to see the cup either half empty or half full.

Has it been scientifically proven, that CD TS TG or homosexual behavior is linked our gene make up or hormone levels? that they can actually effect our emotions and feelings, I'm not sure of this, maybe hormone levels can make one feel more femme, but thinking that there more to do with the body, and how it functions and grows.

I think that maybe because they can not prove where it comes from, maybe just maybe it does come from the place that requires faith to witness. I believe, that before we are born, we choose our parents, maybe even before our parents were born, that we have chosen our life lessons to go threw as well, our future mates, <reason they are called "soul mates" and why there is a belief called love at first sight> even our work careers. This also explains dajavoo, when you experience you have done this before, and hadn't. Wouldn't that just rip it!!!! there are no answers to why we x-dress, without faith, like is there a god!!! DAMN EH !!!

Wouldn't that make the biggest life lesson, accepting self for being a cross dresser, if u can do that completely, thats some big lesson learned, and WHOOOA some might big soul evolution going on

I personally go for the absent father theory,
already 2 threads, here's one :
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...ghlight=father

I am the primary care taker for my son. I am divorced and my current husband is emotionally distant a lot of time time. Thinking back, Danster's dressing began before I married though, right around the time of the divorce but that could also be coincidence. Gosh that's a hard one. I hope this theory is disproven. I don't like it. Feels like somehow I have more control than I really think I do. Mom

Here's the second thread on the same theme :
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...ghlight=father