I've now sent my concerns to them, on facebook and an email.
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I've now sent my concerns to them, on facebook and an email.
Just found this on their web site:
" A commitment to diversity
At Ross, we value and respect diversity. What matters is how a person performs on the job. That’s why we promote the hiring, acceptance, and appreciation of every individual. Our workplace is one in which personal dignity and respect for the individual is expected in all interactions with our associates and our customers." (url)
Seems their store manager didn't read that part.
Christy, i am so sorry this has happened, please keep your head held high. I would also like to wish you the best as this moves forward, from your words i can see that you are a wise and honest person, so i think whatever you decide to do will be the right thing to do.
So very nice to see the community stand up for one of our own and for justice in general.
Hopefully as an outcome from this, the movement for free rights for all will be furthered.
One thing in particular that stands out for me is that something needs to be done to make John and Jane q. Public aware of these rights. I say that because this dreadful happening seems to have been precipitated by a customer in the store that day. Something similar happened to me just a few weeks ago in a Kohls store. I was making my way to a fitting room stall and was being glared at by a woman who was with her daughter, she was waiting for her daughter outside the door. She continued to watch me and as i entered a stall, she rather nastily asked her daughter to "hurry as we need to leave now".
Yes, i was in drab but that shouldn't matter.
Maybe i'm crazy but wouldn't it help if there were signs posted simply stating that these fitting rooms are for all genders, transpersons, or something to that effect?
Signage complete with the significant laws could also be of use to the managers and SAs working in that store to point out to any complaints issued by unaccepting (narrow-minded idiots) customers.
Just my thoughts.
mj (Cassie)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Christy_M
There may not be any store video of it. I work Loss Prevention in Maryland at wally world and I recently had to remove all camera shots facing the dressing rooms because it didn't comply with state law. I'm not sure if it's the same in Washington or not, but it may be.
You did nothing wrong and there is nothing to feel bad about. But, stories like this make me even more nervous to try something like this myself. I have been shopping en femme once, last month, and plan to go again. However, I may go with my usual method of looking and buying clothes then taking them home to try on. I would rather have to return a few items than be subjected to this kind of abuse.
Christy
I think you should get some advice from an attorney. Go to the State Bar Association and find someone specializing in human rights issues. Then buy an hour of their time and get them to tell you what this is all about and what remedies you might have against the company. I am a lawyer in a different part of the world. My advice, get a advice
Why in this day and age do people take MTF dressing as a personal attack? There should be nothing wrong with trying on any clothes what so ever. I wish people would get over their old ways of thinking and just accept people how ever they come.
I feel so bad for you. I can't imagine how terrified and humiliated you were. I have been fortunate down here in PDX to have nothing but help from every SA.
Don't give up. There are a lot of people willing to help you out.
The Yelp page for this store:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/ross-lynnwood
The YellowBot page for this store:
http://www.yellowbot.com/ross-lynnwood-wa.html
CitySearch page for this store:
http://seattle.citysearch.com/profil..._for_less.html
Enjoy.
I dont know if there is anything I can say that hasn't already been said, but I am sorry you went through all that. You shouldn't have to be a spectale of like that, it's just wrong and you should not have been treated like that either, its 2010, get with the times.
You've got a lot of people's support girl, including mine (for what that is worth) Hold your head high!
They just got clobbered in public and have released this statement shown by KittyKitty. If we keep on them until they follow through on their promise in a visible way then we have accomplished something major.
I am an employment lawyer...what they did violated the law. The links to the Washington State Human Relations Commission and to the Ross Complaint site is all you need.
Hope it went well with the counsellor...hang in there. Then get even and complain.
Melanie
I actually have read all of these posts, and I am appalled at the lack of consideration and respect given by the store manager. I followed the link posted by Julie C and posted this on Yelp...
"I heard from several friends on a posting board that the manager of this store is insensitive, unprofessional, and overall and demerit to the Ross Stores. Several formal complaints have been filed with the corporate office, and this manger needs termination to her closed minded performance, and rude manners. Do not shop in this store, as you will be supporting a bigot from what I have been told. Mrs. Archie Bunker is the manager of this location --- I guess that she is also Meathead at the same time....."
Christy,
I also sent an e-mail to Ross over this, also I took an excerpt of your OP and showed it to a friend who is the store manager at my local Ross store. He immediately sent that excerpt by his corperate e-mail to their human resources dept. manager in their corperate office. A short time ago he called me at home and told me of an e-mail he got back from her. In it he was instructed to post on the office bb the policy statement and to have all personnel to read and sign it. It also stated that further complaints registered with the company would be dealt with severly. he made it clear to me that Ross is determined to make sure that nothing of this nature ever occurs in one of their stores again.
Danni
now we have to wait and see if they mean it or not
I just got back a reply as posted by KittyKitty. Good to know we made a dent.
Sorry to hear of the abuse. Did you catch a name. I am from Washington also and shop at Ross through out the state. I have never had a problem in their stores. But I will now avoid them until this is cleared up. Please keep us informed of any updates. I also like the Brulington Coat Factory. They are always polite. Hope this helps.
Going what everyone here has said and done, I feel very sure that this person (the Ross employee, the perpetrator) is going to get "performance management" about this issue. That's people power!:)
Christy,
You are a wonderful, courageous person, who has displayed incredible grace and poise in the face of an awful and unmitigated personal assault. Kudos to you for keeping your composure long enough to remove yourself from the situation, as I am sure that many of us (including myself) would have reacted in a much more undignified manner right in the middle of the store (I'm imagining lots of four letter words coming out of my mouth, followed by a flying shopping cart). My best wishes and prayers that you can quickly overcome this trauma, and return to experiencing the sparkly fun excitement that the CD/TG world has in store for each of us, don't let this stop your adventures or hinder your forward progress towards self acceptance.
As far as Ross goes, I have also sent an e-mail to them this evening expressing my extreme disdain for the egregious treatment you received in their Lynnwood store. In it I explained to them that they would be loosing my frequent business until some remediation was made directly to you (I have been going there at least once a week for years), that I could no longer recommend their company to others as I had frequently done in the past, and that I would do my part to spread word of this incident until corrective measures were taken, including them releasing some type of a public statement which asserted All patrons would be treated with dignity and respect.
There is power in numbers, especially numbers with $ signs in front of them, so I encourage other forum members who have not already contacted Ross to do so as well, and share this story with your friends and family who may not be part of this site.
I too am Sorry to hear of your terrible experience Christy,What that assistant did to you was unforgiveable,she obviously doesnt know anything of basic human decency
I must say too that you handled this situation with the utmost dignity,and that shines out above all else.I along with many others,Im sure may not have reacted as well as you did,but you have ensured that the fault lies entirely with them.
I am pretty sure the wrath of everyone on here has certainly put the fear into The headquarters of Ross,and will make them ensure that this will cannot,and will not happen again,by not staying silent,and fighting our corner we will surely make them see sense
"Do not go gentle into that good night" Dylan Thomas
Like so many others, I have just sat here and read this entire thread, start to finish, livid at how Christy was treated -- plainly the only adult, and the only lady, in the incident was Christy. I agree that we should all give the company a couple of days to respond, but I would also suggest that we not merely accept some press-release assurance that "they really do love us;" perhaps we should all, a week or so from now, test out our own local Ross stores, maybe on Saturday the 20th, all over the country, by all going shopping en femme and finding out whether they indeed do match their conduct -- all over the country -- to their promises. Even the past 24 hours or so have demonstrated how much public pressure can be generated, starting from zero. Let's wait and watch!
Christy unfortunately gets to be A "Pioneer," and as she said it's probably more than a little unsettling to be compared with Rosa Parks. But, here's The Good News! Judging from subsequent Postings, Ross has certainly "gotten The Message!" You all can be assured, that The CEO, Everyone in Legal, virtually all of The V.P's in Marketing and Public Relations already know about this incident. Very soon, all of The Board Members, and just about all The Worker Bee's are going to be aware of what's happened. Even if they don't directly tell The S.A.'s about The Specifics of This Incident, can't you imagine they will start asking questions when they are asked to sign Directives aimed at assuring that Customers don't face discrimination! Then The Corporate Grapevine will go to work!
Even better, The Retail Business is very incestuous. People move around a lot, people send E Mails, people have Cocktail Conversations. This Incident may not get an Article in "Retailing News," but other Companies are going to hear about it over The Next Few Weeks. Try to imagine The Corporate Conversations: "Hey, did you hear what happened at Ross last week?" "Man, did they handle it badly, or what?" Then....other stores and corporations start to make their own plans and policies in case they have to deal with the same eventualities. That's how "Big Change" comes from much smaller incidents.
See....you all have more power than you can imagine. We can "effect" things. Now, we have to learn to always use That Power wisely.
Peace and Love, Joanie
Just got caught up on your experience and it's good to see that corporate is paying attention to what its managers are doing. Its great to see all those who've responded to corporate have made a difference. Way to go everyone.
We in the crossdressing community should make every effort to prove any bad stereotypes wrong. Had she thrown a fit the person and witnesses would have just said ejecting her was justified and put a black mark on the entire crossdressing community. Definitely Kudos to her for hanging the cloths up properly and walking out with her head held high in a dignified manor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mia Tao
Also, I hope our anger is not misplaced permanently. Currently, everyone is doing exactly what needs to be done as the store is responsible for it's employees. We can't always control what our employees do at the moment. If they do nothing to the employee, or back up her actions then further actions should be taken from our community to back up a member. If they fire the manager, make an apology to the offended person, and statement reaffirming their acceptance of all persons using their stores, then what? I don't know what else they could do to make amends for an employee's bad actions.
I hate that this happened, but it since it already has, I hope the remainder of the story is our rights are reaffirmed and a few companies take notice that it is not good to offend your customers. I mostly hope you get past this, recognize it for bigoted actions of a closed minded individual, and become a stronger more beautiful person for it.
I hope you are feeling better. You look great in your avatar, and I am sure there are many stress free shopping trips in your future. Take care and always know you have a safe and supportive place here. :hugs:
I completely agree with this. Using this power wisely is a very important thing. There is no utility in keeping to clobber them, but rather make this a (wait for it, I apologize in advance) teachable moment. If we want long term change we have to provide the opportunity for Ross to change and then have it recognized by us. The value of them actually introducing and re-emphasizing their diversity policy with a specific reference to transgender people is huge. It desensitizes part of our environment to us which is so important. And that is what this unfortunate event could really be good for. We need to keep writing to them until some substantive response comes back. Then when we see a difference we need to commend them and let them know that their reaction was appropriate and no reservation against them remain.Quote:
Originally Posted by sterling12
I agree - swamp them with more comments and complaints! Whoever made the decision to delete has no clue about PR. Think of all those who've seen the comments and are now wondering where theyve gone - apart from us! All they need to do is issue an apology and follow it up then ast least people will see them taking action - more positive than deleting commentsQuote:
Originally Posted by Rianna Humble
The thing is, I doubt they'll make any public apology. It's pretty simple. To do so is to expose them to some serious consequences in a lawsuit. The right thing to do is to admit they were utterly, completely wrong. But, companies are run by $$$. To admit wrongdoing would be to throw away a significant chunk of money. Their lawyers are almost definitely telling them to publicly shut up about this, and keep it that way, until (at least) it is certain a lawsuit isn't going to be filed, or a lawsuit has completed.
Their postings on their facebook profile are exactly in line with that. No admittance of wrondoing, an abstract stance on their policy, and they are 'investigating'. You will NOT get anything more from them.
That, to me, is why a lawsuit is so important here. All they've done so far is to attempt damage control. They're terrified of an expanded class action lawsuit, which is why they're having their employees sign the notice (if they're telling the truth about that, and it's not just one store). This is how corporations work. Look at how Toyota handled the mass recall; did everything they could to protect their pile of cash. There's thousands of other examples. Ross will act no differently. Count on it.
There will be no public apology. There will be no public admittance of wrongdoing.
I just received an e-mail from their customer service representative with the same canned response from their Facebook post. I am reviewing the Washington RCW and trying to detremine if their is anyway to make this complaint without outing myself to my job, my friends and even my wife and kids friends and family. These issues all weigh heavily on how I proceed. I can't put my family through this without damaging them or my relationship with them. They shouldn't have to carry my cross and I would never want them to have to answer for my life. I will find an attorney in the next few days and and find out what my options are.
I am humbled in the presence of giants here. You are all so beautiful in your help and support of me and I just want to live up to the hope you have given me through this ordeal. You have given me courage and have made my voice so much louder than it would have been had I been alone throughout these past few days. I have managed to stop the uncotrollable sobbing and breakdowns and have been able to bury these emotions enough to actually return to work. Although, I am sitting here on the forum instead of working. Tomorrow should be a better day.
Thank you so much for all the support. It is truly overwhelming the love and friendship I feel I have received. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. I wish I will be able to give back as much as has been given to me.
With much love and admiration,
Christy
Sigh. Well, this is preciesly why we all here need to bear down on Ross even harder than we already have. Their continued response to this is predictable (see my earlier posts) but unacceptable.Quote:
Originally Posted by Christy_M
This is precisely what you should do. Many lawyers offer a 1/2 hour consultation for free. It's good business for them, as they can get a shot at representing cases where they can make $$$. This is just such a case. Not sure what the punitive limits are in Washington, but I imagine it would be substantial. That should make a lawyer quite interested. A lawyer can also advise you as to how to proceed in such a way to keep yourself anonymous in these proceedings.Quote:
Originally Posted by Christy_M
This sort of psychological damage is precisely why Ross needs to be brought to the table over this. A little "we're investigating" message is a continued insult and slap in the face.Quote:
Originally Posted by Christy_M
Again, just imagine for a moment what their response would be if instead of a transgendered person being in the middle of this, it was a black woman that had been thrown out. They wouldn't be "investigating". They're getting away with this because transgendered people are an extreme minority that they think most people won't care two rips if they are discriminated against. Hate is hate, no matter from what quarter it comes, or towards what quarter it is given. It is the same tyrannical principle.
What they did was wrong on so many levels. They elevated a totally non threatening situation to something just short of a bomb threat. They drew attention to you in a negative way. And, ironically enough, they drew a lot of negative publicity to their own store. Bad karma for them, Kristy. Two thumbs up for you, for walking out with your head up high. And a hug for comfort.
I've just posted to their facebook page, noting the parallel to throwing a black woman out of their store for being black.
I continue my policy of following up sycophantic prais with a question about their refusal to condemn unlawful discrimination.
I just made an internet request for assistance from the ACLU of Washington. Their site says it could take 3 to 6 weeks to get back to me. I will also try to find an attorney who specializes in human/civil rights issues. As the day progresses, my emotions are spinning. hurt, disgust, anger, shame, embarassment, et al. I don't want to make emotional decisions on this and I am not sure where that line gets drawn. Wrong is wrong and so many people not directly involved can see this maybe a little clearer than I. If I had to state a desired outcome form this, acceptance - both personal and community acceptance. Is this really the issue that brings that on? how long were laws in place for racial equality and yet we still struggle with it throughout the country. I want to take this step for all of us but I am certainly scared of what this will do to my life. As I consider this I hit the send button on the ACLU request knowing it is a step I cannot take back. maybe this ball won't be as big as it already seems...even if it is, I won't stop it from rolling where it needs to go.
don't let that beep beep stop you. I will never set foot in a ross again
Way to go Christy. I support your decision to at least make the inquiry and move forward how ever you choose. I'm not sure if acceptance of the transgendered lifestyle is the root of this issue as is discrimination. You were clearly discriminated against and humiliated in one of most egregous ways I have ever seen. I'm sure if we turned the clock back a generation or two, some of the minorities would have similar stories. I'll mention this again...it's 2010 for heanens sake. Stay strong as you can be assured there are plenty of us that support you.
Hey I keep reading about a response from Ross as posted by kittykitty but can't seem to find it. What was Ross's response? I want to know [will probably be mad after reading it though]..
Just wanted to update on my email reply from Ross:
I removed the numbers just to be respectfulQuote:
Dear Stephanie:
Thank you for your email.
At Ross Dress for Less, we take all of our customers’ shopping experiences very seriously.
We have an inclusive policy and value and respect all of our customers. We are investigating the incident you referred to and following up with the staff member.
We will also be sending a reminder to all of our stores reiterating this policy.
If you have additional questions or concerns, we encourage you to contact a Ross Customer Service representative at xxx-xxx-xxxx
Kind Regards,
Valorie Wilkinson
Customer Service
Oh and the response kittkitty was referring to is na email response form the facebook page of Ross.
Edit: Mandy, I think never setting foot into a Ross again is a tad harsh. this seems to be one incident that, while horrible and they should be sued for allowing someone like that to work for them, is not indicative of Ross as a whole.
Here is my email that I sent them:
[SIZE=5]Ross Dress For Less[/SIZE]
18520 33rd Avenue W # A, Lynnwood, WA 98037-4726 (425) 771-0607 ()
Throwing a Transgendered person out of the store because they wanted to try on clothes is a terrible event. This manager made matters much worse by the way it was handled. I run a group of over 150 transgendered persons in Denver and we will boycott your stores buying both our female and male clothes there unless this problem is resolved. I have shopped in your store in Fort Collins was treated with absolute respect but this store apparently needs some training to handle Transgendered persons. I hope that this gets corrected without the need of telling others in other cities about your companies policy of intolerance. That policy will result in people not shopping with your stores all across the country.
Michelle Tayloe
I got the same response as Stephanie Anne. Maybe they understand now that this issue was mishandled and has the power to disrupt their company nationwide.
I hope you get at least an apology from them, but I wouldn't hold your breath. At the very least, you can take comfort that the manager was made to feel very uncomfortable by all of the attention that occured. It probably will cost them a pay raise or promotion.
Stephanie Anne,
Your response appears identical to my response except mine was from the Customer Service Manager.
Dear Christy,
Thank you for your email. At Ross Dress for Less, we take all of our
customers' shopping experiences very seriously.
We have an inclusive policy and value and respect all of our customers.
We are investigating this incident referred to and following up with the
staff member.
We will also be sending a reminder to all of our stores reiterating this
policy.
If you have additional questions or concerns, we encourage you to
contact a Ross Customer Service representative.
Kind Regards,
Kerry Gonzalez
Manager of Customer Service
Store Operations
They have obviously given their team a script which any good legal department would draft and recommend. Here is the FB post by Ross
Ross Dress for Less: We appreciate the feedback of our Ross Stores Facebook audience. Ross Stores takes our customers’ shopping experience very seriously. We have an inclusive policy and value and respect all of our customers. We are investigating this incident and following up with the staff member. We will also be sending a reminder to all of our stores reiterating this policy. We encourage customers who have questions or concerns to contact Ross Customer Service.
Does anyone remember the term circling the wagons? This is clearly the Ross strategy right now. You really can't blame them for trying to minimize exposure and still try to calm the affected/disgruntled parties. I have to admit, up until Tuesday, I was pretty gruntled...
I found some interesting reading about Ross and a little insight into their corporate culture.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/retail/ross.html
It's all about the money here folks, pure and simple. Until they are hit in the bottom line there will be little to sway how they do business.
Here's a wikipedia link about Ross.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ross_Dress_For_Less
I disagree with whoever said a boycott is too harsh. The company has $6.5 billion -- yes billion -- in revenue in 2009 and $300 million in net income. It will sweep this horrible incident under the rug. And run Christy over with lawyers. I say hit them as hard as we can in their pocketbook! This incident should be raised at all annual tg/ts/tv conferences and we should all stand united to support Christy.
Christy I am appalled by what I have read , the treatment you received was completely uncalled for , there response is in my opinion unsatisfactory and I will be sending my own e-mail momentarily . You have my support and respect , keep your head high you are a lovely woman .
You know they can delete all the posts they want on their Facebook page, but they can't touch any posts on somebody elses page. Something along the lines of Trans Community Against Ross Dress For Less.
Perhaps you all saw the news story about a Kalamazoo college student that started his own page against a local tow company for ripping him off. That page helped get things rolling with the local gov, and in turn that tow company lost their contract with the local gov.
Christy,
I am SO sorry for what happened to you. This is terrible and as a lawyer I would love to help you but I am just coming to terms with my own identity and am not ready to step forward yet. I can give you some advice though. That Washington State law may be enforceable by the State's Attorney General, probably the Civil Rights Division or something to that effect. You may want to contact them also but I fully understand your position and unfortunately no client means no case. E-mail is great but if you really want an answer you will have to write a letter. I would demand a formal appology from that store manager. I think the real solution here is for group action from some of the TG groups against Ross. Without an individual lawsuit, political pressure needs to be brought to bear.
Keep your head high.
Debby
I just wanted to add in my support, while I do not live in the US, this isnt an attitude thats limited by oceans im sure. I was very shocked to read your story, and this is not a way you would ever dream of being treated by staff in a store.
I really hope you get some form of justice of of this. I also think you did very well how you coped with the situation at the time.
I got the same stock reply as everyone else but mine had the name Valorie Wilson.
I think that they have stopped deleting negative comments from their page as they have seen it only brings more.
Living across the pond, I cannot hit them directly in their cash registers so I'll keep up the pressure by following up on sycophantic postings on their facebook page.
I'm not in the U.S., either, and there isn't a Ross in the state I'm next to (MI), but I wish there were just so I could raise a little hell there, myself. I am SOOO pissed on your behalf, Christy.
Christy, it sounds like you are suffering from severe emotional trauma resulting from your horrible, damaging and unfair treatment. Ross' response is TOTALLY inadequate; they are not even offering a conditional apology (i.e. "if you were treated badly, then we apologize"), probably because they don't want ANY appearance of guilt. As they pretty much are trying to stall and do nothing (just smile and nod until the crossdresers go away), they need to be hit in the wallet.
Everybody, just repeat after me:
Boycott.
Boycott, boycott, boycott.
BOYCOTT!
I have also had difficulty at Ross Dress for Less in the DFW area. I posted it in another thread, so, won't go into it here. And, it was nowhere near as traumatic as what you've described. Wow! How terribly humiliating!
I agree that boycotting their stores is entirely appropriate. It's apparent from these multiple incidents that this lack of respect is "systemic." Not only don't they support a respectful treatment philosophy, but, their internal promotional practices put unqualified people into authoritative positions. Not a good combination.
I have visited their stores in the past, but, won't do so going forward. I hope we will all consider the same. Vote with your feet.
I don't think a boycott by CDers is going to have an effect on the company. In fact, it will solve their "problem" of having CDers trying on clothes in their dressing rooms.Quote:
Originally Posted by jennifer1965
Far better would be for CDers to visit their stores in great numbers on busy shopping days and make a point of trying on clothes. Going in pairs or groups would make a statement. We don't have to buy, just try them on. OK buy something small just to stay legit.
I've never been in a Ross store, but wouldn't making all the dressing rooms "non-gender specific" pretty much solve their "problem" ?
Just put all the dressing rooms in one place with individual locks on the doors.