I want the CD's w/ partners to think about this, what IF?

Since i was probably the first person to use the word negative in the thread i will post again. I am a TS and im Single so My opinion on the thread question itself is pointless and with that said i probably should not have posted at all , I felt that comparison was unfair or a misunderstanding of labels (possibly on my behalf) i personally understand it that CD is not a fetish but TV is. I asked why not use F2M to M2F instead. To wich i got no reply from the OP.

Even if i disagreed on the terms of the comparison it was never my intention to turn this into GG vs CD argument.

<3 Nicole

soooooo, we CD's get damned for 'hiding' ourselves from our spouse, but then we are brought to task for not empathizing with our spouses reaction to our revelations.

Can any CD or TG tell me if the reason they concealed was because they wished to cause a problem with their SO, or to prevent one? Or that they came out to their wife without one moments thought to what she might feel?

Can ANY CDer or TG state that they have given no thought to the reactions, feelings and emotional turmoil of their SO? Of how this would affect their relationship?

Of course the GG's on this forum, for the most part, have a positive or at least accepting stance regarding the whole issue, elsewise they wouldn't be here.

Perhaps I'm being oversensitive, or just dense, but I cannot help but feel that we are somehow being criticized whatever decision we (as a group) make. It just seems that the whole concept of pushing us out of a comfort zone, and empathizing with our spouse assumes that we ARE in a comfort zone, and that we DON'T consider how our spouse will react.

Perhaps there are a few who have a 'I-don't-care-what-she-thinks-this-is-me" attitude, but from what I've read on these boards, they would be the very small minority.

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Originally Posted by tekla west

One of the points here is to get people to try to understand what a sudden revelation might be like from the other point of view.

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I think we all can agree on sudden revelations. If they have a positive content, they are a surprise. If they have a problematic content it causes always a shock.
That's trivial.

Quote:

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And almost no-one wrote about the aspect of that person concealing such a thing from their lover for so long a time. Which - as any reading of the posts will tell you - is problem number one for a lot of the SOs.

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I agree, but as you wrote they have good reasons for it.

For me the key question is.

Is CDing or TG a perversion (in the negative meaning of the word) as most SOs might see it (at least at first.), or is it more kind of a lifestyle ?

This question hasn't been answered yet, but the answer is curcial to solve the problem.
Me, and as I read it from most of the members here, see it as a lifestyle. As said, our SOs, at least at first, see it more as a perversion.

That is a bad basis for discussion, understanding, and learning (see this thread). Every attempt of empathy from both sides will fail, if this can't be sorted out.

I am so conservative that I would act different if I am actually a pervert (Am I ?).
Probably my ex would have handled it better if she would have seen it as a kind of a lifstyle.
And if the both of us would have seen it from the same perspective (this way or that way) we pobably would have found together a way to deal with it and maybe still would be a couple.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bgirl

I agree that this thread has an uncomfortable feel about it.
It doesn't seem to have a point, just pissy.

Why you try to use the comparison technique your using here is quite literally a load of crap.

Wht not use plain english and ask how we would feel if the situation was reversed?

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For the average woman to find out her husband is a CD is mind blowing.

Now if we just say to a CD... 'what if the situation is reversed?' its not so mindblowing cuz you know and understand the whole CD/gender thing.

So it has to be something that you don't do yourself. Something that's out of your realm of experience and something that you would never in a million years have thought your wife.. the women you thought you KNEW would be doing.

Its easy to have empathy for someone who has a similar need to ours. How about having empathy for and still loving, desiring, and wanting to share your life with someone who's blown your whole image of them out of the water?

And also its not about someone being wacky.. having purple hair does not equate to this.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ~Kitty GG~

How about having empathy for and still loving, desiring, and wanting to share your life with someone who's blown your whole image of them out of the water?

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

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That's how I took this excercise, once I realized the diaper wearing thing actually existed, the sheer revulsion I felt was overwhelming, the DB forum, the online diaper store, all looked the same as our forums and TG friendly web sites, which drove home that I'm not any differnt, only in my prefered form of whatever you want to call it now, I no longer care. Then to realize this must have been the way my wife felt. I'm totally crushed and horrified to think I put my wife thru what I felt. I knew it was bad, but had no idea until now how bad it really is. This debate about telling and not telling, lies and feelings of betrayal has become pointless to me. Once this hit me, to see your life wiped away, that's all that was left, the feeling of betrayal after 22 years of marriage. I don't know what I would do. Right now I feel ashamed. My wife will home from work soon, I'm going to discuss this with her tonight. I don't even want to look at a dress right now, I'm just gonna pack all my crap away, I don't even want to see it.

Maria,
I don't want anyone to feel bad but just to feel what their SO's might feel. I think you did get a taste of that in my 'exercise' or whatever you want to call it. However, I hope it doesn't lead you to deny who you are by packing up your stuff. Though I think that the acceptance of oneself waxes and wanes and is a long process.
Hugs
Kew

You are so cute!

I still think it's a stretch. I think maybe your premises are wrong, or you have some internal prejudices that make you think this is a valid comparison. I don't understand how you can compare the shock of a woman finding out her husband is a crossdresser to the shock of someone finding out their spouse likes to play baby. To me, they are not the same. I think you are equating clothes and behaviours to someone's internal gender conflicts.

In this sense, I think that you might as well have compared us to people who want be monkeys, or have sex with cars, or a host of other proclivities. In this comparison, you're calling us a proclivity. That, is what is offending some here.

But, it's your comparison, so I'll play. Nope, couldn't accept it. And if my spouse wants to have sex with barnyard animals, can't accept that either. :tongueout

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I still think it's a stretch. I think maybe your premises are wrong, or you have some internal prejudices that make you think this is a valid comparison.

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I wasn't making "comparisons"

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I don't understand how you can compare the shock of a woman finding out her husband is a crossdresser to the shock of someone finding out their spouse likes to play baby.

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Shock is shock, regardless of the catalyst. I was "[SIZE=3] empathizing[/SIZE] " with my wife.

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To me, they are not the same. I think you are equating clothes and behaviours to someone's internal gender conflicts.

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Hmmm talk about "internal predjudices" .

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In this sense, I think that you might as well have compared us to people who want be monkeys, or have sex with cars, or a host of other proclivities. In this comparison, you're calling us a proclivity.

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Actually I was only refering to myself, but hey, if the show fits......

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That, is what is offending some here.

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I wonder who those "some" are :tongueout

I belive, as indicated clearly in the topic header, that those remarks were directed to Kewt and not you. At her posts, not yours.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tekla west

I belive, as indicated clearly in the topic header, that those remarks were directed to Kewt and not you. At her posts, not yours.

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In either case I consider my "perceptions" valid in this "public forum" for the benefit of those who don't PM.

One thing that struck home with me. Was a comment made in a book I did read on the subject. About a Women finding out about there Husbands CDing. It was something like " What about the dreams the Wife had when she was 12, of getting married to a certain type man". It did not say Cross Dresser. It said Man. So at that point I did step back and re-evaluate my life with my wife. I thought that over alot!!!! Was I being fair to her, and her dreams being this way? Was I being a little selfish??? So Now I spend time in drab more around her. Rather than dressed. I got married to be married, not to just loose her down the line.

That said though, If she did have a certain fetish thing going on. Like being an adult baby. Would she think the same? Then do the same for me? Dress and act less like a baby around me? I think not. She'd tell me " deal with it"... :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=~Kitty GG~;526169]

And also its not about someone being wacky.. having purple hair does not equate to this.


No it's not just about being wacky. It's about self exploration and expression, particularlly where these challenge personal and social assumptions of behaviour. It would be great if we could all have equal freedom in these areas rather than allowing greater latitudes of behaviour to some groups than others.

I think you would find that the groups that have such freedom were not handed their rights on a platter. They did not get them because society was feeling particularly benevolent that day. They got them by fighting for them, organizing for them, getting out in the street and yes, getting in people's faces too.

In many cases people were mocked, scorned, humiliated. In the extreame they were put in jail, beaten, their houses and churches bombed. People died. That is true of African-Americans, and the gay movement also. Its true for unions, for farm-workers, and for women. Ain't no easy walk to freedom as the old spiritual says.

Or, in the case of the counterculture, you can do it by abandoning most of what society was offering in exchange for conformity - by doing without.

Given that, to paraphrase JFK, ask not what your movement can do for you, ask what you can do for your movement. Or as we say in show-biz "What have you done for us lately?"

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Originally Posted by tekla west

Given that, to paraphrase JFK, ask not what your movement can do for you, ask what you can do for your movement. Or as we say in show-biz "What have you done for us lately?"

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Wouldn't it be a good idea to clarify first for what kind of movement we get involved with.

Emancipation of feminine traits ? (--> to live openly and free)

Alternative life-style ? (--> to live more in a ghetto-like surroundings and events)

or

Sexual deviation ? (--> better to stay in the closet)


I'd really like to know, before I make a fool of myself if I act based on the wrong assumption.

This is an interesting question. And yes, one can make all sorts of arguments that it's not a one to one metaphor, and CDing is more acceptable blah, blah, but that's not really the point, if I'm understanding KewTnCurvy correctly.

I have to admit, my first thought was: "EWWWWWW!" It's a pretty disturbing image. Kind of makes me shudder.

But then thinking about it more, I realized something else. But just like in CDing, infantalism is probably more than 'just clothes' to some people. It's likely a sign of deeper personality issues. Just at a guess, I'd say someone who's trying to get in touch with the part of themselves that is utterly selfish, needy, and helpless. If I'm right about that, and 'diapering' (my own term, but seems to fit) was my partner's way of expressing those feelings -- as CDing is, in my case -- and if it actually allowed her to function as the responsible, mature, and sympathetic human being that I love on a day to day basis... then I'd learn to cope.

In the end, I don't think I could participate in it. After two kids, and five straight years of changing diapers between the two of them, I don't think I could ever find anything remotely sexual about it. But if that's what my wife needed to do, on her own? Then, I think, over time, I could be supportive of her needs, and love her, in spite of it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maria2004

Right now I feel ashamed. My wife will home from work soon, I'm going to discuss this with her tonight. I don't even want to look at a dress right now, I'm just gonna pack all my crap away, I don't even want to see it.

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oh please don't feel ashamed. you are who you are and there's nothing wrong with that. :hugs:

I saw this thread as an exercise in empathy.. to see how shocking, confronting, and scarey it can be to learn things about a spouse late in the game.

I find it interesting that so many are horrified at being compared like this. why is it so disgusting? and if someone feels so disgusted by it why can't they understand that cding would horrify others?

the baby scene isn't hurting anyone. it does equate in many ways with cding. and its a rather common thing statistically. so why is so repulsive?

If that was the case in our life I'd have had to look into it the same way I did with the cding and the ts issues. figure out if this was something that fit in my life. and figure out what priority my spouse was to me. But I do think that it would have been about the same as far as shock and as to how it made me re-evaluate the person. often they compare a spouse finding out about cding to grieving over the loss of the person they married. so its not just some minor thing like a hairstyle change or choosing a different but still socially acceptable style of dress.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

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Originally Posted by ~Kitty GG~

I find it interesting that so many are horrified at being compared like this. why is it so disgusting? and if someone feels so disgusted by it why can't they understand that cding would horrify others?

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From my point of view it's not being horrified by infantilism, I am horrified 'cause I think the initial question is based on the wrong assumption.

In the somewhat same light I see the "horrified" reaction by GGs on the classical phrase for a CDs apology: "Women in pants are crossdressing". This phrase also is based on a wrong assumption but it obviously is something to fear. Why ?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marla S

From my point of view it's not being horrified by infantilism, I am horrified 'cause I think the initial question is based on the wrong assumption.

In the somewhat same light I see the "horrified" reaction by GGs on the classical phrase for a CDs apology: "Women in pants are crossdressing". This phrase also is based on a wrong assumption but it obviously is something to fear. Why ?

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The initial question is designed to make you think about the emotions you would go through, if presented by a similar set of circumstances, to that which Wives/ SO's go through when told they are partnered to a crossdresser.

Infantilism is only an example of what it could be.

Just a question!
Do I have to Change HER?

A good thread and to lengthy for me to now read all responses. But Yes I told my wife afew years into marriage. And I wish I never had.

If she she came to me and said let's play! I will be Baby and you can be Mommy. HMMM

But yes I would be feeling much of the same things that my thought about me and still thinks about me. What else is hiding in there. Will this be a permanent thing. Just a fetish or lifestyle? The list goes on and on.

Would I stay, Would I still love her and accept. Most likely. If anything I would attempt to understand.

I can not imagine my wife ever wanting to do this adult baby scene, but that is not the question we were asked to discuss.

To answer as directly as I can, if I came home to hear my wife confess that she likes to wear diapers and sometimes act like a baby, I would...

How would I feel? I would feel shocked at first because we have been married a long time and I am just now learning about this very important part of her make up. I would feel somewhat confused and maybe hurt that she waited until now to tell me about something so important to her. I would feel anger.

How might I react? I would keep my mouth shut and listen, for hours, days, weeks or as long as necessary to understand. I would only ask questions for clarification at first. I would want to fully understand why she likes this, what need is being met by doing this, and what she is seeking in dressing and acting like a baby. (i.e. does she want to be a baby all the time or just on occasion, does she want to wear diapers to bed? Is there an erotic component to this? etc. )

Would I truly be able to accept her? Oh yes, no question about accepting her. That is not even a passing thought. She has set the ultimate example for me to follow in that she totally accepts me with my strong need to look, feel, and act feminine on occasion. How could I possibly consider not giving her that same love and devotion in return. There is no reason other than adultry that I would ever not continue to love and accept her as she is, with or without her diapers.

Would Ithink it weird? Would it repulse me? Yes, I would think it was weird, initially. I thought it was weird when I read about it in this post. But on further examinination and after reading about AB, DL, and the various needs of people in to this scene, I would likely stop thinking that it is weird once I understook fully what is means to my wife.

The word "weird" is an unkind word for "can't relate" in my view. I just have difficulty thinking that anything that is part of my wife or anything that she needs can be weird. I have to much love and devotion for her to think that way. My goal would be to understand, to try to relate to her as much as possible, and give her the love, attention, and acceptance that she deserves from the one who loves and accepts her most....as she is...with her need for diapers and somethings to act like a baby.

I'd be SHOCKED. But only because my wife is a pretty straight-laced, and normal (by society's standards) woman. I would definitely try to understand her reasons for doing it though, as she always has with mine. And if I had a proclivity for that type of adventurism...I most likely would join in on it with her...but certainly NOT because I am WEIRD or anything like that you must understand.:devil::D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KewTnCurvy GG

Yes, I'm aware of that Tiffany. Again, this is an exercise in EMPATHY for those who are willing to participate. I thought perhaps some CD's may get a sense of what their partners might go through upon discovering their CD partner's CD'ing.
Kew

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How can you empathise with someone who wants to wear nappies when you dont wear nappies yourself, the whole thing about empathy is putting yourself in that position, i can't do that when it hasnt happened, if my girlfriend told me she was a crossdresser i could empathise as i am, this whole stanislavski s**te is too much, yeah if my g/f wanted to wear a nappie and go out to do the garden she could, so what! who gives a s**t what anyone else thinks, she accepts me I accept her,

this thread seems to me is just like saying ok you wear womens clothes step outside yourself and say what would you do if you came home and found your other half in bed with a rattle snake??? or some other lewd act, there are ppl with a fetish for watching another have a dump on a glass table and all that, there are ppl out there who get off on allsorts, why did you give an excercise in EMPATHY regarding babys nappies, surely it would have been more suited to say what you say if you came home and your other half told you she likes to flatten her chest and wear a beard and dress like a man of a night time, I could show all the EMPATHY in the world for that one, why? cause I am in that position reversed.
seems to me the nappie thing was purely for shock value and it is a difficult one for anyone to answer not just a cd.
pointless really,

sorry but that was my tuppence.

:love:

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Originally Posted by NighttimeGirl

How can you empathise with someone who wants to wear nappies when you dont wear nappies yourselfall

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that's what it means to empathize..

Empathy: the action of understanding, being aware of, being sensitive to, and vicariously experiencing the feelings, thoughts, and experience of another of either the past or present without having the feelings, thoughts, and experience fully communicated in an objectively explicit manner; also : the capacity for empathy

Its not about sharing the actual experience. Its about putting yourself in the others shoes.

The secret need/behaviour could be anything. But for this exercise its important that its NOT cross dressing because the members of this forum are too familiar with cross dressing and therefore don't require empathy to relate to it.

Love & Hugs
~Kitty~

an emotional feeling of identification (EMPATHY)


I still can't identify with it,

Im sorry but i know what it means ~

Some of the posts in this thread are unbelievable!!!! How can you not empathise with those different to you?? You may find the comparison repulsive, but there are those who find crossdressing repulsive, freaky, weird etc.... You are missing the whole point of Kews post :rolleyes: We have a member on this board who is an adult baby, I'm sure she will be so glad to have read what you think about her in this thread. :Pfft:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Shelly_P

The initial question is designed to make you think about the emotions you would go through, if presented by a similar set of circumstances, to that which Wives/ SO's go through when told they are partnered to a crossdresser.

Infantilism is only an example of what it could be.

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I am well aware of that, and I gave a few other examples that may have drastic impacts on a relationship, or how to arrange a life with challenges like this.
I also have every understanding for the shock if the CDing is revealed maybe long after marriage. I also see (and read in this forum) that after the outing TG folks sometimes is so excited that they loose sight and sense of proportion. Which makes it even harder for their SOs to deal with it.

BUT, for me infantilism is a destructive example as it is, correct me if I am wrong, at first associated with a sexual (pervert) load (true or not).
In this sense infantilism is indeed comparable to CDing, as CDing also at first is a associated with a sexual (pervert) load, and therefor the initial question seems to be legitime.

Nevertheless, IMHO CDing (TG) isn't primary of sexual intention (how sexual (pervert) a 4-6 year old can be ?), but it is exactly this assumed sexual load that causes a great part of the trouble our SOs have to face.

In this sense I find the initial question ("exercise") inappropriate and destructive (yes, and in a certain way offending).
IMHO it would be far more easy for our SOs (as well as for some of the TG folks) to deal with the non-deniable erotic (sexual) aspect of CDing too, if it would be seen as a secondary effect, which might even loose importance, if the primary reason is allowed to be unwrapped.

I dont have an opinion on ppl who wear nappies, all I was saying was i couldnt identify, if that is wrong then wrong I am.

I'm gettin out of this thread now whilst I still got my parachute, wait too late........ plunge

I apologise for missing the boat,

no I don't actually, I missed the boat because I never brought a ticket

:love:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marla S

I am well aware of that, and I gave a few other examples that may have drastic impacts on a relationship, or how to arrange a life with challenges like this.
I also have every understanding for the shock if the CDing is revealed maybe long after marriage. I also see (and read in this forum) that after the outing TG folks sometimes is so excited that they loose sight and sense of proportion. Which makes it even harder for their SOs to deal with it.

BUT, for me infantilism is a destructive example as it is, correct me if I am wrong, at first associated with a sexual (pervert) load (true or not).
In this sense infantilism is indeed comparable to CDing, as CDing also at first is a associated with a sexual (pervert) load, and therefor the initial question seems to be legitime.

Nevertheless, IMHO CDing (TG) isn't primary of sexual intention (how sexual (pervert) a 4-6 year old can be ?), but it is exactly this assumed sexual load that causes a great part of the trouble our SOs have to face.

In this sense I find the initial question ("exercise") inappropriate and destructive (yes, and in a certain way offending).
IMHO it would be far more easy for our SOs (as well as for some of the TG folks) to deal with the non-deniable erotic (sexual) aspect of CDing too, if it would be seen as a secondary effect, which might even loose importance, if the primary reason is allowed to be unwrapped.

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No offense Marla...but I have read and reread this post about 5 times and I STILL can't figure out what you are talking about here. Maybe it's just that I'm not cerebral enough...but what exactly are you trying to say???:strugglin

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Originally Posted by ChristineRenee

Maybe it's just that I'm not cerebral enough...

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No. Maybe my English is not good enough, or more gravely my thoughts are a bit weird.

My premise 1 (simplified) is: Transgenderism (including CDing) is not of sexual and/or fetish-like nature.
Premise 2: In the view of the public transgenderism is of sexual and/or fetish-like nature, including our SOs that are usually struck by this matter like the bold from the blue sky.
Premise 3: Infantilism is associated by the public as of sexual and/or fetish-like nature.

So, making an "exercise" which compares premise 2 and 3 may be a funny game, but can't give a fruitfull result as it is not related to premise 1, the main subject.

As this comparison contributes to cement the IMO wrong view from premise 2 (can't say much about 3), a comparison like this is destructive in order to solve the real problems TG folks and their SOs have to face.

Though also not exactly the same category*, I think a more valid "exercise" would be a comparison between transgenderism and a handicap. Like "How you would feel if your SO suddenly becomes handicapped (i.e. by an accident)?

@offending. If you are positive about that being a CD/TG is a way of thinking and feeling in every aspect of your life, one may see it as offending, if this is (as I see the comparison) reduced to the sexual aspect. IMO it doesn't help our SOs as well as us. (maybe I am a bit over-reacting here)

I doubt that I am more clear now, but I tried :sad:

*I like comparisons a lot, but never ever in all of the years thinking about my CDing found one that really fits.

The author of this thread has made her point(very good, Kew!), and the point is that many of you are as intolerant of other lifestyles as those you cry about being intolerant of yours.

The point of this exercise, if I may be so bold to speak for Kew, is to make you think. How is someone's desire to wear a diaper, or any other article of clothing, any different than our desire to wear clothing designed for the opposite sex -- at least to the eyes of an outsider? Some of you are taking this personally, but to another person who doesn't crossdress, they don't see such a difference -- adult babies and crossdressers all wear clothing not acceptable to a large segment of society. How is our choice of what to wear any better than another persons? We may not understand their desire or need, but we should be a bit more willing to accept it and them.

the point has proven we are all inheritantly conditioned too just as the rest of society is, but dont forget I have spent most of my life trying to fit into the world that was created for me by the powers that be, all it goes to show is that everybody no matter how much they try to be different are all the same in one way or another.

I'm sorry if i offended anyone regarding this, this was not my intention, I see this thread now and I think yeah Kew has a really valid point here.

:hugs:

:love:

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Originally Posted by Tamara GG

Some of the posts in this thread are unbelievable!!!! How can you not empathise with those different to you?? You may find the comparison repulsive, but there are those who find crossdressing repulsive, freaky, weird etc.... You are missing the whole point of Kews post :rolleyes: We have a member on this board who is an adult baby, I'm sure she will be so glad to have read what you think about her in this thread. :Pfft:

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I don't dislike or hate that member. I don't care what she does. I used harsh words in arguing since I was a little ticked. Sorry to that member. I "know" your abing is not like some severe fetishes that I mentioned. You were caught in the crossfire, sorry.

Late to this thread.

First, remember not everyone is confronted with this aspect of themselves prior to marriage. So blame cannot necessarily be laid at the feet of the CD unless it is assumed that he hid something during the vows.

The comparison to adult baby is interesting, but falls flat. An adult is able to get along with another adult, even a TG acting as a woman or a man, even if interaction must be limited to a non sexual context because it is a turn off. How does an adult get along with an adult acting like a baby? It is impossible without role play (acting like the mother/father). So that places an extra burden on the partner not present in CD.

There were many comments with the usual "women wear pants, why can't I wear skirts". This only makes sense if the person is wearing the skirt for comfort or for fashion. It does not make sense if the person is dressing to appear as a woman, because the woman wearing pants is not dressing to appear as a man. It also does not make sense if there are TG issues involved, because the woman wearing pants certainly is not acting like, and does not wish to be, a man.

It's a sliding scale. If you like certain articles of clothing, your wife is likely to be accepting. If you have a sexual obsession with some articles of clothing, your wife may find it weirder but be accepting. If you dress to appear as a woman, you should expect resistance from your surprised wife. If you act and/or wish to be a woman, you should expect even more resistance, or even resignation and divorce.

And all of that risk is multiplied as soon as you express a desire to start going out.

So the original post is spot on about the reaction of the partner being proportional to the shock. But I don't think adult baby is comparable because it demands that the partner do certain things to play along with the fantasy. The only 'demand' CDing makes is that the partner tolerate it, it doesn't require the participation of the partner in any way.

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Originally Posted by renee99

The only 'demand' CDing makes is that the partner tolerate it, it doesn't require the participation of the partner in any way.

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Doesn't it?

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Originally Posted by renee99

Late to this thread.



But I don't think adult baby is comparable because it demands that the partner do certain things to play along with the fantasy. The only 'demand' CDing makes is that the partner tolerate it, it doesn't require the participation of the partner in any way.

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Not necessarily true. Just as is true with CDers, some AB's don't expect, or even desire, participation from their SO. There are levels of AB just as there are levels of CD. Some ABs simply wish to dress and/or sleep as babies. Some simply wear adult diapers under their business suits with no physical disability which would require it. Some go for the entire kit and kaboodle.

As for the non requirement for the SO to participate, the simple fact that they get sucked (or joyfully jump) into the closet also is a degree of participation.

Hi everyone

First, I wish to point out that I intend to tell any potential SO about me within the first few dates.

Second, I wish to say that I am not repulsed by the individual who endulges in infantilism. That's their lifestyle, it's all human, and I'm not shocked by that.

Third, I wish to say (and hope that you believe me) that I feel tremendous empathy for the GGs whose spouses don't tell them for years about the CDing. It's absolutely a horrible surprise and I truly feel for each and everyone of you. This is exactly why I intend to inform any potential SO about me within the first few dates (if I don't feel, for whatever reason, that I am comfortable trusting the person I'm dating with the knowledge of my CDing then that person isn't a suitable mate and I will have to stop dating that person). In fact, I have not been dating for quite a while because I am confused about my gender and I wish to be as reasonably sure as humanly possible exactly what is making me tick so that I will have all relevant information to share and can be fully honest.

Now let me respond more directly to this thread.

I fully understand the point of the post -- being empathetic. As I said at the beginning, I am very empathetic -- so much so that my empathy is one of the strongest reasons that I question my gender.

I am very glad that you brought your feelings to us, Kew. I am beyond... verbal expression, literally... as to how grateful I am that there are GGs who are willing to be with us the way we are (it's too bad you can't see my face right now because you'd know just how much).

Again, I totally empathize with GGs who receive the nasty surprise of finding out they've been deceived.

Hugs,
Lisa

Some of you still AREN'T GETTING IT!!!!!! sheesh.... tis rocket science me thinks :rolleyes:

1. Kew ISN'T comparing CD'S TO ADULT BABIES
2. Kew IS talking about EMPATHY regarding ADULT BABIES
3. THERE IS A BLOODY BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!!!!

Ok, so what is so hard to understand about that? Stop having a go at her AND LEARN TO READ THE POST!!!!!!

</RANT>

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lisameaghan

Hi everyone

First, I wish to point out that I intended to tell any potential SO about me within the first few dates.

Second, I wish to say that I am not repulsed by the individual who endulges in infantilism. That's their lifestyle, it's all human, and I'm not shocked by that.

Third, I wish to say (and hope that you believe me) that I feel tremendous empathy for the GGs whose spouses don't tell them for years about the CDing. It's absolutely a horrible surprise and I truly feel for each and everyone of you. This is exactly why I intend to inform any potential SO about me within the first few dates (if I don't feel, for whatever reason, that I am comfortable trusting the person I'm dating with the knowledge of my CDing then that person isn't a suitable mate and I will have to stop dating that person). In fact, I have not been dating for quite a while because I am confused about my gender and I wish to be as reasonably sure as humanly possible exactly what is making me tick so that I will have all relevant information to share and can be fully honest.

Now let me respond more directly to this thread.

A diaper is NOT an item of clothing. It is, in fact, a receptacle for human excretion, a toilet for those too young to use one. I have a three year old nephew and a one and a half year old niece and have changed their diapers many, many times. It is a stinking, nasty thing. Thus, yes, I'm sorry, but it is insulting to have my crossdressing compared to that.Moreover, those who indulge in infantilism are regressing to some state of immaturity whereas for CDers that is the exception, not the rule.

Personally, I think that at best, the comparison to infantilism is, at best, partial and less than flattering and that there are better comparisons.

I fully understand the point of the post -- being empathetic. As I said at the beginning, I am very empathetic -- so much so that my empathy is one of the strongest reasons that I question my gender.

I am very glad that you brought your feelings to us, Kew. I am beyond... verbal expression, literally... as to how grateful I am that there are GGs who are willing to be with us the way we are (it's too bad you can't see my face right now because you'd know just how much).

I feel the need to point out that, yes, you went too far with your analogy, good intent or not. As the expression goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

For the record, I have read through the entire thread, including a double-check before I submit this posting to see if any other responses have been posted.

It shocks and upsets me that even though many respondents to this thread have indicated their feeling of negativity not one -- NOT ONE -- GG has so far said anything even approaching "okay, the analogy wasn't totally a good one in the end, but the point is valid". I would wholeheartedly agree with that, TOTALLY. But not one GG has said anything like "I'm sorry if I/we made you feel that way." (Unless I have gravely misunderstood).And yet, you're speaking of empathy? Okay then, fair enough. Can you please (and I am genuinely asking with respect) understand why it doesn't go over well to compare the lifestyle of a CDer with a receptacle for human waste and a regression into immaturity?
Yes, there are some emotional similarities, but emotionalism can be a very general thing.

This analogy is like asking a black person not to be offended when you use an example involving the KKK because, well, the shock value is the same.

So what????

Even if it is -- and I even AGREE that it is -- that doesn't justify it or excuse you from taking responsbility when you go too far, does it?

And again, you're talking with us about empathy here.

It is my hope that our communication is hindered somewhat because it is online (where as in person we would be much better able to resolve this) and that's why we're not seeming to understand each other.

I guess another part of the reason I'm reacting to this post is that you, the wonderful GGs who are willing to have us, are talking this way and ostensibly not willing to admit that you might have gone too far. If you've even been dating crossdressres then how in the world can you not see that your actions were likely a bit over the line?? Again, I totally empathize with GGs who receive the nasty surprise of finding out they've been deceived. But does that make it allright for you to not make amends for your mistakes? No, I don't think it does. Two wrongs don't make a right, do they?

Truce? :)

I hope I haven't upset anyone and if I have, I do honestly apologize for that. I'm only trying to communicate and avoid anyone (even the wonderful GGs who will accept us) being less than informed.

Hugs,
Lisa

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1. you are assuming that all AB's actually urinate and/or defacate in their diapers. This would be an incorrect assumption.

2. Do you also feel this repulsion for the elderly who must wear diapers? Trust me, I know from dealing with elderly parents, it IS an item of clothing for them.

3. I raised three sons, and not once did I think of a soiled diaper as something to be repulsed by. It is a natural function.

4. ABs should not be identified by only ONE article or aspect of their "different" lifestyle. Some don't even wear diapers, but do wear the other clothing of infants. This would be akin to identifying a crossdresser by their breast enhancers.

5. To a certain degree, MANY crossdressers do in fact participate in age regression~ Not to the point of infancy, but certainly to their early teens. And for the record, not all AB's regress to *infancy*. Some are "toddlers" and fully potty trained.




As one who understands the AB lifestyle, I personally feel no need to apologize as I think the analogy IS valid. I appreciate the time Kew took to investigate and even furnish links to information about AB's before making this comparison.


Quite frankly, I'm insulted FOR the AB's we have as members here that you indentify them with "receptacles for human waste".

I don't believe Kew went too far with this analogy, but I believe you have by degrading AB's.

For the record, neither myself or Trudi are in the AB lifestyle, but I know people who are. They are JUST as respectable as CDs are, and do not deserve to be referred to as "receptacles of human waste." And yes, before you protest, you *did* say this. Here is your comment: Can you please (and I am genuinely asking with respect) understand why it doesn't go over well to compare the lifestyle of a CDer with a receptacle for human waste and a regression into immaturity?

You seem to be more troubled by this thread than any of the other CDs who have responded. I wonder, did you actually read the links Kew provided? Do you really understand what it is that ABs do? Or is there some other chord this thread is striking for you?


Remember the three blind men who were asked to describe the elephant?

Hi everyone

I have removed some of my words from my original post because they were most definitely over the line and quite insensitive to those who enjoy infantilism.

I wholeheartedly apologize for the offense; I take full responsibility.

To those affected members: I hope I haven't made you feel uncomfortable coming here and if I have then that is a grievous thing. Please know that I do welcome you here with open arms.

Hugs,
Lisa

Coming this late to the party as it were, I hesitated a long time before deciding to post. So much that is very worthwhile has already been said, along with much that was mostly counterproductive. I did not intend to take sides, because the topic was becoming heated, but I will now. Before I do so, please read my feeble point about my personal experience:

My mother has to wear diapers. It does affect my feelings. It is a medical condition (post stroke), though I don't believe Kew meant to limit her analogy to the wearing of diapers, but rather to the reaction to infantilism in general. What I know about infantilism is limited to one episode of "CSI Las Vegas" (hardly a reliable source). In a twisted sort of way, my mother also exhibits helplessness that is at least remotely comparable to infantilism. It is no laughing matter. However, I do not abandon my mother. Many people do abandon their parents - send them off to the nursing home to be ignored/forgotten. Before you begin bashing me, please, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone!

Now, as promised, I will take sides. I generally side with the GGs who posted here. Kew did make us uncomfortable. Bravo Kew! Good post! That's how we learn! (This assumes we are willing to learn). No analogy is perfect; This analogy did not need to be "perfect" to be useful. It was not about infantilism or dirty diapers, but about how we react and how we feel about a major unsettling surprise involving a trusted spouse.

I think I empathize with the lack of empathy perceived by the GGs in this thread.

Few people with wisdom try to answer a hypothetical question. How can I know exactly how I would feel until it happened for real? I can only hope that I would behave better than many who posted here in this thread. Would I have behaved the same when I was 30, or 20? I doubt it. That is part of maturing. Perhaps also it is a benefit of having had some diversity training.