I want the CD's w/ partners to think about this, what IF?

[Marla S]

The initial question is designed to make you think about the emotions you would go through, if presented by a similar set of circumstances, to that which Wives/ SO's go through when told they are partnered to a crossdresser.

Infantilism is only an example of what it could be.

I am well aware of that, and I gave a few other examples that may have drastic impacts on a relationship, or how to arrange a life with challenges like this.
I also have every understanding for the shock if the CDing is revealed maybe long after marriage. I also see (and read in this forum) that after the outing TG folks sometimes is so excited that they loose sight and sense of proportion. Which makes it even harder for their SOs to deal with it.

BUT, for me infantilism is a destructive example as it is, correct me if I am wrong, at first associated with a sexual (pervert) load (true or not).
In this sense infantilism is indeed comparable to CDing, as CDing also at first is a associated with a sexual (pervert) load, and therefor the initial question seems to be legitime.

Nevertheless, IMHO CDing (TG) isn't primary of sexual intention (how sexual (pervert) a 4-6 year old can be ?), but it is exactly this assumed sexual load that causes a great part of the trouble our SOs have to face.

In this sense I find the initial question ("exercise") inappropriate and destructive (yes, and in a certain way offending).
IMHO it would be far more easy for our SOs (as well as for some of the TG folks) to deal with the non-deniable erotic (sexual) aspect of CDing too, if it would be seen as a secondary effect, which might even loose importance, if the primary reason is allowed to be unwrapped.

[NighttimeGirl]

I dont have an opinion on ppl who wear nappies, all I was saying was i couldnt identify, if that is wrong then wrong I am.

I'm gettin out of this thread now whilst I still got my parachute, wait too late........ plunge

I apologise for missing the boat,

no I don't actually, I missed the boat because I never brought a ticket

[ChristineRenee]

I am well aware of that, and I gave a few other examples that may have drastic impacts on a relationship, or how to arrange a life with challenges like this.
I also have every understanding for the shock if the CDing is revealed maybe long after marriage. I also see (and read in this forum) that after the outing TG folks sometimes is so excited that they loose sight and sense of proportion. Which makes it even harder for their SOs to deal with it.

BUT, for me infantilism is a destructive example as it is, correct me if I am wrong, at first associated with a sexual (pervert) load (true or not).
In this sense infantilism is indeed comparable to CDing, as CDing also at first is a associated with a sexual (pervert) load, and therefor the initial question seems to be legitime.

Nevertheless, IMHO CDing (TG) isn't primary of sexual intention (how sexual (pervert) a 4-6 year old can be ?), but it is exactly this assumed sexual load that causes a great part of the trouble our SOs have to face.

In this sense I find the initial question ("exercise") inappropriate and destructive (yes, and in a certain way offending).
IMHO it would be far more easy for our SOs (as well as for some of the TG folks) to deal with the non-deniable erotic (sexual) aspect of CDing too, if it would be seen as a secondary effect, which might even loose importance, if the primary reason is allowed to be unwrapped.

No offense Marla...but I have read and reread this post about 5 times and I STILL can't figure out what you are talking about here. Maybe it's just that I'm not cerebral enough...but what exactly are you trying to say???

[Marla S]

Maybe it's just that I'm not cerebral enough...

No. Maybe my English is not good enough, or more gravely my thoughts are a bit weird.

My premise 1 (simplified) is: Transgenderism (including CDing) is not of sexual and/or fetish-like nature.
Premise 2: In the view of the public transgenderism is of sexual and/or fetish-like nature, including our SOs that are usually struck by this matter like the bold from the blue sky.
Premise 3: Infantilism is associated by the public as of sexual and/or fetish-like nature.

So, making an "exercise" which compares premise 2 and 3 may be a funny game, but can't give a fruitfull result as it is not related to premise 1, the main subject.

As this comparison contributes to cement the IMO wrong view from premise 2 (can't say much about 3), a comparison like this is destructive in order to solve the real problems TG folks and their SOs have to face.

Though also not exactly the same category*, I think a more valid "exercise" would be a comparison between transgenderism and a handicap. Like "How you would feel if your SO suddenly becomes handicapped (i.e. by an accident)?

@offending. If you are positive about that being a CD/TG is a way of thinking and feeling in every aspect of your life, one may see it as offending, if this is (as I see the comparison) reduced to the sexual aspect. IMO it doesn't help our SOs as well as us. (maybe I am a bit over-reacting here)

I doubt that I am more clear now, but I tried

*I like comparisons a lot, but never ever in all of the years thinking about my CDing found one that really fits.

[Sharon]

The author of this thread has made her point(very good, Kew!), and the point is that many of you are as intolerant of other lifestyles as those you cry about being intolerant of yours.

The point of this exercise, if I may be so bold to speak for Kew, is to make you think. How is someone's desire to wear a diaper, or any other article of clothing, any different than our desire to wear clothing designed for the opposite sex -- at least to the eyes of an outsider? Some of you are taking this personally, but to another person who doesn't crossdress, they don't see such a difference -- adult babies and crossdressers all wear clothing not acceptable to a large segment of society. How is our choice of what to wear any better than another persons? We may not understand their desire or need, but we should be a bit more willing to accept it and them.

[NighttimeGirl]

the point has proven we are all inheritantly conditioned too just as the rest of society is, but dont forget I have spent most of my life trying to fit into the world that was created for me by the powers that be, all it goes to show is that everybody no matter how much they try to be different are all the same in one way or another.

I'm sorry if i offended anyone regarding this, this was not my intention, I see this thread now and I think yeah Kew has a really valid point here.

[AmandaM]

Some of the posts in this thread are unbelievable!!!! How can you not empathise with those different to you?? You may find the comparison repulsive, but there are those who find crossdressing repulsive, freaky, weird etc.... You are missing the whole point of Kews post :rolleyes: We have a member on this board who is an adult baby, I'm sure she will be so glad to have read what you think about her in this thread.

I don't dislike or hate that member. I don't care what she does. I used harsh words in arguing since I was a little ticked. Sorry to that member. I "know" your abing is not like some severe fetishes that I mentioned. You were caught in the crossfire, sorry.

[renee99]

Late to this thread.

First, remember not everyone is confronted with this aspect of themselves prior to marriage. So blame cannot necessarily be laid at the feet of the CD unless it is assumed that he hid something during the vows.

The comparison to adult baby is interesting, but falls flat. An adult is able to get along with another adult, even a TG acting as a woman or a man, even if interaction must be limited to a non sexual context because it is a turn off. How does an adult get along with an adult acting like a baby? It is impossible without role play (acting like the mother/father). So that places an extra burden on the partner not present in CD.

There were many comments with the usual "women wear pants, why can't I wear skirts". This only makes sense if the person is wearing the skirt for comfort or for fashion. It does not make sense if the person is dressing to appear as a woman, because the woman wearing pants is not dressing to appear as a man. It also does not make sense if there are TG issues involved, because the woman wearing pants certainly is not acting like, and does not wish to be, a man.

It's a sliding scale. If you like certain articles of clothing, your wife is likely to be accepting. If you have a sexual obsession with some articles of clothing, your wife may find it weirder but be accepting. If you dress to appear as a woman, you should expect resistance from your surprised wife. If you act and/or wish to be a woman, you should expect even more resistance, or even resignation and divorce.

And all of that risk is multiplied as soon as you express a desire to start going out.

So the original post is spot on about the reaction of the partner being proportional to the shock. But I don't think adult baby is comparable because it demands that the partner do certain things to play along with the fantasy. The only 'demand' CDing makes is that the partner tolerate it, it doesn't require the participation of the partner in any way.

[Kimberly]

The only 'demand' CDing makes is that the partner tolerate it, it doesn't require the participation of the partner in any way.

Doesn't it?

[GG Vanya]

Late to this thread.



But I don't think adult baby is comparable because it demands that the partner do certain things to play along with the fantasy. The only 'demand' CDing makes is that the partner tolerate it, it doesn't require the participation of the partner in any way.

Not necessarily true. Just as is true with CDers, some AB's don't expect, or even desire, participation from their SO. There are levels of AB just as there are levels of CD. Some ABs simply wish to dress and/or sleep as babies. Some simply wear adult diapers under their business suits with no physical disability which would require it. Some go for the entire kit and kaboodle.

As for the non requirement for the SO to participate, the simple fact that they get sucked (or joyfully jump) into the closet also is a degree of participation.

[Lisa Maren]

Hi everyone

First, I wish to point out that I intend to tell any potential SO about me within the first few dates.

Second, I wish to say that I am not repulsed by the individual who endulges in infantilism. That's their lifestyle, it's all human, and I'm not shocked by that.

Third, I wish to say (and hope that you believe me) that I feel tremendous empathy for the GGs whose spouses don't tell them for years about the CDing. It's absolutely a horrible surprise and I truly feel for each and everyone of you. This is exactly why I intend to inform any potential SO about me within the first few dates (if I don't feel, for whatever reason, that I am comfortable trusting the person I'm dating with the knowledge of my CDing then that person isn't a suitable mate and I will have to stop dating that person). In fact, I have not been dating for quite a while because I am confused about my gender and I wish to be as reasonably sure as humanly possible exactly what is making me tick so that I will have all relevant information to share and can be fully honest.

Now let me respond more directly to this thread.

I fully understand the point of the post -- being empathetic. As I said at the beginning, I am very empathetic -- so much so that my empathy is one of the strongest reasons that I question my gender.

I am very glad that you brought your feelings to us, Kew. I am beyond... verbal expression, literally... as to how grateful I am that there are GGs who are willing to be with us the way we are (it's too bad you can't see my face right now because you'd know just how much).

Again, I totally empathize with GGs who receive the nasty surprise of finding out they've been deceived.

Hugs,
Lisa

[Tamara Croft]

Some of you still AREN'T GETTING IT!!!!!! sheesh.... tis rocket science me thinks :rolleyes:

1. Kew ISN'T comparing CD'S TO ADULT BABIES
2. Kew IS talking about EMPATHY regarding ADULT BABIES
3. THERE IS A BLOODY BIG DIFFERENCE!!!!!!!

Ok, so what is so hard to understand about that? Stop having a go at her AND LEARN TO READ THE POST!!!!!!

</RANT>

[GG Vanya]

Hi everyone

First, I wish to point out that I intended to tell any potential SO about me within the first few dates.

Second, I wish to say that I am not repulsed by the individual who endulges in infantilism. That's their lifestyle, it's all human, and I'm not shocked by that.

Third, I wish to say (and hope that you believe me) that I feel tremendous empathy for the GGs whose spouses don't tell them for years about the CDing. It's absolutely a horrible surprise and I truly feel for each and everyone of you. This is exactly why I intend to inform any potential SO about me within the first few dates (if I don't feel, for whatever reason, that I am comfortable trusting the person I'm dating with the knowledge of my CDing then that person isn't a suitable mate and I will have to stop dating that person). In fact, I have not been dating for quite a while because I am confused about my gender and I wish to be as reasonably sure as humanly possible exactly what is making me tick so that I will have all relevant information to share and can be fully honest.

Now let me respond more directly to this thread.

A diaper is NOT an item of clothing. It is, in fact, a receptacle for human excretion, a toilet for those too young to use one. I have a three year old nephew and a one and a half year old niece and have changed their diapers many, many times. It is a stinking, nasty thing. Thus, yes, I'm sorry, but it is insulting to have my crossdressing compared to that.Moreover, those who indulge in infantilism are regressing to some state of immaturity whereas for CDers that is the exception, not the rule.

Personally, I think that at best, the comparison to infantilism is, at best, partial and less than flattering and that there are better comparisons.

I fully understand the point of the post -- being empathetic. As I said at the beginning, I am very empathetic -- so much so that my empathy is one of the strongest reasons that I question my gender.

I am very glad that you brought your feelings to us, Kew. I am beyond... verbal expression, literally... as to how grateful I am that there are GGs who are willing to be with us the way we are (it's too bad you can't see my face right now because you'd know just how much).

I feel the need to point out that, yes, you went too far with your analogy, good intent or not. As the expression goes, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

For the record, I have read through the entire thread, including a double-check before I submit this posting to see if any other responses have been posted.

It shocks and upsets me that even though many respondents to this thread have indicated their feeling of negativity not one -- NOT ONE -- GG has so far said anything even approaching "okay, the analogy wasn't totally a good one in the end, but the point is valid". I would wholeheartedly agree with that, TOTALLY. But not one GG has said anything like "I'm sorry if I/we made you feel that way." (Unless I have gravely misunderstood).And yet, you're speaking of empathy? Okay then, fair enough. Can you please (and I am genuinely asking with respect) understand why it doesn't go over well to compare the lifestyle of a CDer with a receptacle for human waste and a regression into immaturity?
Yes, there are some emotional similarities, but emotionalism can be a very general thing.

This analogy is like asking a black person not to be offended when you use an example involving the KKK because, well, the shock value is the same.

So what????

Even if it is -- and I even AGREE that it is -- that doesn't justify it or excuse you from taking responsbility when you go too far, does it?

And again, you're talking with us about empathy here.

It is my hope that our communication is hindered somewhat because it is online (where as in person we would be much better able to resolve this) and that's why we're not seeming to understand each other.

I guess another part of the reason I'm reacting to this post is that you, the wonderful GGs who are willing to have us, are talking this way and ostensibly not willing to admit that you might have gone too far. If you've even been dating crossdressres then how in the world can you not see that your actions were likely a bit over the line?? Again, I totally empathize with GGs who receive the nasty surprise of finding out they've been deceived. But does that make it allright for you to not make amends for your mistakes? No, I don't think it does. Two wrongs don't make a right, do they?

Truce?

I hope I haven't upset anyone and if I have, I do honestly apologize for that. I'm only trying to communicate and avoid anyone (even the wonderful GGs who will accept us) being less than informed.

Hugs,
Lisa

1. you are assuming that all AB's actually urinate and/or defacate in their diapers. This would be an incorrect assumption.

2. Do you also feel this repulsion for the elderly who must wear diapers? Trust me, I know from dealing with elderly parents, it IS an item of clothing for them.

3. I raised three sons, and not once did I think of a soiled diaper as something to be repulsed by. It is a natural function.

4. ABs should not be identified by only ONE article or aspect of their "different" lifestyle. Some don't even wear diapers, but do wear the other clothing of infants. This would be akin to identifying a crossdresser by their breast enhancers.

5. To a certain degree, MANY crossdressers do in fact participate in age regression~ Not to the point of infancy, but certainly to their early teens. And for the record, not all AB's regress to *infancy*. Some are "toddlers" and fully potty trained.




As one who understands the AB lifestyle, I personally feel no need to apologize as I think the analogy IS valid. I appreciate the time Kew took to investigate and even furnish links to information about AB's before making this comparison.


Quite frankly, I'm insulted FOR the AB's we have as members here that you indentify them with "receptacles for human waste".

I don't believe Kew went too far with this analogy, but I believe you have by degrading AB's.

For the record, neither myself or Trudi are in the AB lifestyle, but I know people who are. They are JUST as respectable as CDs are, and do not deserve to be referred to as "receptacles of human waste." And yes, before you protest, you *did* say this. Here is your comment: Can you please (and I am genuinely asking with respect) understand why it doesn't go over well to compare the lifestyle of a CDer with a receptacle for human waste and a regression into immaturity?

You seem to be more troubled by this thread than any of the other CDs who have responded. I wonder, did you actually read the links Kew provided? Do you really understand what it is that ABs do? Or is there some other chord this thread is striking for you?


Remember the three blind men who were asked to describe the elephant?

[Lisa Maren]

Hi everyone

I have removed some of my words from my original post because they were most definitely over the line and quite insensitive to those who enjoy infantilism.

I wholeheartedly apologize for the offense; I take full responsibility.

To those affected members: I hope I haven't made you feel uncomfortable coming here and if I have then that is a grievous thing. Please know that I do welcome you here with open arms.

Hugs,
Lisa

[Bernice]

Coming this late to the party as it were, I hesitated a long time before deciding to post. So much that is very worthwhile has already been said, along with much that was mostly counterproductive. I did not intend to take sides, because the topic was becoming heated, but I will now. Before I do so, please read my feeble point about my personal experience:

My mother has to wear diapers. It does affect my feelings. It is a medical condition (post stroke), though I don't believe Kew meant to limit her analogy to the wearing of diapers, but rather to the reaction to infantilism in general. What I know about infantilism is limited to one episode of "CSI Las Vegas" (hardly a reliable source). In a twisted sort of way, my mother also exhibits helplessness that is at least remotely comparable to infantilism. It is no laughing matter. However, I do not abandon my mother. Many people do abandon their parents - send them off to the nursing home to be ignored/forgotten. Before you begin bashing me, please, I'm not pointing fingers at anyone!

Now, as promised, I will take sides. I generally side with the GGs who posted here. Kew did make us uncomfortable. Bravo Kew! Good post! That's how we learn! (This assumes we are willing to learn). No analogy is perfect; This analogy did not need to be "perfect" to be useful. It was not about infantilism or dirty diapers, but about how we react and how we feel about a major unsettling surprise involving a trusted spouse.

I think I empathize with the lack of empathy perceived by the GGs in this thread.

Few people with wisdom try to answer a hypothetical question. How can I know exactly how I would feel until it happened for real? I can only hope that I would behave better than many who posted here in this thread. Would I have behaved the same when I was 30, or 20? I doubt it. That is part of maturing. Perhaps also it is a benefit of having had some diversity training.