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One of my goals in dressing is to blend in, or to not attract attention. Wearing a mini or micro skirt is not a good way to do that. I tend to dress modestly in that most of my skirts and dresses tend to be knee length or below. Also, I try to dress appropriately for the occasion.
I don't go out when I am dressed so I am free to do as I please. I do have age appropriate clothes. But much of the time, I do not wear age appropriate clothing. I do what feels good to me.
When I first started dressing, I went over the top and dressed in everything from early-teens to middle-aged! Now that I've started to "mature" in my tastes, I find that I'm starting to gravitate toward clothing that women my age wear (maybe slightly younger). I guess I get my inspiration from people around me that are my age, so I think I will naturally gravitate toward clothing that is targeted toward my age group.
That being said, I think that you should dress how you feel. As many have already mentioned, it is much easier to "out" people when they do not dress at or close-to their age. However, if your goal isn't to blend in, then you should just dress however you like! I'd be more concerned with "fit" than "style."
That is a hard one to answer. I tend to be a fairly trim person and I like to wear form fitting clothing. However in my mind I keep thinking its a little too young. But others have told me I dress like an old librarian. So not sure what age appropriate really is. I just go for whatever makes me feel good and I think I'd look good In.
It all depends upon the situation. If you are going out, and want to "blend in" then definitely age appropriate.. no granny dresses though :). If you are going to a club, or doing photos or whatever wear whatever you want. HAVE FUN!!
i'm a long way from going out and my choices are still limited since i hide everything...i'm just happy to dress when i can
however, if i was going out and had to choose...i'd say dress with what makes you feel your best inside...we are all different
For the most part it is. At 18, I dress how I see other 18 year olds, but a bit more conservatively. I don't dress in booty shorts/short shirts, as I can't get away with it haha. Skater skirts and tanks/v-necks work for me.
Nicole, I appreciate your spin on his topic but ultimately, we may have to agree to disagree here.Quote:
Originally Posted by NicoleScott
Far be it from me to aspire to the role of "fashion police" and tell you what you should - or shouldn't - wear when out in public. I do, however, have my opinions on that subject insofar as what other crossdressers do when out in public and the extent to which this may impact on my life as a fellow crossdresser. In short, I am a firm subscriber to the philosophy that another person's right to swing their arms ends where my nose begins.
You raise the point that what you might be wearing in Mississippi can hardly have any bearing on how I am perceived as a crossdresser here in Ontario. Fair enough, but let me tell you a little story here:
A few years back, I was in a local shopping mall (in drab) during the height of the pre-Christmas shopping season when an odd-looking person whom I was approaching from the back happened to catch my eye. As I got closer, I realized that this was definitely a middle-aged M-T-F crossdresser who was dressed in a style best described as "Mrs. Claus meets one of Santa's little elves", topped off with a cheap jet-black wig resembling Prince Valliant's favorite hairstyle, page-boy bangs and all.
This individual had taken it upon themselves to engage a young GG who was staffing one of the kiosks in the middle of the mall in a conversation, and judging by her body language, it was evident that she was very uncomfortable with this encounter. And yet, she soldiered on, the customer always being right, and all that.
Like others here, my "CD-radar" is pretty finely tuned and I can usually spot a "sister" a mile away, but this person was so blatant in their presentation that s/he had caught the attention of some of the other "muggles" as well. And needless to say, snickers and surreptitious finger-pointing behind her back had already started even before I came upon the scene.
I had posted about this encounter on this forum at the time as part of a thread on a similar topic, but here is where it gets interesting:
kathy-gg, who used to post here and lives in a community adjacent to mine subsequently responded to that thread as it had struck a chord with her, and she proceeded to fill in some of the blanks here. It should be noted that kathy's husband is also a crossdresser, she is very supportive of our community, and for a time actually ran an escorted shopping service geared towards our sisters who are too shy to appear in public en femme by themselves. And based on my description and this individual's modus operandi, she quickly identified them as a former client of hers whose fetishistic aspirations had made even her uncomfortable in the end. Imagine, then, what that poor girl behind the counter of that kiosk must have been going through...
So yes, I was a bit p*ssed off as well at the antics of this fetishistic crossdresser and how she had taken it upon herself to get in the faces of unwilling/unwitting "accomplices" just to selfishly get her own jollies, rather than keeping it indoors or amongst others of a similar mindset. Even worse, I felt embarrassed on her behalf (even if she didn't), and couldn't help but think of what kind of a negative impression of crossdressing she had left behind, and how that might impact on me personally some day when I was out en femme and trying my best to blend in.
There are some posters here who have commented on the fact that the trajectory of this thread has started to veer of into "fetish dressing" territory" as opposed to the original discussion of age appropriate dressing. And yes - guilty as charged - I'm probably the one who started us going off on this tangent.
But the fact of the matter is that you really can't separate "true" fetish crossdressing in public with crossdressers wearing age-inappropriate female clothing. The underlying principle here is that in both cases, it is males wearing over-the-top female garb, and we are judged as creepy male transvestites first and foremost, and not just as potential candidates for the reality TV show "What Not to Wear".
Sure, GG's can have an abysmal fashion sense, but that's all they run the risk of being judged on and having the Riot Act read to them by Stacy and Clinton. Unfortunately, the stakes are higher for us crossdressers because we have that gender/sexual orientation/fetish component to deal with as well in the eyes of the public.
All that said, I remain steadfast in my stated opinion that we need to hold ourselves to a higher standard when going out in public en femme if we ever hope to achieve more widespread mainstream acceptance. Not only that, but we must also respect the feelings of our loved ones whom we have corralled into joining us in our journey of self-discovery (sometimes kicking and screaming, unfortunately).
We as individuals may not care about what snickers or other negativity we may be attracting when we are out in public "doing our own thing", but what about our wives, SO's, children, parents etc. who might be mortified if the neighbor lady happened to mention one day that she saw a family member over at the local grocery store wearing a Harpo Marx wig, a pink tutu, and 6-inch stilettos, smiling all the while like the proverbial Cheshire cat...?
I hate to bring this up, but the general public thinks we're nuts, and it has little to do with whether we wear age appropriate clothes, and all to do with that it's the clothes of the opposite sex. An 80 year old man can get away with wearing a rapper's t shirt, a backwards baseball cap and torn jeans hanging around his butt much easier than he can wearing an old lady dress.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie Langford
Besides, if we really cared about what people think of us, we wouldn't crossdress at all.
I agree 100%.Quote:
Originally Posted by sometimes_miss
They may be all compliments to our face, but they are laughing behind our backs.
Now I have a bloodied nose:Angry3: You have lost the plot Leslie and marginalised yourself. Surprisingly for the amount of time you have spent out femme, you must have a severe lack of confidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie Langford
Thankfully real people don't live in a blinkered one dimensional world where a short skirt, for example, would categorise me as "creepy" rather than as interesting and personable.
OK. We see the other's POV and aren't likely to change ours. But about that page boy wig with bangs comment......Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie Langford
Crikey, Michelle, my confidence level in going out in public en femme is just fine, thank you very much. In fact, it is better than ever, and as I pile up good experiences one on top of another, it just gets easier and easier and more and more satisfying.
But in the process, I've also cultivated a certain image with GG's that I've gotten to know personally (make-up artists, nail techs, consignment store owners, among others) aside from interacting with the general public, and they have a very positive view of what I am and what I do at this time. But being open-minded as they are, they are also bound to encounter other crossdressers along the way. And I truly fear that somewhere along the line, that positive view may be diminished if they meet other members of our tribe who don't respect the same types of boundaries in the way they present themselves and wind up creeping them out.
Leslie, your comment really hit the nail on the head and I couldn't agree with you more ! It has been something I've been trying to explain to others for a while now.
I'm not out to judge anybody on how they express themselves, that's where I agree fully on needing to hold ourselves to a higher standard. I think it's more about "occasion appropriate" attire than "age appropriate". Sometimes, I may dress a little younger than my age, such as skinny jeans ,form fitting tops, and boots, but I dress in outfits I think are not only fun, but it's sensible when interacting in public. I certainly wouldn't be wearing a skimpy club dress and stiletto heels in Barnes And Noble !
Dressing "fetish" in a public setting for all the world to see I feel hurts the rest of us who just want to go about our business as best as we can. We get enough flak as it is, I don't need the "sexual deviant" "pervert" label tossed at me.
Yet again, I'm in complete agreement with Leslie, especially on the cultural ramifications.Quote:
Originally Posted by Leslie Langford
You catch more flies with honey...
You get what you give...
Etc, etc...
We talk a lot about the importance of compromising with SOs, and I don't see compromising with the public to be any less worthwhile. I don't have children yet, but I wouldn't want my child around a GG wearing what some of us prefer either. I would also love to wear pajamas everywhere, but the compromises we all make every day mean I'm unlikely to show up at the office in them anytime soon.
Again though, if something makes you happy, then do it and OWN it. I do feel like fashion should be a conscious choice though. I've met a lot of folks who just honestly don't know how to dress appropriately for a situation, for their body type/size, or whatever. If you do, and you choose not to, then go for it girlfriend! You'll have to deal with the consequences, but I think most folks can tell when somebody's made a choice out of freedom rather than ignorance.
@Cara_Lacey and @sometimes_miss
I don't think that everybody out there thinks we're nuts. I think that most people are too busy minding their own business to even care what we're wearing, and that the majority of people when we interact with them, like with a cashier or sales associate, likely they don't have opinions on us and will be swayed by our behavior.
With that said, there is real transphobia out there. But I think the people who are truly transphobic are in the minority, and it's just that when they do something to us, whether it's misgender us, call us tranny or dude in a dress, laugh at us, give us the cold shoulder, fire us from our jobs, and murder us, their actions leave a long lasting impression on us emotionally, not to mention can ruin us financially or end our lives.
But I honestly think that most people don't really care either way. I think that the level of transphobia also varies from place to place.
I do think that people who are transphobic will sometimes try to show social etiquette, political correctness, and abide by laws to protect us, even though they secretly hate us. But I honestly don't think that most people think we're nuts and are talking behind our backs all the time. I honestly think there are more people who think the Southern Baptists are nuts and talk behind their backs all time. My family consists of three of them (well, two of them more often). There are people who think that if you speak in tongues - yes even born again Christians - who think you're nuts or even possessed by the devil. I'm not kidding you here. I think more people think Christian fundamentalists are nuts than think we're nuts. There are probably some who think both Christian fundamentalists and TG people are nuts.
In general, a few ignorant people are the ones who create all the trouble. Not just with the TG community, but in life in general. Even if you go to a crime ridden neighborhood, most people aren't going to shoot you. Most people there probably are non violent. A few are and they can end your life if you are unlucky enough to cross their path, and this is why we avoid those kind of neighborhoods. But I don't think that most people who live there are criminals, but rather economically underprivileged people who cannot afford to live anywhere better.
I think we pass way too much judgment on the cis-gendered world. Not everyone hates us. I don't even think that most hate us. The few that do hate us cause most of the damage to us. Remember, it takes only one person to laugh and say "look at that dude in a dress" to potentially ruin our day, if we let it ruin our day. We don't have to let it ruin our day. It takes one idiot to murder a TG, and one idiot to fire you from your job. If you lost your job because of being TG, that doesn't mean that everyone there hates you. It was probably one or two people who hate you.
@Nicole_Scott and @Zooey
There is a difference between going over the top and dressing inappropriately. I believe that the only truly inappropriate clothes are those which make you uncomfortable (too hot, too cold, too tight, struggling to walk in stiletto heels), and those clothes that are too skimpy and show the private parts or too much cleavage. Showing a little cleavage is okay. Wearing knee length dresses and skirts, and those dresses or skirts that go 3-5 inches above the knee are okay too. If you wish to go shorter, than that's your perogative. Wearing stockings is okay too, as it is okay to go bare legged, to wear ankle length dresses, or to wear jeans.
I agree with what Nicole said about how GG's do the same thing and wear "inappropriate" clothing and it doesn't make other GG's look bad. I think the same applies to CDers or TSes. I would err on the side of dressing more conservatively if going on a job interview or to work (if TS or full time CDer).
I am a TS who happens to wear a different style than yours, and I get complimented on my outfits all the time.Quote:
I'm just a crossdresser with a style that's different than yours and I like to go out to enjoy the evening, as you do.
I believe that whatever you wear, wear it with confidence, and behave with dignity. If you do so than you are setting a good example for the TG community.
@Leslie - It is not just about wearing any particular items of clothing, but also how well put together your outfit is. I agree that wearing a good quality wig that looks like natural hair will look drastically better than wearing some cheap wig that looks too wiggy, or some wig that might look well on someone else but not on you. This is why I overemphasize trying on wigs in person before you buy. Because a good quality wig will cost you $200 plus tax. While if you make a mistake buying a top or a skirt or a dress for $10-20 from Target or Ross, you've wasted less money on your mistake. Also I think it is important to know the return policy and be prepared to return your item, if it is returnable, if it doesn't look good or fit you.
I don't believe in just wearing any old item off the racks. When I buy clothes, I try them on and try to get a sense of how well they might look on me. Now that I shop en femme (I am full time TS, so I am biased, but any CDer who has a working wardrobe can venture out en femme, go shopping, and try on clothes with your wig and makeup to see how they look.) I try on clothes to see how they look on me before I buy them. I use my eyes, feel, and intuition to decide if something looks good on me or not. When I am mixing and matching clothes and accessories at home, I use the same three senses to decide if an outfit works or not.
Fashion sense doesn't come over night. But practice makes perfect, and you can develop it. If you learn to follow your own intuition, you will discover what looks and feels great on you. And if you are happy with what you see in the mirror, and how the clothes feel on you, than you have an outfit that works and are ready to go wear it with confidence.
As for fetishes, I agree that wearing skimpy outfits, sissy maid outfits, or Santa's elf outfits, are generally out of place outside of a fetish ball. Save dressing like a hooker for the tranny bar. But I believe that we can still dress pretty and stylish, and yes that includes wearing the holy grails of crossdressing - dresses/skirts, stockings, heels, and makeup - and still put together an outfit very nicely and go make a good impression in public. Skinny jeans can work too. There is no need to limit yourself to jeans and t-shirt just because you think everyone else is wearing that. You heard me, I said because "you think" everyone else is wearing that. If you take a good look around you there is a wide variety of styles in which GGs dress, and include pants or jeans, skirts or dresses, heels, sneakers, flats. Makeup, no makeup. Stockings, bare legs. Long dresses, short dresses. You name it, some GG is wearing every style out there. Just own it, and be confident, and you'll be fine.
As someone who aspires to "pass" I dress to blend in an age-appropriate style...by MY definition. In my male workday I generally wear suits while my colleagues favor business casual. While I don't strictly blend I don't think most would think me to be out of bounds. While Jocelyn is not likely to wear flip-flops to pick up a loaf of bread, I'm not going to wear a gown either.
As for the question of age, who sets that standard? At age 52 you won't see me in a micro-mini, but I've seem a whole lot of 50 year-olds dressing like conservative grannies.
Where I get a little uncomfortable is how the discussion has turned on the fetish dressing question. I'm not a fetish dresser and I don't really "get it". Honestly, when I see a fetish dresser in public (CD or GG) I think it's goofy and inappropriate. BUT...I bet a whole lot of men would say that cross dressers diminish all men - ALL cross dressers, even us "normal" ones. I've actually had white people tell me that they like me because I don't dress like a regular black guy. Some of the concerns about fetish dressing feel very much the same to me.
I get that people are influenced by stereotypical impressions and that I have been affected in a very real way because a bunch of uptight white people saw some gangster rap videos and just assumed that somehow gives them insight into me. I just reject the correlation. If someone has seen 10 wildly over-the-top fetish cross dressers in their lifetime their opinion is bound to be informed by that experience. But when they meet me and I don't fit that preconceived notion, they're going to recognize that I'm different. I really don't feel all that negatively impacted by how another human chooses to present themselves, and if someone really can't grasp the difference I'm probably not going to be too interested in them to care.
In the end isn't it really just a matter of degree? Non-trans men don't get vanilla CDs so they are rejected. Vanilla CDs don't get fetish CDs so they are rejected. It's all wrong and this type of thinking diminishes us all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelle789
Just to be clear, I completely agree with you here. I've worn all of those things, but it's all about the overall look. I wear dresses/skirts that hit well above the knee all the time, but might balance them for casual outings with a pair of cute flats and/or a neutral cardi. Alternatively, I'll dress up dark skinny jeans with a cool top, a black blazer, a chunky necklace, and the baddest black pumps my feet can manage for the occasion, because that's a perfectly good look too. Nobody needs to wear mom jeans and plain tops to blend - you just need to make active choices that work for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelle789
...and preferably avoid skirts that show your butt cheeks and any heels that could be sold at a sex shop, at least outside of some very specific venues. :P
I was using the term "inappropriate" a little more broadly (certainly not just age inappropriate). There's a time and a place for everything, and things can be balanced. i see GGs at the mall all the time in skirts that I think are more than a bit short for the venue, but they balance it out with SOMETHING, like a flouncy top with a bit more coverage, and they're usually not ALSO wearing 6" fetish heels and "hooker makeup". I see lots of girls rocking club night eyes in the daytime, but balancing that by going for good jeans and a cool graphic tee that's bold, but tones down the look for contrast while keeping it edgy. There are millions of outfits out there that are all fine, and it's about composition and balance.
That's what I mean by making it a conscious choice - learn how to style yourself, and then make bold choices. You can wear almost any single piece so long as you know how to balance it. :)
@Zooey - Thank you so much. Yes, I agree it's all about balance.
Wow the pink fog is thick in here. Everyone has an opinion. Just because they don't tell you doesn't mean instant approval and/or endorsement. Let me tell you something, if a guy walks into a store wearing dynamite, just because he acts sweet as pie isn't going to change what people think of him. Same with us. We may be treated as NICE crazy men, but people still think we've got something very wrong with us. I'm not out, and as such I get to hear other people's thoughts on this subject often enough to know that. Kind of like walking around in Boston wearing a Yankees cap. You might not hear a nasty word all day, but that doesn't mean everyone loves you, thinks you're great, or even want's you around.....ever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelle789
Lol...you know, I dont do fetish stuff...lol, and I do think what I wear is well put together and tasteful. I admit it is usually a younger look than many would expect a woman my age to wear, but here is the thing...style and what is acceptable is very different in say Peoria or Battle Creek, than it is in New York, Los Angeles or Paris. Forgive me here, but I am not interested in blending in with the housewives of Des Moines. No offense to Des Moines, a lovely city I am sure. Lol.
Appropriate for place and time. Yes.
Dowdy and boring...heck no.
There is a way of achieving a cosmopolitan and stylish look, which probably would be seen as not age appropriate by clucking hens in suburbia but would not raise an eyebrow in a more sophisticated city.
That look is my goal and what I look for ways to achieve. And yes, sometimes it may involve a ripped graphic tshirt and a short skirt. Or something else equally likely to produce clucking.
I work hard to keep a trim figure. I study fashion magazines. I work at this. I have a pretty good eye, at least I think I do, and if I like a look, and think I can pull it off and make a look work you better believe I am going to, and that goes for whatever age I attain.
Now read that back.
It could have been written by any woman.
Correct?
That's my standard.
I am not concerned with the impression I give as a cd. I am concerned with the impression I give as a woman.
I find it ironic that so many of us spend years afraid to come out because of what other people may think, only to turn around and tell each other how to think. Whatever.
I don't expect to change anyone else's mind and I don't expect any of this to change mine. Lol
Have fun out there, girls.
Hugs
Sammie
I think the beauty of dressing is all the looks I try to come up with. So I believe at times that would fall in the age appropriate category and other times not so much:o
I do prefer to look younger but I do not go overboard, I shave about ten years off and can get away with that.
I am 58 and I dress like a 58 year old trying to look 48. So.... pretty much what most women my age are after. Though, saying that, I work in a shop and some women come in who are obviously in their late fifties and sixties wearing the slightly conservative but very attractive clothes that you might normally expect to see on a forty or even thirty year old and they really pull it off. It's all in the face and, sadly, I have the features of a scrapyard German Shepherd.
Yes, I tend to dress age appropriate. I tend not to go out every day so I don't wear 'everyday' clothes. If I go out to an event I wear something elegant, if it's a night out on the town I wear something a little sexier, but generally age appropriate.