Question to CDs only, from Anonymous GG

You know what I find interesting? I think it's interesting how hostile some of the responses to this thread are. I wonder why? That's not sarcasm - I honestly wonder why some seem to have a hostile undertone. It seems like she asked a reasonable question, certainly no worse than many I've read here over the years, so why the anger? Not just hostility at the original question, but hostility toward each other. Why can there not be a discussion, how ever uncomfortable or irritating with out hostility? If even WE, people who claim to be open minded and open hearted, can't have a discussion of pretty much ANY topic without getting hostile, then the world has no hope.

To me its the clothes and Fashion. I love to dress up and pose for photoshoots. I used to go out in public, but I chose to go back in the closet. I couldn't present myself as a woman very good. And I think I was just embarssing myself. I just love the way the clothes feel on me, and the private posing and pictures is my main likes about crossdressing. And yes I read all the fashion mag's out there. Daviolin

1. Originally Posted by Anonymous GG
To Crossdressers:

I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman. It's more than just clothing, shoes, makeup, and female parts. I've read how some of you want to embrace being a female but I've only read posts on things like pretty panties, stockings, and dresses or which female body part would some of you like to have etc, which makes me feel this is very physical and like one big slumber party on the forums.

Sure some might admire women and I get that. I admire a lot of people too, but in turn I don't try and imitate them by dress etc.

On another note, do you really think that the grass is greener on the other side...


AnonymousGG, Y

You say you’re curious to know our thoughts (CD”S) on what it takes to be a woman. You say here in your typed words that it is more than heels, shoes, clothing make up female parts, etc. And I totally agree. It is more than a style of clothes to be a woman, which I’m sure we all can agree to that. As I read your words , I can clearly see you are of so many confusions. It’s like your questions and words branch out to so many avenues, but you say you get the clothing. You’re telling us that it’s more than “heels, make up and female body parts”. Those words are a little loaded. Let’s break it down. You say “it’s more than clothes”, let’s stop there. Yes it is more than clothes. The continuation of your questions are more than ”female body parts” Well, let’s take away the heels, clothing, make up, but leave the body parts ,ie, natural born Vagina, breast’s, etc. then you have a woman. And that’s what you are,,, a natural born woman.
So with that being said, you wonder if CD’s, I’m assuming by your words and maybe I’m mistaken maybe not, that you do mean MTF CD’s and not Ts’s, and so from that assumption , I continue on with your question of do CD’s know what it’s like to be a woman?
As with any group of people or even the whole world’s human population, CD’s are a minority, and a small minority to the extreme by way of the world’s whole population. Then we break down the CD population as a whole. We are as diverse and as different from one another as one snow flake is from another. I used to think that all crossdressers were the same, but after several cd,tg,ts events, plus many years on cd sites, I, and many others like me, or similar to me but also are very vast and we cannot all fit in the same barrel. There is no bucket to fit us all in. The differences among cd’s are likened to the world population itself. Personally, I do fit into a very side spectrum of cross dressing. It’s like all white people do not fit into one category, nor can all black people fit into just one category, nor are all men the same as well as all women are not the same, on and on. I really wish life were just that simple. I do know of late though that I am a much more loveable and likable person when Tara meets anyone face to face and in person. I have no problem blending in with all of the degrees and spectrums of cd, tg,s and ts’s. It is so natural when I meet multitudes of the minority of my kind in person. But when I type words, I’m so misunderstood.
Do I know what it’s like to be a woman? I’m not 100% sure. But I can only imagine. Let me say that again, I can only imagine. I do know that when I’m Tara and out and about, I feel the power that women have, so many women don’t even realize their power. But I know their power and can easily capitalize on it. I read or see stories of very beautiful women commit suicide, for they have so much power over men and don’t even realize it. I remember through my 20’s, I spent many a lonely night. I was a good looking young man, I had it all going for me, but yet, I went home from club’s all alone and with empty pockets. I had sexual needs, and desires, but all too often, I had to go home with so many disappointments. And I’d talk to a few friend girls, and they were getting action, boyfriends and so much was so open to them as well as it is for so many of them today, for they had the power. They had and still do have the power, and some of them realize it and some of them do not. Some here talk about hard times of some women. That is not the norm.
So anonymous, I don’t know what it’s like to be a woman, but when I am Tara, I can so easily capitalize on all the power that fills me, and so many doors open to me, doors that I know open automatically merely because they see a woman. Cd’s know who and what we are to a degree and even we are so confused from one CD to the next one. I’m going to cut this short now, with this, several times I have held a revolver to my head, life as a man and all that goes with it, I could so easily flushed it all away with the pull of that trigger, but I do know that had I been born a woman,,, all the way, life would have been so much easier. It is a very big picture, one that if I was in person with all of us here, I know I could make myself so very clear. I also know that of late on this site, a “CD site”, that there is not equality between males and females here. The sisterhood I thought I could or that I prayed to find, or at least cd’s similar to me, does not exist among us here. I used to wake up everyday to get on this site with hopes to find mutual cyber companionship, but since last week, I am convinced, even that dream that I once had, is now shattered. Life as a cd is very ,very difficult and hard. Nowadays I realize that I’m forced back into the realms of just being a lurker on this site, or have been forced to just to keep my opinions to myself, or just to say how great that outfit looks on certain threads. Even on this site, GG’s don’t get slammed and flamed like CD’s do. That is just one of the thousands of differences between men and women. So, do we, or I know what it's like to be a woman? Maybe I do or maybe I don't. But I do FEEL life is so much easier for a woman.
I’m really puzzled why you couldn’t just post this question in this forum and back it all with your screen name?
Love & Respect…………..Tara

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Originally Posted by TxKimberly

You know what I find interesting? I think it's interesting how hostile some of the responses to this thread are. I wonder why? That's not sarcasm - I honestly wonder why some seem to have a hostile undertone. It seems like she asked a reasonable question, certainly no worse than many I've read here over the years, so why the anger? Not just hostility at the original question, but hostility toward each other. Why can there not be a discussion, how ever uncomfortable or irritating with out hostility? If even WE, people who claim to be open minded and open hearted, can't have a discussion of pretty much ANY topic without getting hostile, then the world has no hope.

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I agree to this and was about to make a similar comment. I am surprised to see CD's claim that they open minded, empathize with women better than non CD'ers, blah blah blah and other such c%@p while at the same time other CD'ers keep making unwarranted hostile comments.

Tara, you made some wonderful observations... thank you for sharing such powerful emotions and insights :)
You've got the beautiful heart of a woman beating in your chest, and I wish you all the best in finding more of that sisterhood which many of us seek!

It is certainly true that in many venues in modern times, women do have many advantages over men ---

Woman power is awesome!!!
:)

And I don't mean just in the beauty department and being fawned over by admirers ---
More and more business professionals, politicians, medical specialists, and CEO's are female. And I believe that's a good thing.

It is upsetting to me how in many societies in the past, and still too much in the present throughout various parts of the world, women are not allowed the same priviledges, rights, and influence as men in certain societies.

Hopefully in the near future, the whole world would give equal appreciation, rights, and power to both women and men.

And even then, within both gender categories, people tend to appreciate and differentiate due to more / less / average amounts of intelligence, charm, charisma, gracefulness in speech & mannerisms, confidence, finances, political influence, strength, attractiveness, aggressiveness, etc...

The world is truly not a fair place in and of itself... justice and fairness are side effects of the desires / lack of desires of individuals and groups as a whole.... society's rules and random chance of things for each person.

Going back to what Tara said --- it is definitely a big part of the appeal for cross dressers to exhibit and/ or adopt feminine traits in order to garner that attention and allure which many women possess.

I also agree that there as many different individuals and reasons for male-to-female crossdressers to do what they do as there are stars in the sky... or at least as there are stars in Hollywood
;)

Sure, many will share on alot of the motivations and converge on many desires, but that can be said for any unique group.
In any case, the greater the understanding and acceptance, the better!

As if anyone really knows what it feels like to be a woman or a man. We know what it's like to carry out social constructions, however, does carrying out social constructions of gender really make anyone a woman or a man? I'm not really a fan of essentialism, do you really think cave women starved themselves and made pink clothing with floral designs to attract cave men? Keep telling yourselves this is what men and women are suppose to do, you'd only be lying to yourselves.

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Originally Posted by TxKimberly

You know what I find interesting? I think it's interesting how hostile some of the responses to this thread are. I wonder why? That's not sarcasm - I honestly wonder why some seem to have a hostile undertone. It seems like she asked a reasonable question, certainly no worse than many I've read here over the years, so why the anger? Not just hostility at the original question, but hostility toward each other. Why can there not be a discussion, how ever uncomfortable or irritating with out hostility? If even WE, people who claim to be open minded and open hearted, can't have a discussion of pretty much ANY topic without getting hostile, then the world has no hope.

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I think it's because some of the members deeply feel the pain of not being able to freely express themselves. The Anonymous GG's post evidenced in a poignant manner the difficulties that spouses and family members have in understanding what the CDing is about. And what is more painful than a loved one who doesn't understand who you are. No one is to blame for this, other than the society in which we live.

It's a vicious circle for many couples: first he feels ashamed, then he tells her (or she finds his stuff) when he can't keep a lid on it anymore, then she goes into shock because she never expected this, she feels lied to, and also because she doesn't understand. So, to spare her further grief he then tries to keep a lid on it even more, thinking this is how he should reach a place of balance, which she then sees as his attempt to hide something that means more to him than she does. Vicious circle. And then perhaps they both get their backs up against the wall. Or they sweep things under the carpet.

I imagine that many members reading this and other threads like it are reminded of feeling stuck between a rock and a hard place.

Still, I agree that sarcasm and hostility will not help to improve matters. But I imagine that those who allow the anger to come to the surface, do so because they are venting, knowing full well their own family members will not read their words. If their wives were members here, I doubt they'd be posting the same thing. In the meantime, the GGs who are here trying to understand get pushed even further away because of the hostility.

It's really sad for everyone. :sad:

I also do not want to be a woman or know what it takes to be one just like the clothes and have since I was a kid at age 5

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Originally Posted by Aprilrain

the proper tern is intersexed unless your talking about plants!

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I looked up intersexed on Google and its having a body that is part male and part female.
What Suzy meant I think was having a male body but within the brain or mind being a combination of both sexes.
I am saying this as a member with little knowledge of this subject so I could be talking rubbish


SUZY

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Originally Posted by TxKimberly

I couldn't agree more Sherry!

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I have gone to Reine time and again complaining about how guys are screwing things up in their lives and relationships and time and again, Reine will always come to the guys defence or at least try to share some understanding. While at the same time defending the GG and acknowleding her point of view. How Reine pulls this off and helps cool things down untill things can be worked out, is amazing. She has made a major impact on my world view.

BTW, when is Reine going to write her book and make a million?

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Originally Posted by suzy1

I looked up intersexed on Google and its having a body that is part male and part female.
What Suzy meant I think was having a male body but within the brain or mind being a combination of both sexes.
I am saying this as a member with little knowledge of this subject so I could be talking rubbish


SUZY

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Yes that is exactly what I meant. The human brain is so complex and we know so little about it. I do not buy into the notion that this is something that is acquired or a result of society or due to trauma in early childhood. I had none of this and started dressing at age 5, 43 years of pure heaven and hell. My brain is intersexxed while my body is male.

BTW, the term Hermaphrodite has also been used to describe the human condition, it is just not scientifically correct and not used anymore. It comes from greek mythology Hermaphroditus.

Thanks SUZY for understanding what I meant.


Suzy

No, I don't know what it takes to be a woman. And of course it's not easy--nor is being a man, which is what I have to struggle with every second. "Being" a woman truly involves (in part) things like pregnancy and cramps. No thanks to either. I think I dress because I love women's clothes the same way some women do, and maybe fashion designers do. When I dress, I feel "This is right. This is me." No doubt there is more to it than that, but please don't begrudge us our love of things feminine, even if we don't know "what it takes" to be female.

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Originally Posted by adrienner99

No, I don't know what it takes to be a woman. And of course it's not easy--nor is being a man, which is what I have to struggle with every second. "Being" a woman truly involves (in part) things like pregnancy and cramps. No thanks to either. I think I dress because I love women's clothes the same way some women do, and maybe fashion designers do. When I dress, I feel "This is right. This is me." No doubt there is more to it than that, but please don't begrudge us our love of things feminine, even if we don't know "what it takes" to be female.

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Ditto, I agree 100%, well said.

Suzy

I am coming back here and stating where I stand on this.
I believe 100% that a part of me [in my brain not body] is female.

I can not ever see a time when something comes along that changes my belief in this.

Your sister [or part sister if you want] SUZY

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Originally Posted by Suzy Satin

Yes that is exactly what I meant. The human brain is so complex and we know so little about it. I do not buy into the notion that this is something that is acquired or a result of society or due to trauma in early childhood. I had none of this and started dressing at age 5, 43 years of pure heaven and hell. My brain is intersexxed while my body is male.

BTW, the term Hermaphrodite has also been used to describe the human condition, it is just not scientifically correct and not used anymore. It comes from greek mythology Hermaphroditus.

Thanks SUZY for understanding what I meant.


Suzy

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I guess I can weigh in here but it's off the topic of this thread. There are lots of organisms that are truly hermaphroditic (having functional male and female reproductive organs in the same individual) -- earthworms, flatworms, snails, many flowering plants. With humans the definition is cloudy. We are not hermaphrodites -- usually have one set of organs or the other. Intersex is a genetic condition where an individual has elements of both male and female genitalia, and there can be a spectrum of possiblities here.

Just to further confuse the issue....

OK .. class dismssed!

Joni, there isn't a book. It would have to be printed with disappearing ink that has the magical property of reappearing with different thoughts, since my views on everything are constantly changing. :)

I'm with Suzy1 entirely on this! There is very clearly a section of my brain that is wired differently from the section of my brain that matches my biological gender. It took a long time to realize this, which is why my wife and I only found "Tina" when I had just turned 55! As has been posted elsewhere in this forum, there is a growing body of biological research that shows it is rather complicated for the fetal brain (which would develop female if left to its own devices) to change to a male...the phrase is "hormonal washes" that bathe the brain in the appropriate male hormones to have the brain and body biochemistry match. Sometimes, these washes do not get done completely and, well, here we are! The speculation (a logical one) is that the differing amounts of success of the hormonal washes dictate the varied depth of femininity in an otherwise masculine biochemistry, e.g. some just enjoying the clothes to those who must transition completely!

I'm one of the remarkably fortunate members of this forum to have a wife who understands completely, and has stated directly that it must be just impossible to live a life without allowing what you really are to surface! My wife very much sees the differences between my masculine and feminine sides, and has stated that she finds this very positive! The other day she said Tina was, "so sweet".

The problem with having a brain that represents two genders centers around the massive confusion about what and who we are! I can only biologically experience being a man. I was socialized as a boy growing up. The only thing that I can do now is to attempt to learn what I missed, and to experience, as best I can, life from a woman's perspective. I can live, as best as possible for blocks of time, as Tina. This exposes me to all the vaguaries of life that have been well-documented on this forum. Nonetheless, there is no other way if I am to understand as much as possible about what I missed by not growing up as a girl (at least parttime), what I will never understand biologically, and those pieces that are impossible to understand because not ALL of my brain is wired in a feminine fashion.

Thus, I see the goal is to know who we are, know our limitations and deficiencies, and be happy with the knowledge that we are the best we can be. And being proud of all of that might not hurt either!! :)

best,
Tina

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Originally Posted by suchacutie

It took a long time to realize this, which is why my wife and I only found "Tina" when I had just turned 55!

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Tina, I've been meaning to ask this, but looking back, do you now discern having had any special interest or curiosity in "things feminine", even when it would never have occurred to you to crossdress?

I've tried to answer this type of question often here. It's not whether or not we 'know what it takes'. It's not about looking for an easier life. It's not about avoiding the responsibilities that men have. It's about doing something that we simply feel we are supposed to do. There are lots of different reasons for why we do it, and very very few know why we do it! It took me what, nearly 30 years to figure it all out about myself, and that was by seeking out everything I could about the subject. Psychologists have no treatment for it. What does that tell you?
It's because, like so many others, they are trying to find 'the one reason' why we do this. And they won't be able to, because there is no 'one reason'. There's a whole lot of different ones.
Do we know what it takes to be a woman? No. It's impossible. There's no way any man can know what it's like to grow up as a female, with all the social influences, emotional and hormonal differences, communicating differently, interacting and bonding with other people differently, the list just goes on and on. So, no, we don't know what it takes to be a woman. We know that certain things are harder, and others are easier. And we know that for the most part, people usually only see the 'greener' side of other's lives, which is what you suggest (but then again, women see the opposite view on the 'grass is greener' theory as well).
The grass is simply a different shade.
What you see here on this forum, anonymous GG, is a place which was created as a 'feel good' spot where men can overindulge themselves and not be called out on it (well, usually not, anyway), the 'one big slumber party' you think you see. In reality, it's not that at all. There's no real bonding going on here. It's all superficial expressions of what we're simply not allowed to express ANYWHERE ELSE. When you realise that one in forty men you meet is a crossdresser (and I bet you have no idea which ones we are), you'll understand how much we keep it all under control on a day to day basis.
The concept of men who say they are strictly heterosexual, but want to be with men when they are dressed as women, is foreign to me, because I don't experience that. Either you want to have sex with men, or you don't. If you do, then by definition, that is homosexual activity. What you are probably seeing here, GG, is the huge amount of pressure that society exerts on men in the form of religious and social stigmas when it comes to homosexuality. Sexuality, after all, is a bell curve (albeit skewed towards one end of the spectrum); few are completely at one end or another. But we're forced to behave that way, lest the wrath of society, family, friends take it's toll on us for not fitting into the role they want us to.
I've got all these thoughts, and nowhere to put them. If after reading my bio (link below) you have any questions, I will be happy to offer any insights that I can.

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Originally Posted by Suzy Satin

Yes that is exactly what I meant. The human brain is so complex and we know so little about it. I do not buy into the notion that this is something that is acquired or a result of society or due to trauma in early childhood. I had none of this and started dressing at age 5, 43 years of pure heaven and hell. My brain is intersexxed while my body is male.

BTW, the term Hermaphrodite has also been used to describe the human condition, it is just not scientifically correct and not used anymore. It comes from greek mythology Hermaphroditus.

Thanks SUZY for understanding what I meant.


Suzy

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Wow thats really convoluted but whatever. I only brought it up because it is my understanding that the word hermaphrodite is offensive to inter-sexed people.

First... Some Background...
I guess I identify as a crossdresser, as I mix my clothing, Male and Female. Personally I dislike the label crossdresser but that's my issue and off topic for this thread. I'm not married or have an SO, significant other, in my life. I'm in my mid fifties and am out in public now presenting as a bi-gender or two-spirited person for over a year or so. Forgive if I have my dates wrong. But I was crossdressing in private since I was a young child. I have never been able to stop, and I have tried many times. But now I've accepted this in my life and this has made me a happier person.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous GG
I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman.

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For me, I'm not trying to be a woman. Then again, I'm not trying to be a man either. I'm trying to be myself which I can't do in the context of just a typical man. It's not me. But I also know I have much to learn when it comes to femininity and this side of myself. I see how this world is male dominated... and women, despite many gains, are still oppressed and stereotyped. The issue is still too real and discouraging.

I wish we were all equals and shared in the tasks and responsibilities of life on an equal footing with respect. But we all know that's not happening at present. I just wish to learn... fight for the oppressed... and keep an open mind. i won't stop learning in this life.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous GG
...It's more than just clothing, shoes, makeup, and female parts. I've read how some of you want to embrace being a female but I've only read posts on things like pretty panties, stockings, and dresses or which female body part would some of you like to have etc,...

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Clothing for me becomes a symbol of my feminine side. Yes... you're right... it's more than the clothing.

If I wore a male black suit, coat, tie and white shirt, it more like a costume. It's a power suit meant to symbolize masculinity and all those trapping. If I wore a casual polo shirt and male jeans I have changed to a symbolic casual male outfit.

Now... just take of my pants and wear a neutral angle length skirt and I'm now in mixed gender clothing is the western countries. I'm considered a crossdresser and some might even think I'm gay. But I'm not a woman nor am I trying to be. I just have on a long skirt.

Now... I do also under-dress everyday... and for me that is also symbolic. I have a mental need to do it. And so this sets me a part from men who just wear a skirt.

The clothing I mix is a variety and currently WITHOUT makeup. Also no wig despite my balding head.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous GG
...which makes me feel this is very physical and like one big slumber party on the forums. ...

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I won't deny that I love the sensuous feel of clothing. Women's clothes are softer fabrics and much wider variety of colors and patterns. Men's clothing tends to be rough and much fewer colors to chose from. This was very evident to me as a child and I felt was very unfair to be deny the choice as a male.

I also won't deny I'm a sensual being. What I do for fun, as long as I'm not harming others and respect their wishes, should be OK. I respect myself and forgive myself. I am a writer of fiction and have a good imagination. I enjoy a good laugh. But I have noticed we take each other way to seriously and do not always respect each other.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous GG
Sure some might admire women and I get that. I admire a lot of people too, but in turn I don't try and imitate them by dress etc.

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I wish you could understand that if I did not have to dress I would not. It is not a choice for me... it is a need. If I could take a single pill or wave a magic wand and not feel the need to dress I would. But after over fifty years of denying myself, throwing away the clothing only to buy them again... I have accepted in myself that this is who I am. This is the way I was made. I embrace this side of myself by wearing some clothing that is considered feminine to be myself.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous GG
On another note, do you really think that the grass is greener on the other side...

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I live in a rural setting and have watched this play out over and over again with the wildlife around me. I guess it is human nature to believe the neighbor's grass is better than your field. And from a distance it seems possible. But walk over and you see the same issues. Now turn around and it's a mirror of where I just was.

In society today I'm positive woman have it harder because of how society has treated them for many generations. So no... the grass is not greener.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous GG
There are many responses, mostly from CDs:
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...asts-or-Vagina

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If it were possible... I think we should experience life in each gender, man or woman. Perhaps then we might respect each other. That was my reason... and fantasy at the moment to post in that thread.

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Originally Posted by Anonymous GG
And also, she refers to the many posts throughout the MtF section where CDs say they are hetero in guy mode, but they want to be with men when dressed.

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I'm not in guy or girl mode. I'm presenting as both. Yea... what does that all mean? It does mean different things to different people and cultures. But I think you mean am I heterosexual when dressed. The answer is I'm attracted to women... not men.

any GG needs to understand a few things in general:

we're all different, there is not a single explanation to understand CDing, I don't really think that any CD is able to exactly determine why he feels the desire to dress, it's not a man's choice to dress, dressing from time to time (very different for each CD) will make your partner happier and easier to get along with.......

Keep that in mind

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Originally Posted by adrienner99

No, I don't know what it takes to be a woman. And of course it's not easy--nor is being a man, which is what I have to struggle with every second. "Being" a woman truly involves (in part) things like pregnancy and cramps. No thanks to either. I think I dress because I love women's clothes the same way some women do, and maybe fashion designers do. When I dress, I feel "This is right. This is me." No doubt there is more to it than that, but please don't begrudge us our love of things feminine, even if we don't know "what it takes" to be female.

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Adrienne,
That's it in a nutshell. I never want to have babies, sex with men, periods, and all the pain and worry that goes along with it.
I have a SO that does all of that and I try and give her my 100 percent support.
I am a man who likes to emulate women and I SOMETIMES wish I had boobs, long hair, makeup and nice manicured fingernails.

Personally I have no interest in wearing makeup, wigs, etc or the whole 'female experience' thing. I'm just a guy who likes wearing lingerie. In this respect, I seem different to most people here but hey, that's life!

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Originally Posted by TxKimberly

You know what I find interesting? I think it's interesting how hostile some of the responses to this thread are. I wonder why? That's not sarcasm - I honestly wonder why some seem to have a hostile undertone.

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Kimberly,

My last response could definitely be viewed as hostile. In fact, it reflects exasperation over the breezy remark at the end of the OP'ers response, essentially dismissing the importance of her own comments in the OP. Paraphasing: "Oh, I didn't mean ALL women, just THOSE women, you know, the ones I MEANT ..."

Or something.

Lea