Lying

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Originally Posted by Rianna Humble

Are you honestly trying to tell me that someone who has been cross-dressing since that age and who is now in their 20s does not understand what cross-dressing is?

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Please tell me: What is crossdressing? Is it a psychological illness? Is it a sin? Is it a fetish? Is it a perversion? Is it a kind of bizarre way of getting oneself off? Or is it just a way to relax? Is it a way to get in touch with one's feminine side, perhaps? Or is it an indication that one has a subconscious desire to transition and live life as a woman?

If you can answer that question for each individual here, you need to hang out a shingle and start doing therapy.

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Originally Posted by Rianna Humble

You are the only person introducting the concept of malicious intent to "spring" CD'ing on someone.

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Well, if a CDer is being accused of concealing the truth before marriage, lying, and therefore hurting their spouse by not revealing CDing until decades into the marriage there is obviously malicious intent.

A lot of us have memories of cross-dressing "roots" in their youth. I do as well. I had no concept, however, that what I did had a name, it was just an inordinate interest in things feminine. How does an inexperienced twentysomething male who is already testosterone-impaired separate an fascination in feminine items from the normal biological facination in females? To me they were one and the same. Of course I was very aware of the societal edict that "Men Never Discuss Such Things" and I dutifully obeyed. My point is that the act of trying on a pair of Mommy's pantyhose at age 5, 10, or 15 does not mean that a person internally acknowledges that they are a crossdresser from that moment forward. They might spend decades pushing those feeling into the deepest recesses of their minds before reality catches up with them.

You may well be right that some CDers in their 20s are more comfortable and accepted than when I was in my 20s. Our culture has changed markedly. I don't doubt, though, that others are feeling pretty much the same thing I experienced. Old prejudices die hard and I really don't see FB to be a reason that younger, computer savvy people aren't here in nearly the numbers expected. I'm on some car forums and the age demographic is actually stronger in the 20-40 segment than it is in the 50-70 segment and FB exists for these folks as well.

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Originally Posted by Rianna Humble

I don't know where you get this idea that you need to postpone your wedding for decades in order to be honest with your chosen spouse about an activity that you have already been doing for over a decade.

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You do if the standard of honesty is that you have to resolve all internal doubts before marriage. I'm a reasonably well-educated person, yet for some reason I didn't really understand or come to terms with CDing until nearly two decades into my marriage. Life got in the way.

Maybe they should have a large committee compile an extensive list of "sins" and give both prospective spouses a polygraph test before marriage:

...
533. Have you ever been late with your rent check?
534. Has anyone complained that you snore?
535. Do you really want 2 children?
536. Have you ever worn clothing of the opposite sex?
537. Have you ever gotten drunk?
538. Do you step on spiders?
...

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Originally Posted by Sophie86

Please tell me: What is crossdressing? Is it a psychological illness? Is it a sin? Is it a fetish? Is it a perversion? Is it a kind of bizarre way of getting oneself off? Or is it just a way to relax? Is it a way to get in touch with one's feminine side, perhaps? Or is it an indication that one has a subconscious desire to transition and live life as a woman?

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I haven't been keeping up with this thread too much, other than scan for flaming. :p Frankly, I think it's a circular argument. It won't be resolved, simply because the subject is too broad, there are too many factors that come into play, and everyone is approaching it from their own personal perspective.

Having said this and in answer to what you've just posted, I can only say that my SO told me about the CDing in the very beginning. He sent me a link that gave me a summary definition. As we got to know one another better, I had a lot of questions. There were many that he could not answer, and when he didn't know the answers, he just told me so.

It's understandable when a spouse doesn't have all the definitions for himself. But, not having a perfect handle on the CDing should not preclude someone from telling his partner about it, providing of course he has a feeling that it is not going away. But again, I'm sure you'll come back with an example about a CDer who is at the very beginning of his exploration and who hasn't even had the thought of completely dressing yet. If you do, it will prove my point that it is impossible to come to a meeting of the minds about this since again, there are just too many variables. :p

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Originally Posted by Sophie86

Please tell me: What is crossdressing? Is it a psychological illness? Is it a sin? Is it a fetish? Is it a perversion? Is it a kind of bizarre way of getting oneself off? Or is it just a way to relax? Is it a way to get in touch with one's feminine side, perhaps? Or is it an indication that one has a subconscious desire to transition and live life as a woman?

If you can answer that question for each individual here, you need to hang out a shingle and start doing therapy.

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Try asking the right question. You were not asking "What" but "Why". Funnily enough the two words do not mean the same thing.

You knew what you were doing even if - as I said earlier - you did not know why.

At my most charitable, I would have to rate your answer as disingenuous.

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Originally Posted by Rianna Humble

At my most charitable, I would have to rate your answer as disingenuous.

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That's exactly what I thought about your response to Eryn. When she said, "many of us weren't aware enough to understand what CDing was before marriage," did you really think she meant we didn't know it was wearing the clothing of the opposite sex? It looked to me like you were taking advantage of the way she worded the statement to score an easy (yet irrelevant) point.

What I got from Eryn's statement was this: The reality is we don't understand why we do it, we don't understand what it means about who we are, and we don't understand what it portends about our future. Ashamed of it, we explain it to ourselves in the most minimalist, dismissive terms possible, and hope like hell that we're going to grow out of it.

In the meantime, we don't tell anyone, because once you tell someone, that's who you will be to that person forever. Every time they look at you, that's what they will see. I did not want to be the guy who got his jollies by dressing like a girl to anyone, but especially not to her.

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Originally Posted by Sophie86

...What I got from Eryn's statement was this: The reality is we don't understand why we do it, we don't understand what it means about who we are, and we don't understand what it portends about our future. Ashamed of it, we explain it to ourselves in the most minimalist, dismissive terms possible, and hope like hell that we're going to grow out of it.

In the meantime, we don't tell anyone, because once you tell someone, that's who you will be to that person forever...

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Sophie, one reason I like to participate in conversations like this is that every once in a while someone helps me to understand more about myself. Your interpretation of my statement helped me to do just that. Thank you!

Hugs, Eryn

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Originally Posted by Sophie86

In the meantime, we don't tell anyone, because once you tell someone, that's who you will be to that person forever. Every time they look at you, that's what they will see. I did not want to be the guy who got his jollies by dressing like a girl to anyone, but especially not to her.

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It is true that the CDing is an important facet of my SO, but so are other aspects of his personality, his chosen profession, and all his other likes and dislikes. When I think of my SO all of these things form the whole. I don't strictly see him as a CDer since he is so many other things too. I'm guessing this is true for other GGs who are in relationships with CDers, given some adjustment time after the initial disclosure, of course. :)

One thing you've said sends up a flag for me: the fact that you didn't want to be diminished in your wife's eyes. I've read many posts in this forum since I've joined and this is a common sentiment among the CDers who haven't come out to their wives. Might this be an important reason for the non-disclosure?

Honestly, I think that women are much more forgiving than men in this regard. I don't think we are as trans/homophobic. Just read all the stories from the CDers in this forum who go out and interact with GGs and who seldom experience issues with them. Either a wife will accept, or she won't. If she does, she will not begin to see her husband as a woman (or a man who wants to be a woman, or a "pervert" as you suggest) just because he CDs, unless of course he cannot achieve a balance with it and he wants to spend most of his time either dressed or engaged in CDing related activities.

I am so thankful my spouse knows and is very supportive. We went and had a manicure together at her suggestion and I had a fullset of nails and polish done. It was fun! Things were much more difficult before I told her.

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Originally Posted by Sophie86

In the meantime, we don't tell anyone, because once you tell someone, that's who you will be to that person forever. Every time they look at you, that's what they will see. I did not want to be the guy who got his jollies by dressing like a girl to anyone, but especially not to her.

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How little credit you give others on this. You are not just one thing, you are an amalgam of everything. Even if you think of yourself as a bad person (which is what your statement reflects) this is not the whole of how a person sees you, especially a person who loves you. If your marriage maintains you to always be the knight on the white charger then one day that charger is going to throw you. You may maintain that illusion (which I believe is the crux of the OP) for only so long.

I am many things to many people and many of those things I know are illusions the other person has built. My best friend insists that I wore all white the first time he saw me 'en femme'. I have one white dress and it has had a broken zipper since the first time I thought I could get into it, so I know that isn't true. But I won't dispel that idea. On the same subject, since I came out to that same friend he has added the crossdressing to his list of who I am and he doesn't dwell on it. He does joke (just as he jokes about my bad golf game) but he has also asked questions that were to help him see what it is I am. My SO's have always seen me as a whole person and not just a "man"nequin in women's clothing. If nothing else on these boards I would like to be able to help at least one person see that the fears that they harbor over all this can be far worse than the reality. The fear that you will be looked at differently...well that happens every day. Every day you add to how those around you perceive you. I wonder, is being seen as

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the guy who got his jollies by dressing like a girl

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worse than the guy who sneaked around and hid something from his spouse?

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

How little credit you give others on this.

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I believe I know my wife better than you do. You can't possibly imagine how hung up she was when we met. That's not just me saying that either. When she looks back on it now, she says, "Damn, I was really hung up." She has said more than once that if I had told her about myself back then, it would have made her run the other way, whereas now she's perfectly fine. She has done a huge amount of growing in the intervening years, as have I. You could say we have grown up together. Speaking of which...

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Even if you think of yourself as a bad person (which is what your statement reflects)

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I thought of myself as a bad person. I thought I was weak and unmanly. I now think differently.

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this is not the whole of how a person sees you, especially a person who loves you.

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To me, it seemed like a very small part of who I was, but I did not think anyone else would be able to see it that way.

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If nothing else on these boards I would like to be able to help at least one person see that the fears that they harbor over all this can be far worse than the reality.

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A noble goal, which I fully support. I don't advise anyone to do what I did. Take the risk, and tell her.

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I wonder, is being seen as worse than the guy who sneaked around and hid something from his spouse?

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Fortunately, she's not bothered about either one. :)

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AS for the quiting of the CDing how naive can some of you be.

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I just have to respond to this one.
It's that hindsight is 20/20 vision. Sure, NOW we know it isn't something we can quit. But I was able to successfully go without crossdressing for many years at a time when everything else in my life was going well; so I logically thought I would be able to do it indefinitely should things continue, well, well enough. I mean my life was never perfect, but as long as things were going reasonably normal there wasn't an issue. However I lost my job, had to take another at 40% of the previous salary, wound up working and going to school every single day and evening of the week, so the stress level went through the roof, and my support system collapsed. So it was only when I was already having trouble in the marriage that the crossdressing reared it's head again.

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

How little credit you give others on this...
If nothing else on these boards I would like to be able to help at least one person see that the fears that they harbor over all this can be far worse than the reality. The fear that you will be looked at differently...well that happens every day. Every day you add to how those around you perceive you. I wonder, is being seen as worse than the guy who sneaked around and hid something from his spouse?

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Lorileah, I know that you have got a great deal of common sense, and with talking about fears I think you've hit on a very important nub.

It is SO hard to control an emotional reaction to things. Rationally, I am incredibly loving and supportive of Crystal. Occasionally, emotionally, I find myself overwhelmed by something that just catches me off guard. We human beings are emotional creatures. It is so hard to overcome that sometimes. I once had the sight of my boyfriend's painted toes throw me into panic mode, despite the fact that rationally I knew having them painted or not changed nothing about who he was as a person. Similarly, I'm waaay too embarrassed to let him read stories I wrote when I was younger, despite the fact that rationally I know he's not going to despise me as a person if they're not to his taste. You can know facts in your head all your life long; that doesn't mean that the pit in your stomach will feel that same sentiment.

Thinking of younger CDs, there's at least one other forum I can think of which is used by some pretty young TGs (mainly TS) on Gaia.com. Well, it's a thread in a forum, but it has a lot of great links and a long list of regulars. I'm sure there are other places out there as well.