bravo bravo hahahahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by RobynP
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bravo bravo hahahahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by RobynP
I found one of my referance sources. One of the New Scientist articles I mentuoned before is pgs 28-31 in the 19th July 2008 Issue where it's the cover-story "Brains Apart two sexes divided by grey matter". It mentions particularly differences found in pain-processing in males and females brains and yet most research studies are done only on males and male animals.
"Every year or two we write a paper that says that something someone reported earlier is actually only true in males. We keep making people look bad. They are missing stuff completely."
I believe that it is something that starts before birth, because I started around 5 or 6, and a 5 or 6 year old does not all of a sudden decide "Hey I want to wear dresses, and High heels!" That is not a choice that a child that age makes!!
On a night where there isn't jack-squat on TV, this forum comes to my rescue. This thread is more entertaining than anything I've watched in quite a while. So, while most of this stuff is only my opinion (I never was much for saving sources of information I've read over all these years), I still have to contribute my two cents. And so......
Never. For some, it’s a self discovery thing, for others, a way to remove blame from themselves for the crossdressing behavior which they feel guilty about.Quote:
Aurora 27 wrote “Oh my god - when will people let the nature verse nurture thing go?“
With possibly the exception of the nazi experiments done in the early 20th century, there have not been any long term experiments of any sort done on human beings using control groups to form and/or prove genetic predispositions towards behaviors (or a whole lot of other things, for that matter). And I don’t foresee any being done in the near future, either. Everything we know is based on passive observation of very limited numbers of ‘test subjects’. World population is what, approaching 7 billion? And how big is the largest observed group examined genetically under any type of scientific conditions?Quote:
There have been genes found related to TS
They disappeared because if you’re going to wear a skirt, you may as well just go to chadwicks like I did and buy them (I’ve got a bunch of plaid skirts). There’s a much better selection than those for men, and probably cheaper too. But like the ‘shoulder bags’ created for men which are for all intents and purposes just another name for a purse, they are viewed as an excuse for a guy to embrace something feminine while fooling only himself that it’s a normal part of a male wardrobe or accessory.Quote:
Txrobinm wrote: “men's skirts appeared on the runways of NY a few years ago- what happened to them?”
And, “Anyone know where I can get a nice kilt in forest green"
Uh, no. It implies that they may be somehow related to the same cause, but not necessarily caused by it.Quote:
Batty wrote: According to things I've read on Zoe Brains blog both Aspergers and different handedness are dissproportionatly found amongst Intersex and Transexual people. Does that not back a biological causation?
No one has black hair. Perhaps very very dark brown hair, though. We all have the same pigments, just different amounts of them.Quote:
and: Most people are not white. Most people have black hair. Yet white skin and blonde hair are not abnormalities but common variations.
And some do not. So, where’s the connection? Nowhere. It may be one of the many influences that contribute to a tendency towards homosexuality, or it may not. There’s no proof either way.Quote:
Katie B wrote, regarding brain structure: some gay men have a typically female structure
From an ‘big picture’ viewpoint, possibly, but from a molecular level, probably not. I don’t discriminate between macro and microscopic ‘structure’. So while I don’t believe this to be correct either, I don’t have the necessary links to support myself. But I do remember reading (many, many times) that brain development and connections (yes, I do feel that those ‘connections’ are part of the structure) are influenced by whether you are x or y, and probably by many other genes as well, not to mention hormone secretions which are sexually (genetically) influenced. Brains don’t stop ‘forming’ after birth; female (and I suppose some male) newborns show different behaviors than most males. Whether it comes from a maternal hormone ‘wash’ or one of the infant’s own body is still not determined. So, the ‘build’ is usually just a little bit different. The key word there is usually, and not always.Quote:
Satrana wrote: but rather all brains are built to the same design
Perhaps none, but then again, perhaps having earlobes is connected in some unknown way to other advantageous things genetically. As above, only experimental breeding could show that, and we don’t experiment on humans, so we may never know.Quote:
Elaine B wrote: What biological or social advantage does it provide anybody to have earlobes?
As far as I remember, when subjects are in an environment without outside triggers to tell us when to wake and when to sleep, our ‘clock’ is a few hours and minutes longer than 24 hours. This may be related to earth having a longer ‘day’ before such events as massive asteroid impacts which affect the earth’s rate of spin, and changed the length of earth's ‘day’ eons ago. But the 'clock' is still functioning on that prehistoric rate.Quote:
previously quoted as: Do we have a biological clock? The time we know - hours and minutes - is purely artificial
Yes, but it’s much more enlightening this way. Because we never know when some new idea will pop up out of debates such as these.Quote:
Avril wrote: Oh my sisters, please, please, stop analysing yourselves and just get on with it!
Hormonal is a result of genetic. Chromosomes, mom’s or those of the fetus, determine every physical developmental thing about us. Lifestyle choice is based on choices determined by on past experience influences (behavioral) and inbred (genetically influenced) preferences.Quote:
Katie B wrote: I'll throw in a single fact that seems to me to support the hormonal theory. ...is genetic (chromosomal)
...is congenital but not genetic (hormonal)
...is socially-induced (behavioural)
...is a lifestyle choice (pure free-will) [Thank you Nicki]
...or is a mix of the above
Androgens influence the brain of the embryo around the third month of pregnancy. A further burst of androgens, leading to a masculinisation of the "gender map", occurs between the second and twelfth week after birth. There is no similar phenomenon in women.
This does not necessarily have anything to do with crossdressing, or any other behavior. Despite my mom’s dressing me up as a girl when I was very young, I had no desire to crossdress until I was coerced to do so by sexual abuse many years later, nor did I self identify as female until much later. I felt like a boy, looked like a boy, acted like a boy, thought like a boy, was attracted to affection from females like a boy (although I think that may partially have been socialization, wanting affection and seeing it on TV primarily between opposite sexes). My crossdressing is a result of intense conditioning from outside, and within, during developmental years that altered how I self identify, and how I respond to needing affection. While I don’t keep track of every other ‘gender disoriented’ person, I suppose you could find many others with similar, but not exactly the same, experiences to mine if you searched long enough.
The problem is that some of us inhabit both groups to some degree, and often for different reasons, not always nature, not always nurture, sometimes a mix of both. It’s just another incidence of society wanting to categorize everyone into some type of ‘box’ so they know how to ‘deal’ with us. Many people want to see others as the same as themselves, to support how they feel about themselves; best exampled by someone who is TS and states that we are all TS, just some in denial.Quote:
Satrana wrote: It should be pointed out that the causes behind TS and CD are almost certainly quite different from one another so although the two groups share the same predicament and feelings, the causation factors are not shared. TS is a gender identity issue while CD is a gender role issue.
Right now, I think we are ‘devolving’. See the movie, ‘Idiocracy’. Morons appear to be reproducing more than intellectuals.Quote:
The creation of the human mind is not progress?
Now getting down off of soapbox.
Just ran into a new article on the reserch into the genes that cause puberty http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl..._gam_mostemail
Quote:
Dr. Topaloglu said this is evidence that there are likely to be several genes involved in sparking puberty.
"I don't think there's only one player to explain this complex system," he said. "There's probably 20."
I believe that it is something that you are born with, namely the way your brain is 'wired'. My first crossdressing experience was at age 3, initiated by me, no one asked me to. I dont get any sexual gratification out of it. I think that I should have been born a girl but I am only now coming to terms with it after years of trying to supress it.:sad: