Crossdressing a lifestyle choice or genetic?

[suzy]

I tend to believe that Katie B. is in the ball park regarding the best answer to this question. I have no idea but can tell you that in my case at least, my mother expected a girl and wanted a girl. She had only selected girl names and she was so dissappointed when I was born a male. She had not chosen a male name nor given it any thought. The nurse told her she would not be allowed to take me home from the hospital until she had named me ( Jokingly, I'm sure).

In my earliest memories, my mother had dressed me in girl clothes on many occasions, but as I got older and began maturing she stopped and I grew up as a young man, joined the military and when I got out took on a tough manly job and fought the urges to dress for many years before I succumbed.

Today, retired, I feel that I am a male with a unique feminine side and I enjoy both sides, although, I favor the female side more and more as I get up in my years.

[battybattybats]

yes in size, shape, color etc but not in structure. Variations in structure is a central component of species identification. A minor alteration of a bone joint for example would already define a new species.

Yet that is often a problem for palentologists. What were thought to be seperate species have turned out to be juveniles and adults of the same species or males and females of the same species.

I expect future archaeologist species might well consider there to be two species of humans because of the long big toe and short big toe variations.

[Lisa Catherine]

I myself remember wanting to dress up and be one of the girls as early as kindergarten, and I have always been heterosexual, but whenever I see a woman attractively dressed, I look at her with desire, and I wish I could wear her clothes as well as she does!!

[Nicki B]

Most assuredly it is! Having once been able to do both and knowing a left-handed calligrapher I know this for certain! As your hand is passing over the wet ink even with a biro you end up with smudges. Left-handed writers writing left to right are substantially ergonomically disadvantaged!

Indeed.. When writing with one's left hand, what you have just written is immediately then obscured by that hand.

Much of the world is built favouring those with a master right-hand - tools, weapons, computer keyboards, the controls in a car, doors, watches, even knives and forks.. Left-handed people just have to learn to adapt, which is where the term 'cack-handed' comes from. The suggestion that they choose to stay that way is, frankly, offensive?

It is, literally (as my previous links showed), down to the way their brains are hard-wired. Satrana is suggesting that the 'hard-wiring' has no genetic basis, which is unproven and, IMHO unlikely, at least.

Any of that sound familiar to anyone else?

[battybattybats]

It's worth considering that there are different ways something can be 'genetic'.

It can be an hereditary trait that runs in families, like eye colour, skin colour, hair colour, height, body shape and a variety of things where depending on which genes you get from which parent and whether those are dominant genes, recessive or some of the more complex ones will determine the trait you possess.

These traits are often found in much greater numbers in certain populations.

Everyone has the gene that causes eye colour. The mutated varient that causes blue eyes or other variations is not evenly spread accross the planet (though increased travel and immigration is changing that fast).

As handedness is not found in hereditary lines or geographical groupings but instead in roughly even proportions everywhere that does not make it not genetic, but certainly not a bloodline trait.

Instead it may be caused by a common variation of the activity of a ubiquitous or nearly so gene. A frequent error in the copying of a fragile gene protein, a regular variation in some cycle or function or a gene that only activates a certain percentage of the time... there are quite a few possibilities. Genes are almost always involved somewhere somehow but not always hereditary genes.

Heck, maybe left handedness (or CDing) is caused by a certain degree of Toxoplasmosis Gondii infection in pregnant mothers! Thats a beahviour-influencing mind-control parasite that reproduces in cats guts but that influences rats at least to make them like cats so they can get into the cats guts to breed. A large number of people have Toxoplasmosis Gondii and some claim that their behaviour and personality and reaction time and mental health are all effected. Dont be afraid of cats because of it either, unless you eat cat poo if you get it its likely from poorly cooked meat.

In which case the cause would ultimately still be genetic, the consequences of the genes of the parasite though.

Regarding cures for homosexuality and/or crossdressing. Taken via http://aebrain.blogspot.com/2008/11/...nksgiving.html

Next, he noted the advantages of “electrical aversion” in offering greater “control” over timing. He described the treatment of a patient.
“The conditioning stimuli were pictures of women wearing panties which were followed by the unconditioned stimulus, electric shock. The shock level was set so the patient found it so uncomfortable, he wanted it stopped. In addition to seeing pictures, he was instructed to handle panties and to imagine himself wearing them. After 41 sessions, he said he was no longer troubled by the “fetish” but a month later, it spontaneously recovered.”

You see... it didn't work. They knew it didn't work. So they upped the currents, almost to the point of charring the flesh. This wasn't "ECT", electro-convulsive therapy under anaesthetic, the idea was to intentionally inflict pain. To Torture into compliance. Not in one session, or two, or three, but in dozens of torture sessions, 41 in the case mentioned. And it still didn't work.

Finally, Dr. Langevin introduced a newer form of “shame aversion therapy” used on a “transvestite:”
“the patient was required to crossdress before a disinterested group of men and women who watched him without reaction or comment. … In this case, shame replaces electric shock … the patient was evidently experiencing shame. He was in tears as he crossdressed and had a look of anguish on his face. He attempted suicide the following day according to the investigator.”

[Nicki B]

From the rules of medical ethics - 'First, do no harm'....

[Shawnacdin]

Recently my SO and I have found out I have low Testostrone due a undecended testicle. Because I have low Test, I have more estrogene in my body. I truely believe because I have low Test I like to CD. This is ok with me because I love to dress and that is who I am.
Shawna

P.S. Sorry my spelling sucks!!

[sinead]

It is the way I am, the amount of times have attempted to give it up which is impossible and expensive, I have now accepted who I am and much happier for it

[maid phylis]

dear emmi,i also believe i was born with whatever gene that gave me and mad me what i am today a crossdresser.from day one the first time i tried on my mothers stockings i knew i was different and whatever you try to do to make it go away doesnt work so we all should enjoy the wonderfull ridephylisanne

[Bootsiegalore]

It has to be genetic. I have been doing it since 5.

I do not beleive it is a behavior at that age.

[RobynP]

It has to be genetic. I have been doing it since 5.

I do not beleive it is a behavior at that age.

It has to be genetic! My mom, my sisters, and I all love wearing dresses!

Robyn P.

[Raquel June]

"Genetics" is an overused term. Just because something is more of a drive than a personal choice doesn't necessarily mean it's ingrained in your DNA.

A lot of gay people want to find a magical "gay gene," and a lot of transsexuals like to argue that they are intersexed (but refuse to get genetic testing done because they're afraid of the results). I think it's silly.

Just be yourself. Don't act all guilty about who you are. You shouldn't have to justify your life by saying, "It's not my fault! I was born this way!"

[Ashley_1962]

genetic.. with our 'ability to resist' fading as our tosterone levels decrease when we hit our late 30's/40's..

[DinaMature]

Speaking for my own experience, I'd have to say my upbringing has had a huge impact.
I'm sensitive and reasonably creative, but mostly the female/ male roles and role models in my early life were a mess.

[immike]

I'm a lifelong crossdresser. I love dressing like a girl. I did not choose to be this way. I am not a sissy! I feel this is a part of my genetics and had I not had been born with this I would not dress. To me it's simple. I don't believe crossdressers choose to live like this. I believe we are born as crossdressers!

Are you a crossdresser by choice or do you believe in the genetic factor?

emmi

I agree with EMMI!

[LoriFlores]

genetic

[DinaMature]

It has to be genetic! My mom, my sisters, and I all love wearing dresses!

Robyn P.

bravo bravo hahahahaha

[battybattybats]

I found one of my referance sources. One of the New Scientist articles I mentuoned before is pgs 28-31 in the 19th July 2008 Issue where it's the cover-story "Brains Apart two sexes divided by grey matter". It mentions particularly differences found in pain-processing in males and females brains and yet most research studies are done only on males and male animals.

"Every year or two we write a paper that says that something someone reported earlier is actually only true in males. We keep making people look bad. They are missing stuff completely."

[FromTheSouth]

I believe that it is something that starts before birth, because I started around 5 or 6, and a 5 or 6 year old does not all of a sudden decide "Hey I want to wear dresses, and High heels!" That is not a choice that a child that age makes!!

[sometimes_miss]

On a night where there isn't jack-squat on TV, this forum comes to my rescue. This thread is more entertaining than anything I've watched in quite a while. So, while most of this stuff is only my opinion (I never was much for saving sources of information I've read over all these years), I still have to contribute my two cents. And so......

Aurora 27 wrote “Oh my god - when will people let the nature verse nurture thing go?“

Never. For some, it’s a self discovery thing, for others, a way to remove blame from themselves for the crossdressing behavior which they feel guilty about.

There have been genes found related to TS

With possibly the exception of the nazi experiments done in the early 20th century, there have not been any long term experiments of any sort done on human beings using control groups to form and/or prove genetic predispositions towards behaviors (or a whole lot of other things, for that matter). And I don’t foresee any being done in the near future, either. Everything we know is based on passive observation of very limited numbers of ‘test subjects’. World population is what, approaching 7 billion? And how big is the largest observed group examined genetically under any type of scientific conditions?

Txrobinm wrote: “men's skirts appeared on the runways of NY a few years ago- what happened to them?”
And, “Anyone know where I can get a nice kilt in forest green"

They disappeared because if you’re going to wear a skirt, you may as well just go to chadwicks like I did and buy them (I’ve got a bunch of plaid skirts). There’s a much better selection than those for men, and probably cheaper too. But like the ‘shoulder bags’ created for men which are for all intents and purposes just another name for a purse, they are viewed as an excuse for a guy to embrace something feminine while fooling only himself that it’s a normal part of a male wardrobe or accessory.

Batty wrote: According to things I've read on Zoe Brains blog both Aspergers and different handedness are dissproportionatly found amongst Intersex and Transexual people. Does that not back a biological causation?

Uh, no. It implies that they may be somehow related to the same cause, but not necessarily caused by it.

and: Most people are not white. Most people have black hair. Yet white skin and blonde hair are not abnormalities but common variations.

No one has black hair. Perhaps very very dark brown hair, though. We all have the same pigments, just different amounts of them.

Katie B wrote, regarding brain structure: some gay men have a typically female structure

And some do not. So, where’s the connection? Nowhere. It may be one of the many influences that contribute to a tendency towards homosexuality, or it may not. There’s no proof either way.

Satrana wrote: but rather all brains are built to the same design

From an ‘big picture’ viewpoint, possibly, but from a molecular level, probably not. I don’t discriminate between macro and microscopic ‘structure’. So while I don’t believe this to be correct either, I don’t have the necessary links to support myself. But I do remember reading (many, many times) that brain development and connections (yes, I do feel that those ‘connections’ are part of the structure) are influenced by whether you are x or y, and probably by many other genes as well, not to mention hormone secretions which are sexually (genetically) influenced. Brains don’t stop ‘forming’ after birth; female (and I suppose some male) newborns show different behaviors than most males. Whether it comes from a maternal hormone ‘wash’ or one of the infant’s own body is still not determined. So, the ‘build’ is usually just a little bit different. The key word there is usually, and not always.

Elaine B wrote: What biological or social advantage does it provide anybody to have earlobes?

Perhaps none, but then again, perhaps having earlobes is connected in some unknown way to other advantageous things genetically. As above, only experimental breeding could show that, and we don’t experiment on humans, so we may never know.

previously quoted as: Do we have a biological clock? The time we know - hours and minutes - is purely artificial

As far as I remember, when subjects are in an environment without outside triggers to tell us when to wake and when to sleep, our ‘clock’ is a few hours and minutes longer than 24 hours. This may be related to earth having a longer ‘day’ before such events as massive asteroid impacts which affect the earth’s rate of spin, and changed the length of earth's ‘day’ eons ago. But the 'clock' is still functioning on that prehistoric rate.

Avril wrote: Oh my sisters, please, please, stop analysing yourselves and just get on with it!

Yes, but it’s much more enlightening this way. Because we never know when some new idea will pop up out of debates such as these.

Katie B wrote: I'll throw in a single fact that seems to me to support the hormonal theory. ...is genetic (chromosomal)
...is congenital but not genetic (hormonal)
...is socially-induced (behavioural)
...is a lifestyle choice (pure free-will) [Thank you Nicki]
...or is a mix of the above
Androgens influence the brain of the embryo around the third month of pregnancy. A further burst of androgens, leading to a masculinisation of the "gender map", occurs between the second and twelfth week after birth. There is no similar phenomenon in women.

Hormonal is a result of genetic. Chromosomes, mom’s or those of the fetus, determine every physical developmental thing about us. Lifestyle choice is based on choices determined by on past experience influences (behavioral) and inbred (genetically influenced) preferences.
This does not necessarily have anything to do with crossdressing, or any other behavior. Despite my mom’s dressing me up as a girl when I was very young, I had no desire to crossdress until I was coerced to do so by sexual abuse many years later, nor did I self identify as female until much later. I felt like a boy, looked like a boy, acted like a boy, thought like a boy, was attracted to affection from females like a boy (although I think that may partially have been socialization, wanting affection and seeing it on TV primarily between opposite sexes). My crossdressing is a result of intense conditioning from outside, and within, during developmental years that altered how I self identify, and how I respond to needing affection. While I don’t keep track of every other ‘gender disoriented’ person, I suppose you could find many others with similar, but not exactly the same, experiences to mine if you searched long enough.

Satrana wrote: It should be pointed out that the causes behind TS and CD are almost certainly quite different from one another so although the two groups share the same predicament and feelings, the causation factors are not shared. TS is a gender identity issue while CD is a gender role issue.

The problem is that some of us inhabit both groups to some degree, and often for different reasons, not always nature, not always nurture, sometimes a mix of both. It’s just another incidence of society wanting to categorize everyone into some type of ‘box’ so they know how to ‘deal’ with us. Many people want to see others as the same as themselves, to support how they feel about themselves; best exampled by someone who is TS and states that we are all TS, just some in denial.

The creation of the human mind is not progress?

Right now, I think we are ‘devolving’. See the movie, ‘Idiocracy’. Morons appear to be reproducing more than intellectuals.

Now getting down off of soapbox.

[battybattybats]

Just ran into a new article on the reserch into the genes that cause puberty http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl..._gam_mostemail

Dr. Topaloglu said this is evidence that there are likely to be several genes involved in sparking puberty.

"I don't think there's only one player to explain this complex system," he said. "There's probably 20."

[Carole Cross]

I believe that it is something that you are born with, namely the way your brain is 'wired'. My first crossdressing experience was at age 3, initiated by me, no one asked me to. I dont get any sexual gratification out of it. I think that I should have been born a girl but I am only now coming to terms with it after years of trying to supress it.