Printable View
Is crossdressing for somethe gateway to become transgender/transsexual? Or is it that crossdressers are like the wannabes of the TG/TS? No offenseto anyone about the wannabe. I think this only because there are so many crossdressers that go outside the crossdressing area and go into the TG area. Many people that call themselves crossdressers take hormones or want to have sex surgery. I dont really care I was just wondering what everyone else thinks.
If you "don't really care," then why on earth does it matter to you what other people think. It sounds to me that you are not as yet able to accept yourself and have doubts about your own gender expression. The last thing this community needs is more division and competition and that is exactly what the title of your thread is suggesting. Life is not static; it is always changing. When I was younger, I wanted to be a fireperson, a soldier, an actor, why I even studied for a brief time to become an optometrist. I eventually wound up going into commercial broadcasting and eventually electronic technical services. Even today in my advanced years, I am still discovering new things and new interests. So why would it be any different in this community, as we start exploring gender diversity, that our outlooks and self-perceptions of who we are would't change? My :2c:.
Everyone has their own journey thru life. It may be similar to another's journey, but it is invariably UNIQUE!
And EVERYONE is constantly CHANGING! Even if u don't notice the change!
I started the CD part of my life BACKWARDS from John's post! I originally fantasized about being a woman, having breasts, etc.:o
Now, nearly 12 years later, I have evolved into an over-the-top CD! With virtually NO TG/TS thots!:eek:
I KNOW there's MORE to my CD journey, yet to come!:brolleyes:
And so there is, for EVERYONE READING THIS!:devil:
Holly, Johnboy may indeed have some confusion about his gender expression; hence the questions. I interpreted the "I don't care, just wanna know" statement as wanting to explain that his post wasn't intended to be judgemental.
I'm not a TS, born in the wrong body, wanting to correct the error and make the transition. For those who were, it seems to me that wearing female clothes is logical and necessary, but for them, it's not really about the clothes.
For me, it's about the clothes. I'm a guy who occasionally enjoys dressing and making up.
For others, it may not be so clear cut. Asking questions and getting answers straight from the folks who know is smart and good. I had no inernet, no support group, etc. to deal with my crossdressing desires when I was young.
Problem is, we are often all lumped together and considered the same (sexual deviants) by those who lack knowledge on the matter.
For an extended campaign, I'd lay my money on TG's/TS's, but only if they have a well supplied army. In hand to hand combat, on flat ground, I'd pick the CD's overall.
"many" crossdressers take hormones? I think you'd be surprised how few do. Taking hormones is serious business. It's body altering business.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnboy23
Look, crossdressing isn't a slippery slope. It isn't "Oh my gosh, if I put on those pantyhose in ten years I'll be a woman! And there's nothing I could do to stop it!"
I also would stop worrying about labels. TG means different things to different people. I consider myself transgendered because I am not 100% male. Neither am I 100% female. I'm something inbetween. For me, the best label of that is TG. I also sometimes don't even think I'm a crossdresser. I'm just dressing how I want to dress because that's the gender I want to identify with at that moment in time. If I'm not 100% male, then I'm "crossdressing" when in male mode too. No, I'm just dressing for how I want to express myself at that time, no different than a woman's decision to wear pants or skirt on a particular day.
This is my personal position regarding your issue.
Cross dressing is a behavior and in that regard it is something that I do. It is not me; it is an expression.
TG, on the other hand, is a large part of my very persona. It is a part of who I am. In that regard, TG is a personality dimension.
For some, yes. It can take a long time to sort out one's thoughts and feelings, especially if one is completely "in the closet", with no-one to talk to about the feelings.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnboy23
Some people have very strong feelings about "who they are" and what they want to do about it. For some it's just "doing something that feels good sometimes" and for them there is nothing more to it. But most of us get pretty confused by it all at various times in our life, and the peak of the confusion might suddenly hit one over the head (hard!) when one thought they had everything all settled for years.
In my particular case, I don't generally have "strong feelings" about my dressing, but I have continual low-level urges about it, a continual drain on my happiness and my concentration. And I have found out a lot about myself by looking at what I do not do -- e.g., that I don't bother "studying to be a woman" (e.g., posture, voice, make-up practice, reading about "women's issues", or "women's literature".) So the image of me as a "real woman" is, I deduce, not of high importance to me, and by extension, "transitioning" (with surgery) is not where my head is at: I am probably not "transsexual".
We're all individuals and we're all following our own path through life.
Some undoubtedly go from CD to TS, and some don't. You'll find all opinions and options expressed here, so in a sense it's not much help, because it's you that you're primarily interested in, and nobody else can tell you what your path is going to be.
All we can say is, enjoy the journey!
(And don't feel under any pressure to conform to what anyone else says is the right way.)
Katie and nicole is as far as I read but you two answered nicely. Your right I am not trying to judge just better understand. Katie I believe you are correct crossdressers are indeed very open minded. I would think that there should not be catagories of cding and ts and tg. Just alternative thats what I like to hear. We are all alternative minded
Sometimes the reason people take the term CD when they are in fact wanting to change their gender is cause often times when one claims the label of TS, a lot of people try to argue with that or fill the person with self doubt.
"You are not really a TS if..." type of crap.
I think it is like a lot of things in life - a person doesn't want to advertise themself as something until they are well on the road, advanced.
I guess this whole denial of "right to self-label" is pretty silly. Ever been in the military? I remember our drill instructors saying "You guys aren't real soldiers yet..."
Or even growing up when boys are told "You are not a real man yet" and of course the young men who try so hard to achieve that man status feel discouraged or inadequate.
So for the TS who are not real advanced in transition, they might avoid the TS label lest someone say "You are not a real TS because..."
It kind of bites but you know how people are, always trying to make another person self-doubt.
This thread should have a very different title! As Holly, it is divisive the way it is written!
Being a CD can be the gateway to becoming a TG or TS, but it is not necessarily so. Being a TG or TS is something you are born with. You may start out as a CD because you have not yet recognised the reality of what you are. But a true CD, such as myself, dresses only for the pleasure of wearing feminine clothing. No desire to become a woman, with the problems they have! Sorry, GG's, but you know it is true!
So it is not us versus them! I.E.: CD's vs TG/TS's! As has been stated many times before, we all have alternative lifestyles which mainfest themselves in various ways. Being a CD is just one of my alternatives!! Let's all be one big happy family, not at war that no one will win!!
Marijuana only leads to the harder stuff if you like the feeling enough. Some people just smoke a bit when they're teenagers and give it up. Some people continue into adulthood because they like it enough not to care what others think. Some people do end up sticking needles in their arms, but those are people who were headed that way anyway.
I'm pretty sure there's a metaphor in there somewhere.
Because the word "transgender" is used to cover a wide variety of people, it is called an "umbrella" word. Many different types of people think of themselves as "transgender". Many different types of people are called "transgender". Different English speakers define words in different ways. For these reasons, the term "trans people" is often used.
Some common definitions of the words used in this article are listed here. These are common ways but not agreed to by everyone:
* Sex means whether someone was born with a male or female body.
* Gender means whether a role or way someone acts is masculine or feminine, though it can also mean neither masculine nor feminine.
* Gender identity is a person's sense in their mind of whether they are a man or a woman or something else.
* Binary or "Gender Binary" is the common idea that there are only two groups that a person can belong in: male or female. The "Gender Binary" idea also means that thoughts and actions are also "male or female". At the simplest level, this means that if a male child wants a doll, he is "acting like a girl". If a female child climbs a tree, she is called a "Tomboy". Nowadays, in many societies it is considered wrong to force children into traditional gender roles.
These definitions are important to help understand that what people look like outside (sex) is not always the same as how they feel inside (gender.) Some people do not fit well into the gender binary idea. People who are transgender usually want to be called by the pronoun (ze, he or she among others) that matches their gender identity, so this article will do that.
Who is transgender?
There are many groups who are included under the 'umbrella' of transgender. Some of the bigger groups are:
The artist Marcel Duchamp photographed by the artist Man Ray
* Transsexual – Someone who was born one sex and who has a different gender identity. Transsexual often means those people who take medicines and/or have surgery to change their body to fit their gender identity. For example a person born with a male body who feels inside that she is a woman and has surgery and takes medicines to make her body more female. Some transsexual people do not like this word and just call themselves transgender.
* Transgenderist – Someone who was born one sex but has a different gender identity. However, transgenderists often choose not to take medicines or surgery to change their bodies. Some, however, may try to make small changes to their bodies. They do often live in the other gender role, however (known as crossliving). For example, a person born with a female body who feels that he is a man inside, may act and dress like a man, may choose a job that men usually choose, may be treated as a man by his family and friends.
* Cross-dresser – This is someone who is born one sex but likes to sometimes wear the clothes and act like the other sex. However, this person may not feel like he is the other sex inside.
* Transvestite – This is a kind of cross-dresser who usually likes to cross-dress for sexual excitement. However, this word is used by some people in a negative manner. Some people use it to mean that cross-dressing for sexual pleasure is bad or abnormal.
* Genderqueer – This means someone who uses both male and female roles, look, or actions at the same time. It is not just a person who does not fit in the gender binary. Some genderqueer people reject the whole idea of a gender binary.
* FTM (acronym)– This means 'female-to-male.' It is someone who was born in a female body but who in some way feels or acts male. An FTM person is also sometimes called a transgender man, a transsexual man, or a transman.
* MTF – This means 'male-to-female.' It is someone who was born in a male body but who in some way feels or acts female. An MTF person is also sometimes called a transgender woman, a transsexual woman, or a transwoman.
* Intersex - is a medical word for people who are born with both some male and some female biological traits.
I get sick of hearing this sort of misinformation. Transvestite and cross-dresser mean exactly the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicky_Scot
Yeah, what she said.Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulaJaneThomas
I remember hearing the stereotyped question: "What's the difference between a crossdresser and a transsexual? About 5 years."
THAT is an absolute myth. I have only been "out" for about a year and a half now, and I know a LOT of crossdressers who have been doing it for many years and still have NO desire to transition! For me, it's an outlet for my femme side that I neglected for the majority of my life, and once I let it out, and nurtured it, I found myself enjoying being my male self like I never had before! :hugs:
For me it was crossdressing that led to the start of my transition to female. I have crossdressed on and of again for some 20 years. It started with sneking into my mothers room when I was in pre-school and then to my sisters room when I was older. Every time I give it up and come back it ets stronger and stronger. Now I am in female mode full time at home and seriously thinking about transitioning to female.
Hello JohnBoy23!
For me, crossdressing started my changing gender. I started dressing for sexual gratification. Then I just started dressing to be the best girl I could be. I then started going out and about. I loved dressing and acting more and more feminine. I loved my outfits and worked to perfect my makeup. I'm starting to want to be dressed all the time. It has me thinking that the CD are not against the TG/TS at all. If my perspective and experiences is at all the norm, being a CD may just be a step along the way.
Oh! These labels drive me up the wall! They all seem so specific, yet there are so many shades within them that they are so non-specific as to be nearly useless.There was once a person on another site who, to tack on one of these labels, seemed to be an out and fairly passable "crossdresser", yet was offended when referred to as such. He claimed mightily, "I'm no crossdresser, I'm an Androgyne!", as if being a mere crossdresser was beneath his dignity.
I'm not even sure what I am! Through the years, I'm sure I've referred to myself as cd, tg, tv, even passed myself off as ts. What frickin' difference does it make! Particularly to the general public, who has less of an idea than I do! My ex wife thought she knew. When I told her, "I'm just a crossdresser," she said, "No, you're NOT. You're a WOMAN!" I guess she REALLY didn't see the point in all the needless categories.
I don't understand them and I AM one (of them... I suppose)!
I belong to a number of other groups where topics like this are banned because it simply leads to pointless divisiveness. It's a meaningless debate that mostly causes more heat than light when discussed.
We are all in this boat together.
Hugs...Joni Mari
I am a crossdresser only, but other here have gone further and othrs further yet. We all have our own agendas only you can answer for yourself. P.S. I've been dressing for 50 yrs and don't wish to make any changes, that's me.
I remember when I was about 13 or 14 in about 1969 or 1970 there was just starting to be just a little bit of grudging acceptance in some circles of "transexuals" and "homosexuals". I thought that a lot of people thought that if you dressed you HAD to be one or the other or else you were some kind of kinky person. It was very discouraging and I worried about what others would think which actually I shouldn't! I wasn't aware of the concept of the "crossdresser" until around 1978 or 1979 when I came across some literature that explained about crossdressers and I saw a lot of myself in that particular peice of writing. I will mention that I have gay and TS freinds and I hope it doesn't sound like I'm putting them down.
i crossdress because i want to be a woman, or at least feel like one, and the only way i would get a sex change operation is if some how i have enough money for all the operations, treatments, cloths, etc. everything i would need and still have some left so i dont have to work while im in transition and recovering from surgery etc. and since thats is probably never going to happen then ill just crossdress.
I am a crossdresser who feels the need to express myself beyond the current aspect of maledom.
CD'ing is an "extension" of my personality, not the need to give up one for the other.
I have a childhood friend that did transition to full time TS, and I am not like her. I don't want to give up my male self because I enjoy that aspect yet I enjoy the female style and mentality. Is this what is called bi-gendered? maybe. Nowadays I see myself as a 'cuttlefish'.., a small squid-like sea creature that disguises himself as a female in order to mate with a female while other males are present, but unaware that the female is being mated....stupid squid, ya dumb lug!. :lol:
Women wear attractive clothing with reckless abandon....something I am profoundly jealous of. Nowadays, I want to be in the game.
I agree. The word transvestite when translated literally means "crossdresser." The only real difference between the two words is that transvestite is more often used in a derogatory sense, maybe because due to its latin origins it sounds more like a clinical term.Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulaJaneThomas
I don't think people should just assume that because someone considers themselves a transvestite it means their dressing is partially to get off. Transvestic Festishism and Transvestism aren't the same thing.
Though the only time I do see a distinction in the words is that I often view "Crossdressing" as more of an umbrella term for wearing clothing of the opposite sex, where as transvestism always to me seems like actually dressing as or behaving as one. I wear women's clothes as a man, and I view it as being a crossdresser but calling myself a transvestite never really has clicked for me.
But then Eddie Izzard blows that whole argument out of the water for me when he presents himself as a man in women's clothes but calls himself a transvestite. (ok, an "Executive transvestite.") so maybe it's a generational thing?
I don't really care for categorization or cubby-holing one into a certain niche, tho it is a part of our social psyche in that we love to place everything into some kind of category. However you refer to me, just respect me, as I would respect you (generally speaking). :)
This 'community' has always been divided... I've come to the conclusion it always will. The best you can ever hope for is to find those who mean something to you and keep them close.Quote:
Originally Posted by Holly
We do need contact with other CD's, TS's and hopefully you'll meet some who see beyond the dictionary and see people rather than labels or petty prejudices.
It works both ways and is why I can't do forums anymore. I have a wonderful CD in my life... She has this dodgy old TS and it would seem either one week or another one of us is going to be attacked for what we are labelled rather than who we are and it's boring.
Doesn't make any sense. We're just Debbie and Lisa...
Why is it that neighbours and friends can accept that... but here we're just a CD and a TS and consequently forced to read a near constant stream of thinly veiled bile about one group or the other? Doesn't make sense to me...
It never will.
Well I would not call it a gateway per se.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnboy23
Look at this way -
For [most] CD'ers - Crossdressing is the final destination.
For [most] TS's - Crossdressing is a stop [or path] their train must go through to get to their final destination.
I did consider myself a CD'er for many many years.
But I always knew there was more to it [for me] then just CD'ing [the clothes].
For me [and I'm guessing some other TS's here] CD'ing was a way to deal and cope with this until I could come to terms with and accept that I was/am a TS for myself.
You see - I was not a CD'er who decided one day to become a TS because I liked CD'ing sooooooo much. Noooo! I always was a TS and CD'ing was just a stop, a way, a means for me to see and express what I really was to myself.
CD'ing will usually, most likely, not turn you into a TS. lol
Much in the same way doing "that" will not cause blindness, LOL. :lol2:
I think it is important for our community to get past conformity even with each other, what I mean is, it has been stated many times on this forum that no to TG/TS/CD individuals are the same. Couple that with the fact that we seek out the most open minded people from outside our little world, to be with and interact with.
And yet we become combative, defensive, almost to the point of violence. Or in the case of this forum and others verbally violent. I have been guilty of this I will admit, not something I am proud of.
My point is this I would like to see a community especially here we were all just who we are. Not Daphne the Bi Gender/Genderqueer/TG self described. How about Daphne, Holly,Kelly,Lisa or Tamara or who ever. Wouldn't it be great. With each other do we really need to discuss the difference between the words Transvestite and Crossdresser. Should I the man who sometimes is desperate almost to tears to be a girl, look upon my Transexual friends any differently and label them differently and say to my wife "look at least I am not like them" Should they say "well Daphne you don't want to transition your not like us do not come over any more" I realize this all sounds a bit childish. But it happens all the time. And these types of threads do nothing to help heal those divisions.
We are the minority group that is hated the most! The per capita murder rate in the USA is one in 18,000 the same statistic for TG people is one in 12. There are not a whole lot of people who will go out of their way for our community. We can't afford any more divisiveness.
Yes there are times when we need to use the words to explain etc etc. I am a realist after all. But to each other. We should just be who we are.
It is ok to ask questions even tough ones don't get me wrong I am certainly not shy about that.
I did not mean to offend or single anyone out with this post it is just how I feel. If I did I am truly sorry. I also realize that several posts in this thread have already said much of what I am saying. Holly, Lisa and others. But it can't be stated enough.
I don't see the animosity, we're supposed to support each other regardless if we're a CD or TS. I will always help a fellow TS or CD out no matter what.
I agree with Katie to a point. There are times when the general terms are useful. On this board, for example. When one of us describes ourselves as one or the other, we all pretty much understand what's being said. I haven't noticed that on here we get too hung up on slicing it into sub-categories, ad-infinitim. I think we tend to be a pretty laid back bunch. The "problem", if it is one, within the community is the self-conceived hierarchy. I don't think it's always the full-on transexuals who see themselves at the top of the food chain, either. I think the first big sub-category of all these distinctions is gay/straight/bi. Whichever of those we categorize ourselves as is just a little better than the others. I'm guitly of it,too. Not so much the gay/straight/bi distinction, but there are others that really rub me the wrong way. None of us, including me, are without some pretty strongly held opinions. I prefer to think for the purposes of an online community that we're pretty much all this boat together. Not that it all needs to be sweetness, either. That'd be pretty boring, and not very useful. What understandably and invariably sets us off is a condecsending attitude. Maybe it could be better stated that what invariable sets off our own condescending attitude is when someone else expresses theirs. (Guilty!)
Outside the community, those categorical distinctions are so ill-defined and variable that I think most people have absolutely no idea. My ex-wife's notions are probably pretty common. Man/woman/gay/straight, and kind of a floating notion on the male side about crossdressers and transexuals. And all this after 30 years of living with me! I remember about 25 years ago, the first time I knew she had any problem with my cding I remember her saying, "but you don't look like a crossdresser, you look like a woman!" I didn't say any of this stuff, but I was thinking, "And this is a problem how? Isn't that what a crossdresser is supposed to look like?"
I think maybe her simple black and white categories kept her from seeing me as me, and it didn't matter how I defined myself. Over the years she had become convinced that I was a woman. Interestingly, she never ever even suggested that I was transexual, but she made the woman thing chrystal clear. In her eyes, the fact that I was a woman who could pretty convincingly disguise herself as a man didn't make it any better. Although I disagreed (and I'm the expert, right?), it was only her opinion that mattered to her.
The point is, it probably matters very little how we define ourselves, or how we think we stack up on the food chain. It matters much more how others see us. I'm probably kind of a Pollyanna, but the most important categories to me are nice/not nice. Everything else is a sub-category dependent on a myriad of life experiences, predjudices, and taste.
I didn't know what all the terms were growing up in the 50's . I just always figured I was the only person that was a girl in a boys body I must be sick. I dress so much and for so long now that when I have to dress as a boy, I feel like "yes" I am cross dressing. I still have to be a guy to much.for a lot of reasons. but when I don't have to I am back in girl mode. Do I pass my friends say I do ,in my mind I don't because I don't have real breast or long beautiful hair. I do have long painted nails on my fingers and my toes are painted to. I also wear my panties and girl jeans all the time I don't own any boys pants or underwear.I consider my self a Transgendered person, even though ever one else calls me some thing different. Sorry it is so long winded kisses Leia
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie B
I don't wonder why you get cross at all, and believe me I was not trying to single you out. Like I said we do need to use words to describe us. And the whole thing is a little silly if you are comfortable wit the term Transvestite than you should be able to use it to describe yourself.
I wil just think of you as Katie :) I guess what I am trying to say is that the labels shouldn't matter to us here when we are talking to each other. Very often they do, I hope that makes some sense.
When we finally get to the point where we drop the titles and labels and consider one another as individuals (regardless of biology or presentation) we accomplish something positive.:)