Feeling out of place...

So here I am, my usual male self, no hint of anything and I'm at my daughter's school parent's welcome dinner... but I'm feeling a bit out of place. I'm looking around and all the male parents my age mid 40s are grey haired, balding, large frame and generally, well 40ish looking, some are chatting loudly about sports or home renovations and how they knocked this and that down. I know I look young so a lot of times people my own age talk down to me (maybe CDing helps or hurts?) I have some pattern baldness on my temples, but not much and just a few barely noticable grey hairs and not much of a stomach, I'm at the low range on my target weight but within the healthy range. I am fit, but not overly muscular. I've also done a lot more guy projects than most guys and when I get in to a conversation I have to dumb it down so I don't sound like I know too much... I couldn't help but think how different I am and how hard it is to fit the typical male mold. I'm fine being myself, but sometimes I feel out of place...everyone else seems to have a story they love to tell...

Ever feel like that? ...at the same time I was checking out the mom's looking for clothing ideas, some pretty unusual getups and flattering ones... I could see myself blending in as my female self. Sigh.

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Originally Posted by Sally2005

when I get in to a conversation I have to dumb it down so I don't sound like I know too much...

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Why do you do that?

I've never really felt like I fit in with groups of guys.

And if that isn't bad enough...
Just when the GG's start having a good chat about fashion or make-up that you can at least easdropping on... some some Monday night quarterback comes up and starts a conversation about sports or how he belched for 3 minutes solid! :Angry3:

beeing an individual is hard-its much easier to follow the herd.
do you have a life or are you lived by your neighbors?
a lot of the conflicts i read about here stem from this.
the realization of self is to me the purpose of life -a hard road with tough choices to make especially with a female contingent thrown in.
but it already said on the sfhinx many many years ago
MAN-TO THINE OWN SELF BE TRUE!

Oh Sally!

Am I ever with you, girl!

Everything you said I mirror completely - except for the hair. I started graying in High School and am now pretty darn silver-haired. Still, I look much younger than my 46 years - and act it as well - even in guy mode. I am, . . . ummmmmm, a bit under my target weight. :)

I usually don't hang around the guys. Sure, I could talk about replacing the distributor on a 350 V8, or remodeling a kitchen or bathroom, or even how to get the perfect lawn. But why? I do those things because I have to. What I want to do, most guys wouldn't want to chat about. I usually find myself talking with the girls, the moms, the women.

Since my wife travels quite a bit, and I have 280 hours of leave to burn off by the end of the year, I am my daughter's "Room Mom." I go on field trips with the other moms. I help the teacher out a few times a week during lunch or in the afternoon. I communicate with other parents. You know. Room mom stuff.

Am I accepted by the other moms? Yes. Did it take a while to break through the "glass floor" so to speak? Yes. Whenever a new mom arrives, there is a bit of puzzlement until they find me as harmless and, I don't know, "non male-ish." This peer group has never talked down to me, as other male peer groups have. Where a bunch of guys don't ever take me seriously, the women friends I do have do.

Let's see, did I have a point? Oh yeah! Don't feel out of place, just because you don't feel you fit in with your supposed peer group. Think about it, would you want to be a overweight, balding, boring guy who can belch his ABC's? Why settle for that when you can have all this?

:)

Kathi

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Originally Posted by Sally2005

.... I know I look young so a lot of times people my own age talk down to me........ I've also done a lot more guy projects than most guys and when I get in to a conversation I have to dumb it down so I don't sound like I know too much... I couldn't help but think how different I am and how hard it is to fit the typical male mold. I'm fine being myself, but sometimes I feel out of place...everyone else seems to have a story they love to tell....

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Wow, that describes me and my thoughts to a T. I too do the dumb down thing, I think for me it's a self confidence issue. Always feel like they'll call me out then I'll get nervous and stumble all over explaining myself and look like a fool. That or I dumb it down to avoid having to go into an in-depth conversation.

Not sure what else I can add being in the same boat, I feel for ya'.

:hugs:

Like I always say"There are worse things in the world be than a girl! Like an ugly guy."

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Originally Posted by Sally2005

Ever feel like that? ...at the same time I was checking out the mom's looking for clothing ideas, some pretty unusual getups and flattering ones... I could see myself blending in as my female self. Sigh.

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All the time.

I have NEVER fit in among "the guys." And it's not from a lack of guy type activities - I'm a pilot, I rebuilt a VW in college, I camp et.al.. I just can't stand the sports / beer / hunting / belching / farting / competitive dirtbaggery. It doesn't help that I have a masters degree and live among farmers. If there is 1 group with simultaneously a giant inferiority complex, and an even bigger chip on their collective shoulders it is definitely farmers in the fly-over states. So I find myself constantly having to not let on that I know things around the guys here, or I am treated like some sort of know-it-all jerk.

At the same time... I have always fit in with the girls / women I have been around. It usually takes a while to be accepted, and not looked at as some sort of wolf in sheep's clothing... but usually acceptance happens. And even when the conversation turns to something I have 0 interest in, it is at least civil and non-combative. And there IS conversation.

What is a "guy project"? Now what is a "girl project"? Who says?

If any guy in his 40's is bragging about belching, his age matches his IQ.

I feel the exact same way and tend to avoid guy conversations if possible.I have a lifetime of worldwide adventures and misadventures,am a commercial mariner,so I work with tools to help make a living.I don't want to go to hunting camp and I don't even want to sleep in anything less than a bed anymore!I am just tired of too many years of guy things to want to talk about them to fit in. And,I am in shape as well and when I see one of these other parents that look years over their age,it confirms that the norm is not for me...I would much rather have a makeup brush in my hand than a paintbrush! Can't say that on this beautiful little island that has great weather AND a church on every other streetcorner.I am different and fortunately,so is my family.

When in guy mode I can belch the ABC's with the best of them. I used to have a job that required an IQ greater than average ( by a long shot ). I'm one of the best in the U.S. in a dangerous "guy" sport. I'm not greying (much) and no belly. In guy mode I can pass for a guy MUCH younger than I am. And when a kid pulls my finger.... never mind.

More than 20 years ago, I would visit my counterparts at corporate headquarters, a group made up mostly of women.
I fit in great. They accepted my as "one of the girls" even though I was in guy mode exclusively ( as far as they knew ). Out to lunch, they always had me tag along, and I fit in fine.

But I also love to CD.
When watching TV with a DVR I don't skip the commercials that are relevent to dressing. "Checking out chicks" is truely bi-level. I may not get out and about as much as some, but I do what I can, a little.

So feeling "out of place", NEVER

Who said that you can't have it both ways......

Hi Sally

Yep. I don't do well with men for very long. It seems like it is always a struggle to dominance. I want to talk with some color and my hands moving but in men groups hands in the pockets and short sentences more like cave man conversations short and to the point.

I belong to 2 groups of men. 1 a billiards league which is mostly men and there is not much talking at all mostly good shot, nice game etc.... another is a fly fishing group mostly men again. It is the same nice fly did you catch that wow good fish etc.......

I don't expect that the male persona will change anytime in my lifetime.

I do much better with women. I can get some kind of conversation from them. But most are hesitant to start a conversation because of there husbands or surprise that a man can talk. LOL....

Maybe it is just me not fitting in. Or maybe they don't fit in.LOL.....

Who knows I still keep on trying.

Well, I have met AND exceeded MY target weight!:tongueout
I am also fat and balding(should read"already" bald)!:D
I get senior citizen discounts even though I am years away from being one.:heehee:
I can't belch the ABCs, although, with training, I could do it!:daydreaming:


What?......Isn't that what ..............it isn't?

:o:o:o:o

Never mind!:doh:

Hey Sally, just be yourself and don't ever worry about fitting in somewhere. I can relate to what you're saying as I don't really relate to most guys my age...don't really want to for that matter! Most topics guyd tend to talk about I zone out on, but stay in the conversation just to be polite. If I have something to contribute, I chime in...but I never dumb it down. Show them what you know. Who cares what they might think. :)

I'll bet the Moms were checking you out as well Hon and I don't mean checking your clothing style.;):)

[SIZE="3"]When I am around a bunch of guys, (my close freinds not included) I feel like Luke Wilson, as "Not Sure" in the movie Idiocracy. If you don't know what I am talking about, you HAVE to see this movie. [/SIZE]
[SIZE="3"]It seems that the[/SIZE] [SIZE="4"]more[/SIZE] [SIZE="3"]I get to know myself, the[/SIZE] [SIZE="1"]less[/SIZE] [SIZE="3"]I have in common with the average guy.[/SIZE]

I can't believe the similarities we have Sally based on what you described.

As for the guy thing, I often find myself thinking the "what if", as in what if I were out to these people, or would they accept me in the unlikely event I were to transition? More often than not, I come to the conclusion that it's probably best they don't know.

So when the women are conversing, I sometimes get into the periphery of the conversation, just enough to be "in touch" but staying away from too much danger (as in temptation to dive head-first into their world).

I often sigh myself. No one said balancing between two worlds is easy.

For certain most of us have suffered through and survived your situation. Remember - you are unique, a one of a kind, mentally, physically, emotionally, as we all are - that's why we are called INDIVIDUALS! Enjoy every moment in life - as that time will never be again.

Sally,

Like so many others I could have written the same post. One thing you didn't mention but which affects me when I get into situations like you have described is --that I get severely depressed and incredibly anxious. I just don't feel comfortable in my own skin. But I have learned that I needed help and I worked at getting it.

In general I like women much more than men.

I find many men to be annoying and crude.

I enjoy how easy it is to talk to women. Especially mature ladies with a sunny disposition.

Very young women can be annoying because if you are in guy mode they're in their whole "is he trying to get with me" phase.

Other than politics and history I've never been into most "guy" stuff. I do love football. I'm not into stats but I love watching the game.

I love mature (40 and up) women the most. They seem like the happiest people to me. I think its because they've been around long enough to be confident and secure with who they are.

Actually I feel like "they" are the ones that are out of place and I'm the one that looks pretty damn good for my age (wish I was in my 40's again!!). And works on my weight and is active and plays ice hockey every week.. Is well groomed.. Has long nails... And I never dumb things down.. If they can't understand engineer speak then they should get a couple Dilbert books and bone up!! Hahaha

So I situations like that I'm feeling pretty damn proud of myself and pretty sorry that "they" have let themselves go to hell.. But that's just me..

Your post Rogina got me thinking..... (ouch)....
Looks like there are a bunch of us on the site here that must be primadonas (self included).
No talk of sports... no belching...no construction talk etc.. Because we're "girls".
Think about it... I have a wife and two daughters and a granddaughter that LOVE to camp fish and hunt. Any one of them could take the 100% girly girl award. Think of Danica Patrick. Here is a chick that can turn a dirty wrench and turn around and look fab in a swimsuit. Nanci Donnellan, best known by her title of "The Fabulous Sports Babe," is an American sports radio broadcaster.
Why not intermix?

I agree with Miranda... Just be yourself.

And, I'll add, "Let the chips fall where they may."

The older I get, the less in common I have with anyone on a one-on-one basis. When we were all in elementary school, we were like eggs in a carton. By High School, we were starting to hatch out and go our separate ways. Then, some of us went to college, some didn't. Then some got married, some didn't. And, so forth... As time passes, we find ourselves having traveled different paths with different people, jobs, kids, houses, duties, luck, health issues, etc.

I don't expect to have a lot in common with anyone. If I do, great. If I don't, it's no big surprise one way or another.

You only need a few good friends in life. Everyone else is just, "OK."

Don't worry about it. It's just life for everybody.

Good for you, by the way, you're paying attention!

I took my eldest grand to the Daddy-Daughter dance. All of these proper business hair cut, suits and ties etc. I come rolling in with my hair down to the middle of my back, Spanish cowboy boots, full crease jeans, and rodeo shirt. Took quite a while before any of them would speak to me, guess I did not fit their comfort level. Guess they would have really freaked at the underdressing that was going on.
Only worry that you are happy with how you look, to hell with the tskers.
Peace

Hi Sally
I also feel more comfortable when I am having conversations or interactions with women , I am not into sports of any kind and think that most of the things that guys do and think it is funny or cool is just showing how immature they really are.
When I met my GF she told me that she liked that I was sensitive and caring and if I was a weekend couchaholic she would not have been interested in me at all.
So I guess I would say be yourself and don't dumb it down to try to fit in , maybe they could learn something from you.
Tomara

I messed up my post and lost it... anyways I agree with ALL the responses so far. Mostly, I feel fine with who I am, just at a loss for words really in these situations and mosty just an observation on my part about how out of shape guys my age are and how in shape most of the moms my age are (actually my body shape kind of conforms to the female norm (minus the curves of course) which is a bonus as far as CDing goes).

Well,, I am a hell of a carpenter, so I do know that kind of thing, but, when they start talking about "sick and ball sports" I'm totaly lost! (but I do like NASCAR)

Hi Sally: If your trying to please others you would do it easier by being yourself. Many of us here, especially us older ones follow the old saying (been there done that). This is true for many including those in thier thirties never mind the forties. Depending on where life brings you also brings you the experiences. Some people never go anywhere and others would rather travel. As for gray hair I've had some since I was twelve, was completely gray at 25, and now at 57 I have a full head of white hair. Energy levels are also different. After the army I spent 30 yrs as a walking mailman and today I have more energy than a 17yr old. Bottom line is be yourself and the rest will follow. You have friends here.

My whole freakin' life I've been out of place. I don't want to talk about cars, bikes, NASCAR, football, baseball, anything. The only thing I will talk about is guns, shooting, politics, and history. I really hate it when my wife has friends, and I am expected to be friends with their husbands! I'm nice and all that. But I don't care about his hotrod or his bike. I don't care about the latest college football game. Geez. I'd rather hang out with my wife and her friends. I think it's a little obvious too. But, I-don't-care, HA!

I know how you feel. I also feel out of place at those school functions. I feel that I associate with the females better, but by society's expectations, I should be bonding with the men folk. I enjoy doing the tradtional men things like car repair, home remodeling, woodworking etc.,, But I always seem to get along better with the women in those situations. My SO even coments that the women like me better than her.

Exactly!!!

I feel so good and more identified talking with moms than with dads at school meetings.

I really hate all the competitiveness and sport bla bla bla. I'm clueless and I don't care. I used to care, pretend to understand the conversation and nod a lot, but now I just claim "I'm not too much into sports"

For many years I never really "felt" right, or at ease, or comfortable, in a group setting, being it a social function, family get together, school meeting, or anything like that, when it came time to "mingle" and I was kinda expected to "talk with the men" about, cars, sports, hunting, fishing, anything else, or all of the above. Not that I dislike any of those subjects, it's just that there's always one guy in the crowd who has to brag about his "big belt buckle"
Somehow I always felt more relaxed and enjoyed myself so much more when I'd become part of the conversation at the ladies side of the room. Never could figure it out. I just kinda knew it felt better.
Occasionally I'd get looks from some of the "guys" there but it never really bothered me, still doesn't today, but now I understand why I felt "alright" about it.

Not that any conversation would revolve around makeup, clothes, and "typical" girl talk. Sometimes far from it, ladies can get into politics also and it just seemed so right to have a discussion with them rather than with the "menfolk"

I just wanted add an update. I rented "Idiosyncrasy" and I'm not sure if it is supposed to be a commedy or a horror movie! The scary part is a lot of what the movie has in it is already happening. There were some funny parts but mostly for the younger crowd I guess... I can see, depending on your situation in life you might take away a completely different message from this movie. I actually enjoyed it (not so much the overwhelming outrageous stupidity...but maybe you were supposed to feel the main character's frustration). One part that I really thought was funny was the Whitehouse scene when the main character was trying to tell the others to use water on the crops. It was just like being in a real board room with executives who haven't got a clue...

The movie sure did highlight the out of place feeling. Thanks. And I know its going to bring a laugh as similar situations in life arrise.

I hate to be the one to point it out, but everybody feels that way. Everyone thinks no one can possibly understand them and they walk around acting stupid so that you won't envy their superior intelligence and depth. And what a great job they're doing!

I have a retarded daughter who feels no one can understand her (she's mostly correct) and who thinks that proves she's smarter than everyone else. Oh! The implications!:heehee:

:love:

I don't feel particularly at home with my male friends (who are almost all into sports) or my female friends (whom I know mostly from church so they all discuss homemaking-type stuff that doesn't interest me). My interests are mostly related to music (not the country/western that is so prevalent here), computer programming, and computer games. As a result, almost all the folks I have the most in common with are twice my age (for older-style music) or half my age (computer geek stuff).

I haven't introduced the topics myself, but from conversations that do take place I'm sure none of my peer groups care to discuss the velvet gown I got on ebay for a steal or how hard it is to find durable warm tights for a 48-inch-waist. "So I rolled a d20 when I entered the dragon's cave, and he... wait, what? Tights??? What the hell are you talking about?"

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Originally Posted by Ashley_in_Texas

[SIZE="3"]When I am around a bunch of guys, (my close freinds not included) I feel like Luke Wilson, as "Not Sure" in the movie Idiocracy. If you don't know what I am talking about, you HAVE to see this movie. [/SIZE]
[SIZE="3"]It seems that the[/SIZE] [SIZE="4"]more[/SIZE] [SIZE="3"]I get to know myself, the[/SIZE] [SIZE="1"]less[/SIZE] [SIZE="3"]I have in common with the average guy.[/SIZE]

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I LOVE THAT MOVIE!

It was a box office flop, but it is one of the best social/political satires ever.

That movie, just like "Defending Your Life" and "So I married an Axe Murderer" are like IQ tests for me. If somebody doesn't think they're funny then they're just not my kind of person.

It's about time to see them all again.

-Misty

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Originally Posted by LilSissyStevie

I have a retarded daughter who feels no one can understand her (she's mostly correct) and who thinks that proves she's smarter than everyone else. Oh! The implications!:heehee:

:love:

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Is she really retarded? If she isn't, and you're just using the word pejoratively, then I agree with everything you said.

...though my retarded brother is a little offended at your use of the word.

-Misty

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Originally Posted by Sally2005

I'm looking around and all the male parents my age mid 40s are grey haired, balding, large frame and generally, well 40ish looking.

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I guess I don't much fit the mold either. I look slightly younger than my age (people at work are always surprised when I tell them how old I am) and at 5ft 4in, and 130 lbs I'm smaller, shorter and lighter than almost every guy I know.

I'm also certainly the odd one out when comes to being in a conversation with a bunch of guys (this would be at work as I don't have any guy "friends" out of work). They always want to talk about things I know nothing about, like sports, hunting, fishing, UFC fighting, remodeling projects, cars, etc. etc. (I'm ashamed to say I have no clue about cars at all except how to drive them :sad:). Even if they talk about movies (which is one of the things I like) invariably it'll be the kinds of movies I don't watch. The other thing about me is I'm quite accident prone so if I do attempt to do some sort of "fixing up job" in the house I usually end up cutting or hurting myself. Sometimes my wife gets quite worried about me :o

I am way more comfortable talking about almost anything other than what most guys like to talk about when they're in a group. Talking with my wife's friends is so much nicer for me. :)

I have never been one to hang out with the boys. I have always felt uncomfortable with that. I can remember feeling that way as far back as elementary school. I was always putting on a front to prove myself so no one would think I was different. However I was different. When I joined the service I voluntered to become a military policeman. That was my way to prove to the world I was a real man. And I had a reputation as being a hard ass. It took another 20 years to figure out I needed counsel and underwent counseling for a year. It taught me to surreder to who I really am.
So among other things I found out that I am Androgynous. Twenty years later I embace the person I am, the good, bad, and the ugly. I feel very lucky too work in the interior design industry where I work mainly with women. Thank God!! I do like some sports, but ain't into huntin! I'm really into fitness and prefer wine over beer. Its still hard sometimes not to over compensate the male thing howver I feel well balanced now days. I take one day at a time and enjoy my life. Thanks sally for your post, dana

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Originally Posted by Misty is Kindafem

Is she really retarded? If she isn't, and you're just using the word pejoratively, then I agree with everything you said.

...though my retarded brother is a little offended at your use of the word.

-Misty

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She has Down Syndrome but she's smart enough to know that she's different from other people. Talk about feeling alienated, you can't fake smart and everyone treats you like you have a contagious disease. About the terminology - I could use "slow" or the current PC favorite "developmentally delayed" but they just mean "retarded" - even my daughter knows that. The main lesson I've learn from retarded people [or insert the PC term du jour] is that intelligence is waaaaay overrated.
:love:

Okay so men are from a planet that rhythms with a***, you ain't seen nuttin' yet.

Just wait till have the insurance, retirement, gated community free dinner meetings offered to you after your kids are gone.

Right now you got it easy.

Oh yeah wait till the health issues replace the sports issues, you'll love that moment.
Then you will bring up power tools and antique cars, I guarantee it.
Don't forget your roots, they may save your bacon down the road someday.

I always feel like the oddman out whenever I go drinking with my guy friends. I find myself "one-upping" everyone else so I don't look like a loser. I'm very comfortable around girls though, I feel like a great weight has been lifted off my chest when I'm around chicks. I can act normal and a little silly without getting flak for it.

I can certainly relate to this.

I can feel alone with a group of guy as we often have little in commom. A female in group makes me feel more at ease.

Not being a sports fan, I have learned to fake it over the years to a certain extent in sutuations where apropriate to ease my anxiety.

I like a lot of things that both sexes are interested in and converse with true interest (not pretence) in what we are talking about. What gives us an advantage is that we can speak to both and hold a coversation as long as the recipient is not jaded or myopic. Women who can pick whats going on know and enjoy the interaction, where I can discuss the best of sports and hardware stuff with the guys, most of them miss or choose to ignore the discreet facial alterations that give you away. Three women have picked it so far!