Fun for you - huge pain for us

Hi everyone. I wish health, luck, and love.
I m 30 years old, I m a model (good looking) and the guy I liked appeared to me from the beggining (of our dating) as a woman. I accepted it, because I thought that love is above everything. I already knew him as a man for 2 years. I thought that yin has a bit of yang, and yang has a bit of yin. So he (yang) is expressing his "yin" side, as I also express my "yang" side sometimes (not through cross-dressing). So it sounded fair to me. I ended up making love to him all the time, having the active, male role almost everytime we had sex. I felt so rejected as a woman. Never felt so bad before, so much heartbroken. I didn t show him/her I didn t like it. In fact, sometimes I liked it, (after getting drunk), but I made an effort to like it.
It was like I was forced to be a lesbian.
I had no motivation to become more beautiful, to put make up etc. He did all that for himself. He had already found satisfaction in himself.
The last times we had sex I felt so depressed that, during sex, I was asking god to help me somehow and give me strenght to copy with that and make this thing end with a miracle.. One day we had sex as a "normal" couple, and it felt sooo nice, I almost secretely started crying because I had missed it so much, so much.. to feel like a woman.. As I was enjoying it, he turned to me and said "that s how I want you to make love to me". It was so turning off..
One day, after 3 years, I couldn t take it any more, so I asked him to break up.
Now I feel that I can never have sex again, and never fall in love again. Yin usually fells in love with yang. It is like magnets, north poles attract south poles, etc.
This whole thing made me feel like the world has only women and men who want to be women. So, falling in love with a man seems a utopia, it would be like I deceive myself.
My question is, you guys enjoy this, but does it really worth the pain you put us through? :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:

I do not want to put a woman through pain, it is another reason why I am torn about it. Honestly, I just want the joy of being a woman with other women to share that with. Not having any sexual component to it, but just nice friendships instead. The irony is that I already have female friendships, but not many in person at all.

Turned.off.forever, I feel your pain. I am so sorry you had to go through this with what to me seems to be an insensitive and selfish lover. But at the same time, I think you enabled him to become that way. You did not speak up and tell him you have limits and boundaries. Not all men are like this. Some of us even set our own boundaries as to how much of our feminine side we allow to show. Most of us want our lover to be happy and realize that she wants a man, not a woman or a man that wants to live in fantasy land 24/7. You must have loved this guy. Loved him so much that you did not know how to say no. You should have expressed your displeasure with always making love to him dressed and acting like a female. He seems to have pushed you into accepting some things you were very turned off by. It sounds like you allowed yourself to become very submissive to his wants and needs and neglected to express what made you happy. Love is a two way street complete with both partners fore-filling each other's wants and needs. It seems that he was perhaps traveling a one way street making it all about him and neglecting to even check with you on what made you happy.
I can only speak for myself when I tell you that in 3 different long term loving relationships, IF I thought my partner that I loved was unhappy with my dressing or the amount of time I devote to my feminine side, I would scale back with it even without her having to ask. I have always felt a big need to reach a balance between being her man and my being my fem self. I seemed to be able to sense their limits, their comfort level and their need for me to be their man. It worried me to present to much of my fem side for fear of losing them, so I'd do the macho thing to show my masculine side is still and always there. I'm guessing your guy might not have cared to comfort you with his male side and pushed or forced the issue with his fem side.
Don't give up on love. There is a man that will put you first... Put your needs and wants first. Sharing my crossdressing with a loved one has always been fun. But there is a limit. I try to never cross it. I try to show appreciation and love in every way I can. I am a man, and that side of me more powerful then my fem side. And it's the male side of me that all my past and present partners have fallen in love with. I always respect that. If I didn't, I lose them. My crossdressing was never a reason or even part of why there has been 3 accepting ladies in my life. Widowed once and my last marriage ended when we simply grew apart for a host of reasons other then my crossdressing. Today we remain friends. My present love enjoys my fem side very much. But she has expressed few boundaries that I never cross, or frankly, that I ever want to cross.
I hope you find some answers here. I'm glad you are here sharing your experience. You seem to have a beautiful soul and if the outside comes close to matching that, some man will not try to dominate your life with his wants and needs, but will work hard on making you happy and be very concerned about your happiness more or at least as much as his own. I sense this was missing for you.
I wish you luck and love.
Brandy

Hi,
I think you probably already know this but balance is important. That said, relationships take work and communication is critical. Instead of suffering in silence, I can't help thinking that things could have been better for you if you just shared your feelings with you friend.

Alisa

I am sorry that you have had this bad experience , there will always be some that will take advantage of a person who is willing to give more than take in a relationship , i know GGs like you enjoy giving your heart and soul to someone as that is a part of you and other GGs and one day you will find the right one for you who will appreciate this and give as much back .
This is a good reminder to the ones that think more of their CDing than they do of their wife/so hopefully that is not many .

First of all, Welcome to the forum.

I am sorry that you had to go thru this kind odf a one way relationship. Of course in any relationship, both partners have to be happy and satisfied. If that doesn't happen then the relationship will never be great. It sadens me to think that guys will only think of themselves this way.

I hope and pray that you will find the right guy that will treat you the way you should be treadted. They are out there, Keep looking you will find one.

Welcome to the forum and I'm sorry for the pain you must be going through.

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Originally Posted by turned.off.forever

.......My question is, you guys enjoy this, but does it really worth the pain you put us through?......

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No it is not. I made the mistake of not bringing up the issue of boundries and groundrules in my first marriage. She knew that I crossdressed before we married and did participate some with me. After we married, it wasn't long before I went further than she was comfortable by taking it into the bedroom. And into the closet I went. Needless to say our marriage eventually ended in divorce.

When I met my wife now, 11 years ago, I let her know up front - "there is something you need to know about me". Later when she told me she loved me no matter what cloths I liked to wear and said she was OK and wasn't worried about boundries, I then (learning from my past mistake) still insisted that we discuss boundries and groundrules and thank God we did. Even though she was very liberal and open minded, she later realized she needed the security of those boundries and groundrules for both of us to remain happy in our relationship.

Here is a current thread you might be interested in seeing how many of us cd'ers here on this forum feel about these issues: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...to-participate

Thank you, t.o.f., for bringing this issue up and believe me, there are many of us who have learned our lesson.

I'm not taking sides here, but I think you two should have communicated a lot more. He might not have been aware of your feelings if you're good at hiding them. (I know I am.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by turned.off.forever

My question is, you guys enjoy this, but does it really worth the pain you put us through? :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:

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Maybe you are not aware, but it is quite possible that he goes through exactly the same when he has to "be a man". I seriously doubt he did what he did to hurt you in any way.
Do you know whether (s)he identifies as female (transsexual) or as a crossdressing male?

t.o.f., Whilst I'm sorry to hear of your experiences with a selfish lover I should point out that being a crossdresser doesn't make us mind readers. I'm sorry if that appears harsh, but your lover upset you when he confided "that's how I want you to make love to me" so why didn't you state your feelings. That it wasn't what you wanted and then explain what you did want.

You had the strength to end the relationship (Good for you, never settle for unhappiness) but did he not ask why? Did you never explain to him the feelings you expressed in your initial post? Did he know he was causing you pain and didn't care - or did you assume he should have known?

I sincerely hope that you can move on from this unhappy experience and find lasting happiness, but please don't ever just 'put-up' with something that makes you uncomfortable. Share your feelings. Your opinion counts.

Zoe

OK. I am going to go out on a limb here and say something that most people will argue.

Men (including many CD's) will find satisfaction firstly themselves and secondly for their partners. Women, on the other hand, generally derive their satisfaction from pleasing their partners, and if they have something left over for themselves, that is their reward.

There are many exceptions to this rule, BUT, I have found a majority who fall into this mindset.

So, the problem is this. A couple will consist of one who enables the other and then waits patiently for the benefits to flow back. Unfortunately, often the benefits are in one direction only resulting in the one who was enabled being completely surprised when the enabler has finally had enough.

It all comes down to communication. Honest, 2 way communication. So both parties know where the other is at.

I can really sympathise with how turned.off.forever feels. I too think that this guy/girl had absolutely no qualms in letting you know what he/she wanted because they had never shown any empathy at all to how you actually feel at any point in your relationship.

Being a CD is a private thing. It starts as being totally solo, but when you start getting bored you bring partners into the deal and try to get them to see it your way. If they don't, well, check out how many complain that their partners don't understand them or refuse to be involved. And how many break up the relationship over these issues? As a CD you get lots of time (a lifetime?) to get used to and justify "why" you do these things. And then are totally caught by surprise when a partner doesn't understand with 5 minutes to think about what you just told them.

Yes, in this case it's a bit different. But this lady has obviously fallen into the trap of trying to please her partner with the faintest hope that he/she may drop a few crumbs of her birthright for her. Only to rip away a last glimmer of hope with "that" comment.

I think he/she has been so caught up in his/her self interest that any thought of consideration for his/her partner's feelings have long since been forgotten about. This posting is another example of where CD's go wrong. Consideration is a 2 way street and should we condemn her based on the fact that she didn't speak up and say what SHE wanted? Shouldn't love and consideration be unspoken in a truly loving relationship? Or was this really a relationship of convenience? And for who?

I just want to add - your partner presented from day 1 to you as a woman. You say you felt forced into a lesbian relationship. You haven't made mention of this - but at what point in your relationship did you believe that you could convince this person to change from the person you met? I have met many women who believe that they have the power to make gay men straight or stop CD's from wanting to change gender. They usually cause heartache for both or succeed in making life a misery for the other. Your partner seems consistent in his/her behaviour (consistently ignorant of your wants and needs) and the only difference was that you continually failed to get what you needed from your relationship. Were you more hurt by the continued ignorance of your needs or by your failure to get the results you wanted?

Turned,
I feel for you. Please do not go away from here thinking we are all like your ex. First of all, not all men are crossdressers. So your next boyfriend will likely not be one. If you do find another, we are not all like your ex either. As others have said, boundaries are a must. Personally, my wife knows but doesn't participate in any way. Even if she were to see or help me, I would never bring it into the bedroom. Like every group of people, there are some at the extremes and I suggest your ex was one at the extreme.

Having mentioned boundaries, I would also like to say something positive about us. Generalizations being just that and, obviously, not applicable to all of us, I would suggest to you that, once we become comfortable with who we are, on the whole we can be more understanding of women, less likely to be physically abusive, more nurturing, and enjoy doing other things society deem "female" while still being a man (I enjoy many "male" things like fishing, working on the car, home repair, etc.) I am not implying that all CDs are like this because being a CD is difficult and many of us are struggling with it and that can make us angry, selfish and oblivious of others but many of us are good, decent, people who if you knew us as our male selves you would never guess.

I hope you heal quickly and get to enjoy a full life soon.

Leann

I'm not going to speak for others here, although I believe many are the same as I.

Being this way is not my choice. I was born this way and my needs and desires are as fundamental to me as they are for anyone else. I don't do it for "fun". I do it to try to fulfill some deep need that goes unanswered by "normal" life. My needs don't fit into the stereotypical male/female relationship at all, so I do the best that I can. I struggle to give my wife what she needs and to find what I need. She is not capable nor interested in what my needs are in this area that stray very far off the beaten path, so I do what I can on my own without doing anything that would threaten our relationship in any way. I don't expect her to change. We explored the alternatives and found how far we could go and remain true to ourselves. My need to be with her outweighs my needs as a CD/TG, so I compromise. This is my choice.

I resent it when women assume we choose this and should be able to switch it off. I also resent it when they blame us wholely for failed relationships or the inability to change the way we are built. I'll agree we cause our fair part by not telling the whole truth to women when we first start to date and by hiding it many years or by staying with someone we know won't ever be able to accept it and hoping/expecting them to change. They're no more capable of change than we are. At the same time they can't expect us to change either and shouldn't pin the success or failure of a relationship on this alone.

Some times people are just not compatible. They need to accept this and exit the relationship instead of prolonging the inevitable and causing great pain.

First, no one (it seems from your description of events) forced you into this relationship, nor, forced you to stay in it. You do not mention if you tried to tell your cross dressing partner what you wanted and tried to work out a compromise that you both could live with, so, perhaps breaking up was the best thing to do. But, please do not blame cross dressing for your relationship problems. Many woman cannot accept cross dressers and many many marriages have ended when the CD has "come out" to their wives - I know this was a factor (though not necessarily the main one) in my own split with my first wife. My present wife not only "accepts" my cross dressing but she realizes it a very big part of who I am, ie, the person she feel in love with 15 years ago. I dress full time (at home, not in public) and we sometimes make love with me "en femme", though more often not. I also realize she often wants to see me in male cloths ... I respect her desires, and dress in "drab" often enough that we are both happy with our relationship.

Cross dressing was not your "problem" ... I suspect it was "communications" (or a lack thereof) and a partner who either was too selfish and too full or him/herself to notice that you were unhappy, or, it was your failure to communicate and stand up for what you needed out of the relationship, or perhaps it was a combination of the two.

Sorry if this sounds harsh, but you should not blame "cross dressing" for you problems. I hope you find "Mr Right" in future and are very happy ....

my wife and I always talk things through and if I thought for a minute my crossdressing hurt her I would give it up.I think theres a tendency for some on here to tar us all with the same brush.our CDing isnt always a negative in relationships

Dearest Turned Off,
Valentine ’s Day is tomorrow. Perhaps it is appropriate that I saw your post.
(Again: I can speak only for myself and through my own life’s experiences for which I honestly share with you. I always seem to come off as the” killjoy’ when I do this.)
Sometimes I think back and remember how things were when I was together with my wife years ago. How much we loved each other. How much I loved her. I cannot help but break down into tears when I think about it. 25 years of marriage finally came to an abrupt end when my beloved wife said these fateful words to me.
“When I look into your eyes….. I don’t see you anymore.” The finality in her voice told me that it was time for me to go.
She had stood courageously by my side for many years and losing her was like losing a piece of me that could never be replaced. We were soul mates. A divorce decree is merely a worldly document that allows two people to separate from a legally binding contract in order to attempt to move on with their lives. But a binding of souls is beyond the ability of earthly means to tear asunder. The pain never goes away it just decreases in its intensity thus allowing for attempts at less fulfilling relationships with other partners.
Do I still love her? Yes. I always will.
Hind sight being twenty-twenty I can look back and see all the mistakes that I made. I can see clearly, now, how unhappy she was with the situation I had put her into. At the time my attentions were focused entirely upon myself.
The demise of our sex life was the straw that broke the camel’s back. I lost the ability to perform as a “man” (Don’t get that idea that I couldn’t “Get it up” because you would be wrong in the assumption. I just couldn’t bear the thought of using “ it”. I know that sounds impossible. But it’s true.) and was reduced to feeble attempts of lesbian love making and although she howled like a banshee from the pleasure and verbally approved saying “Oh, My gosh!! I never thought it could feel so good!!” I would refuse allow her to return the favor. I was so intensely disgusted with my private parts that I would not allow her to touch them. Our sexual episodes became totally one sided as I concentrated only fulfilling her needs.
As the time went on I finally realized I was making her feel inadequate as a woman for not being able to fulfill mine. She didn’t want to be the “man’ in our relationship .Another shot to her woman-hood.
In the post that I’m responding to there was a reference to magnets that when set to the same polarity tend to repel each other. That is what was happening between me and my spouse. We were becoming so similar that we couldn’t help but be repulsed by the other. You can’t defy the established laws of attraction, no matter how hard you try.
After a while we just stopped having sex at all. We both realized that the effort wasn’t doing either of us any good.
The lack of physical closeness began to take its toll.
She asked me once ‘Is this happening because you feel that I’m not woman enough for you?”
I answered, “No! Don’t you ever, even for one second, think that you aren’t! “
“Then why is this happening to us?”
“Truthfully” I said, “I don’t know.”
I’ve spent the last few years trying to figure out the answer to that question.
Today I still don’t know “Why?”
But I do know one thing, for certain; the blame rests wholly upon my narrow shoulders. Things happened because I, consciously or unconsciously, allowed events to occur. I refused to seek out professional help for my mental condition. Yes. I believe that this is “a disease of the mind”. If left untreated it will have far reaching implications on every aspect of a life. We become what “we believe”, even if it can never be true. Sooner or later we reach the threshold where perception becomes reality.
Then there is no going back. There is just living from day to day. And remembering how life that used to be.
It is probably a good thing that you have broken off your relationship with this person. Save yourself for someone who is better able to appreciate your feelings and sexual appetite rather than being self-centered on their own.
Good luck.:devil:

Turned off forever...your name says it all.

Sorry if that is harsh. But, I found what you had to say to be harsh...as well as confusing.

"rejected as a woman" What does that really mean? What standards are you even using? You loved this person who from the get go presented as a female. You two made love, and so on and so forth. So where is the problem, aside from you feeling "rejected as a woman". Did you express this?

"had no motivation to become more beautiful" I may be mistaken here, but for the most part, looking more beautiful is something you do for yourself.

YOU ARE NOT A SLAVE, you do not always have to please him. You state how wonderful it felt to make love with him as "a woman", what ever that means, and then he essentially asked to switch, and you got turned off.

Really? Seriously?

From what I am reading you two either had other issues, or you are basing the entire relationship off of sex...which to my understanding is something is done by teenagers.

Here are some suggestions.

1) lose the name, it is negative, and just shows EVERYONE that reads it you are unwilling to learn from others here

2) Call your SO and TALK THINGS OUT. Don't just dump him like this, relationships are a lot of work and ARE NOT JUST ABOUT SEX. I cannot over emphasize that. So many people base relationships off of the bed action... and look at the majority of the population.

I also find this line
"This whole thing made me feel like the world has only women and men who want to be women. So, falling in love with a man seems a utopia, it would be like I deceive myself.
My question is, you guys enjoy this, but does it really worth the pain you put us through? "

Just immature. Of course there are more than women, and men that want to be women. First off there is me. I in no way want to transition. To be honest the only things that would make me transition are if an all out law was put out saying men could only wear pants, or if my GG really desired it, and I felt like doing it. But I just like the looks and the feel of the looks. I am very straight, to a fault. I would like to seduce and love my GG when that time comes. I would love to be looking androg or even fem when I do so, and yes if she would like she can be in charge.

It sounds to me you want to be dominated, and if this is the case TALK TO HIM ABOUT IT. In my case I am just coming around to accepting the idea of dominating. The reasons I had issues with the notion is because of the negative connotations connected to dominant behavior by too many men I have heard of. But my GG is showing me that to dominate is not all that bad. I actually still don't like the term though.

You just sound like you need to remove the chip off your shoulder, swallow the pride, and re open communications with your SO.

In answer to your final question I ask this. Have you thought about the pain you just put your SO through just now. How about the pain you put both of you through by trying to maintain social constructs, because that is all that "making love to you like a woman", and so on are...social constructs, that pigeon hole people, and lead to false expectations.

Don't let others control you, and by others I mean society and its constructs.

Turnedoff,

After reading your story, it seems that the real cause for your pain is you not standing up for what you want and need. He made no effort to cater to you sexually, that said you cannot put all of us crossdressers and fetish kids into the same boat with him.
Some of us are much more attentative to our SO's needs than that..... ''That how i want you to make love to me"....What a jerk.....(my wife would black my eye if i said that)

He has given you the power to to be the authoritative one, so by all means use your gift....Something along the lines of "ok my love, this is what i want....and you going to do it....gladly"
Because he has made it clear what he wants....it doesnt sound like you ever stated what you "wanted" and if you just told all of us and have yet to tell him....then again, that is self inflicted.

But not to worry there are alot of us crossdressers out there in the world and we are all different, yet there alot of non-crossdressers out there in the world as well. the chances of you falling in love again with another Crossdresser is slim.
Thinking that love and romance cannot exist with a crossdresser is just silly, thinking that you will never be happy again because a of a failed relationship with a crossdresser is even more ridiculous.

Chin up love, no matter who you fall in love with make damn sure you stand up for yourself. I did. My wife did. Because of that (all crossdressing aside) we have grown together and had romance between us that is like fire for the last 11 years.

Life goes on,
-Donni-

I think this experience may be GOOD FOR U, in the long run, TOF! It may help U to be more mature in future relationships!

And, U DO realize the chance of your NEXT BF being a CD/TS individual is about one in 20? Unless u actively pursue such an individual!?

Which brings me to me MAIN POINT! If u REALLY want a manly man, why r u posting your missive here!???????

I’ve seen enough. Time to ‘Call it as I see it.”
Rebels all. As you can see probably see, Turned Off, we don’t really have a handle on how this situation made you feel. This is understandable. We are in fact NOT WOMEN. We might in some aspect resemble the gender but are indeed far removed. Therefore we can only imagine how you felt, never really grasping the true complexity of your emotions. We often have feelings that we try to pass of as being female in our attempt to validate ourselves.
We are furiously territorial when it comes to how we view ourselves. Everything, weather we want to admit it or not, is all about “US” and our “Don’t tread on Me” philosophy. Our universe is obligated to accept us no matter what. We talk about boundaries and limits so long as they are enforced upon someone else and not ourselves. Oh sure, we will agree to abide by them so long as it doesn’t tie our hands. We speak of being “submissive” but have no idea what that means. The idea of being bound is foreign to us because we want to be in control. This is because we are “MEN”.
Asking our advice about a “true” woman’s feelings is like asking someone that lives in a totalitarian state what it’s like to live in a democracy. The results might make for anecdotal reading but it lacks any firsthand experience. I wouldn’t rely too much on it for determining a course of action.
In any event, everyone is entitled to their opinions here.
This is just mine.

Wowsers, what a post!
You begin your OP with wishes of health, luck and love and i wish the same for you, i really do.
And i hope posting this has done something for you, as i think you posted this as a form of closure. That said, and although there are many flaws to be pointed at here, it is none the less a good example of how things can go wrong, and what good communication can accomplish.
As is being pointed out to you, you need to accept your part in this relationship. You say "you feel as if you were forced to be a lesbian"? For your sake and your future mates sake i would recommend some counseling, you need to learn how to take responsibility for your own sense of self.

Coming on here and flinging arrows at all of us is of little value at this point in time, we are not perfect and we can let ourselves go if not given boundaries and communicated with to make sure their is mutual respect in the relationship.

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Originally Posted by turned.off.forever

My question is, you guys enjoy this, but does it really worth the pain you put us through? :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad: :sad:

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I have seen very few of us here who say they have enjoyed any aspect of their love lives and the work it takes to do it right, in fact our lives are marked by many years of pain, guilt, shame and even despair. That is no excuse for causing pain to those who choose to try and accept us, but please do not paint us with the same narrow brush you used on your ex.

Best of luck for you here on out and i'm sorry your feeling so hurt. Bless you.
Cassie

Your relationship was dysfunctional for reasons far beyond his crossdressing. His CD'ing was just the vehicle for the breakdown.

Relationships involve a lot of give and take, negotiation and communication. Firstly, he didn't seem to care one iota about your needs as a woman or a lover.

But, you're just as responsible for not saying anything and pretending to like it when you didn't. It's up to you to communicate your own needs when they're not being met.

Welcome to the forum TOF, though of course I would wish you were here for happier reasons.
You ask "Is it worth the pain you put us through?" A few thoughts occur to me when I consider this question.

We really don't have much choice in what we find sexually stimulating. It's not something that can be consciously decided or altered because it is or is not convenient, or because it is or is not acceptable or kind to those we love. As far as I know, no human being in the world can simply state to themselves "Today, I decide that I will find big, hairy, muscular men sexually attractive" and "POOF" it's true. Then the next day, you state to yourself "Gee, liking big, hairy, muscular men just aint convenient anymore, so I think that from now on I choose to find small, petite, and feminine women sexually attractive."
My point is that your boyfriend can not help, and does not get the choice to change, what he finds sexually stimulating anymore than you can simply decide "Gee, since my boyfriend is a cross dresser, I choose to be sexually aroused by this." It is what it is and it is not a choice that we can make or change.

Assuming that we agree with that point, then the only real choice in the matter is for you to decide whether it is or is not acceptable to you. So in the end, the question really should be "Did you think that the pain and discomfort that you were going through was worth the relationship with him?"

I wouldn't, and don't, blame you if you can't accept that in a relationship. I would be pretty seriously turned off if my wife were to grow hairy legs and pits, and grow a beard, and then say "This makes me feel sexually attractive -let's have a romp!" I seriously doubt that I could "perform" under those circumstances, and unlike a woman, a male doesn't have the option of "faking" it. LOL

Edit - I thought I'd add that while I think it's not your SO's "fault" (for lack of a better word) what he finds sexually stimulating, how and when he chose to tell you that can most certainly be placed at his feet.

Although I an a cross-dressing male, I can understand your pain. I can assure you there are non cross-dressing men out there, who would puke at the thought of wearing a dress on Halloween. You happened to run into one of us. I would recommend counseling for your issue of getting over this relationship. Your cross-dressing friend probably thought he was in utopia because he found an accommodating woman. Sometimes people are star struck in the initial stages of the relationship and then reality sets in.

My wife has never seen me dressed. I do not want her to see me dressed. She did not abhor the cross-dressing for decades. Then it became an issue for her, probably due to sexual issues in her youth prior to knowing her. Now she sees only my cross-dressing side. We are living more like brother and sister. Would I want more? Yes! Would she want more? Yes. We love each other! At our ages, the sex drive is somewhat naturally reduced. At your age, you need a male more to your choosing. Just look at it as a betrayal of one man. What if the lovers was into BDSM and you accommodated his feelings once, but, it was interpreted as something to do all the time? Or, if the s/o convinced you to use drugs once? Or drink heavily once? Then all the activities became the focal point of the relationship for him.

And that is why i will never love again ... i'm so done

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pythos

....You just sound like you need to remove the chip off your shoulder.....In answer to your final question I ask this. Have you thought about the pain you just put your SO through just now....

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The self-centeredness and complete lack of empathy we cd'ers often show is horrible. TOF gave and gave and gave and just when she thought she might receive a little in return, then:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by turned.off.forever

... One day we had sex as a "normal" couple, and it felt sooo nice, I almost secretely started crying because I had missed it so much, so much.. to feel like a woman.. As I was enjoying it, he turned to me and said "that s how I want you to make love to me". It was so turning off...

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Enuf said!

Show me an insensitive man and I'll show you an insensitive golfer, race fan, business associate, father, son, oh, and yes maybe even a crossdresser. Show me a sensitive man and I'll show you the same. The insensitivity doesn't come from any of those things, it comes from selfishness and lack of caring. I appreciate what you are saying and I appreciate that given societies attitudes about crossdressing it may seem to be your issue. It is too bad you do not know more of us. You would find that some of us are very caring, very giving and yes very sensitive. I hope you find the man you are looking for but don't preclude someone because he may share a particular need or interest with the one with just dumped.

Hello TOF,

From a womens p.o.v. I am a genetic women, married to a cd for 35 [ almost 36 years.] and I have seen bad relationships in all kinds of people.

I need to ask What in the world kept you there ? You found the most selfish PERSON on earth , Who happened to be a CD. But you chose to stay... why?

I'm sorry you are hurt right now and I really don't think even you understand why or how it got this bad.... But Please , for you own well being be more carefull who you choose to spend time with. CDs don't have a corner on being selfish, neither do men, or women. We're all just people. Unlike some of the responders here , I'd never ever call or have any contact with your EX.
Time will heel and you will find someone more loveing within what you want.

Be more secure in who you are before you commit.
Best wishes,
Presh GG

Quote:

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Originally Posted by turned.off.forever

...One day we had sex as a "normal" couple, and it felt sooo nice, I almost secretely started crying because I had missed it so much, so much.. to feel like a woman.. As I was enjoying it, he turned to me and said "that s how I want you to make love to me". It was so turning off...

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OK I'm going to ask a question. Did you ever actually make your desire to have sex as a "normal couple" explicitly known to your partner? I'm not talking about dropping hints or giving positive feedback to the desired behaviors, but an actual statement of "I'd like to have you make love to me in the traditional male manner."

Men are often accused of being poor communicators, but communication is a two-way street. Wanting something badly is no guarantee that the partner will pick up on those desires. Learn from my mistakes.

I can't predict his answer, but if he were to say that he wouldn't be able to satisfy your desire then it's time to split up, and rightly so. His response is more likely to be that he didn't realize that the roles were that important to you and of course he can do this for you.

I wish both you and him well and hope that my response is helpful to you both.

Eryn

First, welcome to the forum!! I hope you stay with us, and maybe find some answers!

Eryn and some others, gave you you some very good responses. I would like to add mine. I told my late wife that I was a cossdresser before we married. She accepted me that way, because I told her that no matter what clothing I had on I was alwys her MAN!! Unfortunately, a lot of MTF CD's apparently don't think the way I do. God made me, and every other MTF CD, males! We were born as males, and unless there is certaqin surgery we will die as males. Wearing a dress, panties and a bra does not turn me into a woman! That is not possible, no matter what some CD's think! The man you were with apparently thought that dressing like a woman made him one, and therefore he should be treated that way. As I already said, he is a man and will be unless he has surgery!

But Eryn is very right about communication. If you and he are still together, in any way, you need to let him know that you want to be treated as the lady that you are! Just tell him flat out that you don't want to be the male partner in sex, because you are a female!! His answer will tell you whether you two belong together!

The best of luck to you!!

I don't know if you're still reading these responses, but I thought I should put my two cents in.
From what I can see, what you both had was not a relationship. I guess we may have missed some bits of what you said, but like many said, I have to stress the importance of communication. It seemed like there was NONE of that at all. I'd like to think that most, if not all of us, would want a significant other to feel comfortable with both our male and female selves. Or our female selves, if one so chooses. I know what you went through was horrible, and believe me, your ex-SO was pretty selfish from the get go, it seemed, but at the same time, did you let him know? It seems you could have avoided so much pain by just understanding what each of you wanted, and if it didn't work out, you would have been able to move on.
I just want to apologize on his behalf as well, since I am one who wants to remove the negative stigmas people associate with crossdressing. You sound like a sweet person, and I wish you the best of luck finding someone who truly loves you and can communicate their desires and attend to yours.

Sounds like a lack of communication going on, combined with possibly him being selfish & expecting you to always play a "top" role, in addition to him being dressed for that. Whether a relationship with crossdressing involved or not, people have to communicate their needs or you have a recipe for disaster.
Not all CD's are like that guy, reasonable ones will listen to their woman's needs & that may mean not dressing in the bedroom. Also it should be mentioned not all men are so selfish, regardless of being a CD.




"We speak of being “submissive” but have no idea what that means. The idea of being bound is foreign to us because we want to be in control. This is because we are “MEN”."
Speak only for yourself. You DO NOT speak the truth for ALL men, ALL CD's, etc.

joan658 pretty much said what I was planning to say.

Welcome to the forum!

It really does (always) come down to communication, and the willingness to be ultimately selfless and selfish at the same time. I only found my fem self 6 years ago after 55 years of thinking I was "just" a male. For my wife and me, this started conversations that opened up massive new vistas in our relationship, and different was of communicating. You'd chuckle as she and I talk about Tina, and then she and Tina talk about me! It's bizarre, but completely unincombering. It led to emotional understandings and agreements, such as, "when she wants her man, she gets him!". That seems like a very small limitation on Tina in exchange for her existence and the support of my wife!

Given that background, it seems to me that, as many have said, it comes down to knowing what parts of a relationship are worth to you. If you want intimacy from your partner in classic gender roles, at least part of the time, then he has to be told this, and if his priorities match, you and he will be very happy. If not, you both need to realize that it's just not going to work. I'm not trying to be harsh here, just realistic. However, there are 3 billion men on this planet, and I have no doubt that a great many of the ones that are not in a committed relationship will have priorities that will well match yours! It's all about "talking it out" and then agreeing to keep talking :)

selfish and selfless...:)

again, glad to have you with us!

tina

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mary Morgan

Show me an insensitive man and I'll show you an insensitive golfer, race fan, business associate, father, son, oh, and yes maybe even a crossdresser. Show me a sensitive man and I'll show you the same. The insensitivity doesn't come from any of those things, it comes from selfishness and lack of caring.

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Well said...I am sorry you had to go through what you went through and maybe in hindsight, you can see clearer so as not to make similar mistakes in relationships such as staying with someone who clearly didn't care about your feelings. Please don't paint all of us with the same brush. As far as "fun for" us, I can assure you there are many here who have not had the level of fun you are describing from your ex. A lot of us just want someone to love us for us even if they never get involved in our feminine side. There are many that feel being en femme is the ultimate turn-on and then there are others who are not turned on by it at all. We are as unique in this community as any other community and as you enter into your next relationship, don't settle for something that is only part of what you are looking for. Make it clear up front and you will weed through people who won't take care of you.

I'm sorry that this selfish person made you feel the way you do, but do understand that he's not like that because he's a crossdresser, but because he's selfish and insensitive.

Sorry to post so late in the day, just caught this thread...

Most of us on this site may be CD but we are also people, and people come in all sorts of other shapes and sizes.

I would never treat my partner like that and never have. This has nothing to do with CDing it is to do with mutual respect, love, and all that stuff. To me, my wife's feelings, needs and wants are paramount and if I have a flaw it is that I do not assert my needs and wants enough.

So it may be that this guy isn't for you... but do not think everyone is like this because they are not! I hope you find your true soul mate. If you keep trying, you will...

I'm sorry, I have read and re read the op, and I do not see exactly where the CD was selfish. I do see a tremendous lack of communication on both parts. I read a woman saying she did not feel like a woman, and being rejected as a woman....which just made no sense to me. How can a woman not feel like a woman...hell, what the heck does that mean anyway? I don't get that. That would be like me saying that "my woman does not make me feel like a man" It baffles my mind.

I urge people to read the OP, cause this is quickly turning into a "selfish CD" thread, and I do not see such.

Has anyone read this line?

"I didn t show him/her I didn't like it. In fact, sometimes I liked it, (after getting drunk), but I made an effort to like it. "

She also said that she sometimes expresses her Yang side, but also puts in parentheses that this is not done through crossdressing. I may read that wrong but there is to me a definite knock against people that crossdress to express their opposite gender side.

It sounds like the two of you were really incompatible and that you had a big problem with his crossdressing (as well as his a perceived lack of tact and sensitivity). Leaving out the lack of tact and sensitivity (which would be enough alone for you to head for the door), you are not alone amoung women who are turned off by intimantcy with crossdressers. While it doesn't bother women to have CDs for friends and acquaintances, relatively few women want us for lovers or husbands, so you are far from alone in that regard.

As far as do "we want to cause pain" the answer to that is we don't really chose to be this way, we just are. The most unhappy TGs I know are those people who try to suppress it. So it really isn't somthing we choose to do, like wearing a red sweater or a blue sweater, its what and who we are and denying that part of ourselves would cause us pain and stress. I'm sure your best bet is to have relationships with guys who are not TG or CD---as far as the lack of sensitivity, you might read the book Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus---often times its not so much that guys are insensitive, its that they speak a different language than women.

Dear turned off forever,
I am very curious about 2 things. First your one and ONLY post on this thread starter was today at 4:35 am. As of this writing there have been 38 posted replies of all nature, many deeply serious with constructive advice, some pink fog selfish responses by those CD's who are self centered and cannot ever see your or any females point much less pain... but my biggest question here is this, why have you not responded to any posts given here by dozens of us? Certainly there had to be several that hit a nerve and sparked enragement and others that reassured you as to your logic. With one post it seems , on the surface this is a flash in the pan post and you truly are gone forever and not even attempting to look at all the hard work put forth here by many. Are you indeed gone forever and never to sign on again.??? We all have ways of checking the last time you were on... hour and minute.
My initial thought is that you have so much anger and hatred for us that cause you such pain then I wonder why the hell did you even choose this site, or post on the Genetic Female section or another womens venting web page entirely. If you are indeed the victim here i do feel for you because over 35 years I've done the same selfish narcissistic sexual withholding from my wife. I've been there and we're still together... happily.
we are met with silence and indiffence to your lack of response.Why?
better that you go,and get us out of your hair and I say that kindly.

Best of luck to you. Really!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Megan70

Dear turned off forever,
I am very curious about 2 things. First your one and ONLY post on this thread starter was today at 4:35 am. As of this writing there have been 38 posted replies of all nature, many deeply serious with constructive advice, some pink fog selfish responses by those CD's who are self centered and cannot ever see your or any females point much less pain... but my biggest question here is this, why have you not responded to any posts given here by dozens of us? Certainly there had to be several that hit a nerve and sparked enragement and others that reassured you as to your logic. With one post it seems , on the surface this is a flash in the pan post and you truly are gone forever and not even attempting to look at all the hard work put forth here by many. Are you indeed gone forever and never to sign on again.??? We all have ways of checking the last time you were on... hour and minute.
My initial thought is that you have so much anger and hatred for us that cause you such pain then I wonder why the hell did you even choose this site, or post on the Genetic Female section or another womens venting web page entirely. If you are indeed the victim here i do feel for you because over 35 years I've done the same selfish narcissistic sexual withholding from my wife. I've been there and we're still together... happily.
But for the moment I cannot take you seriously when we are met with silence and and indiffence to your lack of response.
better that you go,and get us out of your hair and I say that kindly.

Best of luck to you. Really!

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I've been suspicious about her from the BEGINNING, Megan!:Angry3:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Megan70

. . . I cannot take you seriously when we are met with silence and and indifference to your lack of response. . .

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Come on now Megan, it's a bit early to be raising hell about that just yet isn't it? A lot of us (especially me) spend a great deal of time in front of a PC, but there are those who don't. Some folks only get on the internet once a week or so - the freaks! LOL
Anyway, I just think it's a bit early to be accusing her of a hit and run . . .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TxKimberly

Come on now Megan, it's a bit early to be raising hell about that just yet isn't it? A lot of us (especially me) spend a great deal of time in front of a PC, but there are those who don't. Some folks only get on the internet once a week or so - the freaks! LOL
Anyway, I just think it's a bit early to be accusing her of a hit and run . . .

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You're right, never thought about frequency differentials, Touche!, will edit my last post and strike that sentence.
Sorry

Well, my Troll-o-meter is still sitting pretty high, considering the OP's inflammatory first post and complete lack of activity afterward. However, one of the positive aspects of this forum is that just about everyone is taken seriously and this post is no exception. If the OP is a troll the thread will fade away with no effect other than some healthy introspection on the part of the participants. If the OP is not a troll perhaps she will learn something from the responses. Either way, it's a positive outcome.

Dear Turned,

Relationships are complex... man to man. woman to woman, and man to woman... they are all the same... selfishness and expectations are what does them in... infinite patience and unconditional Love is what causes relationships to survive and blossom... and sometimes it takes years for a couple to get it together... Cross Dressing has nothing to do with it... I have made love in a chenise, a cami, and a T-shirt dress... the only comments I got were "Cute"

I think I will be hopping on the Troll bandwagon too.

Who other than an insenstitive and thoughtless person comes onto a forum with a name like this, and then tells a tale of woe, followed by nothing.

Big troll. I have a feeling this story is pretty much made up.

I am not sure about you all, but I kinda do some courting, before even thinking about making love. I would think that during the courting the propensity of the CD to want to be treated like a woman would surface. If it dead, then the OP should have gotten a good idea what they were in for, and could have spoken up, or given those signals many women like to give, and for some reason many men seem to miss.

I know for my self I like to switch back and forth, though usually I like to be in the "male" role. At least when it comes to the non sexual aspects of intimacy. But I also like my GG to run her fingers along my body, and touch me in ways that seem to be only women want to. Once again another binary construct. I am a very sensuous person and love to have such done. But in exchange I will do what she would like. you know, the fine balance that is a relationship.

I'm glad that I was the one to bring up this "doubt" several posts ago. Its obvious by now we've been had, with all of our hard work and compassion and concern for what I believe is a phony who had no business being here and wasting our time. I suggest this be our last post on this thread and it be stricken or locked. Enough of this crap.She has no interest or courtesy to respond to any of us... if it indeed is a GG... i doubt it. " Forget about it"

I will keep my post short and sweet: everyone is different, including crossdressers. You cant paint everyone with the same brush. Everyone is not your ex. Perhaps he is a selfish self absorbed person who just happens to crossdress. Doesn't mean we are all that way.

What you expect, you get from life. Have a positive expectation and you will find love. Expect less, and you will get just that. Good luck girl.
:-)

This forum is open to all adults over 18 years of age. That said, I am closing this thread before the slings and arrows start. If the Original Poster wishes to respond to this thread then she can start a new thread.