when will we be accepted??

I was at this store just now just wearing women's uggs, jeans and a flanney. I was a guy (Jeff) there was 2 girls working and a gay guy, they were polite, but even the gay man (kid) was uncomfortable. do we have to pretend we are gay? if we do that, THEN WE REALLY ARE TRANSPARENT. Gay people are COOL, but what I dont understand, women LOVE THE GUY THATS GAY and just ignore us, totally. any advice? when a guy, just wear all guy clothes? women do find it strange, as a guy when i complement there shoes also. what kind of part time job can I get that allows social interaction on the job and just let EVREY BODY get to know me, then they wont have to try to understand, itll just click.

Honestly? I dont think that the problem lies with other people most of the time - it's US.
When you are nervous and uncomfortable yourself, it makes people nervous and uncomfortable to be around you. If you are bold as hell and dont give a shit, most people will treat you well.

I'm expecting progress to pick up next year if we make it through 12/21/12. That is the wild card.:)

I don't look for it in my life-time! And at the rate things are deteriating in America this is gona be a luxury most of us won't be able to afford anyway. We may be the last of the Mohegans.

I think Kimberly has it correct. Sometimes I think we are like shadow people.

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree with you on this one. In normal day to day interaction with the public, I've found women love me, and flock around me. All the SA's want to help me, the manicure girls all want to see the finished product, I get unsolicited compliments, etc. Sure, alot of it is curiousity, but at least it's never hostile. I have a group of GG friends that meet at our coffee shop every morning, and the subject of gay friends has come up. The concensus was 'not for them'. Men, on the other hand, just ignore me. I prefer the company of women anyway.- Celeste
P.S. -please don't for a minute think I'm saying we are universally accepted. Still a long, long way to go there. I'm just glad to have my little corner of that universe. Let's just always be ladies, and charm our way into their hearts one at a time.

One question for a comparison here. Jsunic you appear to be dressed as a guy in girl clothes, presenting as a guy. Celeste, do you refer to your experiences as dressed enfemme, presenting female. i suspect Kimberly is referring to being enfemme, and presenting female. In my opinion the ambiguous presentation is what confuses people and makes them more uncomfortable than a pure female presentation. One they understand more than the other. That does not detract from your statement that even this should be accepted, but I fear it is just harder.

Barbara

Gays are accepted because they are mainstream now. Transgendered people on the other hand do not get as much exposure. When we do, it generally bad. People don't know how to react to us because there's no blueprint of behavior for them to follow.

I often go out with jeans, blouse and heals with no makeup. I really don't like makeup. I sometimes get looks but for the most part am treated just like anyone else. I really don't care just want to be me and I think it is all in the attitude. We won't be accepted until we get out there and are seen. People are only afraid of what they don't know and since we tend to hide, we are, for the most part unknown to the general public.

Well, either an awful lot of folks here are lying about being totally "accepted" [as in seldom IF EVER had a bad experience out in public no matter how "completely" they choose to present as a female... [Personally I have not had even one bad experience in 10+ years and I am in no way trying to present as a female]

Orrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr, you don't read many threads?

How about a third option. Both?

I think Kimberly made a really great point. In many ways it's down to transgender people to help change people's perception. (Not that I'm doing much in that regard.)

But I would like to add that in terms of general acceptance and public awareness I believe crossdressers are many years behind gay people (transsexual awareness seems to be growing, slowly maybe but something's better than nothing!). In fact I don't think it will ever be 'normal' for men to wear women's clothes, i.e. something that wouldn't even be worthy of a passing comment by people who've clocked you in a bar or something. At least not in the West within its current culture. Best you can do is smile, present a positive image and not give a shit.

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Originally Posted by tgirlceleste

and the subject of gay friends has come up. The concensus was 'not for them'.

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I agree with the tone of your post and most of the content but wtf with this comment? If the consensus among your friends is they wouldn't have any gay friends then that's a little sad. What if I said the consensus among my GG friends is they wouldn't want any CD friends?

Besides I'll bet you a buck that they already have gay friends, they just don't know it.

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Originally Posted by TxKimberly

Honestly? I dont think that the problem lies with other people most of the time - it's US.
When you are nervous and uncomfortable yourself, it makes people nervous and uncomfortable to be around you. If you are bold as hell and dont give a shit, most people will treat you well.

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This is 100 percent reality! Sissy Stephanie is a great example of a a guy that wears feminine clothing and doesn't try to pass himself off as a woman. He is treated with respect and dignity because he is quite comfortable with himself and has a "don't give a crap attitude". If you act like a scared rabbit, folks will wonder what you are up to and will treat you badly.

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Originally Posted by Barbara Ella

One question for a comparison here. Jsunic you appear to be dressed as a guy in girl clothes, presenting as a guy. Celeste, do you refer to your experiences as dressed enfemme, presenting female. i suspect Kimberly is referring to being enfemme, and presenting female. In my opinion the ambiguous presentation is what confuses people and makes them more uncomfortable than a pure female presentation. One they understand more than the other. That does not detract from your statement that even this should be accepted, but I fear it is just harder.

Barbara

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I believe that folks that choose to appear as a man in a skirt are more easily accepted than a crossdresser that doesn't pass. On the other hand, the person that passes as a woman because of completely passing.

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Originally Posted by Ashley Allison

Gays are accepted because they are mainstream now. Transgendered people on the other hand do not get as much exposure. When we do, it generally bad. People don't know how to react to us because there's no blueprint of behavior for them to follow.

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There is no blueprint for how to react to use because unlike gays, we simply hide and cower in the closet waiting for society to become a more accepting place. This is the reason that we don't make progress!! Our gay brothers and sisters had the guts to get out there and show folks that they are proud of who and what they are. Why can't we transgendered folks do that same?

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Originally Posted by Brianna612

I often go out with jeans, blouse and heals with no makeup. I really don't like makeup. I sometimes get looks but for the most part am treated just like anyone else. I really don't care just want to be me and I think it is all in the attitude. We won't be accepted until we get out there and are seen. People are only afraid of what they don't know and since we tend to hide, we are, for the most part unknown to the general public.

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Amen! Get out there an be seen as a man in a skirt, heels, makeup, etc. That is the only way to invoke change.

If every city ran an ad campaign like Wash. D.C., has going, we would have exposure, at least as a class. Hopefully, that's successful. I do get treated well by all the SA's where I've purchased wigs.

I agree that getting while dressed is the best way to gain acceptance.

Gender is for most people a way to determine the appropriate interactions that one can have with others. If we show people that we are predictable in our behavior, we can gain their acceptance.

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Originally Posted by Jamie001

There is no blueprint for how to react to use because unlike gays, we simply hide and cower in the closet waiting for society to become a more accepting place. This is the reason that we don't make progress!! Our gay brothers and sisters had the guts to get out there and show folks that they are proud of who and what they are. Why can't we transgendered folks do that same?

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I think it's probably easier - and more convenient - for a crossdresser to keep their dressing secret than it is for a gay person to keep their sexuality secret.

I fully agree with the people who are saying that a huge part of it is how we behave. If we are very confident and comfortable, people tend to be confident and comfortable around us. I cannot tell you how many times I've been in a situation where it dawned on me that everyone around me was at least subconsciously waiting to see how I was going to behave before they knew how to act around me. The more at ease I am, and even when I'm willing to joke about it, the more relaxed others are.

The thing to remember is that we've had our whole lives to get accustomed to this, and a lot of times we're still conflicted about it, so there should be some degree of slack cut to those who are just now being exposed to it. And the more public we are and the more positive we are when we do that, the better for us all in the long run.

Are there bad eggs out there who will always be negative? Sure. Of course. And it's the same for gay people, women, Jewish people, African Americans, Latinos, et al. All we can do is rise above.

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Originally Posted by jsunic_1978

Gay people are COOL

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And so are we!

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Originally Posted by TxKimberly

Honestly? I dont think that the problem lies with other people most of the time - it's US.
When you are nervous and uncomfortable yourself, it makes people nervous and uncomfortable to be around you. If you are bold as hell and dont give a shit, most people will treat you well.

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:yt: That wraps it all up to me. If you are confident in who you are, then people accept you for who you are. I know it is a tough thing for many of us, so I am not saying there is a magic light switch. There are a lot of parts to getting to that point. But as you read through everything here, the stories of those who are okay with who they are and go out don't normally have bad situations in those stories.

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Originally Posted by Kate Simmons

I'm expecting progress to pick up next year if we make it through 12/21/12. That is the wild card.:)

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Kate; I will bet you a whole nickle that the sun comes up on 12/22/2012. Don't ask me why, but I have this
premonition about the sun still dong what it has been doing for a long time now. If you remember back when
we went from 1999 to 2000, some one said the world would stop. Well we survived that one, and I think we
will survive this one. Besides, the government is broke, and if the world ended, we would not have to pay taxes,
so you see, the world just can not quit like that; The governments of the world would not like the loss of income.
LOL\Rader

I know what things appear to be Rader but there are things going on in the background and at higher levels that most are not privy to. I have some insights in that direction and my purpose here is to point others in a pragmatic direction.:battingeyelashes::)

I say, let's not sweat it.

Get dolled up. Go out. Have a good time.

About the same time any minority is accepted.

Kimberly has it right. I own it when I am out and so far in the last 6 months---maybe 6 people said something I could consider negative (and most of those were just ignorance and maybe more clumsy ways of trying to be nice). Any minority that physically is distinguishable will always have someone who has to either be afraid or has to try and somehow make themselves feel above the rest of us. But, we have to be willing to be out and seen. We have to not be afraid of ourselves. One of the major issues we have with ourselves is that we can disappear whenever things get rough and if you read the posts here you see that happens a lot.

"The Gays" did not get what little respect they have by hiding out. And don't think they have it easy (just look how many here scream from the top of the mountain "I AM NOT GAY!!!!"...like it is a bad thing. You want acceptance, accept everyone else).

Just be yourself hon, waiting for the general publics acceptance is like waiting for for tomorrow. Just be confident and express yourself being confident and you ill be happy.

relax and enjoy who you are most people don't care if you are confident and except your self first ,every thing else will fall into place there are allways those who don't even like them selfs

susie

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Originally Posted by tgirlceleste

I prefer the company of women anyway.

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I could not agree with you more! My doctor, optometrist, financial planner, dentist, relator, best friends, personal trainer, wife, favorite cat and every friend I have are all female. I simply don't find men interesting in any real way.

I had to stop playing softball because I simply could not relate to the guys on my team.

Why spend my time dealing with guys when I could be learning from women?

Meghan

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Originally Posted by TxKimberly

Honestly? I dont think that the problem lies with other people most of the time - it's US.
When you are nervous and uncomfortable yourself, it makes people nervous and uncomfortable to be around you. If you are bold as hell and dont give a shit, most people will treat you well.

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The way to gain confidence is by going out, living your life. I have been full time for a couple years now and still get jitters once in a while but it fades pretty fast. I leave the house wearing what some might call "daring" and feel a bit nervous, I get in my car and my nervousness soon turns to "when is this stupid car gonna fall apart?"

But yeah for real - if you don't act nervous and just live your life, people are less likely to be rude. The few that will still be rude are usually trashy people who do not matter anyways.

With women loving gay men - I have no clue why that is. I mean who really cares what consenting adults do behind closed doors, but some gay men act all swishy and I personally think it is obnoxious. I have yet to see a CD or TS act swishy like that, regardless of their respective "levels" of gender identity.

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Originally Posted by TxKimberly

Honestly? I dont think that the problem lies with other people most of the time - it's US.
When you are nervous and uncomfortable yourself, it makes people nervous and uncomfortable to be around you. If you are bold as hell and dont give a shit, most people will treat you well.

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Could not have been said better...

Presenting as a guy in female attire looks odd and you stand out.
Every body has worked out what a gay guy is but less know what we might be.
Wear a dress and don't pass and you may be more acceptable as you do not present as weird but as a guy in a dress.
Stepping out with confidence has a great effect as well.

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Originally Posted by TxKimberly

Honestly? I dont think that the problem lies with other people most of the time - it's US.
When you are nervous and uncomfortable yourself, it makes people nervous and uncomfortable to be around you. If you are bold as hell and dont give a shit, most people will treat you well.

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I went into a "we ship everthing" store in male mode but wearing a leotard and jeans. The macho man who greeted me immediately gave a most unsettling look when he saw me walk in. However, I acted like everything was a-ok and the guy treated me normally. Except for the god-awful expensive quote to ship a package overnight.

Re-reading this thread, I've noticed a couple comments suggesting one "camp" or the other has it easier. Some seem to think folks like me who dress as male but in female clothes have it easier, some think those who present clearly as trying to blend have it easier. I think that is a very divisive and unhealthy game to play. The truth is we all have our aspects that make us more or less accepted, and we all could probably share a mixed bag of things going great and things going badly. Rather than sit around thinking about how good the other side has it we should remember we're all the same side and only by all of us getting out there will we make a change.

I don't know, I think a lot of acceptance depends on where you live. I'm kind of in the big huge "hubcap beltbuckle" of the Bible belt, in my tiny little town (it says "population 100,000" but they're counting the sheep twice) there are over 300 churches and people here are very close minded about many things. It's VERY different here than it is from Austin. There are people that are die hard about that line in the Bible about men wearing women's clothes being an 'abomination before God' - the same people who are wearing 50% cotton, 50% polyester clothes (which is also an abomination before God, same book of the Bible), and they will get in your face and tell you in no uncertain and high volume terms.

For many things, this is a great little town - very little traffic, very little crime, low cost of living and a very dry climate which is good for my wrecked shoulder and spine. But I don't go out dressed here. I don't need the grief that comes with it.

Melissa

"When will I be accepted?" - a question most people ask, usually all through their life, in many situations, over and over. As Kimberly and others stated, it usually depends upon the person who seeks acceptance, as well as those they seek acceptance from. Acceptance by other kids, by school mates, by team members, by family members, by neighbors, in the Service, at work, by in-laws (sorry to add the impossible), etc. We do worry about acceptance, perhaps too much, but can't dismiss our needs.

If you heighten the "acceptance barriers" by crossdressing (which we do), then you must be: great looking and blend (readily "pass"); or be very selective about where you go and who you are with; or diminish your desires to be generally "accepted".

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Originally Posted by jsunic_1978

but what I dont understand, women LOVE THE GUY THATS GAY and just ignore us, totally..

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Hi All

That's because they don't feel threatened. A threatened woman is "hell on wheels":heehee:
Women will never accept the "brainfarts"(Talking about me so nobody get thier feelings hurt)we dish out. Don't believe me?......marry one
But,the fun part is you battle with someone you love and you know your always going to give in.

When are they gonna learn:daydreaming:

:)

Thera

I often wonder if it has alot to do with the "vibes" that an individual gives off. If you don't feel comfortable with yourself... then why would any one else? Animals, like cats, dogs, and horses can tell when someone is nervious, or something is not right, so that sets them off. Does the same thing happen with humans? I am prone to think so. No one likes a phony person, to me the secret is to be comfortable with who you are and present an air of confidence, people like to hang out with other confident people.

i am much more accepted presenting as a female, but sometimes i just want to be a guy in womens clothes, thats what people dont understand the most, but im treated ok.

when I showed the store workers of me fully dressed they were enlightend. I dont want to appear femm all the time as i am straight and i like women. They were just young kids working and I think I just interrupted there party as I was checking out and hoped i would take more time to look so they can keep chit chatting. They were pretty nice to me. I thjink I just think too much

Evreyonr has GREAT COMMENTS People that tell me that have seen me in wig make up say i still dont pass. So around where i live, i just present as a guy. I actually went to my corner pubb just last night, neighborhood bar. Evrey single person accpets me, also, they knew me for years which helps. onr guy did say, hey, why is this guy carrying a purse? he just wanted to ask and thats ok. I just said because I feel like it and it looks fun as women carry them :)

I klike your comment Gillian. I can see how an off day of mine can affect my confidences. On an off day from now on, ill leave the female gear alone all together. I really do want to go to stores i usually dont go to and buy some shoes a beautiful female sales associate has tried on. but, no one ever will try to understand shoe fetishes so, ill just buy at the second hand younger womens clothing stores and ill just let the SA ack :)

Acceptance comes with understanding, and if crossdressers don't understand themselves, how can anyone else??

Just sayin'.

Lots of people accept us. My problem is, crossdressing pretty much destroys any sexual attraction most women might feel towards us, to the extent that, over 99% of women simply aren't interested in dating a crossdresser at all, ever. With about 2.5% of all men crossdressing on a regular basis, that leaves well over 2/3's of us with absolutely no chance of ever finding anyone. And finding them? Virtually impossible unless you're willing to out yourself to the world, and even then, the chances are still very slim indeed.

Well, crosdressers comming out are still kind of new to the most of the population. It will take time and they will get used to seeing us. However, we need to put ourselves out there so we can be gotten used to as it were.... like I always say, "The more common place we make ourselves, the more common place we'll become