The Gender Gestapo: Still Lurking

This afternoon, I thought I'd kill some time and generate some dopamine by going on a Macy's > Burlington > TJ Maxx run. This particular Macy's has always been one of my favorite stores because the men's fitting rooms are right next to the women's and juniors' (Don't hate: I favor a youthful look, and the cuts are a little better suited to my body) departments. No-one's ever tending the men's rooms, so I have a pleasant DADT relationship with this store.

Anyways, I checked out a couple of men's garments, no luck. Made a run to women's - nothing good for the price. I hit up the juniors', and came up equally stumped. As usual, I left all the garments on the rack at the fitting room door. On my way into the mall, a couple of long skirts and tops caught my eye, so I grabbed a selection and went back to the room. As I was about 2/3 of the way through the possible combos, I heard the rustling of someone at the unwanted clothing rack, moving hangars around. I didn't think much of it, except that I might be greeted with a pair of wide eyes when I emerged.

Then the guy walks back into the dressing rooms, apparently to see if any are occupied. I hear him beep onto his radio, and to my surprise, I hear him say "Yeah, I'm going to need to see the camera on C. There's, uh, a bunch of women's and juniors' clothing here in the men's fitting room." I could hear the palpable excitement in his voice as it shook, as if he'd caught a predator, or was about to lay into a burglar in his home with a bat.

Sheez, I thought. I'm going to be dragged into some upstairs office by this ignoramus and grilled about why I was trying on Jessica Simpson dresses in the men's room. Just a bit ruffled, I went through the rest of the clothes and decided I didn't want any of them. What appetite for fashion I had remaining had disappeared.

And so I went out to face the music, mentally sharpening a few good barbs. "Oh, have I violated some sort of ordinance?", "I'm sorry, I was unaware my credit card isn't welcome at this establishment," "Is this because my top clashes with the skirt?", etc. I placed the rest of my items on the rack and casually scanned about. It didn't appear that I was being watched. Perhaps he'd gone to grab his taser off its charger.

I didn't really care to linger and find out. I had more stores left to hit, and I wasn't in the mood to answer questions that no-one had any business asking - even if they would result in my demanding a store credit at the conclusion of the proceedings.

It's just funny. I've gotten so used to unhindered shopping, that it was quite a surprise to realize I'd raised someone's hackles, just going about my business. It's easy to forget that some DBs are out there, convinced that our community must be committing some kind of crime. Disappointing, really.

A quick aside: after I left the mall, I went across the street to Burlington. On my way out of the fitting room there, I chuckled to see a couple of skirts and cut-off tops hanging on the rack - as I often see ladies' garments hanging there. I've never gotten any more than a raised eyebrow at that store. Apparently they get a little more trans-traffic than the local Macy's.

C'est la vie, I guess...

If they worried as much about the Juniors fashions that walk out the door unpaid for they would be better off.

I like your shopping plan Let me rephrase what you wrote

Quote:

---

going on a Expensive> Less expensive > even less expensive run

---

That way if you make through the first one and you still have money you can continue. However if you went the opposite direction you may spend that 20$ you NEED at Macy's :)

1. The life of a security guard is boring, mostly.
2. Yeah, we aren't there yet in terms of tolerance,
3. I'm sure he was looking for signs of criminal activity, no telling though what would've happened if he'd found you. I'm sure it would've been embarrassing.

Sounds like a dreadful experience though. :(

OMG What a dreadful experience. Never shop there again darlin. Many HUGZ !

Where was the camera?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lorileah

I like your shopping plan Let me rephrase what you wrote That way if you make through the first one and you still have money you can continue. However if you went the opposite direction you may spend that 20$ you NEED at Macy's :)

---

Yup! I figure I am way more likely to find something I will like at Macy's - even on clearance. I'd rather spend a little more on something I like a lot. And if all else fails, I'll buy some substitute stuff at the other stores and hope it works out for me. As a bonus, it makes sense geographically for me that the stores are in that order.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PaulaQ

3. I'm sure he was looking for signs of criminal activity, no telling though what would've happened if he'd found you. I'm sure it would've been embarrassing.

---

Well, I'm a little offended by the implication that a crossdresser presents a higher risk for shoplifting than any other member of the populace. I suppose it's not surprising, given media portrayal of us. Like Lorileah said - they'd be better off focusing on the people that are just shoplifting straight out of juniors'.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DonnaT

Where was the camera?

---

Beats me. Somewhere near the entrance to the dressing room, I would think. There's no better way to raise suspicion than to look around for all the cameras - LOL. As a CD, I learned long ago that the person acting all nervous is the one who draws attention to his or herself.


As far as to whether or not I'll buy there again - hard to say. Much of the shopping I do there is 'research shopping,' anyways. I go in, pick out a bunch of combos and sizes and styles, and play around to see what works for me and what doesn't. Actual purchases are fewer and farther between - though I do buy both men's & women's there. I think I will contact Macy's with a recap of my experience, and see what they have to say. If I'm satisfied by the response, I'll go back. If not, sayonara. I don't believe in letting one bad apple spoil the bunch, as the cliche puts it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KaliBrooke

Well, I'm a little offended by the implication that a crossdresser presents a higher risk for shoplifting than any other member of the populace. I suppose it's not surprising, given media portrayal of us. Like Lorileah said - they'd be better off focusing on the people that are just shoplifting straight out of juniors'.

---

I think he just found something he didn't expect, and didn't know what to make of it - I wouldn't read more into it than that. Perhaps though, he had dreams of catching a shoplifting CD in the act, and getting a pay raise and media attention. Who knows?

Quote:

---

I think I will contact Macy's with a recap of my experience, and see what they have to say.

---

I'd be surprised if they weren't apologetic - but hey, if they aren't please let us know. I'm be curious about what they have to say about it.

Macy's prides itself (no pun intended) on supporting the LGBT community regarding both customers and employees. Maybe your security guard buddy was a new hire who was getting carried away a bit. I've always heard that they're very trans-friendly as far as customers go.

If you contact them about the incident, let us know what they have to say about it. :)

Carol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KaliBrooke

"...There's, uh, a bunch of women's and juniors' clothing here in the men's fitting room." I could hear the palpable excitement in his voice as it shook, as if he'd caught a predator, or was about to lay into a burglar in his home with a bat.

---

Well, mall cop jobs aren't all that exciting and you probably make his day. You never know, he might have been envisioning a twentysomething woman lurking in the men's dressing room!

Don't let one Neandertal get you down. He doesn't speak for the store.

On the rare occasion that I try something on en drab I make it a point to leave my rejects on the rack in the men's dressing room. I think of it as a way to raise TG awareness among the employees.

Maybe I am being dense or not fully getting it, but I am having some difficulty seeing where the conclusion that the guard was being anti-trans is an absolute given and there are no other alternative reasonable explanations. Security personnel are trained to look for anything out of place or unusual as possible signs of shoplifting. In his mind, finding women's clothing in the men's fitting room was unusual so it warranted follow up. If I am reading the post correctly, all he did was to comment about it and ask to see the camera footage, and he did not make any negative or derogatory LGBT comments. He could have been simply just doing his job. I have two friends who have worked store security, and they have some amazing shoplifting stories about the lengths some have gone to steal stuff. Shoplifters come in all forms, and they will try to steal anything if they think they can get away with it or profit from it.

Confirmational bias pushes us to make conclusions that fit our biases. We all frequently do it. I think most will remember when out your first few times en femme, it was hard not to assume every whispered comment you noticed, laugh you heard, or every look you detected was about you getting read and viewed unfavorably. It is a natural and understandable conclusion.

It is a shame the OPs fitting session was spoiled, but IMHO to say the guard's actions or words were symptomatic of the guard's anti-trans bias may not be right.

I never care what they think I just go to the closest fitting room.
I sure as hell hope the cams are not peering in the dressing room but I'm sure they are.
I came out of the dressing room at a Kohl's store with a skirt and top and an older lady was going in the room next to mine.She glared long and hard at me and said that is disgusting.
I said yeah the top looked cuter on the rack I hope you have better luck.
My SA friend was laughing at me the whole way out into the store,she said OMG that lady looked pissed huh? You ready to try on the other stuff I picked out?
We both head back in and the lady comes out. Now the SA is telling me " girl these are going to be soo cute on you let me see each outfit now no cheating sugar".
My guess is we blew that ladies mind.

Hope you get a positive reply from Macy's Kali. Do let us know. I had a similar occurence at Kohl's in Kalamazoo,MI a while back. But it wasn't anyone who worked there. It was just a random customer. I had just come out of a dressing room and was going to look for something similar that might fit. As I left, I saw a man with what appeared to be his kids giving me the hairy eyeball. Apparently, his daughter(looked to be about 14 yrs old) was searching for a formal dress of some kind. As she entered the dressing rooms I had just left, her father and brother stood on either side of the entrance like guards of some kind with their arms folded watching me look thru some nearby clearance racks. Even tho no words were exchanged, I could feel the derision emanating from them. I had found some other items to try on but felt too intimidated and a little disgusted by the display of ignorance. Instead of trying to go past them I found another set of dressing rooms.Sometimes it just goes with the territory. Sad but true. Hugs,Tonya

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Eryn

On the rare occasion that I try something on en drab I make it a point to leave my rejects on the rack in the men's dressing room. I think of it as a way to raise TG awareness among the employees.

---

That's kind of how I see it - a little signpost that says "Watch out! The weird walk invisibly amongst you!" LOL

I had to chuckle though, because as I left, I had lots more clothes to leave on the rack. Must have blown his mind that his fancy little suspect had so narrowly slipped through his fingers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Melissa Rose

...but I am having some difficulty seeing where the conclusion that the guard was being anti-trans is an absolute given and there are no other alternative reasonable explanations...

---

Perhaps not actively anti-trans, but there's at least some element of inappropriate behavior here. Maybe it speaks to my naivete as a thief, but I fail to see how a pile of clothing on the take-back-rack, irrespective of gender, should arouse suspicions of foul play. If I were stealing something, I wouldn't go around leaving something so anomalous as a pile of women's clothing in the middle of the men's department. And if I were stealing something, I'd probably be departing with any evidence on my body. The inference that women's clothing in a men's fitting room = shoplifting is at the very least a little ignorant and offensive, if not discriminatory. So I want to try on some dresses? Let me do so in peace - and not with the threat of having to explain myself to some wannabe cop looking to make the big apprehension. Regardless of his intent, actions like that take away the 'safe haven' feeling I had come to expect while shopping there.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tracii G

...I came out of the dressing room at a Kohl's store with a skirt and top and an older lady was going in the room next to mine.She glared long and hard at me and said that is disgusting.
I said yeah the top looked cuter on the rack I hope you have better luck.

---

There is some danger to this. Pushing the buttons of people in this older lady's mindset has the danger of turning a moment of personal discomfort into an occasion to pick up a pen and tell her legislator an exaggerated story about the horrible transvestite that accosted her in a dressing room. That's where stupid ideas like the Arizona legislation come from.

That's odd. I thought that Macy's was a staunch supporter of LGBT rights and their policy was to allow transgenders in the correct changing rooms.

http://www.care2.com/causes/one-mill...bt-policy.html

http://www.macys.com/campaign/sitelets/pride/index.jsp

Maybe you would have been better off trying on the women's clothes in the women's changing room.

And maybe the security person thought there were women using the men's changing room, which might have made some men feel uncomfortable. :p

I have had positive experiences at Macy's as well. Although I have found that shopping their on line site ensures better selection of the styles and sizes that I'm looking for (even though I wear a commonly found size 7 regular...). I just stopped by today and found nothing that I was looking/hoping for. On-line works for me... :)

Sorry, but think you are reading way to far into this. One they had something that would typically be perceived out of the norm with women's clothing in the men's fitting room. You also stayed that this fitting room is typically unattended. The more likely conclusion that this loss prevention guy is making is that a female is taking clothing to an unattended area to try something. you also state tha all he said into the radio was he had a bunch of women's and junior's clothing in the men's fitting room. I could understand if he had said something unprofessional or derogatory.

As far as being detained by this loss prevention guy in the future you probably don't need to worry about that. I don't know about Macy's but every retail job I've done the burden of proof that the store's procedures need you to have is so great it's almost not worth trying to catch people. The risk of a lawsuit from a detention and accusation just is not worth it in many cases. If he is wrong and does detain you he'll more than likely not have a job after that.

I as well, don't think the incident was anti anybody, but more a question about why clothes were taken from one section of the store to another. As to stores being afraid of law suits, I walked out of a CompUSA years ago where there is a security guard at the door and we have the following exchange:

SG: Can I look in you bag?
Me: No. (Mind you I had just walked away from the register not 15 feet from him where I purchased one item)
SG: I have to look in your bag.
Me: No you don't. (I start to walk past him, he starts to reach for me.)
Me: Touch me and I will own this store and have you arrested.
SG: What?
Me: Touch me and I will have you arrested for battery and sue the store for unlawful restraint.
SG: Wait here I need to get my manager. (I start to walk to my car)
SG: You have to wait.
Me: No, I don't.

The manager catches up with me in the parking lot and apologizes.

I don't read anything anti trans, or any other discimination in the security guards actions. He found some clothes in the wrong place and suspected some shoplifting. NOT shoplifting by a CD. He wanted to see the video tape. That sounds to me like he was doing his very mundane job diligently. Sometimes paranoia gets the best of us.

KaliBrooke: A couple of points...
1.) As a general rule, Macy's IS CD/TG friendly. I know someone who has been a Macy's employee in a couple of different cities across the U.S. and their training includes specific instructions on how CD/TG customers are to be treated (in brief, with the utmost respect).
2.) I think that what you experienced may be related to security issues at a particular location, not any CD/TG bias or discrimination. I have tried on clothes en femme and en drab at several different stores and I only once encountered a problem when I was not allowed into a fitting room with my SO. It was because the store was located in a downtown area and had high incidents of theft, therefore they were over-vigilant about loss prevention.
Certainly you are free to avoid this store and shop elsewhere; I just don't want to see anyone toss an entire chain under the bus because of an incident at one store.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KaliBrooke

I think I will contact Macy's with a recap of my experience, and see what they have to say.

---

This would be interesting to say the very least. I hope you do as they need to explain to you were the camera is exactly. I found it disturbing that security was right there after you had just left the dressing room. Like they had nothing better to do with their time than harass their customers about what they are trying on or maybe going to buy. I do understand the concept of loss prevention but I will not accept over the top loss prevention methods that have a guard there the minute you walk out of the fitting room.

I don't shop at Macy's, their prices are way too high but this gives me another reason not to. I don't ty on clothes myself, I still do the shot in the dark method though I am getting a lot more hits than misses since I know what sizes I need now :) I give you a lot of credit for even trying things on. I have only tried one pair of pants on at Kmarts but they also went to the register with me ;)

You know, I was thinking just yesterday, I wonder if these company's REALLY do any research to see who is really buying all these dresses, skirts, heels , and pantyhose because the average GG (not all so don't lynch me here lol) stays away from these things like the plague but their sales surly haven't dropped much as they still make them which they wouldn't if they weren't selling them.

I would like to know where the camera was.
They can be concealed in a screw hole, or look like a dome nut less than 1/4 inch in diameter.
I know as I have seen them in operation.
Look for a piece of small ducting apparently going nowhere on a wall and wonder what wire is underneath.
I was successful in revealing one once to everybody's chagrin.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that I'll never shop at Macy's again, nor throw it under the bus. I'm just remarking on a small incident which I do not think was handled appropriately. Even if it all was perfectly innocuous, it made me feel uncomfortable being there, and probably should have been handled a little more tactfully. I mean, it was more or less announced to everyone within at least 50 feet (because that's how far away I was in the dressing room when he radioed it in). Perhaps I am being overly sensitive, but as some of you probably know, being a CD can be a bit awkward at times.

I'd also be shocked if the camera was in the dressing room itself - at least in a major chain such as that. It never even crossed my mind that that might be the case, because it seems perfectly logical that there would be ones right outside the room. And if there is one inside, I always use the same room, so I guess I've given them a show every couple of weeks for the past year and a half. LOL.

In the Macy's stores near me, they normally have one or two in the entry ways to some of the larger dressing rooms. They are in little black domes attached to the ceiling, or cameras attached to the tops of walls at the entry way to the rooms. I need to check to see if they are at every dressing room, including those smaller ones in the specialty sections of the stores. For the billions of dollars lost every year to shoplifting, which is paid for by us honest customers, I am glad that they do that. I just wish that they would process all those thieves to the fullest extent of the law. Sometimes the resulting legal costs are many times higher than the value of stolen item(s), thus making it a lose - lose situation from a financial perspective for some companies.

All I got out of this post was:
Macy's-dressing rooms-cameras ...ggggrrrr

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by KaliBrooke

Perhaps I am being overly sensitive, but as some of you probably know, being a CD can be a bit awkward at times.

---

I understand there are many reasons for CDs to feel awkward, but in this case I do think you are being overly sensitive. You have no reason to believe that the security person was referring to you, especially since Macy's has such a progressive policy regarding transgenders.

The security person might have been concerned about the possibility of theft, for example a young girl choosing to try on clothes in the men's room because it is not well attended, and walking out of the store with some of the items of clothing under her own clothes. Maybe the "camera on C" refers to the entrance to the store. There might be other scenarios that he was thinking about as well.

You should have tried on the clothes in the women's changing room since Macy's supports people who use the changing rooms that match their gender presentation.

I think you're being paranoid. What the store loss prevention person spotted was something out of the ordinary. That usually elicits some sort of inquiry. I suspect he was doing his job. As to the cameras all the store I frequent do have cameras in areas that would be suitable for shop lifting, tag swapping, etc. I've accompanied my wife to various stores and have seen store policy is to take (X) number of garments into the changing area and come out with the same number. I've seen employees run to check the changing cubicles when a customer does not bring out the same number of garments. Did the customer just leave them in the cubicle or stuff them into a large purse, shopping bag, etc? I'm sure most stores have instructed their employees on transgender issues.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ReineD

You should have tried on the clothes in the women's changing room since Macy's supports people who use the changing rooms that match their gender presentation.

---

I was presenting as a guy, though. I generally don't go out shopping en femme. I would expect that if I had been en femme, I would have gone for the ladies' side.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tracii G

I came out of the dressing room at a Kohl's store with a skirt and top and an older lady was going in the room next to mine.She glared long and hard at me and said that is disgusting. I said yeah the top looked cuter on the rack I hope you have better luck.
My SA friend was laughing at me the whole way out into the store,she said OMG that lady looked pissed huh? You ready to try on the other stuff I picked out?
We both head back in and the lady comes out. Now the SA is telling me " girl these are going to be soo cute on you let me see each outfit now no cheating sugar".
My guess is we blew that ladies mind.

---

Thanks, your story made my day. Why some people think they have the right to pop off like that and ridicule someone else is beyond me. I'm glad you both put her in her place. I'm sure you both had fun with it.

The guard didn't say anything to you personally (you were eavesdropping on him BTW). His comments didn't even intimate that he was in anyway anti-TG.

He was doing what he was paid to do, protecting the store's merchandise

Macy's should commend him. I have to ask were you harmed in any way? Did you lose money or any personal property? Were you inconvenienced? (besides having your feelings hurt).

If Macy's apologizes I would like to know why. They will of course. Because they want you as a customer...who tries on women's clothing in the men's dressing room.

it probably went down something like this:

Security Guard to Home Base: "something here doesn't make sense, check out the camera"
Home Base: "we checked out the camera, it's just a crossdresser"
Security Guard: "damn. Imma get me a cinnabon"

just sayin'.

There are NO cameras in the dressing rooms. That would be a human rights violation of such humungous magnitude that it would bring down the retail industry. It's not even an issue.-Celeste

I was in a Sears before and they told me I could not take items from one section to another, but I've done it many times also. I think there could be a couple things going on... maybe the sales person gets a commission based on the register sales, maybe security starts following anyone taking clothes out of the local dept, maybe you looked like you were hiding them. Could be someone else reported you taking clothes because they never saw a male grab a pile of clothes before and the security guard was just saying no problem the clothes are outside the mens change room.

I mentioned a camera in an earlier post, it was in a staff recreation room and not in a dressing room.