Is cross-dressing part of spiritual development?

I believe that cross-dressing is part of spiritual development. I know that may sound crazy but that's the view I have come to after many years of thinking about it (I am 52).

A few things have led me to this, firstly that the need we have to express the feminine part of is very strong and deep within us. We are unable to eradicate these thoughts and feelings no matter how hard we may try. They seem to touch on something very profound. However as it is also mixed with feelings of guilt and perhaps eroticism we sometimes don't realise that this could be more meaningful.

Secondly, I've read quite a bit of Carl Jung and also other esoteric literature (including Qabalah). Carl Jung refers to the 'anima', the normally unconscious feminine side that all men have (women have a corresponding masculine aspect the 'animus'). Part of Jung's development (a process called 'individuation') is to recognise the anima, bring it to consciousness and then reintegrate it into the personality. This is also an idea reflected in the Qabalah and in alchemy.

I believe that cross-dressing is a reflection of the desire to develop ourselves by bringing forth the anima - expressing it (her) physically (the physical aspect makes her more real and brings in the emotions) - and then reintegrating her. If we then accept this part of us - as a true and worthy aspect of ourselves - we can move towards a more complete and intergrated personality.

I'll stop there for now - but am very interested to hear what others may have to say on this topic.

By the way, thanks to LynnR for prompting me to start this thread. I touched on this in my intro and Lynn said she was interested in what I said then but couldn't contribute because the thread was closed.

I agree quite strongly with this idea. I recently stood dressed in a remote place under the stars and acknowledged the spirit world as nina. I have not been struck down by lightning and now feel more at ease with a more complete self.

Nicely described in brief...

There are, of course, many theories over the centuries about the masculine and feminine...

In the big picture of your question, I would agree that their is a strong spiritual aspect being realized in what we do and experience in the process. Specific motivation and cause/effect eludes me as I get older and increasingly "know" less.

I do continue to sense that somehow this is about finding a (dynamic) balance at a spiritual level, here and now. Ripple effects out?

I do enjoy your energy in the quest for understanding and would encourage you to continue.

Kate

Levity is my forte here....
Stop reading Carl Jeung and watch those other spirits that come out of a bottle or wherever.
Don't overthink and just get on with it.

Christine,
It is certainly part of our development and we do vary what we do as we get older and wiser?

I will be watching for more thoughtful replies than mine.
Personally I do not know and do go with the flow whithout too much thought.

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Originally Posted by ChristineReid

I believe that cross-dressing is part of spiritual development.

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So, is a person's spiritual development impaired because he's not a crossdresser?

Psychology? Philosophy? Religion?

Once I recognized that the only truth is the truth itself and accepted myself for the gender faceted being I am, I've been able to spend more energy and time enjoying life instead of worrying about all of that contrived nonsense.

I believe this makes a lot of sense, Christine. We become more "spiritual" and authentic as we become aware of our own, hidden, inner reality. Jung also says each of us has a shadow side. For males, this "shadow" includes their anima (female principle). Our task as adult humans is to "eat our shadow"—i.e., integrate it into our whole person and thereby become complete individuals.

I very much think so. But, only when you can cross that invisible line, and embrace it, and be glad that you are who you are. To have that inner peace is key.

I agree with you on some accounts. I believe that crossdressing can help our spiritual development progress but not necessarily. I think it can just as easily arrest our spiritual development as well as help it progress it. For me it has helped on a few accounts. Self-love and self-acceptance, for starters. Also, it has helped me face my fears and be a more courageous person. I also think my integrity has increased because I am not suppressing my shadow. But mostly, it forces me to practice restraint and work for a balance in my life. I have seen people that have let crossdressing hold so much real estate in their lives that it is difficult for them to function in jobs, relationships etc and I find that even though I love crossdressing, it serves me better to have boundaries and limitations.

I think Jung's anima theory has a lot to offer by way of explaining the need to express my feminity

For me, I have become more spiritual as I have matured and have reached a new high since I have been dressing. I think that the maturing process is key to all this, because we eventually learn not to take everything so seriously, ignore that which we can do nothing about and then try our best to do something about that which we may have some control over. In other words, we start to de-clutter our minds in the area of priorities and tend to prioritize those things that mean the most to us and maybe not to someone else. My embracing of crossdressing when I started only 6+ years ago, to me anyway, is a clear sign of my maturity in the sense of focusing on what I want and what I enjoy. Now, I am still immature because I have de-prioritized some things that still need to have a higher priority. Such is life and how each of us approaches and handles it.

Gospel of Thomas (one of the gospels not included in the modern bible) "Not until the male become female and the female male shall ye enter the kingdom of Heaven"


Lao Tzu in the Dao De Ching
Knowing the male, being the female,
Being the course through which flows the World,
One embraces unfailing Love

Ardhanarishvara represents the synthesis of masculine and feminine energies of the universe (Purusha and Prakriti) and illustrates how Shakti, the female principle of God, is inseparable from (or the same as, according to some interpretations) Shiva, the male principle of God.

There are many examples in myth and history but as Vikki says (paraphrasing here) until you can accept it it's not real.


Stella

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Originally Posted by ChristineReid

Secondly, I've read quite a bit of Carl Jung and also other esoteric literature (including Qabalah). Carl Jung refers to the 'anima', the normally unconscious feminine side that all men have (women have a corresponding masculine aspect the 'animus'). Part of Jung's development (a process called 'individuation') is to recognise the anima, bring it to consciousness and then reintegrate it into the personality. This is also an idea reflected in the Qabalah and in alchemy.

I believe that cross-dressing is a reflection of the desire to develop ourselves by bringing forth the anima ...

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Totally agree with Jung, except there are many men who have integrated all aspects of themselves without needing to CDress. Before I go further, you need to know that I'm 110% supportive of my SO who identifies dualgender.

It is during the teenage years that men tend to swing more over to the macho side, especially in front of their peers. They are establishing their sexual roles and also their places in the male pecking order. It's true that some men do stay stuck there for many years into their adulthoods. :p

But, many (most?) men do mature and if they are self-confident they will allow themselves to feel the full-spectrum of human emotion, especially the softer emotions they might have felt were "gay" when they were teenagers. I know this, because I've observed it in my brother and other men that I know, and I'm observing it in my three adult sons.

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Originally Posted by ChristineReid

... - expressing it (her) physically (the physical aspect makes her more real and brings in the emotions) - and then reintegrating her.

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I think it's wonderful that you enjoy the CDing, but I caution against attempts to rationalize your need for cross-gender expression. This may get in the way of full self-acceptance.

... besides, if the reintegration theory as it relates to the CDing is correct, would this mean that CDers eventually no longer need to crossdress after they've become reintegrated? This doesn't seem to be the trend among the members in this forum.


EDIT - However, I've no doubt that the cross-gender expression does feel like a spiritual experience for many CDers, since the crossdressing does cause elevated spirits. :)

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Originally Posted by ninadiva

I agree quite strongly with this idea. I recently stood dressed in a remote place under the stars and acknowledged the spirit world as nina. I have not been struck down by lightning and now feel more at ease with a more complete self.

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Nina - What a lovely and evocative example!

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Originally Posted by Kate's at home

I do continue to sense that somehow this is about finding a (dynamic) balance at a spiritual level, here and now. Ripple effects out?

I do enjoy your energy in the quest for understanding and would encourage you to continue.

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Kate - Nicely put - it is about a dynamic balance. Not quite sure what you meant by ripple effects out... Thanks for your encouragement.

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Originally Posted by Beverley Sims

Stop reading Carl Jeung and watch those other spirits that come out of a bottle or wherever.
Don't overthink and just get on with it.

It is certainly part of our development and we do vary what we do as we get older and wiser?

I will be watching for more thoughtful replies than mine.
Personally I do not know and do go with the flow whithout too much thought.

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Beverley - There's no beating going with the flow (of thought and those spirits...) unfortunately I am a thinker and hence, in the cold light of day, I have to think. I sometimes think it would be nice not to have to though!

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Originally Posted by NicoleScott

So, is a person's spiritual development impaired because he's not a crossdresser?

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Nicole - no - I just think this is one among many, many paths - but one that has not generally been credited as being valid (something I think that is missing).

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Originally Posted by CarlaWestin

Psychology? Philosophy? Religion?

Once I recognized that the only truth is the truth itself and accepted myself for the gender faceted being I am, I've been able to spend more energy and time enjoying life instead of worrying about all of that contrived nonsense.

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Carla - that's wonderful for you - unfortunately I am still a little stuck in the world of contrived nonsense - maybe one day I will be able to free myself from my intellectualising... I think it's a process I have to go through.

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Originally Posted by Dawn cd

I believe this makes a lot of sense, Christine. We become more "spiritual" and authentic as we become aware of our own, hidden, inner reality. Jung also says each of us has a shadow side. For males, this "shadow" includes their anima (female principle). Our task as adult humans is to "eat our shadow"—i.e., integrate it into our whole person and thereby become complete individuals.

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Dawn - nice to see it's not just me who is a bit loopy! I think Jung distinguished the shadow from the anima saying the shadow was easier to bring out and integrate the animas was the most difficult. I think the act of dressing brings it out more effectively (as a physical enactment of a ritual).

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Originally Posted by vikki2020

To have that inner peace is key.

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Vikki - Yes indeed - but very elusive - I think we each have to find our own way.

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Originally Posted by Jill

I agree with you on some accounts. I believe that crossdressing can help our spiritual development progress but not necessarily. I think it can just as easily arrest our spiritual development as well as help it progress it. For me it has helped on a few accounts. Self-love and self-acceptance, for starters. Also, it has helped me face my fears and be a more courageous person. I also think my integrity has increased because I am not suppressing my shadow. But mostly, it forces me to practice restraint and work for a balance in my life. I have seen people that have let crossdressing hold so much real estate in their lives that it is difficult for them to function in jobs, relationships etc and I find that even though I love crossdressing, it serves me better to have boundaries and limitations.

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Jill - you make some excellent points here - I agree - like anything it has to be controlled and not become an obsession - balance in all things.

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Originally Posted by bridget thronton

I think Jung's anima theory has a lot to offer by way of explaining the need to express my feminity

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Bridget - Thanks for your comment here - I have noticed that a lot of CDers are confused - if this helps by giving something of an explanantion then it may be worthwhile.

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Originally Posted by AllieSF

... I think that the maturing process is key to all this, because we eventually learn not to take everything so seriously, ....

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Allie - I agree - there is so much conditioning that we have to let go of that allows us the freedom to be who we are - the maturity you mention.

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Originally Posted by stellatoo

Gospel of Thomas (one of the gospels not included in the modern bible) "Not until the male become female and the female male shall ye enter the kingdom of Heaven"


Lao Tzu in the Dao De Ching
Knowing the male, being the female,
Being the course through which flows the World,
One embraces unfailing Love

Ardhanarishvara represents the synthesis of masculine and feminine energies of the universe (Purusha and Prakriti) and illustrates how Shakti, the female principle of God, is inseparable from (or the same as, according to some interpretations) Shiva, the male principle of God.

There are many examples in myth and history but as Vikki says (paraphrasing here) until you can accept it it's not real.

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Stella - wonderful! thanks

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Originally Posted by ReineD

Totally agree with Jung, except there are many men who have integrated all aspects of themselves without needing to CDress.

I think it's wonderful that you enjoy the CDing, but I caution against attempts to rationalize your need for cross-gender expression. This may get in the way of full self-acceptance.

... besides, if the reintegration theory as it relates to the CDing is correct, would this mean that CDers eventually no longer need to crossdress after they've become reintegrated? This doesn't seem to be the trend among the members in this forum.


EDIT - However, I've no doubt that the cross-gender expression does feel like a spiritual experience for many CDers, since the crossdressing does cause elevated spirits. :)

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Reine - Very interesting thoughts. I agree that cross-dressing is by no means essential for everyone - but it does seem so for many.

I don't necessarily like the idea of rationalising everything - but it seems to be necessary for me (at least for my left-brain side)

I don't think reintegration necessarily means not cross-dressing. I think reintegration means a full acceptance of both masculine and feminine and being able to express either persona but ultimately realising that they are both facets of an integrated whole.

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Originally Posted by ChristineReid

I think reintegration means a full acceptance of both masculine and feminine and being able to express either persona but ultimately realising that they are both facets of an integrated whole.

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Right. My SO is like this ... always the same person internally, no matter how dressed. Hence she identifies dualgender, someone who is always both at the same time.

She did go through a phase years ago where the femme persona was quite separate and distinct from the male, but I think this was just a coping mechanism to help her as she was working through the feelings that perhaps she "shouldn't" be a CDer, or that if anyone should read her as a CDer, then she would be severely judged. But, I think it is natural for CDers to separate themselves like this in the early years, or at least until they feel comfortable going out everywhere in the mainstream dressed. If a male was socialized to believe that it is shameful or somehow wrong to crossdress, it seems logical that he would separate his femme from his male persona, especially if he buries his need to crossdress deep inside with tons of walls erected around it in an attempt to prevent others from guessing what he wants or needs to do.

This is different than an average male learning to move beyond the strict behavioral codes of the teenage years, to mature as a responsible and nurturing adult male. I should think that having children is a greater vehicle for accomplishing this than crossdressing. :)

This is a fascinating read, Christine.

I don't know anything about the Qabalah, but I was particularly interested in the reference to Jung. I'm not an expert, by any means, but my limited understanding was that the anima was wholly unconscious and that when, for example, a man desired a particular woman (and vice-versa), it was because she bore a resemblance to his anima (animus). But the anima is an idealised image and that woman remains an 'ordinary' human being. Therefore, it isn't ever a case of bringing the anima to consciousness because that is impossible (as I understand it, but I stand to be corrected).

However, a man (or woman) might still want to bring the anima (animus) to consciousness, even if that isn't possible. So I agree that cross-dressing could be a reflection of this desire. And it would be nice to think it is part of a process of having a more complete personality. However, if the goal is an impossible one, isn't this reintegration into the personality similarly out of reach?

Dressing is something I've always wanted to do from a very, very early age. It's not a sexual thing for me and it's not a hobby. It's a very profound thing and when I do it I achieve a tremendous calm. I'm interested in exploring the spiritual dimension because I feel that, to understand this desire more, it could be an important part of the story, along with biological and other factors. I don't think there is anything wrong with trying to intellectualise things. Each to his own, as they say. I like to analyse and would like to learn more.

Apologies to anyone if my understanding of Jung is.... err.... flimsy, or downright wrong! Still learning!

I can't describe if my journey has led to a higher spirtual state for me, but I knowthat my caring for others has increased, and I'm at peace as I never have been before.

My logical - technical side says I don't have a spiral side..... wearing feminine clothes doesn't raise my consciousness to a higher state.... just makes me look prettier... plain and simple...

Frankly, I have absolutely no idea why I choose to wear women's clothing and all the accessories (wig, forms, etc). Do I feel there is an inner woman or at least a "gentler" or a lesser masculine side within me? Perhaps. I know I've espoused the concept that there is another person within me, a sister to my male side that strives to "break out' on occasion. But, what are the circumstances for her appearance. It is usually stress related or the relief of stress.

I started dabbling in feminine clothing as a single digit kid without any motivation to emulate a single digit girl. So, "What's up doc?" Doc doesn't know. It's pure rubbish that a male who does not cross dress cannot be a nurturing and kind or whatever feminine qualities you may want to assign to a person without a penis. I have numerous family members, co workers, and acquaintances who are nurturing and express all the perceived qualities of a woman. I know or have associated with many women who are downright disgraces to the human race, and, that's without regard to the absence of a penis.

For myself, I associated my qualities as having been developed by my exposure to certain people around me. Now, there are people around me who made me develop those societal positive attributes because I thought these people are downright disgraces to humanity. I did not want to follow them as a role model, and, some of them were/are women.

I also possess in my maleness qualities society expected of me. I continue to be the person and express the positive qualities that have been unchanged from what I've been told from as early as three years old. I've been able to slip into the role of a great husband, father, and grandfather; role model in society; etc, as well as, performing as an infantryman and all that was required as an infantryman. Being a successful infantryman is not something most women can successfully pull off.

My advice! Stay away from the psycho-babble. Be a peace with yourself by accepting who you are. You get nowhere over thinking why you like to wear a dress.

If I wasn't born a man, I would not have objected to having been born a woman.

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Originally Posted by ChristineReid

I believe that cross-dressing is part of spiritual development I believe that cross-dressing is a reflection of the desire to develop ourselves by bringing forth the anima - expressing it (her) physically (the physical aspect makes her more real and brings in the emotions) - and then reintegrating her. If we then accept this part of us - as a true and worthy aspect of ourselves - we can move towards a more complete and integrated personality.

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My first thought is that you and I have differing opinions about the word “spiritual.” Just by trotting out that nine-letter word, and leaving corporality behind, you’re trying to elevate a seemingly innocent thing like crossdressing into the spirit realm. I suppose, but I would rather place crossdressing, and all sensations obtained from it, in the realm of the senses, and skip the concept of a soul, which is as controversial as MtF crossdressing somehow NOT being gay…

Don’t get me wrong – spirituality is a lovely idea, spawned in beautiful minds, but I have a hard time finding something to hang on to. If this alleged spirit does exist, why does it need to be developed? Surely it’s THERE, already in place, complete in every way, and attaching a label like “anima” to it is unnecessary. I assume we are all integrated beings from the get-go, otherwise this gender-split (or whatever you wish to call it) wouldn’t cause so much undue consternation. SHE is already there. She has to be. It follows that, if I was a woman, HE would be there, n’est ce pas?

A funny thing happened on the way to my integrated personality – I found that I was already integrated, spiritual with a capital “S” (according to accepted precepts), and, no matter what I do, or how I think, or what I call it, I am an incorporated being who happens to like dressing-up. It may be an expression of some sort, or it may not – the jury is out on this one. Meanwhile, any attempt to describe the beautiful feelings one gets whilst crossdressed just defeats the purpose. I guess I’m spiritually developed, or enlightened, as I would prefer to call it, but I don’t believe crossdressing MADE me so…
:straightface:

You aren't the first to see this connection. Jack Molay @Crossdreamers has written quite a bit about the connection between TGism and Jungian psychology. You have to read from the bottom up to get them in order:

http://www.crossdreamers.com/search/label/Jung

In a somewhat connected (at least for me) area, I recently read "The Surrender: An Erotic Memoir" by Toni Bentley where she writes about the spiritual aspects of sexual submission. I really identified with her on that.

"Spiritual" has always been a loaded term in my experience. In general, almost everyone seems to agree that there is such a thing as a "spiritual experience", but very few (if any) people ever seem to agree when you start trying to nail down specifically what that means. To some "spiritual" means very specific, well formed concepts like "animal selves" and "spirit guides", or "the church family", and "elders", etc.

Those sorts of concrete ideas have never really spoken truth to me, and so when people mention them, instinctively my BS detectors start going off. As I've become older and wiser, I've learned that everyone's experience is different, and that when we talk about spirituality we are mostly describing the deepest structures of our own minds ... and that no matter what words or symbols we use to describe them, they are always beautiful.

Some ideas, or "thought experiences" or "awakenings" (or however you want to describe them) transcend our use of symbols and words, they reference the deepest, most fundamental building blocks of who we are. Nearly universally, we all describe that kind of thing as "spiritual" ... and in that context, I can definitely say that crossdressing, and the mindset the activity allows me to achieve ... is to me, profoundly spiritual.

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Originally Posted by NicoleScott

So, is a person's spiritual development impaired because he's not a crossdresser?

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Everyone has to integrate the Yin and Yang of their personality, but we all don't have to use the same methods or techniques. Some have less anima to integrate in the first place. Some, like us I believe, have more. Some need more. This is in many ways an individual journey, and Father God is the only one who can go with us each step of the way.

To answer Nicole's question - no!

For me, I do not consider myself a spiritual person and while I have not read Jung and studied his anima/animus dichotomy, I can relate to the idea.

There are three of me:

• Michael who is this serious, intelligent, arrogant, depressed, lonely, Super A personality that continually looks for a fight (not physical but political, philosophical, metaphysical)
• Mikey who is the prankster and fun to be with who onced hurdled every parking meter on California Street from Montgomery to Bush just to show off to a girl and who joinlty painted "LIONEL" on a train trestle crossing Hwy 101 in Palo Alto in the late '60s.
• Miki, who came into existence 6 months ago and is a pleasant person wanting to make friends, enjoying the company of others and wants to express her feminine side to its max. Miki is very happy when Miki is around.

My goal is merge all of me into Miki as I truly believe that Miki is the better person and the person I like the most.

Some may consider Michael, Mikey and Miki to be spirits - I am fine with that. If the three of me merge and Miki ends up being a good spirit and that adds to whatever/wherever she is, I am really fine with that, also.

We are who we are. Getting to know ourselves is the real key. Getting in touch with all of our feelings, taking ownership of them and taking responsibility for our own actions makes us a viable person. How we proceed after that is entirely up to us any psycho babble notwithstanding.:)

I think that everything in our lives offer opportunities for self-development, for spiritual development. I don't try to figure this out. I feel. I try. I enjoy. I accept. I grow.

This sounds an awful lot like my theory of having a part-female soul, Christine. And my goal is to make use of both halves to make me a better person. (I don't know if that involves "reintegrating" or not. I'd hate to lose that je ne sais quoi that makes Amy "Amy" in the process...)

- Amy

Thank you for your wonderful comments - each one with a different and valid perspective - some thinking it worthwhile to think about and others not. So much food for thought!

I thought having read all the posts I would just summarise the things that struck me.
1. For me this is about finding a way to reconcile my cross-dressing with my spiritual development. Coming from a Christian background I am still hampered with thoughts that cross-dressing is somehow wrong - but now I can see that actually it may be an important stepping stone on my path and something more than just a good feeling.
2. Jung's ideas around the anima and the conjunction of male and female as part of the alchemical process related to individual struck a chord - although I am far from working it through.
3. I don't like the idea of unification into an androgyonous person - I still quite like portraying myself as a man sometimes and as a woman at others.
4. As I have accepted my feminine side more and more I have felt more at peace and whole. Allowing my full self to express in this world feels good.
5. For some people the spiritual path is important (however you may define it) and for others it isn't - fair enough (this post is really for people who are intersted in thinking about it).
6. The link to Jack Molay @Crossdreamers looks brilliant - will go back to read more (thanks LilSissyStevie).
7. I was also thinking that there are some who are troubled by their compulsion to cross-dress and I thought that this may help them come to terms iwth it - as it has for me.

So thanks again everyone for all your comments! :)

Christine, while I don't have anything new to add here, I just want to say thanks for posting this. It's giving me something to really think about.

Just realize that I never said it wasn't part of our spiritual package Hon. I define spiritual as knowing who we are, why we are here and where we are going. Embracing who we are is indeed spiritual development of who we are as a person.:)

My only form of spirituality comes from the bottom of a glass I'm afraid (vodka and orange). :heehee:

I have a very techie background (engineering and computers) and I just see all this theorising over spirituality as just that....theory, but given prominence by many as fact. So not for me I'm afraid. I am who I am, plain and simple.......maybe with the emphasis on simple. :o

Rebecca