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Ok, after reading todays posts by Leigh , Mikell & Carla, this shadow cder needs to know from those with accepting wives : What is it about your wife that has made acceptance possible? What is it about her soul, her heart , her mind , etc . that makes her accepting as oppossed to declaring a DADT or warring existence ?
Melissa,
We probably ought to ask the gg's who are on here too.
THEY would have an even better perspective.
Great question.
Hugs, Connie Marie
Probably the love of her man and the fact that he is still one under the exterior portrayed.
I guard and protect my wife, showing her consideration and respect in everything we do in our lives.
I value her judgment and family values.
She is also my best friend.
We reinforce our relationship by saying it is just the two of us.
It will always be that way through thick and thin. :)
Beverly probably gave one of the better answers but, just as wives are humans with their own characteristics, the reasons for acceptances will be varied. Mine simply understands that it is not a choice and to help both of us, we do joke about it. For example, we are going to supper with some friends. She asked me what I was going to wear. When I looked at her with a raised eyebrow, she broke out laughing, knowing that our friends do not have a clue about Laura and what an interesting evening it would make. The honesty in the relationship goes a long way.
Connie, you are correct . This question is open to any gg that can help educate us. Peace to all , melissa
Melissa, I'll throw this in for my wife: you are what you are.
My wife is accepting because I am open and honest with my dressing. I chose not to hide anything from her. While she remains somewhat apprehensive with my behaviour, by making small changes when she is comfortable time is lifting the apprehension.
First of all an open mind, unrestrained by archaic and narrow minded dogma. Upbringing contributes to this too, but I suspect some people are hard wired to be more flexible and less judgmental. I don't think it's very easy, in fact seldom possible to change the way people reaction to the new, unfamiliar or unconventional. Second, I think the depth and strength of the relationship is important. If it's a real partnership and mutually supportive and each partner has demonstrated that they are willing to accept each other's uniqueness and idiosyncrasies, then gender variations may be easier to accept. And finally, being capable of trusting one another.
Everything Beverly said is right. As for me, I have know clue why she is so accepting. I thank God that she is and I would do anything for her. The one thing that has happened with us is that we have actually grown closer than I ever could have imagined since she found out. Still a lot of work to do on my part to make her feel as secure in our relationship as possible.
My wife says that when we first met - I was out as a crossdresser and her girlfriends were warning her to be wary - she was having fun with me and enjoying my attention and my perspective, so she looked deep into herself to check whether it was troubling to her (versus to anybody else), and she found it was not. That simple.
My wife is open minded, didn't think she would be but she surprised me. I had to tell her
after 15 years of marriage. Couldn't keep it a secret any longer. That was 16 years ago.
Her only comment was "why didn't you tell me sooner"
Her biggest concern still is someone near home seeing and recognizing me in public.
She went out with me in Biloxi MS. We walk through the hotel/casino to get
something to eat.
For my wife is is that we have a strong,loving relationship and that I assured her it has nothing to do with her or our relationship. It is just something I need to do. I first did a lot of on line research before I even started, printed out everything that I felt was applicable to me and then gave the material for my wife to discuss. It started as a limited dadt, but quickly grew into total acceptance, with the understanding that she was not required to participate unless she wanted to. Key is trust, openness, and no secrets.
Only one thing comes to my mind and I'm not speaking for my wife but from me observing my wife. We believe there are three things involved in being a married Christian couple... Don't want to offend any one just my opinion. These are faith, hope and Love. And as Alan Jackson says in his song (straight from the Good Book) the greatest of these are LOVE. My wife accepts me and all my crazy actions because she loves me. I accept her and all her crazy actions because I love her. If we all had this attitude about every one then life would be so simple. Religion, Races of humanity, poor the rich, homeless and etc. then life would be so much more and we would be forgiving of people with peculiarities. That means who would care that we wore a dress or that someone is interested in TS or on and on. Love for all mankind is the answer to our question. It just usually happens that as preachers say spouse should have no greater love than for their spouse. I have found by being the man I was born to and doing my job there first my wife is then very supportive of my CD ing. I'm not a preacher just what I have observed in my 64 plus years of living. True love accepts me, and also true love demands I accept them.
Remember, you have known since 4, 5, 6 (whatever) that you are different. When you tell your wife, she hasn't had the 20, 30, 40 years of coming to terms with it that you have had. Like a steam iron hitting her face as in a Tom and Jerry cartoon. It is tough on her.
Claire x
Everybody is different. All I know is my own story.
My wife and I have been together since 15 and CDing was not any part of my life, at least knowing it as cross dressing, before then. But along the way when it occurred to me to try on women's panties, I told her and then did it. When it occurred to me to put on a bra, I told her and then did it. When it occurred to me to put on women's clothes, I told her and then did it. Everything thing that I have thought that I might want to try, I told her first and then did it second.
Many things she has been fine with, but many things she has not been okay with. Dressing in some women's clothes was fine, dressing fully with wig and makeup, a bit concerning. Dressing at home, she was fine with, going into public, not so much. Doing some things, not a problem; slowly progressing, kind of concerning. Being a cross dresser, okay with; possibly being more than that, frightening.
Openness, honesty, communication, these have all helped. It has generally not been what I would have considered to be easy. Our relationship is the single hardest thing I have ever worked on, but it also the best.
I'm especially lucky in the fact that my wife of ten years is turned on by it. She has her limits though, such as me shaving off my mustache. It's kind of a bummer in that I can't go totally fem in the face, but I am extremely happy and lucky that she is so accepting of everything else. Wives an significant others all have their limits. The trick is to be open minded to those limitations and communication is vital.
The fact that I'm still the man in the family, I can still do all the man things, but she like the compassion and empathy of another girl if she needs that
Hi Melissa,
So I asked my wife the exact same question a few week ago (during one of our weekly chats on all things CDing) . . . Question: "How can you be so understanding as I explore Isha more openly in the world" Response: "Because I married you not Isha and she is only a façade you put on, the real you is still there"
When I asked if she could elaborate on this, she indicated that sure I took 20 plus years to tell her but then again I wasn't out killing people or having an affair and what I did in private was not harming her. She also realized this is not going away and acceptance from her has only helped me to accept who I am and that has made me a better/happier person and in return made her happier.
Hugs
Isha
I'd say a number of things - but the primary thing is that it's all stuff within your spouse:
1. Her comfort with her own gender / sexuality
2. Her views of masculinity / femininity / gender roles
3. If she has some gender variance herself, even a bit, and is comfortable with it, that helps quite a bit.
4. Bisexual women seem to deal with this easier
5. Lack of very dogmatic religious views that declare such behavior as a perversion
6. Her ability to forgive your deception
External stuff like how solid the marriage is, and whether or not you told her up front before marriage also matter, but in my opinion, it's mostly her. (Telling her up front is huge, actually.)
My wife has always said that it's just another part of me, and she loves me. All of me!!!
Asking what makes some women accept their SO and their Cding or other TG related subjects, as apposed to females who don't... Well, it's like trying to explain what a bright, colourful and non tangible rainbow is to a person without sight. You can't!
Agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenniferathome
Though if I had to add one defining personality trait, found in every woman I've known who accepts my CDing (platonic or other), it's the ability to accept people for who they are and the many different pages found between the covers of these books :)
In my case,my wife knew from the start,as we met online which was a major plus point,where she embraced my femme side from then,She has been hurt (physically and mentally) in the past by men Inc her ex husband.She knows I would never hurt her and she has always said I am the same person that she fell in love with,and she loves both sides of me
Sophie
Well, my wife said in this old thread that for her a lot of it may have to do with the fact that she is a very empathetic and compassionate person. She finds it easy to see things from other people’s perspectives, to put herself in their shoes.
So when she first discovered crossdressing, she tried her best to understand. Even though she was initially shocked, she wanted to know more. My wife says if you love someone, why wouldn’t you at least try to understand what makes them tick?
My wife was always a bit more masculine than I was and I was always a bit more feminine than she was. She encouraged me to wear anything I liked as long as she agreed it was stylish. It never mattered whether it was gendered male or female. It just mattered if she thought I looked good in it. When I got very sick a few years ago she suggested and bought for me women's compression clothing to help my blood flow. I always ask her before I buy anything and I always check with her that whatever I'm doing in terms of makeup, clothes, panties, bras, dresses or skirts, she likes. I modify what I do all the time according to what she says looks good. She's the expert, after all. I mean, she's the one who sees me all the time so it's important to me that she thinks that she likes the way I look in a black lace nightie. I only see myself in the mirror when I pass one! But she always knew I was queerer than I would admit and, you know, we're all a lot nicer when we dress a bit. It's so much harder to be a male jerk on a power trip when you're wearing a bra and panties. Probably not impossible if your jerk quotient is really high, but difficult! She tends to minimize my cross dressing but this is really because she just doesn't think it's as big a thing as I sometimes do. I think she's right.
In a word... love.
If we didn't share the deep love that we have she would have been much less accepting. Thanks to that love she was willing to try to understand, allow me space to be me and give it time to see how it went without prejudging.
It's hard to conceive that they "understand." Because how many of us understand? I feel that the understanding is exceptance. The willingness to take you for what and who you are. If the spouce loves you and cares for your needs it makes all the understanding begin. Then you have a lifetime to reason it out, if you or they need a reason. Personally I am simply a CD'er and that is reason enough and my wife and the 2 before had no problems with it as long as we kept it within the realm of reason for us. Everyone is different and may have vastly different perimeters. I have to say I never held it against them for wearing male oriented clothes in or out of the house. But I except that is socially more exceptable, but still the same in the fact it is what they wanted to do, same as me. So in short my spouce understands equality and reason with respect for me. The rest is a non-issue if we are going to have a marriage. Life is to short to live with all the drama and rules that don't affect or restrict who we are.
My wife knew from the start that I like to wear woman clothes.
We made some simple rules, do not embarrass her by going out dressed.
I would never pass, and that was not a problem.
I was completely honest with her, and she understood that my dressing was
just something I liked to do.
I never pushed the envelope to far, just dressed once in a while, like on a weekend.
We both loved each other, and she let me have some personal pleasure.
I always was very thankfully for her understanding, and I was always there
for her in every way.
Rader
Wow, Isha, I wish my sweet wife had that attitude. Melissa, you can't make a spouse understand anything. You can only hope that your relationship, ever how long it has existed, is strong enough to survive all the life situations you'll face, including CDing.
In my case, it's somewhere between DADT, go to hell, and maybe one of these days I'll get used to this. And I'm not sure that's a bad thing on my wife's part. How in the world can a guy in a dress expect a woman to understand all this oftentimes mind-numbing stuff anyway?
Some of the things that I believe make my wife accepting have been covered. I'll just say I think for us these things have helped:
a) Even though I hid this from her for a few years, I came clean about it. We don't hide anything from each other and trust each other.
b) She told me she is bisexual. Some will argue that's irrelevant, but I disagree. I KNOW it had an impact on us. When she's "in the mood" she likes Allison time.
c) Her sister is lesbian and is dating a transwoman. She has spent time around them both and that gave her different perspective.
d) We discussed boundaries and how far I think this will go. We established rules and we follow them.
e) I made sure she noticed her "wife" does a lot for her around the house and in other ways :)
Yes, this and everything else Kim said that followed (post #8).Quote:
Originally Posted by kimdl93
When my first wife found out, we talked and went to counseling. She tried to understand and accept but in the end, she couldn't be married to a CDer.
Although the topic is about accepting spouses, it can be applied to others' acceptance. My father was a good man - smart, fair, responsible, committed to his family, hard worker, generous, etc. etc. When I was caught playing with lipstick at around age 8 or so, he held me down, smearing lipstick on my mouth while verbally humiliating me. Not once did he inquire as to why I did that, or have a calm talk about it. It was just wrong wrong wrong in his eyes. Looking back, I'm surprised that he did not have that "open mind, unrestrained by archaic and narrow minded dogma". But he didn't.
I retreated deep into the closet.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there's something about her. She tends to put others needs before her own. Like she's more open to things. The world doesn't revolve around just her. I'm really fortunate. Though at times we pass like ships in the night, we have a very open communication. We eat dinner(supper) as a family, talk about our day. Sometimes, it's just a post-it note. She accepts me for me, and I in return, open jars for her...
Joni
I think my wife is accepting because she loves me and wants to be with me and I feel the same about her. I know if she could choose she would not want me to be a crossdresser but I am. She did not know when we married and I did not think it would evolve in to a major need. We worked it out so we can both be comfortable with it. Love, friendship is a life of sharing caring accomodating or leaving. We are friends for life a team. But if I said I am done CDing she would probably love regaining closet space, at this point but she would probably ask why as she knows it makes me happy. I do not see me stopping so we carry on a couple sharing life together. Accepting one another and all life brings.
This completely nails it, in my opinion. Excellently put, Paula. Of course, the ideal behaviour from us includes not needing to invoke (6) in the first place...Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulaQ
To smear those precisely enumerated qualities into a more general characterisation, it seems to me that a partner that is emotionally fully adult will usually bring to the table few to no difficulties in dealing with a cross-dressing partner; which admittedly leaves a huge variable - at our end of the partnership... If we've worked out how we tick and can communicate that in a relationship to our emotionally literate partner, then things ought to be set fair for a happy time.
Understanding, or is accepting a better word? One of the main reasons why I am a member here is because my wife does struggle with this. She is struggling to accept. She really is trying to, and has come by her words, farther than she even thought she would. Still, she has a hard time of it all. What I think is keeping her with me is how diligent I am to make sure she comes 1st. I am human, so there have been a few mistakes along this past year, but generally, she sees that she comes 1st and that I do not try to push the agreements. She has told me that if my CDing becomes more important to me than she is, that will be what makes her walk. But I suppose that is the same for anything. I do think there is less of a threshold when it comes to CDing though.
I accept because I love him and want him to be happy. I want him to finally be rid of the guilt and shame that he must have endured through out his life. We have grown closer, but it isn't always easy. I just want him to feel loved, all of him.
I'm sorry, but I can't agree with this, as it is pretty pejorative towards many partners. Your partner mostly can't help how their emotional makeup is composed any more than the CDer can. It is what it is. My wife felt horrible guilt that she wasn't able to accept me. But I've never blamed her - she is who she is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie Oxford
I agree with you Paula. It is more than simply being a full adult that leads to understanding or acceptance. There are so many factors and so many variables on both the partner and the CDer. My wife actually has no ill feeling toward any one person who identifies as trans. She doesn't think they are sick, or gross, perverted etc etc. She does have difficulties of being married to one though. Hetero women are going to generally have difficulties with being with a person who is in the TG spectrum. Some may have more difficulties than others due to those variables and factors.
Obviously any accepting person will need to be open minded. But even then, just being open minded in general is not enough. I am of the opinion that the extent of someone who is in the TG spectrum is of significance. A casual non frequent CDer is easier to accept than a person who is or will undergo transition. Of those who fall on the CD side how they deal with it, what their own expectations are, how patient they are, compromises they may be willing to make, it all plays a big part.
knowledge early on is of tremendous value as a partner will be able to grow into the entire person, and not be shocked months or years later by a revelation. Falling in love with someone and then later on learning that they are not who you thought they were is so terribly difficult. Regardless of what that difference is, that is such a huge barrier to overcome. And when it is CDing, which is such a society taboo, all the more difficult still.
My wife has been very accepting. Recently we had some bumps that I shared about. My wife and I have been married 12 years with both of us having been married before. I think it was important to both of us that we were open minded. We shared liberal social views on sexuality for example. Although this has been difficult my wife was naturally empathetic to my situation.
I also want to say that it is easy to judge other relationships. Many people have said they would be so glad to have an SO as accepting as mine. And I am so grateful! However that does not mean it is easy to work it out. I wish just going out occasionally worked for me. I constantly feel the desire to be a woman. Yet I desperately want to take care of my wife and son. These things are hard to reconcile and I am ding my best. My wife knows that and that means everything to me!
Suzanne
On the opposite side of the coin, just because your spouse doesn't accept your CDing, it doesn't mean people should judge "oh wow, sorry, your marriage must've really sucked!" (This seems to be a somewhat popular judgment here at times.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzanne F
There are also women who can never be understanding for whatever reason. We cannot expect them or force them to accept it. I don't think many women were raised to know that they might up end up with a transgendered spouse. It can't be easy for them either.
Many are fine with us (accepting) but wouldn't want the complications that come with being in a relationship or marriage with us. Sometimes we have to step back and look at it objectively.
Oh... I see this was already mentioned anyways..
Hmm. I inadvertently left out something rather important from that sentence - "in dealing with a cross-dressing partner that treats their needs with careful respect." A CDer that conceals it for years (for example) is bringing trust issues to the table themselves, and a partner that struggles at that point is very reasonable. But when a CDer is upfront about who they are and how they work (and sticks to that), and the two partners agree at the outset parameters that are generous in spirit - then almost by definition any problems that turn up with it later come from the partner not being emotionally fully adult about it.Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulaQ
For me, your list enumerated the particular ways in which a lack of full emotional development can make it hard to accept a CDing partner. Is that an unreasonable conclusion? I very much do appreciate how hard it is for most partners to deal with it - after all, who among us of any gender or background can honestly hold up their hand and say that they are "emotionally fully adult"? We all work at it, but nobody ever completely gets there.