What is best for you

I wonder if sometimes some of the members on here will read certain posts about how wonderful of a time had with the wife, she helps with make up, do manis together. How wonderful the outings always are. how great the family and friends are about it all etc etc.

I myself can get to feeling a little envious. Then, I stop and think about my life in the big picture. Its not all that bad. I have two healthy kids, both smart, one excelling big time. A great wife, a stable job, a lot of good friends. Family times at holidays are always fantastic.

I am not suggesting that anyone not do what they are pondering doing. What steps of progression they desire to make. I do think though that sometimes what we may read may get us thinking or acting ahead of what is really best for us.

Old adages like slow and steady wins the race certainly mean a lot when it comes to gender related issues. Give up certain battles to live to see another day and eventually win....

Believe me when I say that I am not advising to give it all up for the greater good of society and all those whom we know and love. I am just saying, consider 1st what your individual situation is and what is best for it. which ultimately is best for you in the long run.

I do see a lot of selfishness on this board at times when it comes to CDing. And sometimes, hey we do need to be able to do and be what feels best. But, what is so often said on here about the desire to be more womanly.... well, you can start by being a little more selfless, because that is what women tend to do. They think 1st of others before themselves.

So true GM. A true woman will think of friends and family before herself. Loving and giving is what womanhood is all about. We can all do to be more womanly in that respect. Well said my friend.:)

I'm not sure where you are going with this thread, but personally I take the opposite approach in life. I tend to think more of what's best for others, like helping them achieve their goals and ambitions. In turn they help me achieve my goals and ambitions. Does it always work ? no, some people are self centered and very selfish. I try to avoid those, and keep people that are like minded close as friends.

Where I am going with it is a couple of things. 1st, that what we read on here for some may sound great, and maybe one day we may get there... but currently that is not a good course of action to pursue, at least not yet anyway. And that I see a lot of instances where people on here are thinking only of themselves and their interests and desires. Sometimes, what we do and what we are can be a lot for people. And sometimes I see times where people push it in places it just doesn't need to be. Not everyone, but just that it happens on here frequently.

One of the things that are often said to S/O's... its just clothes, it doesn't make me a different person.... Ok, then if it is just clothes, than it should not be that big of a deal to slow it down sometimes, or choose a better time and place.

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Originally Posted by Kate Simmons

A true woman will think of friends and family before herself. Loving and giving is what womanhood is all about. :)

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Come on, Kate, this is NOT true--more urban legend. women come in all shapes, sizes, manners, and ideologies, and to paint them as SAINT JOAN is really not doing them a favor. what happens to the guy whose wife says" get out, you f.... I hate your cross dressing. I seem to recall a number of guys who decided to out themselves and wound up in the gutter, as some predicted. women come in as many flavors as men--there are some absolutely wonderful people of both sexes, but I have met some that would make Al Capone shiver.
I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, I usually agree with many of the things you have to say, but this is just over the top.
just sayin'

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gendermutt

Not everyone, but just that it happens on here frequently.

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It seemed to be very frequent when I joined. The pushing almost seemed relentless. do this, do that, out yourself, nobody cares what you wear, just do it, etc, etc. We were not really CDs because we were in the closet, and we weren't supporting the troops ,and a lot of the folks who were pushing didn't even list the state they lived in much less a picture. It actually seems less now, but then I'm not here that much anymore. Life keeps getting in the way with important issues like Arizona. and the recession and just trying to stay afloat, and trying to keep my knickers from bunchin' up.
oops, my soap box just tipped over.

Some Cd's will wind up losing their wife to CDing regardless of how it is done... but part of what I am getting at is how it is done. Take for instance in the loved ones thread. Currently there is a thread "heartbroken" The GG spouse is looking for help.... She of course is angry, but not just because of the CDing, but of the overall selfish behavior her husband is now acting out in. She may very well leave him, but probably not just because of him dressing in women's clothing.

I applaud you for this awesome reality check! No kidding. I too have a wonderful wife and two great kids (+ job and stable financial situation). Reading your post makes me realize once more how I should be very careful not to screw up everything for the sake of my personal being. I thank you for this! :)

Most CDers, who come later in life, end up losing it all, but really why?
In a lot of cultures
CD = Gay sex = street prositution = Sleaze = Aids = drugs

If I were to tour my city at night, several roads will be full of CD/TS etc prostituting and they tend to do drugs.
On the tv news, they love playing up the sleaze, showing CD/TS in G-strings and nighties pulling tricks, showing needles in gutters in the same segment etc
(bit like how GAY was portrayed in male toilets in the 80's).

For me, going out in public (wife stays home mostly) is about showing the world Cding is not a sleazy activity, and if I encourage others to help change the way the world looks at us, then perhaps more wives will not get all upset about it.

And for those CDers who stay in the closet, fine
Maybe, just maybe, one day, there will be enough of us out to make the world accept you, for yourself.

The Outings the Gays had in the 90's, gave the world another point of view, perhaps our outing in the 10's or 20's or whenever we do it, will do the same.

For those with to much to lose - please stay home

An excellent post, Mutt. I've posted some similar thoughts in the past because I do not believe that people should rush into these things and CD/TG, being out, etc. should most definitely NOT be looked at as competitive activities.

Yet there are some who also may consider me to be one of the worst offenders because I do have a wonderful spouse and a wonderful life. I have a wonderful and supportive mid-20's son who lives nearby and who I am extremely proud of, and lots of great friends who seem to support me.

And I post events that probably almost sound like fiction (they're not, they're true). I post them mostly because I hope that such posts inspire others to fulfill their own desires, to know that CD/TG can be a part of a rich life, and that there is a world beyond club nights and drag shows.

I also frequently cheer on those who are moving into the outside world because I feel that is one way that we as a community support them as they work through difficult choices and decisions.

But I definitely respect those who choose not to venture out and those who make their decisions gradually and carefully. Often, as life stories unfold here on the forum, they are the ones who most deserve respect and admiration.

Hugs,
Persephone.

Good post, Mutt. Can I call you that?
I truly believe, look after the one you love and you'll be looked after (or put yourself not quite at the top of your priorities). We can get a little excited about what's going on in this part of the world, but it is just a part, not the whole. No disrespect to girls who really struggle with identity issues.
I can't believe how good my life is at the moment, and there is nothing I want to do that will end up in me losing that. You definitely have to work out what works in your own situation.
I love your sentiments.

Christen x

Life for me is generally good but I sometimes think some situations and activities on this board are probably stretched out a little.
Is it poetic licence. :)

It's a thoughtful and contemplative OP, gendermutt - it's heartening to know that other folk do think about these things as well (and yes, one of the many nice things about this forum again!)

I too have thought that there is a deep-seated narcissistic and therefore, selfish aspect to parts of what some of us do. It's unfortunate but I think it's also a very human trait. Also fortunately, were it not for selfish and opinionated people we would struggle to have any progress for the right things in the world - it's a tough thing to balance sometimes...

For me, it should be about being a good person first and foremost - whether you're male or female, TG or otherwise, you do the right thing by your family, your nearest and dearest - and if you have some capacity left over, perhaps try to spread a little harmony around, however you can.

Time for tea and biscuits now, I think... and some gentle contemplation.. :)

Katey x

For some reason I've always equated selfishness with little boys. Looking back, maybe it was just me. I've always had hobbies and other interests that competed with my marriage and family time. CDing has turned out to be another one, especially once I got divorced and the desperate compulsion to dress subsided!

Very good points of view! We are all individuals, and should not judge how others choose to live their life, no matter where they are on the gender scale. Some do not have a spouse, SO, family, or a really best friend, to trust, understand, and confide in. The struggle through the day/night alone hoping (their) life will become more positive and acceptable to others can and does become a continuous battle. Again we should not judge, but be thankful for the positive moments in our life.

Time to throw another compliment on the campfire of fellowship. - Good post Gendermutt; useful and well written.

As one that is new to the realization that he is a crossdresser, I went all over the Internet looking for information and advice. What I found was a LOT of stuff that offended me, quite a bit of stuff that was useless to me, and this forum that resonated with me. Here I found a collection of like minded people with varying degrees of development.

I must agree with GM that there seemed to be an unspoken belief that there is a natural progression, that we will all become full time crossdressers eventually. Those that were not already, were merely some place along the path toward that goal. That first impression left me afraid and a little confused. Afraid that I was getting into something that I could not control and would end up ruining my life. Confused because I wish to crossdress but have no interest in full time.

Did that make me an outlier in a group of outliers? Was I about to discover that I was wrong about not wanting to go full time? Would I be a failure if I did not go full time?

I learned later that progression was not absolute and many are happy in their closets, but that is not obvious to the newcomers.

I certainly do not propose a ban on such discussions. I merely suggest that we keep that in mind when we lavish praise on someone that has gone out for the first time, or say things that assume a natural progression to greater involvement.

Best wishes
MsVal

Thank you all for your replies. Feel free to call me whatever you like... GM Ms.mutt, idc, it's all good. A lot of good replies, and good insights. For what its worth, with a brief recap of myself. I am a late comer so to speak. I always had the desire, but never really acted upon it till just a little over a year ago, I began my own journey to set the other half of me free. Now that side, the feminine side wants to go go go.... But the masculine side wants to remain the top dog. My struggles are to find peace with both. And but most importantly, to be able to have my feminine side have its place, while keeping my life as I have built it intact, and of course, maintaining my marriage to my wonderful wife. Not merely maintaining it, but also keeping it strong and healthy. To say that it, along with just having gender issues can be quite the frustration at times.

So, while I read certain threads and posts by other members who have built more freedom with their fem side, and my fem side sure can get envious of this.... and Persephone, there is no offense to what you write. It only shows what is capable with all of this. I offer you my sincere congratulations with what you have and are achieving. The same goes to the many others who have and are doing the same.

I do have a good life. And now, I have found a life partner, a wonderful wife, who while struggling with all of this (who isn't) is accepting of me that I am "different" and still looks to the future which includes me in it.

I have made the choices I have made. None of them included any type of gender variance when making those choices. I built a life and now it has many responsibilities. It also has many continued rewards which I plan to maintain. Oh there are times.... when I wish things were a little different. But then again, I could look back and see a lot of times where I could have chosen a better option, not just with CDing in mind. I strive very hard to strike a balance in life. I have not always been successful, believe me. I still am striving to find that balance, in all of life's issues and challenges, gender issues among them.

I started this thread because there are times where I see where people contemplate or deal with certain CDing and gender issues, and in my opinion, think, was it or is it worth all of the struggle just for certain dress up times? Or other areas in which our fem sides collide with life and its intricate balance. I often wonder, as sometimes I have felt that envy, are they pushing too far, too hard because of what others have been able to accomplish? Sometimes we see the results, when someone attempts to push too far, or too soon. With what they were attempting to progress worth the result?

What should be and what is is not always one in the same. We here know that we are not destroying the fabric of society, and that just by expressing femininity we are not harming others in the process. What is, is that many in society do feel that way. Yes, without brave souls who push the boundaries of acceptance, no gains ever get made, and for those who have and do, I thank you. If I was coming to terms 20 years ago but under the same life situation, I would probably be in the process of divorce, let alone deal with so much more isolation, without sites like this one.

What makes a difference sometimes, is those who push the boundaries have less to lose. And if I were in their situation, I too may be doing what some of them have done and are doing. It all comes down to if the cost is worth it I guess. I have already gained considerably in the last year. Part of me has a freedom it has never experienced, if even partially. For me now, it is best be content with what I have and what I have gained.

I do know that this might sound pollyanish but I do think that if you have a good heart, are authentic, and do your very best to be as kind and loving as you can be to everyone in your life few people will give a rat's squeak whether you prefer to wear a tutu or trousers. Yeah they might think you a little weird but so what? They'll probably and most likely think of you with the same kindness and affection with which you think of them. I do think that CDers spend an inordinate amount of time worrying about whether someone is going to freak out about the way they dress. Guys (or girls if you prefer), please take this to heart: people respond to love, affection, kindness, consideration, respect and generosity. And if you are hanging out with people who don't respond to that and prefer to focus on superficial differences like the way to dress, well, find some people as good hearted as you are and hang out with them. Life is far too short to spend your time with unhappy, grudging, narrow minded, and unkind people. After all, they have each other. They don't have to associate with you and you don't have to associate with them.

Divida, it sounds good, it should be true, but I can tell you in rural communities, it can be quite a different world. When I speak of the choices I have made, that was one of them, living and raising my kids in a small community. It isn't specifically my preference, although it is nice not to hear all the noise, deal with traffic and have my kids grow up in a somewhat safer area and have small classrooms with attentive teachers. There are a lot of positives about it. The negatives would be those who are different, gender variances and yes, you WILL be discriminated against. Hell, guys who drive an S-10 can get razzed for driving a girly truck.... It is not just me, I can handle whatever gets thrown at me if I choose to, but what about my kids? Should they have to face the type of discrimination they will get because of me? It may not be right but they will suffer if I was to become known and go out in this community. My wife would get a lot of issues from others as well. Many would do all they can to have her leave me because of it. And going in, she didn't know about me. Again, it's not just about me here.

So you are saying that if I have a great relationship with my SO and we do things together, things that the average poster on the forum cannot do, I should keep my damn mouth shut and not post about it?

Nope, not what I was saying.

I think we should all take a moment to thank the selfish among us! It is the selfish that advance the cause, those that stop thinking about what others think, and move in a direction that in the end bring forward advancement. Gender rights have gained in California, because a selfish kid wanted to use a bathroom for the gender she identified with and her parents selfishly sued the school, now Transgendered kids are not only free to use the appropriate bathroom, but they can also play on the appropriate sports teams.
Yes we all have obligations we take on in life, but when those choices turn out to be more than you can handle, and keep you trapped into a life that causes you to suffer, then sometimes selfish is necessary.
Your idea of selfish just might be someone else's survival method. I've always be amazed at how much some of our sisters put up with to hold on to a marriage. I see these as some of the lest selfish people I've ever known.
To bad when you have to give up so much of yourself to keep others happy, aren't we good enough to be able to find some of what we work so hard to give others.
Just say'n

After reading this thread, I can honestly say I am happy about where I am as a CD. Although I am in a DADT relationship, she did not divorce me. She truly ignores the issue. I don't push it in her face. When she walks in the house, I am not wearing unwashed bits of makeup and all my clothes are out of sight. While I may be envious of gurls on this forum who have a wife committed to helping them dress, I know mine will never get there. And no amount of prodding by anyone, including forum members, will cause me to jeopardize the situation.

I have intentionally bypassed whatever others may have said. One must weigh the consequences of their actions. That is not limited to cross dressing, but, anything and everything in a marriage. Marriage is an ongoing process of negotiating: what house to buy, where to live, what car to buy, what vacation. I agree there are too many threads in this forum where the advice is to push the envelope. The wife is handed a take it or leave it attitude. I just wish those younger men will consider that cross dressing men are really a rarity, especially those who go fully femme and go out. Frankly, everyone has to do what's best for them. However, do not expect a wife to "just take it or leave it." One may find a wife just "leaves it."

My feelings border on hatred.... that's why I rarely read how great and wonderful peoples friggin accepting spouses are.... I don't need to be reminded what my situation is and how it will never go to a happier place.... I don't want to hear reality....

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Originally Posted by Kate Simmons

So true GM. A true woman will think of friends and family before herself. Loving and giving is what womanhood is all about. We can all do to be more womanly in that respect. Well said my friend.:)

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With all due respect, I find that this only perpetuates gender roles that we are ostensibly fighting against. Men are supposed to be ______, women are supposed to be _______. There are loving and giving men. There are selfish and thoughtless women. Statements like this are what lend substance to constructs that define what we should or should not be, and ultimately, stultify our efforts to live in a more thoughtful fashion. Wouldn't it be more fair to suggest that we all ought to strive to be more loving and giving, regardless of gender?

Tina B, my thread was not a get back in the closet thread, or never come out thread. Not at all. We should be able to have some of what is us. We should be able to have all of what we are. For those on the TG scale that are TS or close to it, yes, they have to deal with not adjusting to a part of who they are, but all of who they are. And for some, they may have to choose to give up the life they started because they can't hold on to it anyway in a good manner. For them and for those in their lives, wives, kids etc etc, they may ultimately have to decide on accepting that their husband or father will no longer be that. And the TS person will have to accept that they started something they can no longer continue and will have to loose it.

For those who are considered CDers, They can and should highly consider individual circumstances when it comes to their wives, kids and other family members. They shouldn't hide who they are, I am not suggesting this. But, can they come up with compromises that allow for their individual expression yet still maintain all of the other aspects of their lives? For the CDer, how important is it all really. And I do think that sometimes, they are led to believe by some of what they see that should be an expectation of the family they have. The CDer comes out, especially after seeing some of the success stories of marriages and family members who are accepting and perhaps participating. The CDer who comes out should not expect that their situation should mirror the best of success stories, especially not in the beginning. Most women simply will never get to a point where they would prefer it, be turned on by it... Many will come to an acceptance of it, and within some reason participate or support it in other ways. So again, push so hard on your individual situation because of what a few select others are doing?? which could further weaken what is going on. Most women simply will never get to that spot. We can be selfish about it and have the take it or leave it attitude, and wind up losing more than we gain, since we are never going to transition or live full time anyway.

I'm lucky in a lot of ways. One of them is that I started CDing at age 55. The day we found Tina we were shocked at how little we knew about the reality of living in two genders. That led to the second lucky thing: I came here knowing nothing!

I was quickly overwhelmed and unbelievably impressed with the wonderful folks on this forum who were going out and about, how they did it, and what the many obstacles were. And Karren, you were one of the people I followed every time I logged on! I'm sorry for your situation and find you awesome at the same time!!!

This feeds into this thread because I never felt pushed or prodded by all the activity. I was here to learn, and there was plenty to learn! My wife and I discussed so many threads here to try to put my own situation into perspective. Using what I've read about here, and keeping a perspective on my lives has made the experience of Tina just fantastic!

GM,

As many are aware here, I have never been a believer in the "shame, shame" you need to come out to the world game. However, I am also a big believer in that we are responsible for our own choices in life and each is required to take stock before acting. If I applied a "just do it because others are" approach in my day job . . . well let's just say I would not be here writing at this moment. We can all provide advice, support, stories (good and bad) but this is from our perspective and what works for each of us will not always work for others. We are all big girls here and each of us has to take responsibility for the choices we make. Jumping to do something because you read about how well it went for others . . . just saying.

I have made choices in my CDing with the full involvement of my wife, family, friends and others around me. Were some of those choices the result of what I read on this site? Yes and I thank those who posted their insight. Did I just go and do it because it sounded like the thing to do? No, I thought about, applied it to my situation and then decided on a course of action.

"Selfish" is a bit of a harsh word to use IMHO. If a CDer has an urge to dress "en femme" and decides to hide that part for the "greater good" and she implodes emotionally at home the end result will most likely be the same . . . strain on the relationship, family, friends, work and potential harm to the individual to those around them. So I don't see those who progress to dressing and sharing that as being selfish. Selfish to me would be my wife saying "I don't mind Isha but when we go out I want boy you" (which she has) and me saying "F&%# that, it is Isha or you can go out by yourself" (which I have not).

Now granted I have not read every post but the ones I have read or written which talk about experiences out and about have never advocated "true selfishness". If I have written such a post, then I truly do apologize to all who have read it. I believe most gals (myself included) post because we had a feel good moment and are looking to share that with others . . . mutual support goes for the good as well as the bad. If we did not share our experiences of going out then what can we share?

The one thing you did say in one of your replies I do not agree with at all and IMHO it almost minimalizes CDing as more of a hobby . . . "For the CDer how important is it really?" . . . Seriously? How many CDers quit, purge then come back . . . that seems pretty important. How many CDers after much agonizing come out to family and friends only to loose them . . . seems pretty important to me.

Yes, by all means if you can find balance in your life by making it work to the best of your ability then do so as that is your choice. However, if some choose not to that is their choice as well. I would never wag my finger at people in the closet and say "come out, come out". In return, I would hope for the same mutual respect.

My two cents.

Hugs

Isha