Im stumped. Help me out with this.

Who here feels the term crossdresser should be gotten rid of? Yeah I know the forum would need a new name but that can be dealt with later.

Ok am I all alone with this.
So if inside I feel that I am more female than male does it really matter what I wear?
Jeans are just jeans, correct? Who is to say honestly if that is a male or female clothing item.
A shirt is a shirt, again who care who wears it.
This is the best example. I was reading forums on running shoes. It clearly states that men can wear womens running shoes if they are a better fit and vice-versa. So what dont I understand.
Are we still living in the dark ages, isnt it time to just let everyone be who they want to be.

You don't have to use the term if it doesn't describe you, but it describes me perfectly. I'm not a "lady in the making" nor more female than male. I'm a typical male with a typical male life (husband, father, typical male interests (sports, friends, activities) and most importantly), a male identity. I just like to crossdress occasionally, making me.....a crossdresser.

In some ways I agree with u, Erica. Maybe the public would understand us better if we went back to the term, "Tranny"?

I could live with that if everyone thot it meant what it means to me!

While there are certain clothing items( jeans, tops& shoes ) that may be gender neutral , the fact that we wear pantyhose , slips , bras , dresses , etc . are all gender exclusive to women. There really is no need for a man to wear a bra. We do so because dressing like women is innate . Erica, I love your premise and wish society had no phobias about our dressing , but reality teaches us that society is not ready to fully accept our dressing . Erica, until then , let's take comfort in our dressing without guilt or shame . Much peace to you ,Mel

Erica you're absolutely right but you're preaching to the converted ! I'm not sure where the changes will happen, maybe through retail, it's a growing market the problem with that is buying on line is killing our person to person contact. Cders need that to gain their confidence and to present a public face, the more they're seen the more accepting it becomes.

That is very philosophical! In other words " Deep man!" Erica I think you are making a very, very good point. Why do we have to classify who we are? When we do we are making our lifestyle stand apart from the norm, we call ourselves CDers and automatically makes us different from all other males, who may even enjoy dresses as well if it wasn't for the stigma. Let's face it, even those guys who claim to have never consider wearing a dress have to wonder what it would be like, and as you know once you try a dress you never go back.

Well, there are people who do see themselves as crossdressers. You might not wish to apply this term to you, but you can't get rid of it for others.

No one here will disagree with your right to dress as you please. The issue is convincing the people who are not part of this community that it's OK for men (or rather individuals whom other people believe are men), to wear women's clothing.

A lot of our members do just that though. They wear women's clothing that can easily be mistaken for men's: sneakers, jeans, polo shirts, etc.

How are things at your workplace? I presume you have a history there as a male? Do they have policies in place for individuals who wish to transition or are they OK with people who wish to present in an androgynous manner if this is your goal?

It is sad that all societies do not accept everyone for their attire. Whatever we as individuals choose to wear should never IMO have any bearing on who we are as a person, or to be classified with a title of "crossdresser". Crossdresser is a term for those whether male or female that choose and prefer to wear attire of the opposite gender. Enjoy.

So if they're 'just jeans' and 'just shirts', why not wear guy jeans and guy shirts? Present as a guy and express you femininity some other way. Problem solved ;)

Erica, People get labeled everyday for whatever reason ranging from dimwit to beauty.

The best way is not to use a label unless its of your own choosing.

I think Erica sounds perfect.

I agree that the term "crossdresser" does not adequately explain many of us. I consider myself to be a "pretend woman" in that I not only crossdress, I try my best to emulate
women, their actions, speech, etc. when I am en femme.

This is a part of the growing theme that the words we use to describe ourselves are simply not going to be universally understood.

Crossdresser, while seemingly a simple term, can come under this problematic situation as well.

In my mind I am bigendered: I'm very comfortable looking at life from either of my genders, and I don't like to mix my genders any more than required for maintaining both of them (e.g. arched eyebrows). So, from that perspective, I'm always crossdressed or never crossdressed, depending on your perspective!

Ok, now my head hurts after that bit of philosophy! Since I'm currently in male mode, maybe I better go put on some heels and see if Tina would like to finish my work this afternoon! :)

I agree to this ...Many here are not cross dressing they are only dressing appropriate to the gender they represent ..Me ?.... Well I am a cross dresser because I sometimes dress opposite of the gender I represent.. Good to see the other end of the spectrum speak out ..

I hear ya! I posted a similar thread a few months ago saying that I didn't like the term crossdresser. I didn't quite have it figured out why at the time but I was on my way to discovering that I am transgendered. Some people enjoy wearing clothing designed for the opposite sex whereas I wear clothing that matches who/what my brain already tells me I am regardless of whether my body agrees or not. On HRT now now though I will eventually show my body who's boss. LOL.

Right, Lucy_Bella. I'm not cross dressing I am representing the gender I feel myself to be and that's a bit changeable. It's not so much of a a moving target that I ever feel myself to be a man though I was so defined most of my life, but I also don't ever feel myself a woman, though I was very happy to discover a way on youtube to get just awesome cleavage this morning.

Really I can't say this enough times. We own our own words. They do not belong to someone else. We can describe ourselves any way we please. A very great deal of the oppression in society derives from other people thinking that they have the way to describe someone else. Erica really never has to describe himself, herself, themselves or itself ( I don't know your preferred pronouns, Erica) any other way than feels appropriate, and that can change, because Erica owns the words and the way Erica feels, like the way all mammals feel, changes from time to time and depends on the environment and their response to it. It really is not so difficult. Just give people the fundamental respect to choose the words they feel describe themselves and accept that everyone has the right to self description.

This really isn't some kind of crazy idea. Obviously if the way I describe myself impinges on the way you describe yourself in a material way, well then we should have a conversation about it. But we just don't have to make assumptions that this person is this or that until they tell us. It is just not important information in dealing with a another person unless there is some transaction going on. For example, a transaction in which you want someone to do something. like buy something, or vote for something, or have sex with you. In which case, ask. If you don't know what gender I am, well just ask, and if I am sufficiently interested to know what gender you are, why I will do the same. Most of the time none of us particularly care that much because most of our relationships are just simple how do you dos, just ordinary transmissions of likes and dislikes, like it sure is a nice day today, or doesn't the weather suck. Most of the time we just want simple affirmations - look there's another human being or another mammal- nice to see you, happy you're not going to attack me and what's more I ain't going to attack you, either! Peace be with you! Gender is a deeper discussion that most of us, most of the time, simply have no interest in.

Carhill. Great one! "Pretend woman" is good.

"part time lady" may be another one. Just call yourself whatever you think fits best. My cats have several names.

I have a good friend who recently had her driver's license changed from "M" to "F". As a contractor, she now crossdresses in jeans and plaid shirt for work. As for me, I am someone who will likely always have "M" on my license, so I kinda like Transgender Lite.

Dee :fairy1:

I'd tend to agree that the term CDr is not well accepted in this current society, at least in my corner of the cornfield.

I'd prefer to call my efforts as being a "near Miss"... It's a great play on words as I never seem to hit the mark dead on...

Renne.....

I am not a Crossdresser but as far as I can see most post are from the crossdressing community so it would be wrong to not include them , besides that this form seems to have done very well with the Title it has and I expect if you were to cut it out it may make some who identify as a cross dresser feel uncomfortable and a lot of wives/so when they first find out about their husbands/so will look for the word Cross dressing which hopefully will send them here .

OK, "Here we go again!", again.

Howz about, oh, I don't know, "Genderists" perhaps?

Or, Ultimate Extreme Ninja Gender Pirates

I'm not fond of the term crossdresser.
I picked a spot on the spectrum of gender identity, and humanity, and went with it. I have no problem wearing a dress and heels (you know....as long as the shoes are comfortable) in public.
I don't want to go out where my feets hurt because of shoes. Other than that, I wanna be recognized as girl.

I would say you're transgendered or androgynous. But some would say that all CDs are TG. Many members of this site make it clear that simply wearing clothes of the oppisite sex isn't enough. Female emulation seems to be the where it's at for many that like to present as female outside of the home.

Still, crossdresser or transvestite covers a wide spectrum from occasional undressing to presenting as female full time. I don't see any reason to do away with those words. Words become obsolete on their own all in good time.

It took me a bit to consider this question. I would agree with you that we are not "crossdressers", but more bi-gender. We are both men and women psychologically and for some, just sexually. Geesh, it's so stupidly complicated. ISHA, help?

I am assuming most everybody on this site is more than a cross dresser. We just don't put on undergarments, a dress, a blouse and leave it at that. We are prone to putting on makeup, jewelry, breast forms, if you like and for those who are follicly challenged, a wig. In my case I'd like to be known as Mademoiselle Ilsa Le Faux Femme! Not because I wear a French maids outfit, but because occasionally I like a French Fry when I'm dressed.:D

Isha says it best in her profile "Labels are for soup cans." I might also add with regards to Mr. Jordan, labels use to be for T Shirts but now even they are tagless and that's all I have to say about that.

Au revoir mes amis,

Ilsa

I do not hate or like the term crossdresser.
I will admit that it describes me the best since I am pure male that enjoys wearing the softer and more colorful clothes associated with what a woman would wear.
The term I have always hated was transvestite, and growing up that was the only term I had ever heard about someone like myself.

We all tend to cling to various terms because, without them, we cannot have a conversation.

I don't feel that "crossdresser" really fits me well, as I think that my feelings go deeper than clothes. "Transsexual" doesn't either since it implies transitioning which I don't contemplate. I prefer to use "transgender" as it is an umbrella term that best describes my in-between situation.

To Muggles, "crossdresser" is that wierd guy whose hobby is dressing in drag. "Transgender" seems to have more serious meaning.

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Originally Posted by Zylia

So if they're 'just jeans' and 'just shirts', why not wear guy jeans and guy shirts? Present as a guy and express you femininity some other way. Problem solved ;)

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With my natural physique its hard to fit guy jeans and shirts. 32w 44h and "b+ " top.

Yes you are correct, but perhaps missing the fundamental point of the matter: society has norms.

Unfortunately, norms are part of participating in society. Waxing philosophically about semantics is interesting, and you are logically correct. But we do not exist in a vacuum.

Well Erica, I'm just a cross dresser so the term works perfectly for me. I suspect it works well for the majority (yet vocal minority) who visit here. In the context of this forum, "cross dresser" is both a description of some and a general catchall. There is no word that will capture the many variants of the members.

If you feel better about it, you can use transgendered for yourself.

Hi Erica, I'm not one for labels, But Crossdresser is probably the least offensive label to me.

We can do just about anything we want if we have the gumption. What we are called is really immaterial. How we feel about ourselves is what it's all about. We have to decide if we want to be our own person or led around by others for the most part.:)

Just call it "The Forum" and make it totally meaningless.

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Originally Posted by Beverley Sims

Just call it "The Forum" and make it totally meaningless.

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And that's fine if that is where you are happy at but that doesn't necessaryl mean everyone else is..To each their own ...BTW this is a support forum and thank you for that,,,

Hi,

Okay what do i call a group of men who are dressed in womens clothes and i know they are men.

I did the photography for the group and is aloud to be shown .
so how do i disccribe those men to my women natal friends whats going on ,

Now when i was over the ditch in Austraila at a do for about 80 , people there were only 3 of us women natal. most of the others were........ and a few trans....... again another word to be looked at.
so do i say these are 90 % all men well my female friends thought they were women the clothes and every thing about them looked like women , and when i said you realise they are in fact all men apart from us 3 and 4 trans people,.they looked at me and said no way they look far better than them selfs,

Of cause with your detail it then would raise a few other issues that would then come up so do you have some idears of what maybe a better word or name to use, as iv said im not a .......so does not apply.

At least my many friends know what i mean when i talk about dresser's or crossdresser's. they know i know quite a few and have met some of my dresser friends,

...noeleena...

I wear jeans, pants, panties and most of my shoes are from the woman's department but present as male. Why, because I find them more comfortable and they fit better. This doesn't make me a crossdresser, it just broadens my choices.
However when I put on makeup, a dress, wig and a bra and forms then I am crossdressing or whatever you want to call it. That is how society sees it. I don't see it as wrong but some others may see it as such.
I think that people are more confused when we dress in an androgynous mode than when we go all out in either mode.

crossdressing is a label. take it or leave Id say. we carry many labels in life, some of them related to a role we play: child. father, sister, employee, student... then comes the ones that define our personality: lazy, creative, smart, friendly.... (endless list) and of course there are those that label how we dress: classic, casual, hip... So we carry as an individual 1000nds of labels with us, which gives a complete image of who we are. Crossdressing happens to be one of your labels. society has decided, at this point in time, what items are clothing for men and what are for women. the fact that you choose to wear the clothes designated to the opposed sex makes you a cross dresser. slap... label on. and I guess from your post casual dresser: slap another label on. That is how we all deal with diversity around us. it is impossible for a human being to give everybody the individuality. IMPOSSIBLE. there is 6billion unique individuals on this planet.

I have no real problem with "crossdresser" because I'm a guy who dresses in what typically would be consider women's clothes and adds things like makeup, wig and breastforms. I present, to the best of my ability, as a woman, and I do that in public at least once a week. In private, a couple more times a week, I wear women's clothes and present as a woman only to a limited extent. Because the clothes feel right? Partly. Because I want to feel like a woman? Partly. Because I'm challenging society's rules? Again, partly.
So, "crossdresser" fits.
If we abolished that term, I like Dee's suggestion of transgender lite.

Sure you can replace the term "crossdresser" with something else. But then some people would begin to dislike the "something else," and then you'd have to replace that with yet something else. Then some people would begin to dislike the "yet something else," and it goes on and on. Why bother? Especially since we already understand one another (mostly)?

I think everyone feels differently about themselves. I have no desire to be a woman full time, but dressing as one and feeling like one gives me a sense of completeness. So if you connect the two, I'm a male who enjoys dressing as a female or I guess you could say crossdresser. I'm not offended by it, but I can see where if a person feels more feminine or in fact feels like a female it would be offensive. If that were me I would call myself transgendered or transexual. My two cents.

I love your thoughts but I think it's not us who get to decide the labels applied. We just do what we do, feel how we feel. It's always going to be someone else who decides what name to call us.
For me, crossdresser is OK. It's what I do, as Jen says, but I do really like Carla's 'Ultimate Extreme Ninja Gender Pirates', aaarrrggh!!

Christen x

I guess to clarify this a little bit, Im not upset with the term, Im just thinking it is time to get rid of it and treat everyone as individuals.

I mean if I have on womens jeans and a cute top, Im still just me right.

If you are at the mall and your S/O says "Look hon there is a crossdresser over there" your reply should be "No thats just Jim from work, he isnt a crossdresser that is just what he likes, besides that sure is a cute skirt he has on"

Im not saying it is totally a bad term but if we treat each other as individuals then in time no one will care how we present. Am I way off base with this?

I'm fine with "crossdresser". It's short and to the point. It's a lot better than "tranny".

I don't get how being a cross-dresser (i.e. a descriptive term) and being an individual are mutually exclusive. You have a gender, clothes have a 'gender' and there's a descriptive term for people who wear clothes made for the opposite gender, namely cross-dresser. You present as 'yourself', but also as a woman while you identify as a guy (as far as I know). You're a cross-dressing individual because you cross-dress based on current cultural norms and values.

Doing away with the gender binary and in effect the gender division (e.g. different clothes for different genders) is a pipe dream, practically nonsensical and defeats the point of cross-dressing. Cross-dressers are a product of the gender binary, not a subversion.

The other day on the Writers Almanac, I read a quote from a philosopher, Ludwig Wittgenstein, who wrote: "The limits of my language are the limits of my mind. All I know is what I have words for." And, "Uttering a word is like striking a note on the keyboard of the imagination

Personally I don't like the use of labels for anything as it brings certain things to peoples minds, so the label of disabled usually brings an image of someone in a wheelchair to mind. so I am against labels anyway.

But with regards to the term crossdress, I feel it brings an image of a guy in drag (much like a pantomime dame) to peoples minds. Also it seems to mainly be used for males dressing in female clothes, yet it is acceptable and no labels as such for a female wearing male clothes. So the term seems old fashioned and a bit sexist.

I am not a transexual in that I don't want to be a woman full time. I was not born in the wrong body. I enjoy being a man. That being said, I love to dress as a woman. When I am dressed that way, I want to be perceived as a woman. I want to be one of the girls. I crossdress so I am a crossdresser. Hard to explain? Yes! However, I do consider myself transgendered.

In Dutch.. we don't have a one-on-one translation of the word "crossdresser", so I just tell my friends I like to express my feminine side and wear clothes/shoes/make-up that make me feel as such. :)

I personally don't have anything against the word "transvestite" or the Dutch "travestiet", but I do see my fellow T's cringe whenever that word is uttered, so I like to keep it pleasant. :p

So yeah,. transgender, transgender, t-girl.. that's what I use describe myself when I want to be bit more accurate.. but "crossdresser" is fine too.

In the grand scheme of things.. the discussion of these words don't mean much to me.

Yes, we could stop using the term, but replace it with what?

It's most basic definition explains, pretty well, what the term means. Wearing clothing normally meant for the opposite gender. (At least from the view of society).

Would you rather say all that, or just say 'crossdresser' ?. A lot easier in my opinion.

People are going to attach their own meanings to the term, no matter what. I don't let it bother me. I know what I am, I am a crossdresser. ;)

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Originally Posted by Taylor Ray

Yes you are correct, but perhaps missing the fundamental point of the matter: society has norms.

Unfortunately, norms are part of participating in society. Waxing philosophically about semantics is interesting, and you are logically correct. But we do not exist in a vacuum.

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I would support Taylor's view and that we are back to waxing and whining like the phases of the Moon... but it is true that others will use the label and the connotation to categorise us collectively and as individuals.

If I get to choose my own label, then bagsy I have "SnazzyDresser"... :p

Katey x