My outing to the casino and using the washroom shouldn't have to be such a problem.

I went out to a casino last Wed night. When I was on the floor walking around waiting for the bar to open up it was such a mixed bunch of emotions from people.... People "men" can look at me with so much hatered, other men/women talk to me as if I'm just another human being enjoying simple conversation and then there's other people that want to take pictures, buy me shots, have drinks, include me with their group of friends lots of laughs and all of us have a real good time! This crowd is mostly women that are out and about with their friends. Its just such a mixture of emotions from both ends of the spectrum..... Hatred vs being liked and accepted.

Anyway to my point, I had to use the washroom after a couple beer so I used the men's washroom as I normally do. It was very crowded with adults and College kids in there and I could tell they didn't like my presence. When I left I heard someone yell out what the F is that. What a bunch of cowards to yell out behind your back....
In my province we don't have a policy on using male/female washrooms like other states so it is left up in the air with no legal direction which one to use. One of my first public outings a couple years ago was to an event put on by the local Imperial Court. They said they would like everyone to use the washrooms with "the gender that they mostly identify with." Of course for me that is male as I only get out a few times a month. I'm not even 50/50. Ever since this event I have done just that unless I have a group of GG's that I go into the washroom altogether with. Some folks on here like to use the women's washroom and treat it like its a milestone to reach a special throne and celebrate that they can actually be in there. I have always felt out of place and uncomfortable trying to do that. If I was TS this wouldn't be an issue at all but I am a hetro male.....
Anyway I know some might think I'm looking for trouble but its not the case. I really feel out of place and until our province changes the laws I will do what I'm doing and hope for the best. What the heck, they can make room for me as I sure am not in there loitering, being an idiot and bothering any of them. I go quickly into a stall, get out quick and wash up and go.
Why the F can't this world live and let live?
Rant done LOL

Launa

You have more guts than i do! I am convinced this thing we do, will always be considered strange, my friend, by most, and hated by some. Many males feel threatened by us.

Use the women's "washroom" and don't give it any further thought...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Launa

They said they would like everyone to use the washrooms with "the gender that they mostly identify with." Of course for me that is male as I only get out a few times a month. I'm not even 50/50.

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From the above, I am not sure whether you present as female with makeup, wig, etc, or do you present 50/50? If the latter then I suspect that your best option is to use a gender neutral toilet such as separate disabled facilities.

If you are presenting female then I disagree with the advice you were given. It isn't about how you see yourself, i.e. as a male who happens to dress, but about how others perceive you. If you present female use the female facilities unless there is a law against it. No trophy will be awarded - just practical common sense and personal safety. Be thankful the men were 'cowards' - the alternative might have been more painful.

When I wore a dress with heels for Halloween I went to the men's restroom a couple of times. I am a dealer runner who delivers title applications to a county tax office for a vehicle dealer. Bear in mind I have hair that hangs lower than my shoulders and I wear a C cup bra for my natural breasts. I also had on eye makeup and lipstick. I DID use a urinal so others would see I was male. The first time I talked to the individual next to me in my deep voice that is a cross between Johnny Cash and Joe Friday of Dragnet. I looked very much like a genetic woman. I had ABSOLUTELY no difficulty using the men's restroom from others. I guess I got a lucky break.

Johanna Anna (John in real life)

I go out 2 times a week and if I am out as Susan I use the ladies room or gender neutral if they have one, when I am out as my male self I use the men’s room. For me I feel this is safer and better for everyone. That being said I don’t look at it as a right, privilege or a goal I have made, it is simply to take care of what I need to do and then I get out. Every once in a while I will get in a conversation with a GG in there and I do feel a little uneasy about that as I don’t like lingering in the bathroom.
I am lucky as where I live we have some good laws. Oregon is that you can use the bathroom with the gender you are presenting, dressed as a woman then the woman’s bathroom. Washington it is the gender you identify as, for me my gender has a wide range from male to female. when I am in my male mode I take on the male gender and when I am Susan I take on the female gender so I guess that would make me bi-gender.
I think anyone dressed as a woman in the woman’s restroom is less of an issue as people are not always that observant and may not notice right away. Someone in a dress with long hair and makeup saws female at a glance and would fit in with being in the female restroom. A dress, long hair and makeup would stand out even at a split second glance in the men’s restroom. Just my thought

Hi Launa;

thought it is not clear of you were dressed em femme at the time, I think perhaps you were. Even here in the states, there is no clear direction on rest room use BUT there are a few things to consider.

In general, you should use the rest room that matches how you are dressed. If you go into a men's room dressed as a woman, that can cause problems, such as the remark you heard.

It is no real milestone to use the other restroom, it just makes sense to draw less attention to yourself based on attire.

Your use of the restroom makes sense. Do what you go in for, wash up and leave. This is true regardless of which one you use. The rest room is not a social setting unless you went in with one or more friends. IF someone questions your right to use the restroom that matches your presentation, there are two ways to handle that. You can protest or you can apologize, leave and find another restroom. Keep in mind there is a law, generally speaking, that can be applied to your use of the restroom IF you choose to protest your right to use that restroom when questioned. If the questioner complains YOU can be ejected from the premises for 'disturbing the peace.' Best advice, apologize and move on.

Luckily I have never been question regarding my use of the ladies room. I did hear a woman comment on my muscular legs as I left one casino restroom. It was a polite and positive comment so I smiled and kept on going.

Hi Launa,

I understand your reticence to use the "women's restroom" and if you feel more comfortable in the "men's" then that is your call. I will point out that Alberta's Human Rights Commission has enshrined protection of Transgender (whole spectrum) in their human rights policy. Now while it does not explicitly state that a "trans" person can use the bathroom of the gender they identify with, there have been challenges in your own court system which have found denial to be discriminatory albeit it related to work environments. In Ontario, we have a similar system . . . it doesn't explicitly say you can but it does not say you can't. I verified with a policing friend of mine and she indicated that when it came to public places (e.g., malls, casinos) if I were to use the bathroom of the gender I present (in this case female) and a complaint is lodged (has never happened), the owner can ask me to cease using the ladies room and I should comply but they will have to make accommodation for me to use the men's (i.e., I would require staff to accompany me and ensure I am not physically or verbally abused). If the police are called I would not be charged for using the bathroom just told to make other arrangements. However, as I said it has never happened.

I provided a link below for you to your human rights commission. You could check with the city police to find out what the policy is if you are so inclined.

http://www.albertahumanrights.ab.ca/...as_grounds.asp

Hugs

Isha

Is this an intended pun?
"Some folks on here like to use the women's washroom and treat it like its a milestone to reach a special throne and celebrate that they can actually be in there."

My dad used to call it "the throne" in jest.

If you use the ladies, be quick about it, with your cell phone totally shut off, batteries out of your camera, not looking through the gaps in the stalls, sitting down, just like you would want someone to do if your wife was in there. Be RESPECTFUL of their feelings!!!!!!!!
I prefer the handicapped or family singe holer myself IF one is available.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BillieAnneJean

If you use the ladies, be quick about it, with your cell phone totally shut off, batteries out of your camera, not looking through the gaps in the stalls, sitting down, just like you would want someone to do if your wife was in there. Be RESPECTFUL of their feelings!!!!!!!!
.

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I surely hope this isn't how you see the transgender community! There has not been one single T bathroom incident in the US...

I've gotta admit this is something that makes me reluctant to go out en femme for very long. I admire those that feel completely at ease walking into the ladies room when out en femme. And going out alone to a casino also takes a lot of courage. I don't even like going out alone in male mode now days!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Michelle (Oz)

From the above, I am not sure whether you present as female with makeup, wig, etc, or do you present 50/50? Be thankful the men were 'cowards' - the alternative might have been more painful.

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When I say I'm not 50/50 it means that I'm only out on the town 3-4 nights a month. I live full time as a man. As far as those men go the alternative could be painful alright its just so easy to yell things out when your in a group or far away from the person.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Isha

Hi Launa,

I understand your reticence to use the "women's restroom" and if you feel more comfortable in the "men's" then that is your call. I will point out that Alberta's Human Rights Commission has enshrined protection of Transgender (whole spectrum) in their human rights policy. Now while it does not explicitly state that a "trans" person can use the bathroom of the gender they identify with, there have been challenges in your own court system which have found denial to be discriminatory albeit it related to work environments. In Ontario, we have a similar system . . . it doesn't explicitly say you can but it does not say you can't. I verified with a policing friend of mine and she indicated that when it came to public places (e.g., malls, casinos) if I were to use the bathroom of the gender I present (in this case female) and a complaint is lodged (has never happened), the owner can ask me to cease using the ladies room and I should comply but they will have to make accommodation for me to use the men's (i.e., I would require staff to accompany me and ensure I am not physically or verbally abused). If the police are called I would not be charged for using the bathroom just told to make other arrangements. However, as I said it has never happened.

I provided a link below for you to your human rights commission. You could check with the city police to find out what the policy is if you are so inclined.

http://www.albertahumanrights.ab.ca/...as_grounds.asp

Hugs

Isha

---

A lot of the laws are somewhat there if you are truly moving in a TG direction such as you are going to be living in some form of TS, starting to make body changes, taking hormones etc that make you identify with the opposite gender etc... I'm not there yet. As far as checking with the local police some of the girls I know said they have called down and it has come to a dead end as I have said. There is no right or wrong and that's why I say there are 2 different scenarios that can happen.

1. Use the ladies and if a problem arises then deal with a whole bunch of drama. Similar to what happened to you at the mall and you didn't even go in there! You were standing outside it and that scene happened if I remember the story right!

2. Use the mens and if a problem arises then I find it might be easier to tell a guy to F-off instead of dealing with all that other drama. Although if its the wrong crowd with tougher guys and things go bad for me the cops might say that I was asking for it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BillieAnneJean

If you use the ladies, be quick about it, with your cell phone totally shut off, batteries out of your camera, not looking through the gaps in the stalls, sitting down, just like you would want someone to do if your wife was in there. Be RESPECTFUL of their feelings!!!!!!!!
I prefer the handicapped or family singe holer myself IF one is available.

---

And this is why I stay away from the womens.

I would be using the female washroom if I was out Being Paige

its just so easy to yell things out when your in a group or far away from the person

This could happen even if your not out dressed. People do this sort of thing for absolutely no reason, especially with a group or a couple of friends, just to make themselves feel superior. They will never say it to your face or if they are alone. They are words, nothing more, you either make an issue out of it or you don't.

When I go out, if I am dressed, I am going to use a women's room or gender neutral restroom. I am not going into the men's room, that's like searching for problems, comments, or conflict. Thankfully I have never had to use a restroom while I am out. I understand your feeling uneasy about it though.

We all like to think the world is changing but the reality is it hasn't much. It's still the same BS you dealt with in high school because that is the mentality level of a lot of people out there. They have been born and bred to think a certain way and by god that is what they are going to do.

I guess you have 3 choices while you are out, use the right restroom as you present or deal with the BS, wait till you get home, or piss yourself. Your not going to change the world and I see no other way to deal with it. For the record though, while they may be a few, I don't think anyone here looks at using the women's room as any golden trophy, bragging rights, or anything along those lines.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ~Joanne~

its just so easy to yell things out when your in a group or far away from the person

When I go out, if I am dressed, I am going to use a women's room or gender neutral restroom. I am not going into the men's room, that's like searching for problems, comments, or conflict. Thankfully I have never had to use a restroom while I am out. I understand your feeling uneasy about it though.

I guess you have 3 choices while you are out, use the right restroom as you present or deal with the BS, wait till you get home, or piss yourself. Your not going to change the world and I see no other way to deal with it. For the record though, while they may be a few, I don't think anyone here looks at using the women's room as any golden trophy, bragging rights, or anything along those lines.

---

If you say piss or crap your pants is an option? Well I guess that could be an option for some folks but I have never considered it to be an option. Using the mens can might be seen as looking for trouble but again its my choice at the end of the day and I will take my chances rather than having women and little girls look up at me as the big CD'er when I go into their personal space. It will be my struggle

U mite need to be careful if there r younger kids in the rest rooms. If you're obviously a male in a dress, as I am, in the Ladies bathroom u run the extremely unlikely chance of running into a nut case assuming the worst about u.

In a men's room there u may encounter some dirty looks or comments. They may assume you're gay, at worst.

However, in adult venues like casinos, etc., I've found women in rest rooms to be far more accepting and curious when there r no kids around then the men in the Men's bathroom.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by BillieAnneJean

If you use the ladies, be quick about it, with your cell phone totally shut off, batteries out of your camera, not looking through the gaps in the stalls, sitting down, just like you would want someone to do if your wife was in there. Be RESPECTFUL of their feelings!!!!!!!!

---

Wow I would wet myself before I got all that done.

Just do what you need and get out. No qualms, no fears. If you are appearing as a woman...use the women's. I even take 15 seconds to fix my hair and check makeup. Odds of you getting into a confrontation in the women's room are far lower than what will happen in the men's as the OP found out

What is the difference in "gender you identify as" and the gender presenting as? I identify as female but mostly present as male.

Good one Mary Lee. It seems the Alberta government figures that you'll only present as a female if you first identify as a female. Walking into the ladies presenting as a male could land one in jail - or worse!

If you really really want to help cover yourself legally speaking... ask them which bathroom you should use. And ask if there are unisex/handicap facilities you can use.

Launa, if they were suggesting you should use a restroom for how you most identify, I would take that to mean how you are PRESENTLY presenting. Otherwise, you run the risk of inviting hateful remarks, or discomfort on the part of other patrons. I believe you my have over thought that statement of theres, or read too far into it. It matters not if you present as male 95% of the month, if you are out in public dressed, I would suggest the womens restroom for your comfort issues. If challenged, you can always suggest you are transgender. Most folks will shy away at that point for fear of inviting a lawsuit or other legal trouble for discrimination. Odds are, no one will challenge you so long as your bathroom behaviors are situational appropriate.

When I am out as Sandra I always use the woman's bathroom, and when I am out as my male self I use the men's room. I think it is really easy for you to get un- welcome responses when you are dressed as a woman and are in the men's room. Imagine going in the woman's bathroom dressed as a man. When in Rome do as the Roman's do!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Launa

If you say piss or crap your pants is an option? Well I guess that could be an option for some folks but I have never considered it to be an option. Using the mens can might be seen as looking for trouble but again its my choice at the end of the day and I will take my chances rather than having women and little girls look up at me as the big CD'er when I go into their personal space. It will be my struggle

---

It is if your not going to go into the women's or men's room because your that conflicted at the time you have to go. I personally wouldn't myself. As many have stated here, if your out dressed and presenting yourself as a woman, you SHOULD use the women's room. Go in, use the toilet, wash your hands, and get out. That is all anyone should do in the restroom. It's not a social club after all.

Obviously you're not close to passing so that leaves you with no place to "go". Many public places now have "family" restrooms and while they aren't really intended for crossdressers, they are lockable and probably a better choice. I've never been to a place that had "Men" "Women" and "Other".

I don't think ther rest of us feel a "thrill" using the women's restroom, it's just more appropriate for those who come closer to passing.

You might have asked a security person if there was a private restroom you could use.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krisi

Obviously you're not close to passing so that leaves you with no place to "go". Many public places now have "family" restrooms and while they aren't really intended for crossdressers, they are lockable and probably a better choice. I've never been to a place that had "Men" "Women" and "Other".

I don't think ther rest of us feel a "thrill" using the women's restroom, it's just more appropriate for those who come closer to passing.

---

It has nothing to do with passing.just exercising your right to pee where you want. UNLESS,there is a specific statute on the municipality's "books",a person is free[in the US] to pee in whatever restroom they choose.Go in and get out and it never is an issue.

Sorry Launa
If your going to dress as a woman you have no business in the mens room!

I don't think people have a legal "right to pee where you want". There are reasons for seperate male and female restrooms and they are supported by law. Crossdressers and transgender people are the exception and may or may not be covered by laws allowing them to choose which restroom to use.

What is not clear in the OP's post is his/her degree of passing and without knowing that, there's no good answer to the question. I think if you are clearly a "dude in a dress" with bald head and a beard, you had better stick to the men's restroom. If you are trying your best to pass as a woman, the woman's room would be a better choice if there is no alternative.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Caden Lane

Launa, if they were suggesting you should use a restroom for how you most identify, I would take that to mean how you are PRESENTLY presenting. It matters not if you present as male 95% of the month

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They actually want us to use the mens if you identify as male. That means if you have a penis, drivers lic, male identity and are out dressing up then you're male.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SANDRA MICHELLE

When in Rome do as the Roman's do!!!!

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I know but I'm not in Rome

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ~Joanne~

Go in, use the toilet, wash your hands, and get out. That is all anyone should do in the restroom. It's not a social club after all.

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This is all I have ever done and nothing more.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krisi

Obviously you're not close to passing so that leaves you with no place to "go". Many public places now have "family" restrooms and while they aren't really intended for crossdressers, they are lockable and probably a better choice. I've never been to a place that had "Men" "Women" and "Other".

I don't think ther rest of us feel a "thrill" using the women's restroom, it's just more appropriate for those who come closer to passing.

You might have asked a security person if there was a private restroom you could use.

---

Yeah, obviously I don't pass just like 90% + of the folks on this forum. And I do have a place to go, its going to be somewhere and I won't be looking around to find a security guard to ask him where. I'm looking to stand on the right side of the law.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bobbimo

Sorry Launa
If your going to dress as a woman you have no business in the mens room!

---

If the law says to go in there then I have all the right business to be using it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Krisi

I don't think people have a legal "right to pee where you want". There are reasons for seperate male and female restrooms and they are supported by law. Crossdressers and transgender people are the exception and may or may not be covered by laws allowing them to choose which restroom to use.

What is not clear in the OP's post is his/her degree of passing and without knowing that, there's no good answer to the question. I think if you are clearly a "dude in a dress" with bald head and a beard, you had better stick to the men's restroom. If you are trying your best to pass as a woman, the woman's room would be a better choice if there is no alternative.

---

I see you mention the word passing quite a bit in your posts. I do the best I can but not too many of us pass unless we are under 30, been on hormones for 4 years and petite. Looking my best as a lady is what I do. I sure as hell won't ever go out wearing a beard.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Launa

Yeah, obviously I don't pass just like 90% + of the folks on this forum. And I do have a place to go, its going to be somewhere and I won't be looking around to find a security guard to ask him where. I'm looking to stand on the right side of the law.



If the law says to go in there then I have all the right business to be using it

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Are you sure there is a law? Or is it something someone told you? I somehow doubt that a progressive place like Canada would have a law like that.

Quote:

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I see you mention the word passing quite a bit in your posts. I do the best I can but not too many of us pass unless we are under 30, been on hormones for 4 years and petite. Looking my best as a lady is what I do. I sure as hell won't ever go out wearing a beard.

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ouch. I think I do well thank you
But that is neither here nor there. Judging you on passabilty is not right. Even the models from VS have days they don't look like models. Before you get too deep into this contact your local LGBT support group and find out EXACTLY what the law says. People cannot in any manner ever GUESS how you identify if you don't say anything. You do your thing, wash up and get out...no frills no extras. That should not be a problem. Security shouldn't really care unless you do something questionable.

What I did find in Wiki (for what it's worth)

Quote:

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Accordingly, discrimination, including harassment, based on real or perceived sexual orientation or HIV/AIDS (and probably transsexuality and possibly transgenderism) is prohibited throughout Canada in private and public sector employment, housing, services provided to the public and publicity.

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I know you don't want to make this a big fight but there have been several cases in Alberta that struck down discrimination of LGBT persons.

Here is the bottom line since you seem to have your mind set on the answer you want. Use whichever restroom you think you need to use. Your fight here with people who have been trying to help bothers me. The answers were given. Take them for what they were worth as presented. Contact your local (or provincial) LGBT group and get the real answer as far as law goes.

Launa, I think most of us though your original post was a request for help with this issue but apparently it was not. You are just arguing with those who are trying to help.

Using the men's restroom dressed as a female (or dressed as a crossdresser) is very likely to cause problems, especially in places where alcohol is being served. You found this out.

Rather than complain and reject all the suggestions that have been offered to you, think about your experience and what you might do to avoid it next time. Read through the suggestions and rather than thinking (and posting) about why they wouldn't work, think about how they might work.

There's a lot of experience here and while not every suggestion is good for you, certainly some are. It's up to you to decide.

In addendum, I would not patronize an establishment that neither took my safety into account, and did not recognize the gender that I'm presently presenting. They want to pretend that gender is a binary, it's simply not. Because while I spend a vast majority of my life as a male, I do not fully identify as male. And if I'm presenting as a female, it's disruptive to me emotionally and physically to force me or anyone else to use a gender specific restroom they are not comfortable using.

If the law says to go in there then I have all the right business to be using it

Quite true, But its the same with walking ascross the street.
You may have the right of way by the law, but once your run over and dead, its a mute point.

If your wearing a dress do not aggravate the situation, use the ladies room.
Bobbi

QUOTE=Lorileah;3664718]Are you sure there is a law? Or is it something someone told you? I somehow doubt that a progressive place like Canada would have a law like that.

Sorry I've been away for a while and haven't found time to respond back. I'll rephrase a couple of things about the law. Its not that there is anything in Canada stopping you from going into the washroom of the opposite sex but its when someone has a problem with it and decides to file a complaint. If this happens then you can or will be charged with either a nuisance, creep, peeping Tom or whatever. However the person making the complaint has to fill out some paperwork with the police etc... So it depends on the person and the cop as how far to push it. A situation happened to a Tgirl in our community who is transitioning and has the legal name changes and all. She was at a large hotel using the womens washroom and some redneck lady confronted her and said you're a man. After some explaining which wasn't good enough the lady demanded to see some ID and then our friend said no I don't have to. They both went to the front desk and they told this ignorant lady that she is making a scene. So this thing does happen.

There is a bill that is in the middle of our federal gov't for approval regarding this issue, I haven't seen anything on it for a while though. It has passed the house of commons but it has to be passed by the senate where there will be a lot more opposition before it becomes law. Experts say that its often hard to make these private bills become laws....In our province there was a lot of opposition to this bill. Here is what it looks like:

Launa


Bathroom Bill - Gender identity laws
C-279 transgender 'bathroom bill' passed by House.
Battle now moves to the Senate.
Published: March 21, 2013

On March 20th, a majority vote in the House of Commons on Bill C-279 brought Canada one step closer to the brave new world of a gender-fluid society where male and female are no longer biological realities, but mere social constructs. Under the proposed legislation, male and female is no longer defined by physical anatomy, but rather, is determined subjectively by an individual’s “inner feelings” and “experiences”. The bill also seeks to change the Criminal Code so that speech critical of the transgender lifestyle/ideology could potentially be classified as “hate speech”.

Bill C-279 passed third reading by a vote of 149 to 137, with NDP, Liberals and the Bloc voting unanimously in support. Although most Conservatives voted against the radical proposed legislation, 17 Conservative MPs including 4 Cabinet Ministers supported it.

Bill C-279 now moves to three readings in the Senate and if passed there, will enshrine in Canada’s laws a radical redefinition of gender, as expressed in the Bill’s definition of “Gender Identity”:

"Gender Identity means, in respect of an individual, the individual’s deeply felt internal and individual experience of gender, which may or may not correspond with the sex that the individual was assigned at birth." (emphasis added)

Please note that the above definition is not restricted to those who’ve had sex-change surgery. The definition is broad enough to apply to cross-dressing men, thus granting them all the special “rights” claimed under the this bill.

Campaign Life Coalition and other pro-family organizations have been lobbying to defeat C-279 for months. We worked to expose the societal harms of this bill which was dubbed ‘the Bathroom Bill’ by critics who understand that it would grant biological males the legal “right” to enter female washrooms and change rooms.



Breaking down the final vote
Compared with the 2nd reading vote of 150 to 132, our lobbying and public education did have a positive effect, moving 8 votes to the NO camp. Some notable, positive changes in the vote included:

MP Michelle Rempel (Calgary Centre-North): Voted NO (had voted YES at 2nd reading). She cited her defection over concerns that the subjective definition of Gender Identity could cause problems in other areas of law, such as exactly who would be “protected” under the hate crimes provision, and how to determine what type of speech can be considered ‘hate speech’.
MP Bernard Valcourt (Madawaska-Restigouche): abstained or was absent; voted YES at 2nd reading
MP Kerry-Lynne Findlay (Delta-Richmond): abstained or was absent; voted YES at 2nd reading
Prime Minister Stephen Harper voted NO. He did not vote at 2nd reading and normally abstains from voting on private members bills.
We thank you, our faithful supporters, for phoning, writing and visiting your MPs over the past several months. Unfortunately, political correctness, emotionally-charged propaganda and a profound lack of vision amongst members of parliament prevailed.

The 17 Conservatives whose vote put this bill over the top were:

Chris Alexander (Ajax-Pickering)
John Baird (Ottawa West–Nepean)
Michael Chong (Wellington-Halton Hills)
John Duncan (Vancouver Island North)
Laurie Hawn ( Edmonton Centre)
Jim Flaherty (Whitby-Oshawa)
Shelly Glover (Saint Boniface)
Gerald Keddy (South Shore-St Margaret)
Kelly Leitch (Simcoe-Grey)
Cathy McLeod (Kamloops- Thompson-Cariboo)
James Moore (Port Moody-Westwood-Port Coquitlam)
Deepak Obhrai (Calgary East)
Erin O’Toole (Durham)
Lisa Raitt (Halton)
Bernard Trottier (Etobicoke-Lakeshore)
David Wilks (Kootenay-Columbia)
Terence Young (Oakville)


This vote was also our first opportunity to see how the 2 Conservatives who recently won by-elections would vote on life and family issues. MP Joan Crockatt (Calgary Centre) voted NO. Unfortunately, MP Erin O’Toole (Durham), who describes himself as a “practicing Catholic”, voted YES.

It is also notable that 21 MPs were absent or abstained from the vote, and while we do not know if it would have made a difference had they participated, it is sad that MPs would miss a vote on proposed legislation that would so profoundly alter societal understanding of human anthropology.

To see a complete listing of how MPs voted, click here.



Lobbying efforts move to the Senate
Now that Bill C-279 has passed in the House of Commons, it will have 3 readings in the Senate, and if passed there, will become law.

CLC believes that the Senate is more hostile to pro-life, pro-family views as compared with the lower House. Admittedly therefore, convincing Canada’s Senators to vote against the proposed legislation will require greater effort. However, citizens must follow the democratic process through its conclusion and try to stop the bill. Each province has a number of Senators who represent the people of the province. Please contact the Senators for your province.

Here's a listing of all Senators by province:

Alberta Northwest Territories Prince Edward Island
British Columbia Nova Scotia Quebec
Manitoba Nunavut Saskatchewan
New Brunswick Ontario Yukon
Newfoundland & Labrador



A diversity of talking points
Thus far, most of the arguments against Bill C-279 have quite reasonably focused on the privacy and security rights of women in public washrooms, and the expectation of higher rates of bathroom attacks by sexual predators who may pose as cross-dressers. These are legitimate concerns and should continue to be mentioned. However, now that the bathroom/privacy argument has received fairly broad media coverage and has possibly been heard by many senators, perhaps it is necessary to start educating about the many other adverse effects of passing Bill C-279. Some of these include:

1. The law is a teacher. As such, the definition of gender identity being enshrined in law will send the message to all society that being male or female depends on how you feel at any particular moment, and can change if your “feelings” change.

2. The moral authority granted to Gender Identity theory by the force of law, will mean that schools across Canada will be compelled to teach kids that their gender is not necessarily connected to their physical anatomy.

3. Militant transgender-activists will use the amended Human Rights Act and Criminal Code provisions against “hate speech” as a sword to attack Christian businesses, charities and churches. The latter will come under pressure to violate their religious convictions or else face ruinous legal fees.

4. Will cause undue economic hardships for business and government

5. Cooperates with mental illness, thus harming people with Gender Identity Disorder

6. Taxpayers will eventually be forced to pay for sex-change surgeries

To study these negative societal effects in further detail, visit our analysis page.



Let’s keep fighting to win!
Please do not give up this battle. The stakes are too high. Please start to respectfully lobby and educate the Senators. Remember – being rude will have the opposite effect than what we desire. A measured moderate tone is necessary to be effective.

Please also ask Prime Minister Stephen Harper to apply whatever influence he can on Conservative Senators, who are the majority, to vote against C-279. CLC’s National Organizer, Mary Ellen Douglas, has noted that the Prime Minister publicly urged his caucus to vote against Stephen Woodworth’s common sense Motion M-312 , and yet, has remained silent on the controversial Bathroom Bill. That said, we are thankful he at least voted against it.

Related 'Gender Identity laws' Pages

I am showing my geographical bias/prejudice, but I'm guessing that Alberta Province is not exactly full of blase' New York City types? In Manhattan, you can be a green Martian wearing a mini-skirt cocktails dress, use the urinal in the men's lavatory, and pee neon purple urine and nobody blinks. They've seen it all before.

Yes, a lot of folks, NOT ALL can be ultra conservative in the province of Alberta.

I guess I picked the wrong place to live!LOL

I too am one who uses the women's washroom exclusively when dressed. Launa, thanks for your detailed synopsis of the "bathroom bill". So far, I have never had a problem. I do find however, that older ladies mostly are the ones that get a stick in their butts for whatever reasons. Such as the case with a member here some time ago for just using a women's dressing room! Well, keep fighting the good fight and good luck.