I mean no offence, with all due respect. I am just curious.
Why can they not blend with ordinary people?
Do westerners assault/murder CD's when they blend with ordinary people without discretion?
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I mean no offence, with all due respect. I am just curious.
Why can they not blend with ordinary people?
Do westerners assault/murder CD's when they blend with ordinary people without discretion?
Can't answer for "most". I am a CDer who is fully out in the real world here in Australia and have many friends. I don't live in fear of assault or murder.
No we do not typically get assaulted or murdered, it is just not a social norm to our society so most feel uncomfortable going out in public.
The reason I wouldn't tell all of my friends is that I feel they would look/act/treat me differently and it would ruin the relationships.
As for the general public I'm a bit shy and reserved so the thought of being stared at is very off putting. People in general these days are a lot more liberal thinking than they used to be but there are still individuals and groups who's judgement would keep me indoors away from them, I was bullied as a child so I don't do confrontation well unless it's a fight and that just wouldn't solve anything.
The key word of all of this is fear, some of it through probability and some of it through over thinking but I plan to face those fears in a few weeks with a trip to an lgbt bar.
It's natural to want to stick to one's own. It's not a good thing in my opinion, but it happens in every demographic to an extent. I guess being more CD specific, there's people out there who don't understand crossdressing and may even feel threatened by it, perhaps because it challenges their sexuality. Some people find it easier just to be around people with the same interest/lifestyle/whatever because they know these people will understand and accept them, rather than risk coming across someone who's very against it, which is a shame as most "normal" people are lovely and it's not right to tar everyone with the same brush. I'm not saying I agree with the statement your title makes, but I'd imagine it's something you see in all cultures and subcultures and whatever else.
Does that mean.....In AU, can CD's do their business with disguise?! Can they teach people, do a business in game company branch, develop programs with girls clothes?Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelle (Oz)
Good answers already for you...
Western society for the past couple hundred years has had very rigid gender roles - CD and TG folk can be seen as challenging those roles, even though all we are trying to do is express an image and presentation that feels right to us and allows us to be who we are and happy... but not everyone in society can either deal with or accept that idea - most will leave us alone; a very small minority will act aggressively towards us, but these will also likely be people who would offer unprovoked violence towards other vulnerable people and minorities.
I don't think people seclude themselves because of fear of assault - it is more likely fear of ridicule of themselves or embarrassment for their families and loved ones, sometimes an impact on their job or career may also be an issue. In some ways we are like others who deliberately push themselves to the periphery of society - punks, hippies, mods, goths, etc. - all making voluntary statements of being different; and those who are involuntarily different - ethnic minorities, disabled people.. and us. But some of us at least have a choice about how and where we decide to express our feminine aspect - some go out; some feel more comfortable at home. Others amongst our community do not have as much of a choice, and they are deserving of our empathy and support. :)
Katey x
Shame, fear, guilt. Most of us go through all those things, but unfortunately, we don't always get through them, or at least some of them.
Because society will not accept us or let us blend in and socialise.
We tend to be ostracised.
There are many reasons.
If you believe that men and women are equal, then why are women paid less for the same job ?
If women are "less" then men, why would a man degrade himself (to look like a woman) ; and should he not be ostracized for that ?
Consider Isha's experience. If you are someone who "needs" to prove their superiority, who will you attack, someone perceived to be stronger or someone perceived to be weaker ?
I'm sure there are more issues, these are the first to come to mind.
Diane
All great answers, also consider many of us were raised one gender and are " young " in
the other.
Only for me because of the fears of my SO, and I take those into account in my actions. Being an optimist I tend to under-estimate threats. There are many threads on the forum revealing the dangers to body, life, income, family connections, friendships, club memberships. It is unwise to under-estimate. However, people are normally open to GRADUAL shifts, not shocks. A successful coming-out would pace a gradual perception shift of those around, until the final unveiling is treated almost without notice. It is possible, just needs careful planning and attention.
I am a closet dresser. Not a TS. I enjoy the freedom and excitement of dressing however I like in private, worry free.
I'm invariably uncomfortable out dressed in vanilla venues.
I'm uncomfortable dressing to blend. I often hate how I look.
I can't pass, period. I'm uncomfortable being seen as a man in a dress.
It's difficult to chat with anyone unless you're willing to talk about u and your dressing over and over again! That would include friends if they knew and I dressed around.
Then, there's their resentment and my guilt----
I'm ordinary, I just like wearing a dress.
Seriously though, I enjoy being with like minded people, but I also enjoy being out in regular society and just being me. In respect to family and others that are important to me I do usually dress a way from home, but that is also slowly changing. So far no bad experiences, but I also try to keep an eye out for situations which may be dangerous, just like any other person male or female.
Westerners don't as a rule assault or murder CDs/TSs (although there are isolated incidents), but people who crossdress here are on the fringe of society (many are still closeted because of this) and they are not universally understood and accepted ... even though most people, who encounter those who are out in public, are polite and will generally not make any negative comments. The marginalization of CDs/TSs is true not just in western culture but everywhere in the world, except perhaps Thailand. But even in Thailand, it is difficult for TSs to change their gender markers from male to female.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimonogirl
The two most populated countries in the World are China and India. Here are articles that touch on the cultural acceptance of those who engage in cross-gender expression:
China | India
I should think the worst place for CDs/TSs is in the Middle East, with Latin America not too far behind. And I've no idea what it's like on the African continent.
Your other question about working openly dressed as a woman … can't answer about Australia but in North America it depends on the field. I'd say there are only a few fields where there seems to be open acceptance (the Arts and the beauty industries), but it is mostly closed in other business fields and in education. I think if you work for the state or federal government there are policies in place to protect transitioned transsexuals, but non TSs would not be allowed to dress. Also, it is my impression that people who do work in girls' clothes either own their own businesses, or they work remotely from home (programming for example).
just takes some getting use to.....i think. As i live my day to day life in my neighborhood, people don't see me as a shock, the cross dressing is overlooked and which becomes NORMAL. evreytime im out shopping, the people that wont say anything NEGATIVE there not just being polite, in my experiences....they actually find the WOW factor and good conversations generate quickly
Women dressing in what were once considered men's clothes, is accepted as normal now. Gays and lesbians have struggled, and still struggle some, but are now accepted for the most part, BUT... men wearing what are still considered women's clothes:dresses, skirts, bras, hosiery, high heels pumps, womens sandals, wigs, lipstick, makeup, fem inine tops, and coats, this is still for the most part, not accepted, barely tolerated, considered gay, frowned upon. largely yet. The stigma, shame and gulit feelings are very strong for some, especially being out all alone.
To my knowledge there is no gang of people constantly scanning for and looking for CDers so they can do them harm. Using wisdom and insight when going out en femme has always been to a CDer's best advantage.:)
I think a lot of us just an inferiority COMPLEX...I just get out and about totally differently while dressed as female then i normally do as MALE....just get out, act accordingly and all will be FINE and as always ALWAYS use CAUTION regardless, if GAY BI STRAIGHT ETC ETC A BLT... (BLT) LMAO :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Alice Torn
Women dressing in "men's" clothes is not the same thing. They are not trying to pass as men.
We are (or at least many of us) try to pass or blend in as women. I accept that there are members who do wear skirts and dresses and still present as male. Either way it is still not the norm but it is getting easier especially among the younger generations.
I do much of daily business femme e.g. banking, shopping, optometrist and the like.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimonogirl
If you are asking whether I can do my income earning business femme then my answer, for the reasons given by many here, is that I don't. Sadly, I would expect that my income earning potential would be reduced. I am fortunate that my face to face contact with clients is very limited throughout a year.
Then there are those of us who are introverts by nature, so avoiding others is already second-nature. There is satisfaction in being happy on your own.
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Originally Posted by Michaelasfun
ABSOLUTLEY TRUE :) as we are out TRUE SELVES......WE HAVE REAL FRIENDS :) HECK WITH THE IDIOTS
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Originally Posted by Michaelasfun
and in TODAYS WORLD....ALL PEOPLE just want to be able to go out and feel SAFE If any of us follows the NEWS latley, we all hope just to come back from the BARBER SHOP SAFE....etc etcQuote:
Originally Posted by Kate Simmons
Because 'ordinary people' do not want to blend with us. They think we have cooties.
I ditto the statement about being an introvert. Being a card carrying member of that club.
I think when it comes to crossdressers.com.......alot of people live in paranoia, guilt, shame, seclusion and secrecy....I get that.....but on the same token....those who go out, dress accordingly, have confidence, and can socialy adapt to situations have no problem going out in public. MOST of those people, with a few exceptions are NOT on this forum so IMO the forum is one sided that way. The fear of being hurt is always present, no mater how you are presenting...IMO it is what and how you deal with it BEFORE you step out the front door that seperates you, or secludes you in a closet. I see the same transgender murders as everyone else, they never stop me from living or going out, but will always keep me aware of my surroundings. It is really split across the board....some people live in a closet...others know you only live once....I get both sides, and have seen and observed both sides....and when dressed in a vanilla enviorment I have never gotten more than a curious look....I am ok with that ...the more you step out, the more you see it's not that bad out there and the more confidence you gain . My new thing is to push the vanilla boundry without doing anything stupid like going to hooters on a monday night footbal night.....no issues yet......yet being the keyword but at least I put on my big girl panties and step out. You only live once....as far as being introverted....I am as introverted as they come....but THATS to the vanilla world....and they dont matter to me,,,,,they shouldnt to you either . Who cares about them.
The reason many stay closeted is very simple. It is socially unacceptable in western civilization for men to wear women's clothes. There has been progress made on this, but there are a number of problems:
1. Some locales allow discrimination against trans*. That means you could lose your job or have trouble renting an apartment if it is widely known you dress.
2. Many times, friends, spouses, SO's aren't accepting of CDing.
3. There is, unfortunately quite a bit of violence against trans*. 8 trans women, at least, have been killed so far in the US so far this year, and one of our own members was assaulted recently. The odds are, you won't encounter violence, but there are some extremely transphobic men who will have absolutely no problem doing bodily harm to you should you have the misfortune of encountering them.
Where I live, I can go out fully (or even partly) dressed with no problems, and I do,though not as frequently as I used to just because I have other things to do. It is becoming increasingly difficult to justify the additional time to look good in public - I do not wear make up at home, or a wig. There is no fear in going out and I love interacting with women when I do - and most of them know I am a man and are relaxed about it - but few of them know the man as a man.
I work in a sector where I know with certainty that I would be OK at work wearing womenswear. I do not feel I am a woman and acting like one with colleagues would just be weird so it would only ever be LOOKING like a woman.
So if I can do all that, why don't I? I can see no benefit. I get as much from cross-dressing as I need or even want without this. I also like women viewing me as masculine. I prefer the company of women and enjoy the mild flirting and that usually stops when you put on a dress. But the main reason is that I have a certain status because of what I contribute to society and that is what I want to be remembered for, not to be remembered as the guy in the dress.
It is not fear. It is preference.
It took me a LONG TIME to just step out on the OTHER SIDE of town little by little, gas station stops in my home town on my way home, now i go to my local PUBS :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Adriana Moretti
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Originally Posted by Adriana Moretti
very well SAID SUSAN :) yes..., we contribute to SOCIETY :) everyone likes a FUN POSITIVE PERSON :) when im out as a GUY i hold the door for women when im out as JENN men hold the door for me and my guy mode sometimes kicks in and i fight over the DOOR let me hold the door for you, with a smile, then i chuckle a little....OOHHHH (to my self) i forgot for a second im in girl mode and men hold the door for WOMEN :)Quote:
Originally Posted by susan54
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Originally Posted by Adriana Moretti
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Originally Posted by susan54
IM NOT GAY but even if trANS WOMEN GO ON DATES WITH MEN AND don't tell the man AND IF HE KISSES THE TRANS WOMAN AND then finds out its actually a man....THIS IS HOW MOST OF THE violence against us may happen ITS UNFORTUNATE, for fome of us that are attracted to a MAN Im attracted to FEMALES ONLY, but i don't have my picture on an LESBIAN DATING SITE....the point being is this......,we have to be carefull not to MIS LEAD when it comes to the dating SCEENQuote:
Originally Posted by PaulaQ
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Originally Posted by susan54
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Originally Posted by PaulaQ
i NEVER VENTURE OUT TO NEW BARS ALONE....i stay in the neighborhooh where people HAVE MY BAQCK i usually just go out mainly in the day time, i stick to where im KNOWNQuote:
Originally Posted by Adriana Moretti
I worded it poorly in my first post. I should not have said, that womaen can wear what were considered men's clothes, and it is accepted. I would have been better, to write, women can pretty much wear anything they want, and it is accepted, but, there is still an edginess, and stigma, when a man wears clothes designed for women, with the majority of people in western societies.