Thoughts my SO wanted me to share with you...

The GG in my life (she refers to herself as my insignificant other, I call her my wife) is not on this site but we share information from this site as one way to connect over/in-spite of this part of my life. She has made some observations she’d like for me to share with you all and I agree that I want to share them with you. Please understand that my wife is a very patient and understanding person. While we struggle greatly, it is not for her lack of trying to understand this part of me. :battingeyelashes::battingeyelashes:

“Many of the stories on the CD site are about ‘the time my GG went along’ with things. Maybe the time she let them dress up at home and watch a movie together. Or maybe the time she actually went out in public with them, or better yet, went on a trip to somewhere ‘safe’ like Las Vegas and they went out on the Strip together and enjoyed dinner and a show.

And almost every time, the overwhelming responses are: Oh you’ve got a good one there…do something nice for her!

REALLY! THAT’s when they should “do something nice for her”? Because she (gave in, gave up, let down her standards, set aside her beliefs, tried to make sense of something beyond her ‘normal’) did something they wanted her to do … did something to find a place of significance for herself in their world?

Now, they might read that last paragraph in a tone of anger…it was written (and said in my head) with tone of disbelief, a tone of compassion that they don’t really understand her.

I can only speak for myself but I do think many of the ISO’s or SO’s will agree…we don’t want y’alls pity recognition for letting you have your time. We want and need, because we do have the natural GG hormones, your acceptance of us…when we…DON’T…accept the ‘other woman in our relationship’. We need that special ‘gift’ when you are not thinking about ‘her’. We need you to make us want to be with you when you are in guy mode.

So, please, speaking as a GG that has had this forced into my life for over 30 years, when someone writes one of those “WOW! I wish that was ME!” stories…don’t pick that time to tell the TG person to do something nice for their ‘wonderful SO’… Remember this…as a general rule (meaning MOST of the time) your SO is wonderful ALL the time or she isn’t wonderful at all.

My final thought to all of your friends online…Be faithful to the one you are married to. Cheating is cheating weather it’s with a TG or a GG. Your wife wants your heart just like you want hers. Cherish her daily, when she’s accepting and when she’s not. She needs to know she is more important than ‘what’s her name’ in your closet.

So if their SO hasn’t given them that ‘perfect’ evening in a long time, or ever, NOW is the time for them to start showing her how much they love her and how special she is to them. They need to go do something nice for her…now!

IF you post this on the site (and you have my permission to do so) thank them for letting me drop by. Every person is a person of worth. I’m sure you’ll will let me know the responses…whether they support me or rip me apart…if you are in the latter category, please ask them to share this with their SO and get her thoughts. She might appreciate it more than a gift." :battingeyelashes::battingeyelashes:

Yes Leigh your SO is right and this applies to everyone not just these type situations.

Very well put. However, I try to give my SO many things that she appreciates and she also does that to me. So, we have a great relationship and that what it's about. For example she likes DQ blizzards. I may pull in and get her one and she really appreciates it. It might be done as a surprise.

i am so far a rookie in this journey I am not qualified to comment on much....

My wife likes her waist and feet massaged after a hard day's work, and some evenings, two massages are necessary, an hour or two apart. I do it without fail, and without complaining, even though I have arthritis in my fingers and it hurts sometimes. And then I do "little piggies" with her toes because she loves it. That was one cultural icon she never had growing up in the Philippines. She learned about it from seeing the Geico commercials where the piggy goes "whee whee" all the way home, and asked me to explain it to her. She has loved it ever since. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g7RZGHX1qCY

@LeighR
Please thank your SO on my behalf for taking time to share her views. Much appreciated! She has a good point and I can see that my SO can feel this way sometimes. So it is a good tip and reminder.

Leigh, on some level, I see your wife's point although I do detect an element of Mars/Venus going on here in terms of the different ways males and females might look at the same situation through their particular lenses.

That said, I wonder what your wife's response would be if one were to substitute for the term "crossdresser" the words "alcoholic", "womanizer", "porn addict", "drug user", "wife beater", "verbal abuser", "control freak", "couch potato", "gambler", "compulsive liar", "hoarder", "sports addict" or the million and one other negative behaviors exhibited by "real" men, or does she think that there a special place in H*ll for the likes of us because our needs and behaviors are uniquely perverse the way most of the world still seems to view us?

Is being - say? - a "golf widow" somehow easier to bear, results in less of a sense of abandonment, and is less corrosive to a relationship than having a crossdressing husband or SO whose idea of the occasional "me" time consists of getting dolled up "en femme" as opposed to swinging a golf club on a driving range or going out drinking with "the boys" while the wife or SO is free to pursue her own interests at the same time?

Would treating her nicely without the ulterior motives she alludes to somehow make up for all those character flaws exhibited by that breed of non-crossdresser, or is the bar set that much higher for us because of the special nature of our "issues"?

Loving and cherishing a partner work both ways, and the last I heard, "for better or for worse" was still part of most marriage vows. Is having a crossdressing spouse or SO therefore a particularly heavy cross for your wife and like-minded woman to bear in her estimation, compared with the other scenarios that I have outlined? And more to the point, is she so perfect and beyond reproach that maybe - just maybe - she also brought some baggage into the marriage or has her own traits or behaviors that might grate on you equally, but that you have somehow managed to overlook or come to terms with yourself?

A relationship like marriage is fundamentally a series of negotiations and compromises and no one partner has the right to either place themselves on a pedestal or else sit in judgement of the other's peccadilloes in order for it to be successful.

I like to spoil my wife regularly
However when she goes out of her comfort zone for me, I like to show my gratitude.
Sometimes when I go the extra mile for her, she sometimes gives me an extra reward.

I suppose it's like when your kids do "extra" chores at home - do you not reward that type of behaviour or do you just take it for granted?

Leslie, I think your reply was wright on target, my thoughts exactly. Marshalynn

Thank your wife for asking you to share her thoughts with us.

I would argue that in a healthy relationship this whole point is moot.

I am *not* detracting from what your wife's saying, I think it's just better said from another angle

When we do nice things for our SO, it shouldn't be as a reward for things they've done for us. It shouldn't be done with the expectation that it will "butter them up" and therefore we will reap some benefit later.

It should be done because we cherish the happiness of our SO, no more, no less.

Our loving SO's should be the center of our world. End of story. Mine is. :battingeyelashes::)

Leigh,
Please thank your wife. It's difficult when there is not acceptance, the ISO makes that statement.
We make the wow statement because we know what a big deal it can be to accept our uniqueness.

Yes, Leigh, by all means thank your wife (no, she is not your "insignificant other") for sharing this, and expressing much of what we should be thinking about. Those wives and GF's who put up with us and support us are truly special people, and we need to treat them that way.

Leigh,

Thank your wife for her thought provoking comments. I appreciate the mental kick in the butt. I do not express my appreciation to my wife, for my wife, as often as I should. That said, I wonder if your wife views her birthday gift, Valentine card or Mother's day dinner out in the same way as a special act on our part in response to a special act on her part? The fact of the matter is, it is just human nature to be encouraged to do nice things when special occasions bring the thoughts and feeling that drift in the background of our consciousness to the forefront.

Now, if you don't ever celebrate your wife's birthday or thank her for a well prepared dinner or indulge her with a box of top notch chocolates for no particular reason at all, sending her flowers after a CD concession or participation on her part isn't going to fly very well.

Stephanie

Leigh,

First of all, tell your wife I said hello and send blessings her way.

Now that IS an interesting perspective. I don't think it is wrong to show your gratitude for acceptance, in fact in a way, not doing so may be construed as ungrateful or selfish. On the other hand, insincere gratitude could also be seen as manipulative. Conditioning your spouse with a carrot as it were. Also buying your wife flowers when you screw up can also seem insincere. In fact it is so trite that it is part of every other stand up routine.

Yes, spouses SHOULD be appreciated every day of the week. It goes both ways. But since we are human, it is easy to fail. One thing I would recommend is treating your wife how she wants to be treated, not how you think you would like to be treated in the same situation. What is her language of love? Are presents even a good idea. Or does she thrive on acts of service, affirmations, touch? It's not black and white. What works for one couple is not the same as another couple. Just be as sincere and selfless as possible.

Leigh, thank you wife for wanting to share her perspective, but I think Leslie makes excellent points. The way your statements are written, it makes it appear that we are not normally nice or wonderful, but the SO is. I think I am normally nice and wonderful and generous and caring and loving, yet in response to all that, I get DADT and IDWTSI or even discuss it. She allows it only because I give her no choice other than divorce. Which she has asked for 5 times and still has not happened. We just sent $70,000 remodeling house to her upmost desires, and for that I get my stash attacked and left in disarray - because the mailman delivered a package to the house she thought was for Ellen - it was a toilet seat.

If I spent thousands getting a macho convertible or boat and lavishing attention on it, or spent thousands on season football tickets, she would be happier. So the argument that it is money or attention does not wash - it is the fact she can't bear the social embarrassment that still exists to be with a crossdresser.

I would love to share this wth her, but when I asked her to even read some of the stuff on the site, that was first time she asked for divorce. She does not want to learn.

Ellen

I think I know what your wife is communicating. At least this is my interpretation of it. Rather it be a tit for tat reward system, they do something for our gender variance, we then (and mostly then) do something nice for them. What they do for us they do out of love. They are not doing something out of their comfort zone or whatever way it could be described to look for something in return. By showing our partners our love not just when they go the extra mile or 10 with our gender issues, but just the everyday stuff. The out of the blue let's go to your favorite restaurant. Not related to how the other day or night they went the extra 20 miles for our gender issue.

The point is well taken, but I think unnecessarily hostile to be honest.

We trade pleasentries on this forum for the most part (i.e. "your new sweater looks fabulous!" ... that means I like your new sweater and thanks for posting a pic of it to share, not that I literally think it's so fabulous, you must have stolen it from the lost tomb of Libarace") :rofl:

In a similar way, we sometimes read accounts of SO's engaging in amazing random acts of acceptance or support. Going out to diner/show/vacation/whatever dressed, or buying us special gifts that tell.us we are extraordinarily accepted by an extraordinary partner.

In these cases, what should we say? I get that "you have an amazing SO, do something nice for her", can come off a little patronizing, but I seriously doubt that's ever the intent. The intent is to express that the SO is indeed amazing, while at the same time congratulating the member on such an awesome experience".

Saying "your SO is special and you should do something special for her" doesn't come with an implied "but just this once because she did something nice for you" - what kind of awful person would I have to be for that to be true? Moreover, why does your wife think I'm that kind of awful person ??!

Thank your wife for sharing, Leigh. She is a fine lady. I have never had a wife , nor really dated much since i started dressing, but, have been rejected , and told to stop dressing by some, who say it is sick, and perversion, and sin. I believe there are many women who want to control and change the man they date or marry, just as men can be. Every GG is differnt. Religious ones are usually condemning of CDing. It is a rare gg, a very rare bird woman , who will tolerate it, and even rarer bird, who accepts it in a man.

Very much appreciate the view from Leigh's wife. Lots of good points in there and something to consider carefully in our own relationships. There is so much more to a marriage than just our CD'ing. Lets not loose track of that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LeighR

The GG in my life (she refers to herself as my insignificant other, I call her my wife) is not on this site but we share information from this site as one way to connect over/in-spite of this part of my life. She has made some observations she’d like for me to share with you all and I agree that I want to share them with you. Please understand that my wife is a very patient and understanding person. While we struggle greatly, it is not for her lack of trying to understand this part of me. :battingeyelashes::battingeyelashes:


So, please, speaking as a GG that has had this forced into my life for over 30 years,

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Is this what she considers "trying to understand"?
If she feels this has been forced on her then something is amiss. Besides, the vast majority of us didn't ask to be this way. We didn't write a letter to Santa one Christmas and ask him to make us feel like we needed to be feminine and dress the part. This wasn't a birthday wish for me at the age of 6. For all the guilt and shame and all the years of hiding this certainly wouldn't have been high on my list of wishes, but here I am.
After 6 decades I still don't know why I'm this way, but I've accepted that this is part of me and something I've embraced.

My wife is extremely understanding. We go everywhere together and have even taken a "girls only" vacation together. I don't take her for granted, I don't reward her for "allowing" me to do this. I appreciate her for all her qualities and this is only a small part of the whole.

Cheryl, if a woman marries a guy, who then tells after marriage, they are indeed being forced on it. They are forced to now make a choice between acceptance or leaving the marriage. I feel I understand quite well what Leigh's wife is communicating here. Love your wife unconditionally. Love her just the same dressed or not, or whether or not she is doing something for the CDing aspects. THAT will make a wife feel best about the marriage. It is easy to love the heck out of someone when they are doing things for us. Loving them just as much when they are taking time for themselves, or not having a great day or whatever is going the extra mile.

Cheryl, perhaps your wife is just one of those who is a rare bird, and has no real problems with gender variance. And who knows, maybe she doesn't get the difficulty many women have with it. Many do though. It isn't all just from social conditioning or closed mindedness. (although that too) In many cases it is just a matter of wiring. Nothing you did special, no extra effort to accept, it might just be your wife's wiring as opposed to many other women who have much more difficulty with it.

Cheryl I think what my wife is saying in having this forced on her is more about me going beyond some boundaries that she really did not want me doing, i.e. Going out in my local area, or going out with friends I've found or even just wearing my panties 24/7.
For her when I made my very first reveal over 30 years ago I told her I had worn panties before but that was about it. Back then even I had no idea how much more I wanted and I however knew I wanted more but I surpresed it like so many have.
Then I just could not do that anymore I finally began buying my own clothes and it's been growing stronger since.
I think that's how she feels in that I've forced things on her without truly ackowledgeing her feelings and just being plane selfish

Leigh, I think too is that when we 1st begin opening up, we often have a lot of self discovery which follows. That too like what your wife has described is a way of being forced. For those of us who "didn't know" how far or how much at the time, they are being forced to deal with our self discovery. To watch it unfold, and not really have much of anything they can do but to watch and see where it goes, hoping perhaps that it does not go to places they cannot follow.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gendermutt

Love your wife unconditionally. Love her just the same dressed or not, or whether or not she is doing something for the CDing aspects. THAT will make a wife feel best about the marriage.

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Now change the pronoun
Love your CROSSDRESSING HUSBAND unconditionally. Love HIM just the same dressed or not, or whether or not HE is doing something for the CDing aspects. THAT will make a HUSBAND feel best about the marriage.

If what Gendermutt wrote is what your wife wants, then should we not all expect the same, but change the person?

And I can also understand that both partners grow and self-discover as they reach life milestones. I think as my kids began to leave the nest, we both started to think more about ourselves over them, and we each moved in a different direction, which casued increased friction in our relationship. I moved to more experimenting in CDing and she wanted future planning and stability, which my changes put at risk since she has the usual fears and refused to learn.

Hugs, Ellen

For the record - I essentially agree with the OP. I do nice things for my wife regardless. Which is what I think spouses should do for each other.

Therefore, I also agree with this add on discussion about fair play and turnaround. Thus I think ClosetEd hit the nail on the head.

For the add on, I think what the OP's wife is saying is already pretty much a given for those wives or partners who ARE giving their TG partners the unconditional love. Now, taking a woman's view on what ClosetEd has further stated-
Her wife shifted to retirement mode after the kids were gone, and CE shifted to more CDing. So CE's wife's usual fears are kinda being played out a bit. Also, from a woman's point of view. CE's CDing is taking second place, above her wife. The kids came 1st, which somewhat quelled the CDing. Then, when the kids were gone, the CDing became more. In her eyes, she sees CDing as the second choice, and her the third. That may or may not be true, but it does give the appearance of it being true.

While I don't read every thread, I've been here a pretty long time. And the threads where I've seen people suggest that someone do something special for their GG SO, were ones where the CD'r was complaining about his SO. Because those of us without a female mate, read in almost shock, how could he possibly be complaining? Doesn't he realize how incredibly lucky he is that his SO tolerates him at all? So many of us have been divorced, even blackmailed over this, kept from our children, outed to other people, when we read about someone complaining about some stupid minor annoyance we can't believe our eyes. So we come back with something, trying to get them to realize that even though their SO is perhaps unfair or perhaps intolerant of some little thing, that's just it: They're little things. She's still with you. STFU and be nice to her for heaven's sake! Try to remember that you being a crossdresser is well, 99% likely a huge deal for her to incorporate into her life. That's when we chime in and tell him to do something special for her, because he's forgetting what he has.

As far as being nice every day? That's what we're supposed to be to our SO. It's supposed to be a given. If it isn't, then you're not doing it right.

I have always and will always take care of my wife regardless of how far she accepts this. We do dates, I massage her, listen to her , clean the house etc...that is part of marriage. I hope one day she accept even more than she always has, and she has already done allot, but whatever she does is fine at this point...I love her.

I came out to my wife while we were still dating. She accepted and supported my cross dressing for the 40 years that we were married. For all that time, it was a private matter between the two of us. Since her passing, two years ago, I've become much more open about my cross dressing with others, which includes being on this forum.

Hi Leigh,

My wife is still farther out on the negative on this. IDWTEK{ I don't want to even know} But reading all this gives me an idea.

The fact that your wife tried to articulate some of her feelings as advice is a huge step and IMO should be rewarded with some space and thanks and an offer to expand on each word so you really understand her. That is her primary desire- you know her and care for her. Heck that's most people's primary desire. Anyway, we are all just proxies for you here, she wants to know what you feel- she wants to know that you feel she is the most important thing in your life.

I think it could be useful to say, "You are the most important person in my life, and everything about being in our personal relationship is super important. We have conflicts over things, not over who we are as people- we've picked each other because we know we are good people and we want to be central to each other.

Crossdressing, and the color of our house, or our choice of church, or whatever, are things. Conflicts over things are unavoidable, but we are not in conflict over ourselves as people committed to each other.

We have conflicts that are easy, and things that are hard, but commitment is what powers agreeable resolutions, and no one can ever have a long term marriage type relationship without separating conflicts over things from not being in conflict over our committment to each other."

Hope this sounds good- I am going to do it tomorrow and will let everyone know how it goes.