What choices do I really have?

In the last year I came out to my wife about wanting to crossdress. She’s really struggled with it, and has only agreed to underwear and tights (in the winter), and reluctantly me shaving my legs recently. A week or two ago I painted her toe nails one night and I really wanted to do my own, so when I was alone I found a neutral color and did. I showed her and she didn’t freak out as much as I thought she would. But a few days later I wanted to try a new color I had bought and her tolerance cracked. That night she basically said she never wanted any of this and maybe we should consider getting a divorce. She told me that I had been getting too casual about it and basically said I can do anything I want, but she doesn’t want to know about it or see it. I can’t change in front of her or show her anything and she’s had a few times where she’s cried about this and said she wishes it were different.

So, a bit of time has passed, I put away everything, the hair is growing back on my legs, I’m wearing men’s underwear and longjohns when it’s been really cold, and the only thing femme that has touched my body is the deodorant I recently bought that works really well and smells so much better than my “manly” musky deodorant.

So here’s where I want some advice. I feel like I only have a few options:

1) force this genie back in its bottle and try not to explode from the repressive feelings (what I’m essentially trying now)
2) dress, but only if I know she’ll never see me, that means no polish, no evidence
3) get divorced, and be separated from my best friend and woman I love, and not be with my kids all the time
4) hope that somehow she’ll change the way she feels and just bide my time
5) ?

Maybe I’m seeing this all wrong. I don’t want to not do this, I feel this is part of who I am, but I’m not ready to walk away from what is otherwise a great relationship. Not to mention the damage this will do to my kids.

Keep talking and let her know how import she and your family are to you - but part of the conversation may need to be the need to dress is not likely to ever go away - perhaps that may mean dadt

Keep this in mind its not all about you.
You have kids to consider and a family to keep together.

From her reaction I suspect a rigid binary upbringing, probably with strong religious underpinings, and what you've presented her with is something that is totally outside her comfort level, verging on horrific. She's worried about all the usual things: losing the man she loves and married; losing the father of her children; fear of riddicule; fear of losing the respect and friendship of "friends"; being shunned by her (and probablry your" extended family; and so forth.

As many here will tell you, repressing it in yourself will not work long term. The womanly feelings and need for self expression will want to get out! My only advice is to be true to your whole self and don't sacrifice who you are in favor of who others want you to be.

Rhonda

Too bad the fifth option can’t be to turn back time and reveal your desires before marriage and kids. Just my opinion, but keep communication open, hopefully some useful education would help, and don’t sneak around. You are now in “damage control” mode. She is correct that she didn’t ask for this and now is in a position where she maybe feels trapped. Keep in mind that any further acceptance/tolerance may take a while.

Hi Anne,

Tracii makes a very valid point. It is one that I for one always have to think about in my own situation.

A very important thing for you is that you have somewhere safe and friendly here to ask your questions out loud that again I have found for me is very important.

So you have already found a limit to what your wife is willing to tolerate at the moment and at very least it has allowed you to see the limited boundaries you have.

It's important you listen to what she has told you. You can do what you like but she doesn't want to know about it but don't get to casual about it.

She is right when she said she never wanted any of this, she probably didn't (like my wife) but it has so your at the junction you are now.

That said the major hurdle is jumped. She knows and you opened up to her. Does she have anyone to speak with about it? She might not want to but as in a recent post I said I didn't really give my wife a choice as I didn't want to just pass my burden onto her and therefore said I trusted her to talk to a close friend/relative if she chose to so that it wasn't now her secret to deal with on her own. This could have worked badly on my part as the 'trusted' person may have had a negative view on it also but in my case it was neutral and therefore my wife not only didn't have to burden the secret but had someone to talk to about it if she felt she couldn't speak to me.

I don't underdress or really cross the gender boundary when I'm the male me. I just like to have the opportunity to become Tammy and when that time has passed I become male me again.

I'm still everything I always was to her. I just have my own thing, that I would love to share, but am never going to force it.

Ultimately there is not a magic answer from one person's relationship to another's but unless you intend to fully transition (you don't mention it I'm aware) then it's about finding a balance that satisfies you and at the same time keeps both the love of your life and family as the unit you are.

If she and they are what you say they are to you (I have no reason to doubt it) then if ever the conversations allow then remind her of that and reassure her it's the case.

Sometimes it's about give and take and if you can explain why it would be positive to allow some take she maybe less inclined to use the D word.

If you could make her 10% happier everyday of the year by making subtle adjustments to daily life for a few moments for you to do your thing within her boundaries it maybe enough to satisfy you until things become easier to talk about.

I'm sure most of the SO's who find themselves in this situation are mostly scared of loosing what they thought they had in us. Not that they may ever see it this way but they are actually getting more of us.

I wish you the best and assure you your not alone. Sadly there are others who will never even get the opportunity to talk to anyone else about it using forums like these who's personal lives and relationships will never get the chance to work as they have nowhere to turn.

Not sure any of that even made sense but sometimes it's just nice to hear from others in similar situations.

Tammy :<3:

This is the cleft stick that all we cross dressers are caught in sooner or later.

I don't have any insightful advice to give to you but your option 1 will only work for a short while. You will feel repressed and chances are your frustration will emerge as anger and resentment. That would not be good for any relationship and it will not be good for your mental health either. Someone said that this seems all about you. Of course it is not but it is in large part about you.

If you can find a therapist who could help you and your wife discuss this I would strongly urge you to try that. Your wife probably does not know what she it dealing with and is frightened and that may be driving her response.

I wish you all best wishes in this difficult time.

My late wife wasn't pleased when she first found out I was a crossdresser. But her research and thought resulted in acceptance and support. She came to realize many of the things she found most desirable about me were reflections of my feminine side.

So my advise is to not just talk the talk, but walk the walk. That doesn't mean show up in a dress but continue being the loving supportive partner in your marriage and family. I don't suggest you do any of this in a confrontational way, it's not an in-your-face kind of path I suggest. Through your love and devotion to the family you can demonstrate that your attraction to the feminine can be a positive in the relationship, not something that makes it shallow but things that make it deeper and richer. It doesn't have to be public or shared with the children, just supported.

Of course that means you need to better understand yourself and what drives you. We know we enjoy the experience, but it's often perceived as being a physical thing only, or a fantasy with no relationship to our reality. And there is truth in that, but there is more to it as well. When the topic comes up in the future you will probably do much better when you have concrete examples of how your CDing is not just about you, but about how you relate to the positive values of family and the relationship.

Continue being the loving partner and proud supportive parent while understanding it's unlikely that this drive in your life will not go away. Give her the chance to discover, as my wife did, that it makes you a better person, not a stranger.

Anne -- I don't think your problem is lack of choices... ;) A problem may be lack of a clear goal to work toward. Your wife has cried and wished things were different and so will you, frankly, before this is settled. If your goal is to preserve the marriage, then you have to gently work toward getting her to understand your situation and accept this part of you. So a modified #4? Don't hope that it will happen "somehow" but work to make it happen; to educate her (and yourself) about this new fact in your life. It wouldn't be wrong to see a therapist to help you understand who you are so you can more correctly explain yourself to her. If she won't move on this, then you're both headed to option #3 and it won't be pleasant for either of you.

My suggestion for Option 5: Learn the stories of couples who have made this trip before you and see if you can find stories that resonate with the two of you -- models you can use to guide you. Laura Finney Boylen is a good source (She's Not There, Stuck In the Middle With You.) Try searching "transgender couples" in an Amazon search of their Books database -- you might see something that appeals to you (don't search "All" or you'll get overwhelmed with t-shirts and junk.)

Because only one of you is (currently) motivated to move along this path, you'll have to go slow and be supportive and encouraging to your partner. Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Rhonda Darling

From her reaction I suspect a rigid binary upbringing, probably with strong religious underpinings, and what you've presented her with is something that is totally outside her comfort level, verging on horrific. She's worried about all the usual things: losing the man she loves and married; losing the father of her children; fear of riddicule; fear of losing the respect and friendship of "friends"; being shunned by her (and probablry your" extended family; and so forth.


Rhonda

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Wow...for a minute there, I thought you were describing my wife and situation. I wish it were different :sad:

I kind of disagree with some of what traciiG said. No, it's not all about you BUT......your wife wants it to be all about her. You have feelings too. Somewhere there has to be a middle ground. If both of you aren't willing to meet somewhere in the middle, a divorce may be the only way to deal with this. Divorces can be ugly but they don't have to be. People get divorced all the time for one reason or another but it's probably better than being totally unhappy and frustrated. I wish you only the best in this matter.

I would have to agree with Tracii, family first especially if children are involved. I think its a very normal reaction by your wife. She listens to her friends talk about there husbands and all she thinks about is mine is a girl. The need to dress or expressive your feminine side will never go away, unfortunately into the closet we go. Best of luck to you Anne.

"She listens to her friends talk about their husbands and all she thinks about is mine is a girl. The need to dress or expressive your feminine side will never go away."

Well said. And there you have it. So put things back in the box and let things settle down. It's hard for others to accept the concept of duality. It's just not in the social plan to be fully male and also express female expression and adventure.
I would hope your wife is not so closed minded to not try to educate herself about what is truly going on. At best, DADT is a good mutually respectful situation.

hello Anne,
my advice is to take little steps, slowly.
only you and you family can find the answer and that answer will change over time as your circumstances change.
luv J

2-4 may be options. 1 is not. If 1 is what you choose, you need to find an outlet or you will be miserable, or even explode. The best option is probably a therapist.

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Originally Posted by Tracii G

its not all about you.
You have kids to consider

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I'd also suggest that kids survive divorce. Yes it hurts, but if they know they are loved - and I'm sure yours do - they will learn to adjust and cope. Can you be an effective parent if you're miserable and repressed?

How about therapy? If you can find a good couples therapist who also has experience with gender issues, they may be able to get your wife to see things in a new light, or at least find some kind of compromise that works for you both.

Anne, when I started to read you post, I thought Gees did I write my situation here and forgot that I did that? Had to scroll back up and make sure it was not me. Over the years, my wife has brought up the D word in our battles/conversations about my crossdressing. She hates the whole thing and I feel badly that I have put her in this situation. In some small ways she has accepted a tiny part of this, but not much. I remain ever hopeful and I work pretty hard at making our marriage work otherwise. So at this point I am hanging on to option 4 and working at it slowly and surely. Perhaps involving a therapist in the future might assist that effort. We shall see.

Good luck to you. I feel your pain.

That's incredibly stressful Traci. I'm sorry to hear it. I think I'd get POTSD if I had to go through that over a long period and I'm not being flippant with the term. My g/friends have generally been either totally OK with it or somewhat neutral, so I haven't had to go through that sort of trauma. In addition, my urges to dress come and go and the level to which I want to dress varies a lot. I can be set off by ads for lingerie, pretty tops and jammies in the weekly flyers and just want to shop and shop. However, that's a bit off-topic. I have no idea what your ideal solution is, Traci.

My last g/friend not only was cool with my cross-dressing but also traded undies with me, went shopping for '****ty' little creations (is one allowed to use the S-word, 'sl&^t^y in here?)
and even encouraged me to dress all the way.With her I was blessed. However, she passed away last year and so I have absolutely no one to talk with about CD-ing.

Again, sorry to hear your travails and I regret not having any idea how to help you

Carole Edwina

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I was afraid to mention that - particularly not knowing whether there are children and, if so, what age/s. However, that's what I was thinking, Diane.

Carole

Anne, if your wife ever wants to learn more about why men CD, and is willing to investigate further, suggest she the info in the link below in depth and with an open mind. It may help a lot.

http://avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm

What's more important to YOU? Dressing, or saving your marriage?? Personally, I'd go for choice number 2. If you dress behind her back, sooner or later she WILL find out about it. You will eventually leave something out and she WILL find it. Not a good scenario. Don't fall for the "it's easier to ask foregivness than permission" train of thought. That's the stupidist thing one can do in a married relationship. My mother taught me a L-O-N-G time ago that if you have to sneak at doing something, you probably shouldn't be doing it.
Jon

Gals,

Thank you all for your perspectives on this. I didn’t mention that therapy is what brought out the courage in me to say something to her. We were both brought up with the same rigidly traditional religious background, which we both recently walked away from.

I’m not currently in therapy and she isn’t interested in attending with me right now. I’m more hopeful that things could ever change for us then I was when this blew up, and I know these feelings won’t ever go away, but it is still hard when I see a cute outfit and know that right now it’s not for me.

I so wish that I could go back and tell her from the beginning, but I wasn’t able to accept this part of me then, so turning back the clock wouldn’t help. A time machine maybe? ;)

I’ll keep on going forward. Maybe continuing to have hard conversations when the timing is right.

Thanks for the moral support. It’s good to know I’m not alone.

Anne

#1 won't work for very long. #2 Is a good option #3 ho so good an option. #4I really don't think will happen.:hugs:
Angie

I cam out to my wife in much the same way. My two cents, you chose things to do that put it in her face (leg shaving, nails). Giving her little choice in what she sees may not have been the best way to allow her some space to get her arms around your CDing.
In my case, I came out to her a little over two years ago, and had not dressed at all during our relationship prior to that. We quickly went into DADT, and I respected the boundaries she set, in hopes that she would eventually come to some sort of acceptance. This takes patience, and is well worth it if your relationship is important. (To both of you)
Now, after two years, changes are occurring. Last month, at her request, I dressed for her so she could see. She knows she can look at my wardrobe any time. I believe we are heading to a good place.
Take it slow and let her take the lead in terms of what she sees and what she wants to know.

(3) DON"T get divorced, just work on your marriage.
(4) Just make sure you keep giving her lots of love.
(5) Be patient and in time she may come around.
(6) Don't push the issue either.

I would keep shaving my legs if I were you , reading this she didn't seem to mind.

Have you tried sitting down with her and telling her just how you feel? You need to keep the lines of communication open as it just might end up with DADT situation which is better than nothing at all or sneaking around when she's not there and with that there's a big chance of getting caught then.....well probably know what will happen then.

She also needs to understand that this is something that cannot just be turned off, it is a part of you of who you are and that can't be taken away.

I have tried to talk about it to her several times. She does not understand. So I keep it to myself.

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Originally Posted by Tracii G

Keep this in mind its not all about you.
You have kids to consider and a family to keep together.

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This pretty much says it all. You have a choice to make: A normal life with a loving wife and children or living in a "singles" apartment with the freedom to dress as a woman and paint your toenails. And this choice is pretty much forever once you make it.

If you are even considering leaving your wife and family so you can paint your toenails, I suggest counselling. Think long and hard about this because it is a life changing decision.

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Originally Posted by Rhonda Darling

From her reaction I suspect a rigid binary upbringing, probably with strong religious underpinings, .................

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In other words, a normal childhood.

Society doesn't accept men wearing women's clothing or painting their bodies to look like women. It's a fact. Anything like that is frowned upon.

Those of us whose wives accept our "strangeness" are lucky indeed. The OP's wife expected a normal marriage and family with a normal husband. She wants to keep it that way. Nothing "rigid" or "binary" about that, it's a normal reaction.

Tracii put it simply but well. Allso the idea of therapy to work with the situation not to cure or fix you. The skills and knowledge of the therapist is critical.

Therapy is always an option for both to help them thru the rough times.
If she says you go to therapy I don't have the problem I find sad sad because the issue does affect both partners whether they like it or not.

Ok Love is unconditional and from reading your thread you love her very much. I would get a divorce because she brought it up. This is like poker "divorce "is her bluffing, if you rise she will say you will never see the kids. Go all in call her bluff and win the jackpot. To me she is not holding any hearts thats for sure. Good luck ,know what you want and what is healthy for you. Like in Godfather 2 "no one can take your family away from you".

A disgruntles ex wife can pretty well take your family away from you if she wants to. It's as simple as moving across the country.

A divorce is not something to take lightly. It's the last thing you do when it's apparent the marriage is over. Trying to work things out and compromise is the better plan.

Maybe write a deep heartfelt letter enclosed in a beautiful card, with a box of her favorite chocalates or candy. Telling how much she means to you, but also telling all.

The genie is not going to go back in the bottle, not at all. Once the cat is out of the bag, it's out of the bag. You and your wife now share a deep secret. She probably has nobody to confide in. You have disclosed a material fact in your being that is really foreign to her. You'll read all the banter on this site about asserting your desires. That just smacks wrong to me. It suggests a wife must go along with whatever her husband wants to do. It totally ignores what the wife feels or needs. You probably misread the situation. From day one of the reveal she was probably unsettled about your cross dressing and open displays of nail polish and shaving your body. She was still mulling over in her mind "What the heck is happening?"

I don't know if she is really "playing the divorce card." It may be her way of crying for help. Does she discuss the situation with a confident? Probably not. Your marriage is already changed just by the revelation your a cross dresser. If you're looking to save your marriage and continue to explore your needs you and your wife need to see a therapist who deals with these issues. Your wife needs to be educated about cross dressing. You need to respect her limitations.

When my wife and I had "The Talk" I heard the same words. "If I had known I would not have married you." I heard the divorce angle also when she felt really isolated. She said the worst part of it all was having nobody to talk to about it. She wants nothing to do with it. I tried to coax her gently into my world with a simple plea of wanting panties for my birthday. It caused such stress on her when we went to the store that I myself deemed it akin to mental spousal abuse. I decided not to bother her with it. She genuinely suggest I find a support group to attend. Unfortunately at that time (early 1980's) there was none. She knows I dress, but, since it is DADT she does not know the extent of it. She knows nothing of my wardrobe. I do not do any body modifications such as shaving my legs, although I really do not need to do that. I do not shape eyebrows. I do not color my nails. I keep my nails neat and trimmed but do not grow them out.

Get into couple's therapy before you consider dissolving the marriage.