Sorry playing the passing game again !

It's becomming fairly normal now to go out and do my supermarket shop, even becoming a little boring , which I guess is a good thing because at least I'm not getting any adverse reaction .
Across from the supermarket is a furniture store , from the outside it looks a little run down but inside they had some nice pieces . I was looking for a full length mirror which I don't have at the moment ( not good for a CDer !) the sales girl took me through the showroom picking them all out , I said it's hard to go out not knowing what the outfit looks like full length, she then said you don't have any worries with your fantastic figure ! I have to admit I didn't expect that comment and it left me speechless for a few seconds , in the end I thanked her kindly for saying it. The mirrors were too expensive so I left it and headed into town to check out the Heart Foundation furniture shop , they had a reasonable choice at a good price so I bought one . I was the near to the Esate agent who I bought my new home from and also now buying a small house to let out from so I decided to check out how the deal was going. The sales girl is a lovely attractive blond , she sat at her desk as I walked in the door , she didn't have a clue who I was and asked politely if she could help me , the penny didn't drop until I said hello ******* . She was speechless for a few seconds and said, " Wow you do come over glam ! " I was only wearing my denim skirt with my striped navy and white top with black wedges . Then she asked what do I call you , I didn't expect that one either ! So I said Teresa or Terri but it wasn't a problem .

OK so do I eat my words about passing or not , I know I keep saying we don't pass 100% but to get this level of acceptance has just been overwhelming . I know I've been thinking and working on the everyday aspect , it looks like I'm getting it right . Sorry I will have to sort a camera out and post a few pictures with these threads .

Passing and acceptance are 2 different things. If I correctly understand the point you're making.

That is great news, Teresa!

Passing, acceptance, tolerance... The sample size is a little small for any of them. The important thing is that you are happy and living the life you want.

I agree with Tracy, if you are happy and feel this is who you really are then acceptance and passing really doesn't matter.

YAY! Teresa, such great news!

Hmm, let me see- "being the real me and there is no going back!"

That says it all.

Tracy,
As you may know from a recent series of threads where I've discussed being more out in the open , I've suggested that we don't pass 100%, there is always some tell tale signs but I have to admit the comments from todays outing were more than I expected . To pass 100% would be wonderful but to be accepted at this level is far beyond what I expected .

Phili,
You're the first one to pick up on that , I know we say these things on the forum but how true it's proving .

I've had women compliment my figure and legs, even though they clearly knew I was transgendered. It still felt good.

At least now you understand what many of us have told you for so long just be yourself and most everybody will accept you.

Result! :thumbsup:

I think part of being accepted by others, and, my comment is not limited to a man presenting as a woman, is being genuine. When you're comfortable in your own skin people are more apt to accept to you. Much of what a man or woman does is learned behavior. If the sales agent has had interaction with you prior to dropping in unexpected, then you're coming across as a woman.

I have had similar reactions from those that knew me in another world.

It becomes quite a surprise to some that you know well.

I've tried to explain the difference between passing and being accepted many times. In your case, Teresa, u may never know what passing is like. I'll try to explain again:

When u pass, folks see u as a woman and treat u as one with no 2nd thots. That means, zero trans related questions, comments, or compliments.

In certain cases, passing doesn't benefit trans that r outgoing and enjoy discussing it and themselves openly with strangers. Some of us r not that social or that interested in every person we meet in passing. If I could pass 100% I'd definitely got out dressed everywhere. Because people would leave me alone. Same as they do in drab now.:thumbsup:

Bur, since I can only pass at Halloween, I dread the constant attention being out in Vanillaland dressed gets me!:thumbsdn:

Sherry,
We are back to issue of not passing 100%, I basically accept that , there too many tell tale signs . At the end of the day whether I'm TG or TS I know there will never be zero elements to the questions and comments . OK the compliments today were lovely and unexpected , I guess they could have been made from having a fantastic figure and looking glam considering you're still a man underneath . OR is Stephanie right that I am genuinely coming over as a woman , whatever I'm totally happy being in Vanilland, it beats the situation I've finally escaped from and there's plenty more of this to come , my diary is filling up with occasions I'm going to dress for .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Teresa

I will have to sort a camera out and post a few pictures with these threads .

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...said the ex-professional photographer!

Love the estate-agent anecdote by the way.

It is a real pleasure to treated as a woman by others. Perhaps, you can alter your voice enough so as not to surprise others to further enhance your experiences.

Teresa,
From your pictures, you seem to me to pass/blend very well.
I often wish I knew if I was passing or blending, but the bottom line is that the pitchforks haven't come out yet (although I don't get out that often.)
I'm so glad to hear that this transition is going so well for you (apparently better than you expected).

Gracie,
Thanks for your kind comments , yes it's going much better than I expected . I've just read your profile page , I understand the fears wives/partners have about people finding out. Once over that problem it's hard to see why there are so many fears , the main problem is the role a man is suppose to take on , I now call it the male straightjacket , it's so destructive along with a DADT situation.

Carole,
I try not make my voice an issue, not a single member of the social groups I attend alter their voice and that also goes for the TSs . If I'm accepted as I am at the present time also taking account of my age I will be more than happy .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stephanie47

I think part of being accepted by others, and, my comment is not limited to a man presenting as a woman, is being genuine. When you're comfortable in your own skin people are more apt to accept to you. Much of what a man or woman does is learned behavior. If the sales agent has had interaction with you prior to dropping in unexpected, then you're coming across as a woman.

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I think you hit it on the head, being genuine and being comfortable in your own skin makes it easier for people to accept you. Being nervous or skittish makes people wonder what your deal is. I'm not particularly passable (but I don't think I look like Shrek in drag either), but between me trying to be confident and just enough female cues (make up, clothing, general blend-ability) I keep strangers off balance enough and surprised those who know me but not too well.

Teresa,

The estate agent didn't recognise you as being the same person as the male she originally dealt with. Sorry to say that's not the same as passing 100%. It's a question often asked here, "Would folks who know you recognise you when enfemme".

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, just make the distinction between passing and recognition.

You've made the decision to go virtually if not full time. Stop fretting about the passing issue. It's certainly good to report these wonderful interactions but I feel you need to separate, and indeed forget, whether or not you pass. If you suddenly find you don't pass are you going to sell you house and move back in with your SO? Clearly no.

Live the wonderful life you've courageously created for yourself. Just go about your daily life, accept it for what it is, by all means report the positive interactions you have. Just accept you'll never pass 100%, 90+% perhaps but whatever the figure put the passing issue to one side. Seal it in box. Stuff it in the back of a wardrobe. Expunge the word from your vocabulary. Just simply be who you are and things will only get better and better.

If you own it, people will buy it.

Helen,
The passing issue doesn't bother me because I know I don't come over as 100% female , my wife made that clear slome time ago when she commented on the size of my hands . I guess the unexpected comments did catch me out which did surprise me . There does become a blurring between , passing , acceptance and recognition , yes I was out just being me going about my business . I admit it's all still fairly new to me and those little inner voices are still casting doubts about what I'm actually doing and if I'm presenting in the right way , it will take time . I must get into context as you say but at least I'm not facing a barrage of abuse and hecklers which is often the issue many fear on the forum , since I've been going out it's never happened .

As I commented to Sherry my diary is filling up with things I will be doing dressed , like my next blood donation , seeing my GP ( about my feet ) going to a filmshow back in my home town plus a couple of LGBT events , ( attending as representative of our social group ) .

The other issue I must be aware of is that it doesn't now start to totally dominate my life , I'm now well and truly out the closet so I need to balance being out with other events in my life , my home needs renovating and redecorating so I can set my art group up , that is when dressing will take more thinking through so these issues will have to be behind me .

Teresa,

I think you have a healthy attitude and awareness on this topic. No, virtually none of us truly pass, my definition of passing being you could have a 15 minute one-on-one chat face to face with a genetic female in bright sunlight, and she would never suspect that you weren't born female. But it sounds like you caused temporary confusion, the illusion of being female was successful for a minute or so...which is awesome, fun, and really feels good! When a male hotel clerk when I had just registered called out " oh Mrs. Martin, your room key!" when I left it on the desk..I assumed that at least temporarily I fooled him..maybe :-). When the Starbucks barrista asked "what name should I put?" for when my drink was ready, she clearly read me! So yay for you!! I say enjoy these events when they happen, and don't worry about labeling them..passing, blending, acceptance, whatever...just enjoy! Sounds like you do :-).

Teresa,
Clearly you can pass or come very close to it. You are also finding a lot of acceptance so I would think it is now time to just relax, enjoy your freedom to dress as you like and when you like and don't worry about whether or not others read you for being a transvestite or just another woman in the crowd.

Gracie, when u pass 100%, you'll know!:battingeyelashes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GracieRose

Teresa,
From your pictures, you seem to me to pass/blend very well.
I often wish I knew if I was passing or blending, but the bottom line is that the pitchforks haven't come out yet (although I don't get out that often.)
I'm so glad to hear that this transition is going so well for you (apparently better than you expected).

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I'm not trying to beat a dead horse, but, passing 100% and being accepted out dressed among Muggles is NOT the same. They r nite and day different. I only know because I've experienced it. People treat u very differently when they've no doubts about your gender! And, passing and being treated as a female is not always all that great.:straightface:

Consuelo.
That's where I must learn to bite my tongue , when you do wonder what they do see you as and the temptation is to carefully word the question . Again going back to the thread, the comments were totally unexpected and not prompted by me in any way that's what caught me off guard .

Maybe I should add a footnote concerning the blond girl in the estate agents. Some time ago when I bought my property from her , the sales details had "MISS " on the title sheet and then crossed through with my surnamne following it . Going back to when I first viewed the property I told the male agent that I wish to build a conservatory to accomodate my painting group and as I was TG I would do it en femme . I asked the sales girl if he had passed this information on because of the MISS title being written then crossed through , she said he hadn't but now she knew she didn't have a problem , so then I added that at some point I would return to her office dressed . So she knew it was going to happen, even so her thinking I was a female entering the office to check out some properties was a wonderful moment and it still took her a few moments to work it out after I had spoken . I will add it was never my intention to try and fool her , the point I'd mentioned it was to give me the courage to put my money where my mouth is , it still does take just a little push to get me out the door .

I'm new here, and I know that other new members are also aware that passing is a volatile issue here. It's like politics-type volatile. I just wonder why passing needs to be so stiffly defended :thinking:. And those defenders know who they are :straightface:.

When a member reports on a situation that suggests the possibility that they might have passed in that isolated situation, there will be some here swooping in to shoot them down, stomp them into the ground, and make sure they know they did not pass . . even if there were no pictures posted :raisedeyebrow:.

Why such a vested interest in shooting them down? We weren't there; so how can we be that sure? :idontknow:.

If we don't want to support it, then couldn't we at least give an objective and balanced assessment to indicate neutrality as opposed to invariable total opposition, which indicates something a bit less than the supportive community that we should be? :straightface:

- Lydianne.

Lydianne,

The reason the passing issue is such a contentious one is so many here write of a desire to go out but know they don't pass hence stay in doors. The vast majority of those here who go out know they don't pass certainly close inspection. We may be convincing enough to be able to walk through a crowd and be largely un-noticed but that's as far as it goes. Close up, face to face, we get read.

Hence there are many who let the fear of being read and the perceived fallout from that dictate their reluctance to go out. The person who started this thread, Teresa, is/has found out that passing is not a prerequisite for being successfully out in public. Once you are able to overcome this fear there is so much waiting for someone to experience. It's the desire to spread the word that passing isn't the be all and end all of successfully going out in public. It's a dragon that needs to be slayed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Helen_Highwater

Lydianne,

The reason the passing issue is such a contentious one is so many here write of a desire to go out but know they don't pass hence stay in doors. The vast majority of those here who go out know they don't pass certainly close inspection. We may be convincing enough to be able to walk through a crowd and be largely un-noticed but that's as far as it goes. Close up, face to face, we get read.

Hence there are many who let the fear of being read and the perceived fallout from that dictate their reluctance to go out. The person who started this thread, Teresa, is/has found out that passing is not a prerequisite for being successfully out in public. Once you are able to overcome this fear there is so much waiting for someone to experience. It's the desire to spread the word that passing isn't the be all and end all of successfully going out in public. It's a dragon that needs to be slayed.

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What She said ^^.....

I think if we can all go about our lives with out making passing the goal versus just looking our best, the stress and fear will melt away.

During xmas while standing outside a store waiting for my wife, I was watching the packed sidewalks full of holiday shoppers walking by, when my eyes caught a women strutting like She owned the sidewalk.

She had this impeccable outfit on, Matching shoes , Skirt and Jacket. Then I realized it wasn't a women at all, but rather one of our sisters.

I felt bad about it later because I stared, I didn't mean to but I was shocked about how confident She looked. I hope I didn't ruin her day.

That's who I want to be, just like her.

Thank you both for the replies :thumbsup:.

Incidentally, I aim for: "hmm.. HE looks OK. I'd like to try that too!" :daydreaming:. Obviously, if I were to pass in an isolated situation, it would be a welcome bonus, but being read and still thought of as looking nice would be very satisfying. However, if someone were to stop me with the intention of telling me I look OK, I'd probably faint before they have a chance to say it. But anyway . . .

I completely understand that the fear would be one of the reasons why the passing topic is a *recurrent* one. I mean, if I'm not happy with a transformation attempt, I wouldn't take it outside. So I get that. I just don't understand the heat.

If somebody with a heap of experience of going out, interacting and seeing plenty of reactions thinks they might have passed in one particular situation, I don't understand why the motivation to discredit it should be so high. It would be nice to see more of a balanced assessment of each situation on its own merits when it comes to passing. Maybe something of the form:

"A and B might indicate you might have passed, but X and Y make me think otherwise because . . . ".

I think it would be less of a heated issue with neutral approaches like that rather than the vigorously defensive and blanketing approaches which make one ( well, me ) question motives.

Now, if somebody insists they pass in every situation every day, then I would understand the challenge, and we would need more information from that person to be sure.

- Lydianne.

Lydianne. Me thinks you suspect jealousy as the prime motivator for discrediting a claim of passing. If so, just say so. Humans are a jealous species and often act with jealousy without being conscious of it. I can see no other motivating force for discrediting claims of passing.

Honestly, I prefer to leave my question open the way I phrased it --and I thought carefully about how I phrased it-- because making emotive accusations could detract focus away and turn it into a messy fight, which then allows one to escape from having to answer a difficult question whose answer I am really interested in.

Lydianne,
I hope my threads don't become boring , I know others are far more out and about than I am but I'll keep dropping these threads in hoping the people that read them will be given some encouragement , I can't help if some members see it as something different , some will comment out of boredom and some may be jealous but honestly why they should be is beyond me .

OK today I had to go to the tool store and but a new SDS drill, the SA has a served me before and seen me as both , all she said was that looks better ! It was really good to walk most of the High Street to pick up bits and pieces it felt unbelievably normal . If you don't look for a reaction you don't appear to receive one .

Helen,
So right I'm trying to spread the word .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SamanthaToday

I was watching the packed sidewalks full of holiday shoppers walking by, when my eyes caught a women strutting like She owned the sidewalk.

She had this impeccable outfit on, Matching shoes , Skirt and Jacket. Then I realized it wasn't a women at all, but rather one of our sisters.

I felt bad about it later because I stared, I didn't mean to but I was shocked about how confident She looked. I hope I didn't ruin her day.

That's who I want to be, just like her.

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I think that's who we all wish to be. And we can if we want. I have so quickly come around to working on accepting who I am and what I do rather than being a GG I will never be that confidence is a new commodity I didn't have in abundance before.

Everyone is on their own path so levels of passing will be more important to some than others.

In the end though we're all individuals choosing to express ourselves in a way that bucks a trend in most.