Is Support About Being Honest or Should We Just Lie Not To Upset Anyone?

I have noticed that it seems to be the preferred policy on this forum to lie to someone about your opinions just to keep the Status Quo.

Someone posts a thread and you read it and you think this is not right or the person is in the wrong but it is getting to the point that it is better just to agree with them and tell them they are doing the right thing etc so you do not get accused of not being supportive or just right blunt. Someone posts a picture saying how do I look and that they are going out but they need some really good advice and that they look terrible. Is it being supportive to that person telling them they look fabby, great or fantastic when they don't?

I am always up for constructive criticism and telling someone something in a pleasant and comforting manner but why should I not be HONEST to them. Hell I would rather have someone tell me I need to do this or that to make my appearance better or tell me they think I may be in the wrong rather that just agree with me for the sake of it.

Unfortunately there are a number of members on here feel that unless you are a favourite or you do not say the right thing then you do not know what you are talking about or if you dare to be truthful about something you are sanctioned by admins. Real shame.

Will this thread be pulled or will the members be allowed to respond and please be TRUTHFUL.......I prefer honesty.

Love to you all. x x x

I think that your interpretation of your perceptions is incorrect. Most here try to be kind and helpful in their responses. And what does this have to do with dressing?

Hi Laura. I respect your opinion although I disagree with you assumption.

It is a crossdressing forum and the examples I gave in my OP deal with dressing. x

I see your point and in some cases.... agree. I fear, as our world turns, political correctness has highly influenced this forum. Yes, we “must” protect all feelings. Let’s equivocate and we’ll all feel better. Really ?

You can only control your own honesty. So do that. What everyone else does... :strugglin.

This is, after all, the internet. The stuff you are frustrated about on here usually fixes itself in the real world anyway. That's why we have NBs having no hesitation going out in 50/50 mode, wearing whatever makes them happiest and reporting no problems, yet they can't get a break here..

..aaaaaand vice versa :whistling:.

- Lydianne.

I think of this more practically. I found that there is no point in trying to adjust my wife's look if she says 'how do I look?- and there is every positive reason for enthusiastically saying 'You look great!'- and meaning - but not saying, " you look absolutely as wonderful as you think you look! " And really- if anyone is going to pick at the color mismatch when we are out, I don't have time for worrying about them.

Here- if someone posts a pic they have already determined they feel pretty good about the compromises in it- and although they say they want feedback- they also want affirmation and kindness. They, in their own world, know what they actually look like [vs a photo which never carries the fullness of a person's presence- which is what they actually look like.] We generally have no one to talk to except here. So we put up messages and valiantly offer our photos for advice.

Using myself as an example- I know that I look strange to people, but I excuse that bc they are used to seeing no beard on a woman, and the 'womanly' look for them doesn't include a beard. I look at myself in the mirror and see both their point of view and my own- an attractive male girl. I know that is also a trigger for all sorts of feelings in people, men and women. So if I post a pic- there really is no helpfulness in 'honestly' telling me I look strange.

If you lie and say I am gorgeous- I won't know if you are lying, unless you say "-really!!- but I will have a nice fleeting feeling and then come to rest with the pleasure that someone spoke kindly to me. If you say you like my shoes, I know that you are looking for something nice to say- which is also an indication of kind fellowship while not compromising your soul!

I think all this applies even to those who are extremely successful at passing, where we take their photo and gush over them! It is a recognition of how well they have done and how lucky they are to be able to do it. And all the way backwards in terms of traces of maleness showing, we choose what to say, since it really is no secret that maleness is going to show IRL.

Tips on color, better beard concealer, etc are practical ways to help each other without 'honestly' ruining their day!

I shudder sometimes when people post and ask "so give me your honest opinion".
I'm sure they want it, but I think many try to be supportive rather than actually being honest and helpful so that they don't hurt someone's feelings.

I raised this question in my "Blowing Smoke" post.
I bite my tongue quite often on this site.
Dressing for fun and in private are one thing but to go out in public looking a mess is another thing.
And if you want to dress like an old lady then dress like a fashionable old lady. The dowdy look was never chic, unless you're an Amish crossdresser.
People don't want the truth really they want to be praised for their fashion and makeup skills that just aren't there, an ego boost.
Just MHO.

I realize that I also post pics, but I don't ask for feedback but I get it, good and bad.
But I look Goooooooood.:tongueout

When I answer the question how do I look I answer it as best I can in a positive way. We all want to look good but we all know we are not 100% good looking but I have always been told to find the good in people and boost others confidence in themselves. I try and find something good in every picture as I would want them to find something I'm doing good also. If there are several pictures and they ask which outfit looks the best I tell them in my opinion it's the one I like.

Yes, you are right, but this is a support site.

Here is how I deal with it.

Pictures. I tend not to comment on at all. If I were with the person helping it would be different. Why rain on someone’s parade.

Stories about going out. How they feel is just that. The fact that I see and feel differently about it, well this is a little different. I try and gauge where they are at and speak to that.

Relationships. I tend not to comment on at all. It requires too much information in most cases to form an op.

The rest. I say it as I see it, still this is a support site. It’s about feelings not being right or wrong.

Someone posts about how they drove to the mall but couldn’t get out of the car, due to their fear.

How would you answer this post?

I think back to when I was there, how I felt. Some kind of there there it will be ok is required here. It’s a bit like a parent and child thing. Kindness will get you a lot farther than yelling and screaming.

I have to remind myself that my world is very different than most. There are times I just bite my tongue and say nothing.

I don't see any use in telling lies just to please someone. To be helpful, comments need to be honest, but constructive.
Of course it also requires the other person to be able to accept honest and constructive critisism. Sometimes i get the feeling that this might not be the case, so i avoid the debate altogether.
Like Jean, there are certain subjects i avoid outright: relationship advice etc.
I have not yet posted piccys of myself here, so i don't really feel right commenting on other member's pictures.

I think it is a disservice to lie and could be dangerous. In threads where someone is asking for opinions I might p m them as not to embarrass them and say since you asked for opinions I noticed such and such and give my opinion. For the most part everyone is here for Validation and being accepted for being themselves. If no opinion is asked for I try to focus on something positive.

There is always a fine line.

Sometimes you can say someone is gorgeous, thats easy.

We are not all that lucky with others you may have to be more critical but if you do it properly.

With a level of support eg. that is not the right wig you may be better as a blonde. It could also be the style is not right suggest a change you think will work.

Vicky,
We can never know if we are truthfully given all the facts so we can only comment on what is written . I often try and read between the lines and if I'm still not sure I will ask for confirmation . I always tell it as it is in my own threads and replies but if I don't agree with something or I feel they are mistaken then there's no reason why it can't be approached in an amicable way . If someone takes exception to that then it's more their problem and not mine .

Commenting on pictures is a tricky one , no one wants to be hurt and there are ways to make a point in a helpful manner . If I feel a wig, makeup or clothes are wrong then I will make a comment, if the person continually posts pictures without taking on board the remarks then eventually I'll give the thread a pass .

Over the years of my marriage I have gotten in 'trouble' with my wife. Many times she will say something. She says it as a "declarative" statement. No voice inflection (same on this site as we only read) to hint she is really looking for feedback. I would give her feedback if it was made as a question; an interrogatory statement. I was also counseled over the years, starting with my mother, if you don't have something nice to say, then don't say anything.

When someone posts a picture sometimes she is asking for feedback, sometimes not. I always view the picture posts with the knowledge the person is a man appearing as a woman. That alone puts the poster at a disadvantage. I don't have to guess as to the true sex of the person. This is not Jerry Springer or a site asking to guess if the person is man or woman. This site is also suppose to be supportive. At what point is the critique constructive or construed as denigrating? I have intentionally not critiqued someone because the person is firmly convinced her portrayal of a woman is spot on and nothing anyone will say will change that. It's no different in the real world of face to face meeting and conversation. There is no point in discussing something when the person is firmly entrenched in an opinion. Current politics anyone?

I also feel I have a duty to post contrary opinions when I read all these posts urging people to just don their pretties and get out there because "nobody cares." Or blissfully present yourself to family and friends without considering any potential downfall. There have been posts over the years of marriages blowing up because someone has followed bad advice.

If you're going to offer criticism or support be truthful, but, in a constructive and kind manner. If you're going to offer a difference of opinion support your position. Just don't tell the other person "you're dead wrong."

Vicky, I totally get what u r saying. I often see someone who looks really bad or is presenting badly here or on FB. Yet there r all these comments about how "hot" or "great" she looks!

In these cases I've learned to either leave no comment or post a suggestion that would help in their future photos.

One example is photos of legs/shoes taken from their waist! They r invariably unflattering at BEST!:doh:
I sometimes tell them that and suggest a different camera angle.:straightface:

There's no winning:

I try not to say hurtful things like "LOL, you look like a man in a dress" but rather try to say something like "You look good, but if you pad your hips to balance your figure you would have a more feminine appearance" and still find myself being called out as rude because I didn't just say "Oh, You look great hun".

Vicky;

I'm not sure how you can start with "I have noticed that it seems to be the preferred policy on this forum to lie to someone about your opinions just to keep the Status Quo." and have someone not think:
"Here's a person who sees opinion questions as a nail and will hammer it in with a Sledgehammer"

Makeup clothing selection and presentation like Art is a very diverse and subjective topic.
. What look someone presents appeals to or doesn't appeal is a matter of taste.
. What YOU like may differ from what someone else likes.

Support means different things to different people
Support means different things depending on where they are in their lives, just learning make up vs years of experience.

One of the things most members here don't have is the benefit of interacting with our peers in formulating a look or presentation.

I think a gentle approach is better then a hammer, unless it's soooooooooo bad that you can't contain yourself.

Honesty is the best medicine, but like all medicine only in doses that will do the most good.

10 years ago it was much more blunt and honest on here because I got myself adjusted a few times but its what I needed at the time. I didn't feel they were being mean and trying to hurt my feelings they were being honest and it helped open my eyes to what I was doing wrong.
These days everything is so PC and at times you don't realize you have gone to far for that person and they can't handle the truth or another person's opinion if its not the same as theirs.
I for one are for being honest even if it may sting a little but the best way to help is to PM the person and keep it out of the forum area and that way keep the mods off your back.

Photos: unless IMHO the person is beautiful, I don't post a reply. I will never embaress a sister on line. I will PM a sister with a constructive comment(s), and have been thanked many times for doing so.

If people don't want to be told truth then maybe they need to take a good long look in the mirror and be honest with themselves instead of asking others for an opinion. Due to body size, shape, facial features, facial and body hair, clothing choices, wig selections and makeup application ability some of us just aren't going to look GREAT but we can all learn to be the best that we can be and let it go at that.
IMHO lying to someone does them no good whatsoever.

I have a friend here that posted a picture of himself in a skirt, I did not comment on the forum but pm’d him to take it down which he did do. I’m happy to say it did not hurt the friendship.

You know, you don't have to be brutal to be honest. Constructive criticism can be done with tact. You can always suggest what might be better without ripping someone down.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Stephanie47

I also feel I have a duty to post contrary opinions when I read all these posts urging people to just don their pretties and get out there because "nobody cares."

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Although I tend to keep my mouth shut about this these days for various reasons, this is still a big one with me.

Of course, it's also a very complicated issue, at that, with a lot of factors involved that aren't so easy to dismiss either way.


Fact is, some people *do* notice & *do* care. Enough to make a stink about it to your face, even if it's just in their own little passive-aggressive way? Sometimes, but not typically... And just because they don't, doesn't necessarily mean that they don't want to... And/or, they still do behind your back, regardless.

Some of this is quite evident online, elsewhere. Is it merely emboldened keyboard-courage on the part of these so-called "ignorant haters"? Well, they're entitled to their own beliefs & opinions -- just as you are. And do you think these people simply vanish when it comes to the offline world? Nope, they don't. ;)



Speaking of beliefs...

Over the decades, I've tended to find this overall general CD community, as a whole (not just here), to be a bit delusional, at times. It's like, we want (or even expect) the rest of the world to play along & buy into this "fantasy land" of ours.

Is it all just harmless fun, with a different spin on life that arguably keeps things interesting & thought-provoking? Sure, on some levels, it most certainly is... And it really should be no big deal, because it's not.

But then things, at some point or another, start crossing some kind of ever-moving & immeasurable line. It's like, "Okay, enough, enough... We've had our little fun. Back to reality, here." The only problem is, sometimes some of us won't temporarily stop -- or even can't. That we want to, or even *need* to, remain in this "make-believe" world some more, in all kinds of ways & levels.


Sound a bit harsh? I suppose. But it's not only based on my detached & impartial observations (or at least as close as I can get), but also my own personal experiences & reality. And I don't feel it's all that far from the truth, if you stop & think about it. :)

If its to do with the Loved ones forum I think support should be honest and heartfelt as it has been with my daughters medical problems, elsewhere I think it should be genuine and constructive.

I believe pretty strongly in the old adage, "if you can't say anything nice, then don't say anything at all." I don't comment on the majority of the "do I look good" posts, unless there's something truly extraordinary about the person's presentation, and I can genuinely compliment them without hesitation. And if I do feel a need to be critical, and think the poster can handle it, I will focus on one - and only one - detail to comment on. I try to be gentle even then, introducing my suggestions with "maybe you'd like to try ..." or "it's not really my style, but ..." Gentle and slow corrections over a long period of time seems to me to be a more effective and humane way to teach than blasting away with both barrels.

- Diane

FYI there is a term for this on trans subreddits. It’s called “Hugboxing”. It’s generally frowned upon (even bannable in some subreddits) because you are giving people a false sense of how they appear which could lead to more serious incidents/ safety issues down the track.

Good post!

I don't think people are coming to this website to become a punching bag for someone's brutal honesty we get enough of that out there.

This has been a peeve of mine on this site as well. I have not originated many posts, mainly since those that I have I have gotten some good, constructive responses along with responses that are abrasive. As far as replying to posts, I was counseled for saying a simple +1 to a comment where I wanted to add emphasis to another persons post. As a guy I can take a lot of comments because I really don’t give a sh*t but if I am going to take the time to do all that it takes to make myself look like a woman and then go through the effort to take pics and post here, then I’d appreciate honest constructive criticism. If I have responded to others situations, I always try and put myself in their shoes.

So, bottom line in my book is if you ask for feedback be careful what you ask for. If you provide feedback, remember what it was like when you were in their shoes, and if you can’t remember then you shouldn’t be providing feedback.

I endeavour to be honest, giving positive advice when deserved and negative advice at other times.

Generally the negative advice is not harsh but encouraging unless the respondent is known to me or is able to understand the humour behind it.

Sometimes I do not reply as I have little knowledge of the subject or when commenting on photographs they are so poorly presented that it is better not to comment at all.

i think there is no absolute rule that can be applied, sometimes a person may post a picture and they are looking for genuine feedback and want and expect constructive criticism. Other times its more about here are some pictures of me, in this cases perhaps negative comments are not wanted. Then there are others posting pictures to shock or elicit controversy ( I stay far away from commenting on those posts lol).

Well, the responses are all over the place and nobody is likely to change their mind because of what someone else says.

What is "support"? I have posted comments and gotten nasty replies claiming that I am not supporting someone. In my mind, of course, I thought I was supporting that person. An example would be someone who posts a photo of themselves all dolled up but with obviously male hips. Obviously a man regardless of the boobs, hair and miniskirt. If I suggest hip padding, I get flamed. In my mind, I am helping them. So now, I try to resist the temptation to be helpful, knowing I'll probably hear a bunch of crap about it.

The best thing to do is ignore the post. It's a shame because if we don't get suggestions from others, we will never improve. That makes this forum less of a support forum than it could be.

I agree Krisi.
I ignore 60% of the posts these days.
I don't make near the comments I used to just because people are just so darn sensitive these days and they can't take an honest opinion for what its worth.
In my mind I was trying to help by pointing out this or that but oh no they have to get butt hurt and claim I was bashing them.
I was bashed mercilessly by a few members when I can here but it helped me step my game up.
I didn't get all bent out of shape and act like the world was ending.

Krisi,
Maybe I owe you an apology over the lower padding issue , I possibly read it wrong when you suggest it as it implies everyone needs it . Some may say I need it , I see myself with a slim female figure , my shape is in balance and that's what really matters . A broad shouldered guy needs to somehow trim his top half down and build up his lower half to achieve that balance so he doesn't have a choice but to pad up. The assumption being he wants to look right when going out in the RW . The only problem is we are talking about comparing ourselves to a perfect woman , whereas in reality many women struggle with their figures .

Hi

As a general rule in life, whether it’s about a crossdresser’s presentation, or an employees perofmance ... I try to give any feedback that could be negative in private (eg a personal message).
“Bravos” are public

I think that this is especially important in a forum like this where so many of us already get a large ration of “disapproval”, adding public humiliation from a sister seems counter productive (constructive criticism can be taken that way).


Fran

I am, unfortunately, often the voice of the black cloud. When I see someone getting their head to far into the pink fog, I feel obliged to help them out of it. I know that sometimes this might seem mean, but hopefully it prevents them from making the mistakes that I have.

Edit. The problem with 'don't lie', is well, that everyone lies. It's just that they choose what to lie about. Each reserves the right to deceive for themselves, and no one tells their SO everything about themselves; it would be impossible to; you'd have to go over your entire life. We tell others that which we feel they need to know. Stole a candy bar when you were 7? No one would think that was important. Worked the electric chair in Sing Sing for a few years? Massacre 25 civilians during wartime by accident which results in nightmares? That's different.
And then, we have to face the reality that if we DO tell all, in most cases we're relegating ourselves to a lifetime of loneliness because so few women can accept us. Not one of us thinks that's fair, because she certainly expects that we have to accept whatever SHE tells us about herself after the fact, but not the other way around.

I tend to confine my comments to general issues or to how easy and enjoyable it is to go out and try stuff on before buying. It is dangerous to advise someone on their relationships because you can never know the full circumstances. Usually "don't lie" and "always consider her feelings as well as your own" would cover it. I very rarely comment on how someone looks. Yes, some members look awful, but so do some GGs and you wouldn't attempt to tell them how to dress better. Live and let live. At the same time I don't think you are doing someone a favour if you tell them they look great when they don't. The reality is you are not going to pass if you go anywhere people will look closely at you or hear you speak. Unless you can walk like a woman you will be seen as a man even from a distance so one of the biggest give-aways is not evident from pictures. There are only a very few who pass and it doesn't matter. I don't think the ones who don't dress well or go out as MIAD (me sometimes) let the side down. The more of us out there the easier it will be for the next ones.

One of reasons I like going out dressed is the feedback I get from women. It isn't always favourable. The blouse I have on right now got a thumb down from a boutique owner - I still like it though the make is one with a frumpy reputation - Eastex. It was done politely and by drawing attention to how wonderful the rest of my outfit was. I am currently on a Facebook site where women comment on each others outfits with a rule that it has to be polite so suggestions are made. I use this name on it but am open about being male and I get wonderful feedback - from clothes-conscious GGs - what's not to like? It is a closed site and only open to customers of a particular styling service. This service has male clients too (as males) and when one wanted to join there was a discussion about whether or not this should be allowed. I reminded them there was already a male member and the support was fantastic. Apparently one member had put a scowly face next to a picture of me in a dress, I hadn't noticed but they had words with her and she said it had been a mistake. They introduced a rule that no one was allowed to be mean about gender expression and the man who wanted to join was told he could as long as he accepted the discussion was about womens clothes. So if I want feedback on an outfit I would go there rather than here (never posted a picture on here - don't even have an avatar).

Thank you kindly for all your responses. x

I prefer courteous constructive honesty. That is if somebody looks a mess, I try to look for the positives first. But also give the best advice I can where I feel improvements can be made. After all, it is difficult for most to pass. That is how I prefer folk to be with me anyway.

If I have nothing constructively positive to say at all, then I prefer not to comment. Like the old saying, if you have nothing nice to say, then just stfu.

Keira no one was saying that courteous constructive honesty was not being given but that does not seem acceptable. x

I also respect the right to one's opinion, but do not always agree, including your post. If if see a post that is damaging I will comment as such. If it is just one's opinion that causes no harm I stay out of it.

I can accept criticisms,if given in a decent manner.I don't believe there's many here that seek to do it to be nasty.In most cases advice given here is honest without being horrible.

I'd rather be told I'm presenting myself less than my best as it's,in my opinion always given honestly,without any intention to demean and in any case I think im thick skinned enough to not let it affect me adversely I mean I wouldn't be crying myself to sleep over it.My wife is my biggest critic and is very honest,brutally so when needed so she will tell me if theres something amiss and I take everything on board and will do all I can to correct it,i mean how else do we get better at this Crossdressing carry on

Sophie

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vicky_Scot

I have noticed that it seems to be the preferred policy on this forum to lie to someone about your opinions just to keep the Status Quo.

Someone posts a thread and you read it and you think this is not right or the person is in the wrong but it is getting to the point that it is better just to agree with them and tell them they are doing the right thing etc so you do not get accused of not being supportive or just right blunt. >>SNIP<<

Unfortunately there are a number of members on here feel that unless you are a favourite or you do not say the right thing then you do not know what you are talking about or if you dare to be truthful about something you are sanctioned by admins. Real shame.

>>SNIP<<

Love to you all. x x x

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In my opinion, there is a strong bias to be positive for all behaviors that are presented on these forums.
Obviously, this forum is designed to be supportive of the CD/TG community, and therefore, blatant negativity is discouraged, as it should be. Trolls are not welcome and are beheaded before they can do damage. The Mods here do a wonderful job in keeping the place friendly.

However, I feel that if someone is engaging in behavior that is detrimental to the community at large, beyond the bounds of these boards, anything that could be considered less than positive is discouraged here. If a CD/TG posted that they appeared at a children's playground, dressed like a 'professional girl' and complained that they got run out of the area, a lot of members here would be in an uproar, claiming that the individual's freedom to express themselves was being restricted, and how dare the people who felt it was inappropriate should object.


We, as a community, often seem to feel that "our" rights take precedence over others rights. At least, that is what I often perceive, not only on these boards, but in the real world as well. We often forget that we are not the only people in the world.

I don't usually say anything if I have nothing good to say. I will give an opinion sometimes when it is an either or question and it isn't a total train wreck