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Ya know, I don't particularly like hanging out with other crossdressers, it's not really my thing. I'd rather not share the attention. And forget about support groups and GNO get togethers. I know this sounds bad but I don't want to hang out with bad crossdressing. I'd rather hang out with just regular people in regular situations and places.
Just my opinion.
💋✌❤
Gerri
No its not bad its just what you prefer to do.
I gave up on the support group long ago because they were basically jerks if you didn't believe the same as they did.
Personally I don't want to be around a bunch of self serving narcissistic jack asses.
Same goes with Weight Watchers that group was so judgmental it wasn't funny.
Walked in and not even a hello but the moderator asked why are you here? I said the same reason you are looks like.
That quip didn't help any but I got my point across.
One of the ladies there laughed under her breath so we became friends right off. Even went out for ice cream after the meeting to celebrate.How is that for being a rebel ? lol
Regular people are so much easier to be around.
I am of the same mind. Except for my best friend who is also a CD, I avoid the same situations.
I get that. A number of my trans friends don't attend big get together in Vegas anymore because we take over everywhere we go!:battingeyelashes:
I often go off by myself at these trans affairs so I can mix with GG's. Most of them r vacationing, there to have fun, and r curious and accepting of trans by themselves or with one or 2 others!:D
Majella,
I feel it's a natural progression for some of us , going to social meetings and meeting others helps find ourselves and build confidence , we mustn't also forget for some it's their only outlet for a few brief hours . Maybe we shouldn't totally walk away as they still need support and help .
I'm not sure if I concern myself over sharing the attention and as for deciding what is " bad crossdressing " some people choose to be different , who can say which is right or wrong .
I'm not knocking your comments as I do agree with the sentiment , I feel at ease and comfortable just being in the RW , I do sometimes go out with a TS friend but it really is like two GGs doing some shopping and having a coffee .
Maybe it does touch on passability but I'm more inclined to say it's based on our acceptance level and what you want to represent ourselves as .
I know, I perfer to be the only transgender person in a room.
Being by yourself is different than being with even one other TG.
When I was first going out I wanted to find a TG friend to hangout with. This didn't happen, instead I made friends with GGs, the best thing that could have happened to me.
In the process I became Jean. I don't think of myself as being defined by gender. As my friends and I say I'm "just Jean".
As I represent female I follow society's and/or my friends (GGs) rules governing such. I'm more looking for my friends approval, this doesn't mean I follow them, on the contrary, I have my own style. Which if you think about it is just like most women.
I don't think of myself as being TG or defined by gender. I'm out and have developed my own set of rules to try and maintain my sanity.
By being with even one other TG person you are being defined by gender, that is why I perfer to be by myself.
Sorry if that sounds confusing, I want to be seen and treated as a woman, not a hyphenated person.
I think I can relate. I will have conversations with any friendly people in bars and clubs, but I mostly enjoy GG companionship. I just don?t run into that many CDs. I did spend one evening sitting with another CD in El Paso at the Touch Bar this year, but that was the only time. I have met some drag performers , but they typically come in just to perform instead of sitting at the bar and dancing with the patrons. I have a lot in common with others here and like to share experiences, but I would probably rather hang out with GGs instead of going to a CD only event.
Sandi
I am also a lone crossdresser. I had to do my learning and confidence building before this site came along, and found the old Trannyguide invaluable. I also phoned shops before going to try things on. Then the experience that changed my life. Only the second time I had gone out dressed in public was a short holiday in London, and I got my colours and style done as a woman. Huge confidence boost. And for me it is about the clothes, and this enabled me to move into a different league for presentation. I have had the occasional drink with a crossdresser and didn't take to them - we don't all come from the same place here and you are not automatically going to get on with someone just because you both crossdress. I prefer the company of women and have women friends I socialise with and exchange ideas with. I am a member of a couple of Facebook groups associated with the stylists I used and I am the only male member. These ladies give me wonderful advice and feedback. So why am I on here? I like the observations about crossdressers in society and I suppose there is an element of leading by example - I rarely give direct advice. I say what works for me in the hope that someone somewhere out there might find it of value. And sometimes those of us who do not identify as women feel less than welcome here. I actually find my ladies in the Facebook groups more tolerant and positive than some of the characters on here.
I guess we all have different definitions of "Bad cross dressing". There's a tendency to critique or praise each other's appearance. That's fine, but I'm not for setting rules on what other CDs should wear.
One thing about our support group is that other than CDing - we all come from different walks of life. There are good and bad points to this. After a few years I realize that others in the group have become good friends!
For the record, I've only gone out solo a couple of times and haven't been out much with other CDs either.
This is very much how I felt in relation to the support groups that I visited.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracii G
I know clubs have rules but support groups should maybe be a little different and 'members' should not be forced to act or dress a certain way (within reason) if they are not comfortable with that if indeed the prime function is support rather than something else.
However rather than cause friction I left the group which was a shame as some of the support given in the early days was very worthwhile.
I also acknowledge the effort involved in setting up and running a support group and that it must be challenging so respect the folks that give their time to do that.
My experience with TCNE has been very positive. There is a mix of people at all levels of the gender spectrum, and I have not noticed any one group trying to lord it over another. As with any group, there is internal politics, but there are enough seasoned reasonable people in the group to keep us aware that there is more that we share than there is that divides us.
Even though I am "just a crossdresser" I have formed friendships with transitioning and fully transitioned women, to the extent that we will occasionally meet and socialize outside of the club.
Exactly !Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean 103
I agree With Jean and Ro I am a lot like that too.
I have always preferred to do my own thing.
The support group I attended really helped me a lot in the beginning.
Then all the ultra tranny activists types took over.
Even one of the older ladies that started the group left because she didn't like the direction it was going.
I can understand how you feel Majella, having attended a CD/TG conference myself and in my short time as a member of the TG community. Even though there is safety in numbers, going out in big groups actually draws more unwanted attention. Once we have our own style, ability, and the confidence to go out in public, we don't want to be held back by or thought of as just some guy in a dress.
Therein lies the beginning of the big rift in our community, and it only gets larger as we progress on our journey, specially when that journey leads us to TG/TS.
We all have to remember that we were all once that "ugly duckling" we are trying do distance ourselves from.
As for support groups... Well they are only as good as the people who attend. I go to a TG support group occasionally and they are a really nice group of people. I have to say they are often telling the same old stories and discussing the same old issues over and over again. Just like here :p But I am happy to have met every single one of these people, as I really like having trans friends
By bad crossdressing I mean, just slapping on an old costume wig, some horrible caftan a Halloween makeup job and call it crossdressing. Make a little effort. Take some pride in your appearance. Be better.
I would love to meet some accepting GG's but that has not happened. The few times I did go to TG events it was meh. I'm not really into the bar scene; been there done that and at 65 a bit out of my league and as someone who is happily married with an understanding wife I found the crowd at such places to be on a different wavelength than me. For now I simply go out shopping and dining alone.
I also prefer flying solo to being a group act. I do have a friend or two I enjoy going out with but the great bulk of my time dressed is out on my own, in some of the most public places possible, in front of as many people as possible. Interaction with the general public is what it's all about with me. Frankly, when at group outings or get-togethers, I feel mostly that I don't fit in and am rarely comfortable. While walking into any place otherwise, I have complete ease and comfort.
Not saying I didn't meet and make friends with some awesome people at my group but the climate of that group has changed a lot.
They have turned into the one faction of the trans movement I don't much care for.
I guess some of us just aren't trans enuff, r we!?:sad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Majella St Gerard
I have met with a number of, "Just throw on a dress, no wig, no forms, no make up", T's. As I recall? They were all lovely people!:)
I mostly hang out with Lesbians and GGs. I do occasionally go out and meet other TG folk. I enjoy talking to many of our sisters. Though I too am weary of the militant girls.
I live a good part of my life as a woman. I'm no beauty by any means, but I like to think that for the most part I pass...ish. When I'm with GG's I'm more likely to be ignored, especially with my lesbian friends.
When I'm with our sisters...well...everyone has their own style and it is just as valid as mine. But when you spend hours getting ready to go out for the evening and you change everything three times...sometimes including your hair and make up; it can be, for me at least, a bit disconcerting to sit next to a sister who is obviously wearing water balloons and a full beard. Again, I'm not knocking anyone's look. It is just that my preference is to blend.
Being Trans and being a crossdresser are two different thingsQuote:
Originally Posted by docrobbysherry
Wait . . . you're a defender of the realm now??? :raisedeyebrow:. After the "how is what you do satisfying compared to me?" and the "I'm actually me, and I get 5 friends per day on Facebook?" What, do these people also get 5 friends per day on Facebook too? . . . Whaaa? :eek:.Quote:
Originally Posted by docrobbysherry
I’m going to stay away from the “bad crossdressing” thing because that’s a bit of a minefield. I will say that I’m not big on the idea of hanging out with other CDers just BECAUSE they are CDers. Their choice of expression does not necessarily make for common ground.
That being said, I do actually prefer the company of gender-non-conformists. Sharing a space with people who inherently understand things about you means I get to build relationships from the ground up, like most of the world instead of having to explain my existence and how I fit into someone’s concept of human beings and having to start in the sub-basement.
Not always. You could be both like me. Most here would likely think of me as T-whatever, but technically I'm a CD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majella St Gerard
You could also be one without being the other.
Is a crossdresser the same as a transgender?
The term crossdresser, which is a noun, has a very different meaning, though it is commonly associated with many of the same ideas. It is most typically used to describe men who sometimes choose to wear the clothing, makeup, and accessories that are culturally associated with women. Though crossdressers do not wish to live as women full-time or permanently change their sex, their choice to crossdress is a form of gender expression rather than of entertainment. For this reason, drag queens and kings are not necessarily labeled as crossdressers.
trans?gen?der
/transˈjendər/
adjective
1.
denoting or relating to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender does not correspond with their birth sex.
I am a crossdresser.
Majella,
No a CDer is not the same as being TG . To me the clothes are the window to the World of how I feel inside but I have to admit it doesn't feel like CDing anymore in fact being dressed in male mode feels more like Cding nowdays .
Jean has it right , she is just Jean , that is the only label that's important to her and I feel very much the same way .
The one question it may raise is am I living as a woman or just as Teresa ? I feel my reply is the latter .
I'm saying that they are not the same.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teresa
By definition I am a crossdresser and you are transgendered.
I have to chuckle at this statement. I know exactly what you mean. I've seen two cross dressers out and about in my small city. One I've seen twice. One was obviously a self absorbed exhibitionists who was accompanied by his totally bored wife. The other obviously needed some skills. I will admit they had the gumption to get out there, but, I doubt if there was any basis for a friendship. However, does it not apply to GG's too? I know there are always the jokes/websites about people who shop at Wal-Mart, but, it is true of the general population. Go to any store and you'll see women (and men too) who look like something the dog dragged home. On the other hand I probably have crossed paths with cross dressers who are so well put together I did not notice them. And, moderator, I am not knocking cross dressers in general. I am just including them in what I see when out and about in the general population. Usually, when someone looks as bad as you describe they are usually lacking any sort of bond you are looking for in a relationship. I belong to a support group which has nothing to do with gender expression or identity. There are some attendees who I have nothing at all in common with other than the reason to be there. Two hours once a week and we all go home. No bonding other than those two hours.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majella St Gerard
When I peruse the postings of very attractive cross dressers on YouTube I am envious of how they are "put together." Envious because when I was their age society was not so accepting and I was down in the dumps with self loathing and lack of self esteem. I did search for a support group when I needed it the most. I did contact and speak to its "hot line" or "crisis line" and found them to be totally self absorbed and really not interested in reaching out. I just hoped they never answer a suicide hot line.
Perhaps with age comes some maturing. I know I do not need to be among "like thinkers" to accept myself. I passed that hurdle many years ago.
What is transgender and who are considered that is a grand debate here every so often. For simplicity sake, I stick with the site's definition (Go look it up!). The term "Transgender" is an umbrella term covering "all" (emphasis mine), from panty wearer only to full time post op transsexual. I call it the umbrella term.
I respect and fight for everyone's right to present as they wish. If they want to walk down the street in panties, stockings with a garter belt, high heels and some type of bra, good for them. However, that does not mean I will want to associate with them in any way. However, that is their right and they can enjoy or suffer the consequences of their actions because they do not in any way affect me.
As someone said above, Micki, I think, I am interested in the person and the personality and have a lot of trans, CD and gender queer friends and acquaintances. However, I do not necessarily go looking for them. I have an equal number of cisgender friends who got to know Allie in my early crossdressing years and liked me then and like me now as a full time, no exceptions, trans woman, a woman!
So, in regards to this thread, I agree with the OP that going alone works fine. However, I can get the same amount of enjoyment that way or with being with my group of trans (umbrella term) friends and acquaintances. That is her personal preference and this is mine. As for her comment,
"By bad crossdressing I mean, just slapping on an old costume wig, some horrible caftan a Halloween makeup job and call it crossdressing. Make a little effort. Take some pride in your appearance. Be better."
You are being unfair to those that do not meet your personal standards. The way that you present could be considered this same way by others. What is that old saying, "Do not judge others as you will also be judged."? So why be so hard on those like that?
Well... Sure but in my case being a Crossdresser was just a lie I told everyone including myself because I didn't want to be Transgender.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majella St Gerard
People have come up with all kinds of reasons why they CD. But I honestly believe that if you weren't trans, you would have never had the original urge to CD and then continue to act on it.
I?ve never expended much effort seeking out other crossdressers. I like being with others like myself, but to me that means ?other women? not ?other mtf crossdressers?. I don?t really see myself as a crossdresser, but more as an ordinary woman with some atypical body parts.
My post refers to Crossdressers not people who are Transgendered. There is a difference, CD's "might " be under the Transgender umbrella but they are miles apart. All the Transgender people I know would hit the roof if you referred to them as a crossdresser.
As this is supposedly the crossdressing section of this crossdressing forum, I think it would be obvious that I was referring to Crossdressers. I personally stay off the Transgender section because I do not belong there. Why are there different sections then?
I've been dressing for as long as I can remember (30+ years?) and have flown solo pretty much for all that time. I've contacted a handful of other crossdressers over the years through Flickr, Facebook, Instagram but whenever I've gone out I've been on my own. I'm open to meeting up with other CD's but, due to my limited windows of dressing opportunities, its been difficult to coordinate. As for support groups, I never really felt the need to contact any but I can understand why others might need to. I've personally never been troubled or bothered by what I do except for the amount of money I've spent over the years <sigh>.
Majella,
It was not obvious that you were talking about crossdressers. This section is not exclusive to crossdressers only. It is the main general forum for the site where everyone can post on a wide variety of topics. If you want your posts to be specific to somebody under that transgender umbrella, then it is better to be more specific in your OP. As far as my comments go, they apply to everyone, including non trans people. We regularly get reminded by the admins/mods here to not disparage anyone for whatever reason. I feel the same way here and everywhere and was directing my comments to you based on your quoted comments above. I respect you and how you dress and enjoy your super short and sometimes wild outfits that you use when DJing. I mean nothing personal to you, except for those words that I quoted.
One more thing. I cut my baby teeth on this site 6 years before you joined up and it has helped me get to where I am at. I definitely know the differences and wide variation of the members and identification terminology on this site. I rarely hit the roof for anything and I have gone from beginning crossdresser to a full time transexual woman. I would guess that most transsexual women on this site would also not hit the roof either. Some from a few years ago might have a did a few times. They have moved on. Though I probably have encountered more out in the real world. Happy New Year ..... Allie
Here we go again!
Early on I had a couple of TS friends. They disparaged me for only being part time (their words) and stated that I had no right to an opinion on TG issues. That made short work of those friendships.
On the other end of things, all the CD people I met were the clubbing type and wanted sex sex sex. Because I was happily solely attracted to women I was a killjoy.
Regular, everyday serious CDs who go out like me and some others here are rare birds indeed. Most people I have talked to assume I am full time. But I have learned from experience that a lot of people on the TG spectrum are narcissistic and so I am happy to keep my distance and interact with the muggles, which is the end goal anyway - to be a part of regular society.
Allie, I specifically stated Crossdressers in my first sentence, If I meant Transgender I would have said that.
I apologize for missing that in your first sentence. However, my comments on disparaging others on this site still stand whether a crossdresser or anyone else.
Look, there are a lot of people that I really don't like how they look, including many cisgender people. I wouldn't want to associate with them. Just like what you said in your first post here. No problem.
However, always try to never talk down about them online or in any other way. I especially do not like it when people do it on a support site like this. That is the reason for my comments about that here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majella St Gerard
It's a two way street honey... Why do so many crossdressers hit the roof when you refer to them as transgender?
This is the problem with trying to adhere to labels, Crossdresser just like Transgender is an umbrella term that really covers anyone that enjoys wearing the clothing of the opposite gender for whatever reason, including being transgender.Quote:
Originally Posted by Majella St Gerard
Overall the problem with labels is we tend to use them to justify and differentiate ourselves from others we feel superior to.
I prefer to go solo. That is true both en femme and in drab.
I grew up as the eldest in an enormous family. Fourteen of us. My parents, both youngest children in big families, had a simple rule for solving disagreements among us: the side with the youngest combatant is always right. I learned ways to survive and prosper alone. I left home at the earliest possible opportunity and never looked back. Being a cross dresser was mostly a solo thing fifty years ago. I just kept it that way. I have preferred to be solo ever since, en femme and in drab. It is easier that way for me.
You may be right, Roberta. I certainly told myself that lie for most of my life. When I finally approached therapy openly and honestly, things became clear in short order, despite the fact that "sorting out gender issues" was not my main goal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertacd
Still, the vast majority of people here would brace at the idea that they are latent transsexuals. I am confident that some are, but the psychological community recognizes many "gender variant" categories. To be sure, there remains much work to be done before we can understand those under the umbrella. Perhaps the Rice University study that's focused on crossdressers will shed some much needed light on that group.
To Allie's assertion that the fetish dresser walking down the street in her underwear does not affect her personally, I'd agree, but... it does affect all of us indirectly. That particular behavior is inappropriate, regardless of one's gender, and right or wrong, it affects how the general public views us. To deny that it does is to deny plain fact.
Majella,
The forum does pose this problem sometimes , which section is the right one to post in ? I do struggle at times to know which section to use but this section is really the open house where we can ask almost any question to a greater variety of members .
It's odd at times that I encounter more problems on the forum with labels than I encounter in the RW , one problem is we have too many labels for the RW to deal with and there still remains confusion on the forum with some of them .
Aunt Kelly ,
The term , " Latent transsexual " intrigued me , it's not something that occured to me before but possibly true .
Angela,
I must admit I have two very good TS friends that have quietly encouraged me , no big push and no put downs , I go out regularly with one who makes me feel like woman .
Allie,
I'm torn between your comments and Aunt Kelly's on presentation in the RW , I agree we all have a choice but at ther same time we are still a minority and when seen in the RW I feel we have some responsibilty to present oursleves in an acceptable way . OK the bathroom issues still rumbles on in the US but how does a GG really feel when she's using the facillites when an obvious CDer totters in on 5" heels with a skirt no wider than a belt especially if she has young children with her . Maybe I should extend that question to ask how would the wife and family of the CDer feel if they knew ? At least I know my familly don't have that thought to consider .
I would criticise anyone who went out in their underwear even if it was gender appropriate and if men go out in public in women's underwear they might get prosecuted. Not sure what for but it would damage the reputation of all crossdressers.
The label thing is a bit more important than it first appears. I am a crossdresser. I do not have gender issues and do not regard myself as trans. If my friends and colleagues found out I did this, they would assume that I had gender issues because of the whole trans thing. The box with me in it might as well not exist - the idea of a man who dresses as a woman for recreation is not on anyone's radar. Yes, it is compulsive, but it does nothing form me sexually and at no stage do I imagine I am a woman - I just like to look like one (a very well dressed one). I do not mind in the slightest if people realise I am a man and treat me accordingly. I would love to go out with my friends completely dressed as a woman but acting and talking as a man. Society is not ready for this because such people get no exposure in the media and are fairly few even on this site. When I go out dressed I feel the need to act and speak like a woman. I quite enjoy it but the real reason is that the public find this easier to cope with than a man dressing as a woman without making any behavioural concessions in that direction. I am happy with who I am. I have women friends who are happy with who I am, and I am on Facebook groups who are happy with who I am. It is only on here I get told repeatedly I am something I do not feel myself to be. I will apply my own labels to me. Labels applied by others without consent can obstruct progress in society and there is a case for all variations to be accommodated without fitting into boxes designed by others. Some of us just like dressing up for its own sake. It's fun for us, nothing more.
getting back to the OP - and refusing to go off on the "label" squabble that seems to always crop up...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Majella St Gerard
I used to go a CD group years ago, but stopped.
It wasn't my 'thing' either.
I've never felt I was 'just' CD. (What I AM is still uncertain)
I'm really rather shy and insecure - I don't mix that well with strangers.
I was always comparing myself to the others (YIKES! I hope I don't look as bad as -um- her? OR Gee, I wish I could look even half as good as HER) Either way I lost.
Like others have said, I didn't have much in common with them, beyond the dressing .. and that's about all they ever talked about.
All that said - I also have to disagree a bit with the OP
I didn't want to be the center of attention - let alone share it. I would been elated If I'd ever been mistaken for one of the SO's that would come.
And bad crossdressing? Where better to practice (and hopefully to perfect) your skills than in a group of fellow practitioners?
I've gotta admit though, seeing an obvious "Man wearing a dress" sitting there with legs spread-wide-and-showing is definitely off-putting. <shudder>
One last thought - it's hard to NOT come off as self-centered or self-absorbed when going out dressed up - to talk to others about dressing up. It's the whole focus of the evening. At least that's what happened in the meetings I attended. CD was the whole reason for the meetings. "Outside lives" were private and not mentioned.