So you?re in a serious relationship and want to crossdress... here?s my advice.

I just shared this on another member?s thread. I strongly feel it?s good, solid advice. So I?m going to repost it here:

Just be frank with her, Youre my wife and I dont want to keep secrets from you. I thought you should know that I have a desire to wear womens clothes.

Never never never....

1) assume she feels a certain way without her having expressly told you so.
?Well based on her actions and statements I can assume...? NO! No you cant assume.

2)Secretly buy feminine things and hide them. Keeping secrets is always a bad idea.

3) Wear her things without asking first. Its creepy, and secretive (see #2).


Check out these guidelines on non violent communication. It emphasizes listening, empathy, and respect. It could help in this conversation.

https://www.nonviolentcommunication....on/4-part-nvc/


Also, put yourself in her shoes, metaphorically of course. Imagine her telling you she doesn?t want to look like a female at times and wants to look like a man. Loose drab clothing, flat chest, short hair... imagine your beautiful wife like that. How does it make you feel? Now hold onto that as you discuss this with her.

Good luck.

Fantastic, Chole. Great post!

Based on reading endless posts on this forum over the past ten years some of your advice may, inadvertently, lead to disaster. In order to get to the "never never never" you have to get past the acceptance level. Sometimes secrets are best kept by one person. Just saying!

I agree never keep we secrets and never tell your wife what to wear (perhaps she will adopt the same attitude)

This subject has been beaten to death here, primarily because there are two, rather opposing, points of view on the matter of dealing (or not) with crossdressing in the context of a relationship.

One view holds that it will likely ruin the relationship. This view is, not surprisingly, promulgated by those who prefer to keep their nature a secret from their partners.

The other view is that it is wrong to hide this from the partner in a committed relationship.

Both approaches are, sadly, likely to strain the relationship, if not break it outright. There are exceptions, of course, but they are just that, exceptions. That is the unvarnished reality, my friends. IMO, being honest and open about who you are is still the best approach, by far. Being in a relationship that is built on deception is a waste of time, for both partners. Get it out in the open, early on. The odds of the relationship surviving are higher without years of deception added to the revelation. Either way, IMO, it is better to acknowledge who you are and let the chips fall where they may.

Yes, this is "just" my opinion, but I've lived it both ways and learned from it. You can't change who you are. This is not a "condition" that can be eradicated. It can be suppressed, but only at some cost; personal cost from the denial of who we are, and relationship cost from the deception or the fallout of that personal cost. Yes, it takes tremendous courage to face this. That it's revelation will wreck most relationships is a very real risk. Those who have accepted themselves, to the point of knowing that they should share it with anyone close enough to matter, are better off, if the stories here are any indication.

My relationship history is essentially non-existent, so feel free to ignore this, if that's appropriate.

But, just to get this point of view out there: My plan, should I ever decide to try again, is to require that she, the intended partner, is fully aware of the situation going in, before anything ever happens. For me, I figure it's better to know before ever embarking rather than finding out weeks, months, or years into the relationship. That just feels kind of like a bait and switch, to me. Plus, it eliminates that awkward "talk," if she already knows from the beginning.

Granted, this does limit options, particularly for closeted folks such as myself, but I think having a smaller pool from which to select is the lesser evil than having to introduce this to the relationship after the fact.

Again, I have virtually nothing to draw upon, but that's my logic, for whatever it's worth. :)

I believe No. 1 has caused many marriages to fail, Chloe. Not just trans's!:doh:

Never, ever assume anything when it comes to GG women!:eek::devil:

Your reasoning is spot on, Val.

I've been a slower learner when it comes to relationships. I was very adept at convincing women I was a viable life partner and four of them married me. I failed in every situation to recognize how my secret behaviors, which included crossdressing, so preoccupied my attention, my fantasy life, that I really wasn't available for an intimate relationship... and here I'm talking about an emotionally intimate relationship. I've finally come to realize that I was never a good candidate for a real relationship. Whenever things got tough, I'd run into my fantasy world for solace leaving my wives bewildered about what has just happened. Crossdressing, always in secret, was one of those things. I've made amends to my former wives through my involvement in a couple of 12 Step programs. I have no intention of putting another woman through all of this... now I indulge in my fantasy world without constraint. I'm hurting no one. Hiding parts of ourselves is a recipe for a disaster or a sham relationship without honest intimacy. Stepping past shame doesn't simply mean passing in public but being honest about our behavior with those who share our lives.

I actually think it?s Game Theory. Maybe some of the engineers and mathematicians will understand but no one else will.

So, let?s think about a game we can all understand, which is ?Rock, Paper Scissors.?

RP: Paper wraps Rock
RS: Rock dulls Scissors
PS: Scissors cuts Paper
Both the same, try again

The CD gets to pick Rock, Paper or Scissors.

The SO doesn?t get to pick; she is naturally either Rock, Paper or Scissors. Either CDing will really turn her off (Rock); CDing will really turn her on (Paper); or she could take CDing or leave it (Scissors).

If you win, you and your SO live happily ever after. If you lose, you make good friends with a divorce attorney.

As you can see, sometimes you win, sometimes you lose. For example, if she?s a rock, you better be Paper not Scissors if you want ?to live happily ever after.?

I know Rock, Paper Scissors over-simplifies it, but you get my point.

I would guess that 40% of SOs are Rock, 50% are Scissors and only 10% are Paper.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sometimes Steffi

RP: Paper wraps Rock
RS: Rock dulls Scissors
PS: Scissors cuts Paper
Both the same, try again

The CD gets to pick Rock, Paper or Scissors.

The SO doesn't get to pick; she is naturally either Rock, Paper or Scissors. Either CDing will really turn her off (Rock); CDing will really turn her on (Paper); or she could take CDing or leave it (Scissors).

If you win, you and your SO live happily ever after. If you lose, you make good friends with a divorce attorney.

---

Good analogy, Steffi! How is the CD to know whether honesty will preserve a marriage--or wreck it?

The trouble is that even trying to explore the topic beforehand with an SO might raise suspicions. "Why do you so often make remarks about crossdressers?"

With my mother, it might have been OK. After she'd seen stage performances, I remember her saying more than once: "I do think it's funny when men dress up as ladies, don't you?" I imagine she would have been accepting, if my father had been a crossdresser--which he wasn't. (As far as I know!) She dropped clues of her own about her possible attitude.

But I don't suppose most wives do. And some, like that past girlfriend of mine I've mentioned here before. dropped negative clues all over the place. She was Rock, for sure. Had I stayed with her, I would have been deep in the closet forever. Luckily I didn't, and my wife of forty years was Paper.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aunt Kelly

"Being honest may not get you a lot of friends, but it will always get you the right ones."
-- John Lennon

---

Honesty, yes.

There was a young lady of Kent
Who always said just what she meant.

People said "She's a dear!
So unique! So sincere!"

- But they shunned her by common consent!

Things that work well for some fail m?serably for others. Relationships are not based on universal laws like physics or math or gravity. They are built on irrational and raw emotions and, more often than not, mountains of personal insecurities and hangups. There is nothing certain about what we do or how a loved one will react to it.

Just like my last marriage of 8 1/2 years she knew before we started dating and we?re together for a bit over a year before making the plunge. Well when the divorce started she made it a point to try and make all the blame on me mainly because she got her parents involved during the separation and they never knew the cruelty she put myself and her own kids thru. Oh and she even told the kids from the start I was a cross dresser. They were always fine with it. Actually two years after our divorce she got married again and she had no excuse like she did with me and cross dressing he just cheated on her due to her doing the same to him her kids don?t even associate with her as they figured her out as they grew older. They?re all married to good spouses and have kids of their own now. Their not doing the mistakes she did with them. I believe most cross dressers that do get divorced that?s not the real reason for the breakup period. Most times is other major issues. Just my 2 cents on the topic if I?ve offended anyone forgive me and I?m sorry.

After my divorce, which had nothing to do with crossdressing, I began to expand my wardrobe and dress more. When I met my current wife I told her on our 2nd and 3rd date. After living alone for almost 5 years and dressing whenever I wanted I knew that keeping it a secret was not realistic, both for practical and ethical reasons. She was fine with it. She did go out with me a few times but decided it wasn't for her. No problem. She buys me clothing, gives me suggestions, and is honest about my look, from makeup to wardrobe.

All of the posts below make valid points and no one size fits everyone. That said, I'm in the "tell early" camp & I think Chloe and Aunt Kelly nailed it.

My personal strategy: In the first few dates, I'm looking for her to commit on some issue of morality, then I hang it off the back end. Example:
She: "Oh those people , busy bodies, etc.> are so narrowminded.
Me: "Right. The good news is their constant state of anger will likely send them to an early grave. It's much better to keep an open mind. By the way, I have several different personalities, some masculine, some feminine, and they each have their own wardrobe. I just thought you should know. Any big secrets you would like to share?"

Although this strategy makes it easy to accept in the moment, she might change her mind in a week or two. It has happened, but I figure it would never have worked anyway, so no loss. I suspect that when she discovers your stash on her own, most of the anger and resentment is over the secrecy, not the crossdressing. The above method avoids that and she only has to deal with the issue at hand. Much cleaner. BTW, tri-ess.org has a Bill of Rights for partners and one of the items is not wearing her things without her permission. If you violate this one, you will have earned her wrath and I and most of the girls on this site WILL NOT stand with you, you selfish jerk.

I thought I had a partner that was open minded enough to understand but no. Moving forward my current partner I met on Fetlife. She was actually into both sides of myself. We have been together for over a year now and life is good. My advise would be if you want to crossdress and it not be a secret disclose as early as you can in the relationship so yo can not trouble each other if there is a problem. its pretty wonderful to have your partner help do up your garters in the morning when you are on your way to work with your lingerie under your boy clothes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MonicaPVD

Things that work well for some fail miserably for others. Relationships are not based on universal laws like physics or math or gravity. They are built on irrational and raw emotions and, more often than not, mountains of personal insecurities and hangups. There is nothing certain about what we do or how a loved one will react to it.

---

Monica

That's why I said it was game theory, not physics.

I saw that you posted that you were an engineer, so I expect that you understand game theory.

If not, think about brownian motion of the electron states of an atom.

Plus, for the tell early part. I've been married for over 42 years. If I knew then what I know now, I might have been more honest. Then, I was about as honest as I could be. I thought I was the only CD in the world, even though I didn't know what a CD was at that time.

Besides, I thought that marriage would cure me. I'm not the only one who thought that, right?

The first relationship I had, the woman in question had only ever seen me dressed in femme mode and so I didn't have to hide it at all. It was more surprising the first time she saw me in male mode.
I started a post recently about a new relationship I have started this year and still haven't been able to bring it up to the new lady in my life. I know the time to do it, if you are going to do it at all, is to be upfront from the start.
My sister asked me the other day (who knows all about that situation in my life) and she asked if I had told her yet and she thought, I should put melissa on hold anyway and while I respect her advice, I don't agree with her in this instance. I haven't really felt like going out for ages anyway, even before this year, for a variety of reasons anyway

update- I'm glad I couldn't bring myself to do it as she ended things yesterday which had nothing to do with dressing.

Chloe,
Your last paragraph is a little inaccurate as it only looks from one perspective , we very rarely hear from F/M TGs who possibly do exactly how you describe , so what does the male partner really think and say ? " Do you want to be a man , and are you gay ? The split is now almost 50/50 between M/Fs and F/Ms but that apect is never often considered .

The other point where some of the points break down is always the assumption the male CDer has all the secrets to hide or reveal , women aren't expempt from withholding secrets , I do question how many men discover things about their wives after they marry . Honesty and disclosing is a two way street but very often we don't disclose because we are MEN and MEN don't behave like that , dealing with that truth is very hard if not devestating for some men . The wife might say , " I didn't sign up for this !" but how many of us also signed up for it , if we're born with this trait we really don't have a choice .

My two cents
If your married and thought you could stop after your got married. (Or any other reason for not telling her) I like Chloe advice.
If your single and find someone your interested in, (Not necessarily the first date) I like Val's advise.

There is an additional aspect that has not gotten much attention in this thread. I was married 19 years before I realized I was a cross dresser. For most of my married life I didn?t connect the dots. Now I have a wife who I know is fundamentally opposed to cross dressing. Factor in my previous mistakes and now I am left with a choice. I can come out to her which no matter what I say will only validate that I am gay in her mind and that I have lied about my sexuality. So if I tell my wife, she will be more hurt by what she sees as a bigger lie.

I struggle with whether to tell her all of the time. On one hand I want to protect her and me from the consequences of my blindness. At the same time, I do wish I didn?t have to hide. She is who she is though and I lover her anyway.

We each have our own relationship and only the person in it knows for sure the best course of action. Advice is great and can help. In the end, we all have to make the best decisions we can with the information we have.

This has been beat to death. Oth there are a lot of newish girls that are not going to spend an hour searching old threads.

I have always told all of my serious relationships about me, from a very early time. Obviously not the first date, but always within the first six months. If she totally freaks out when you tell her then she will probably always freak out. There are exceptions but the reactions probably won't change much over time. Remember she "fell in love" with the man you portray yourself to be, not the inner woman you hide so well.

Secondly; most of these threads really forget something very important. Most women keep secrets too. I'm saying that as a professional interviewer/interrogator. It may be something small, or large or inbetween, but nobody is completely honest, and in my profession the people who tell you they are "an open book" are usually hiding the biggest secrets.

When people say that secrets are never good, well; there is a grain of truth to that. Though in real life sometimes secrets have to be kept. Especially professional secrets.

I was married for fourteen years. I told my wife all of my personal secrets within the first year. ALL of them. She assured me that she had told me all her secrets. In the next thirteen years I found out how extensive her drug use was. How she was a literal teen prostitute. Her adult escapades that most in polite society would find...on the wild side. And on and on. In fact I learned one big secret from her in the last month of our marriage. She went through an early mid life crisis and married a much younger man. They have been married for 20 years now. At our youngest daughters wedding she and I talked and I asked her if her hubby knew about her past. She said "Nope, and I'm not going to tell him. You're the only one that knows the real me. Not my Mom. Not our daughter. Not my best friend. Just you. "....anyway....it's not just us that keep secrets. I will admit ours are usually pretty high up there on the list of relationship breakers.

Honesty is the best policy. But be prepared to move on.

There is no one size fits all when it comes to relationships. My wife knows that I'm a crossdresser and doesn't want to know that I'm dressing or see me dressed. The common term is don't ask don't tell so she basically said if I have to dress keep it to myself so by remaining stealth I am respecting her wishes. When we got married 50 years ago I told her about my crossdressing experience at around 12 but at the time I considered it a one time anomaly. It wasn't until recently in my late 60's that I looked back at my history and how my crossdressing progressed over the years and became something more than my first impressions of my strange little secret as a teen.

Now the question becomes do I accept her DADT arrangement or do I want more? DADT does not provide enough freedom to go out clubbing but I don't drink or have much of a night life at 69 so no need to push for the freedom to do that. The only other advantage would be that instead of sitting in the recliner under a blanket watching TV with a cat on my lap while wearing sweats with panties underneath would be that I would do the same while dressed in women's clothes. No GG in their right mind would confront their spouse over what they wear while lounging in the recliner, it's just not a big deal whether my sweats are black or pink. Why should I push for the right to do that on her? If I had the freedom to wear anything I want around the house I'd probably wear the same thing because my level of laziness after a hard day of yard work is less than my desire to express myself to my cats by wearing women's clothing.

This is where the line between transgender and crossdresser gets blurry. By my way of thinking a crossdresser is able to compartmentalize and refrain from dressing when the situation calls for it. A transgender person on the other hand needs to express themself and live their truth. I totally understand and support that but this is the crossdresser section of the forum and I have a hard time understanding how anyone who cannot restrain themself from having to dress and engage in what are often risky bordering on dangerous situations can think they are just a crossdresser.

Where I live it would be relatively easy in this more rural setting to go to a bar dressed en femme and have someone follow me to the parking lot and assault me. I'm not a big guy and always avoided fights because I knew I would lose. Why would I want to purposely flirt with that prospect where I live in rural red America?

While I love to dress and would obviously like to dress more location and circumstance leave me with no desire to do anything that would risk my safety or go beyond what we agreed to. At one time I thought the fog might lead me down that path but location and circumstance keep me in that place and if I am able to restrain myself the fog can't be as bad as I once thought. My wife did not say do not dress, she said she doesn't want to know or see it and I am respecting her request by not dressing in front of her. At times that gets frustrating but not so frustrating that I would risk a fifty year relationship hence winning the battle and losing the war. By that I mean that if I pushed too hard we could both end up old, lonely and living separately in run down apartments having to split our income. That prospect is not worth the risk of pushing the envelope for me. Maybe it is for some but I don't see any sense in doing that. On the other hand I don't agonize about my wife finding an item of clothing or anything like that.

My wife considers herself to be a beacon of tolerance and understanding and goes out of her way to defend those causes. For example, if we watched a show about transgender people and I happened to make a comment that she perceived is intolerant she would lecture me about it. I have to walk on egg shells to not get a lecture about and obviously as a crossdresser who at times has thought I might be something more I am sympathetic to those things. For example, if we watched a show where a crossdresser got beat up for using the women's room and I said "they have to be careful because that can be dangerous in the wrong situation" my wife would interpret that as intolerance and give me a lecture about being accepting. I would have meant nothing more than that they needed to be aware of their surroundings but she would consider it to be a sign of intolerance. I know the not in my back yard and all that but really, she prides herself on her tolerance so though she might get upset for a time if she saw me dressed I am confident that she would get over it.

Like I said, one size does not fit everyone.

Totally agree with the OP. My BF and I have made this a big part of our relationship and I am most encouraging. But we had a good relationship to start with. But if he wanted to stop I could live with it but maybe miss it a bit. I have a shopping partner!

Wow, I was doing a multi quote thingy while reading but the list of got too long! I honestly enjoyed reading this whole thread, a whole lot of really good advice here, so here's my two cents; In trying to identify the crucial elements that led to my success in coming out to my wife three come to mind; we had a very solid relationship, I stressed how it would make me a better person, and I explained to her how she would benefit from my metamorphosis. My wife is open minded which obviously helps, but she still wanted to take things slowly so we did. As the days passed while she observed that everything I had promised her in my speech was slowly becoming a reality, she began to accept more and more to the point where only a couple of months later we're spending hours online shopping for clothes for each other and we're happier than we've ever been, honestly its like she's deep in the pink fog with me. I really hope I don't come off as braggy or anything, just wanted to help and demonstrate that it can succeed and become a happy reality, best of luck to everyone.

Oh and if you're just starting out in a new relationship just see Heather2die4's awesome strategy ;)

Our relationship was solid before I opened up to my wife. She didn't like it at first, but figured I was happier dressed. I can't say if she is supportive, but definitely tolerates it. When we go shopping she looks for me too, but there are some aspects she doesn't care for, boobs for example. I wear bras and forms around her, but she doesn't care for them. On the otherhand she told me I needed to buy a pencil skirt, something simple, business like, so I did. I wore it the other evening with a white men's shirt, pantyhose and black pumps, no bra or boobs. She liked it.

Nothing to add to your summation, but it is hard for me to buy into one size fits all. Different people have different life issues and to put everyone into one group would not fit. Just my opinion, but either way does not fit me, as I do not have an S.O.