When do you consider someone has transitioned gender? discuss

So I am aware that many if not most on here have no intentions of transitioning gender but that does not mean you havent a thought on the subject and I ask on this part of the forum as I feel it may differ slightly from posting in the transsexuals forum.So here goes

When can or does a person consider themselves to have transitioned. Does it require hormones? surgeries? ticking boxes such as name change etc? living full or part time .

Over the last 8-10 years I have involved myself in the trans community I have heard so many variations of what classifies as having transitioned often the individual views have emotional backgrounds some have lost so much and feel that only ticking every box constitutes an acceptable levels others are less demanding

For me there is social transitions medical transition and surgical transition I feel that most would expect the first and at least one of the next two to conform to society's view
But there is also the concept that every transition is individual and therefore only that person can declare when they have achieved their version of what it means

I do know for sure that for me its not about ticking boxes or how much you have had to suffer in personal loss I consider myself to have transitioned I live work and play as Jess but I have also many unticked boxes that will forever stay that way.and causes me no issue

Lets understand how the majority feel and if its even important?

I don't know about anyone else, but for me I like to keep it simple.

If a person I've always known as "John" in his day-to-day life, becomes "Jane" in the same circumstances - I guess that's good enough for me. She has transitioned.

Anything beyond that is simply a matter of determining to what type/flavor/extent/style of transition has occurred. And to be honest, unless I'm getting to know Jane really well, it doesn't really matter.

SaraLin:

Good answer

I know of individuals who live their lives entirely as women, but for reason of their own have decided against medical interventions. So far as they are concerned, they have transitioned. Social transition was necessary to meet their needs. Others may not find their needs satisfied by social transition. One persons transition does not invalidate anothers.

Jessicajane, I just assume it's up to the individual to determine when they have transitioned.

When they identify to me as such, and are consistent in that presentation/identification of themselves.

I agree with the responses others have given to this point. I don't think there is a clear cut state of being that constitutes transitioned. It is in the eye of the beholder and the beholder is the person who changed themselves to reach a more comfortable condition. I think we need to look at the purpose of the transition and not the visual characteristics of the transitioned person. If the purpose of the transition is to alleviate some of the many kinds of gender dysphoria then you have transitioned when that goal has been achieved.

Hormones and surgery may be necessary for some because of the nature of their dysphoria, otherwise, I believe, it is just inducing a state that is not natural for you so you can fit into a specific population. Nine years ago I considered transitioning (in the stereotypical sense) but ended up rejecting it because the nature of my dysphoria was to switch back and forth in more of a gender fluid way. I ended up deciding that I would spend a pile of money and potentially endanger my life to create more or less the reverse of what I was and am. Being fluid allowed me to manage the dysphoria that would sometimes develop when in female-like expression and a desire to switch back to male-like and visa-versa. So classic transitioning, for me, would simply flip the equation around. My therapist agreed. It is rare that I have looked back and wish I had gone the other way. So, for me, I have transitioned because experiencing severe dysphoria is a very rare event and easily mitigated. We are all different so I say seek that condition where you are comfortable and ignore the stereotypes.

2 ways to look at it for me. "Transition" can be to simply change from one to another. However, to me "Transition" on this subject has always meant to become a woman or male in every sense . If I'm asked are you trans or transitioned I would I would understand the question as having had the full surgery and all that comes with it. Obviously if I am dressed as a woman I've transitioned in my appearance.

If you, and I do, espouse the "you were born this way", you only transition externally, socially, visibly. Internally you are the gender in which you were born. No matter what gender you were assigned, or society forced you into. Your gender identification may evolve as you recognize and accept the real you. But the important gender, is the one in your heart.

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not to their own facts.
"Labels" become useless when everyone attaches their own definition to them, a practice that is, maddeningly, exceedingly common on this forum.

Many professional groups, who deal with transgender issues, recognize at least two types of "transition", medical and social, noting that there are often steps or stages along the way.

The trans community, by and large, defines "transitioned" as having come to the point where one is fully committed to living as one's authentic self. No part time. No slipping into "boy mode" when it's deemed convenient or necessary. As there are many who apply that term to themselves, despite having only some, or none, of the common steps in medical transition. We can see that, to them, the social transition is the yardstick by which they measure their "success". Make no mistake about the term "success". Social transition is, almost always, an extraordinary challenge. The reasons vary, but it is never easy. Most often it is tortuous; emotionally, financially and socially.

Attach your own definition to "transition" if you like. Just be prepared to be dismissed (at best) by those who know that it really means.

Good topic and some great answers to the questions. I also think it's up to each person how far the take it as far as medical procedures. But I can't offer an answer that's any better than those already given.

Transition, to me, is a matter of degree and differs for each of us. A lot depends on what each of our definition of transition is.

For me, transitioning by any definition means one thing: the conquering of fear.

I see a large change with my youngest daughters group , she is 20 and lives, works and plays in Los Angeles so you have this large non conservative microcosm of people that can , by and large , do what they want or present how they want without all the fear / judgement.

I notice alot of folks here live in places they feel restricted to do what they want .

She has many transfolk her age and around her age that she is friends with and while some will swap genders back and forth - sometimes with years in between - the one thing I noticed is a lack of desperation for surgical anything from any of them . Hormones maybe ,but more emphasis on external presentation seems to be satisfactory for most of them, at least the ones I spend time around . They seem to go by what Julie MA said . However they feel on the inside is who they are . They are more at ease with their sexuality also than alot of people here too so they just sort of go with the flow with no guilt or stressing on it .

Now I am not talking about the adult entertainment people ... they depend on their looks so varying degrees of surgical intervention goes on there but I am talking about everyday regular young people out and about in this region .

Kelly, You did not clearly state what transitioned means for you. Or, did I misread something?

To the OP,

I try not to argue semantics because what something means to one may vary for others. My thought process for transsexuals is that there is the physical, mental and social transition, and as Kelly states maybe different stages in between as one moves down the road. Physical, when one is on hormones and does or does not have any surgeries. It also includes presenting as one wants. Then you get that social transition where one lives the gender that they have inside their mind and learns and adapts some characteristics of the opposite gender. That could include presentation, such as clothes, makeup, growing one's hair out or cutting it shorter to fit how they want to present. It also means telling all what gender you are where necessary, changing names and gender on legal documents. The tricky one for me is the mental one. I have learned by my own ongoing transition that by opening my mind to be myself and accepting that and then telling family, friends and acquaintances has given me a new look on life, including being more open and honest with everyone, looking at many life situations from a broader viewpoint and be willing to explore life in a much more free and liberating manner.

At 74 years old, I am working on getting my last major physical transition procedure, which, in my opinion, will complete the physical changes that I have deemed necessary for me. My social transition has been pretty much complete after I came out and legally changed my name and gender and started living and presenting full time, i.e. no special moments to going back and presenting as my past gender, though I am still learning more about how to be a woman among both men and women. My mental transition is a work in progress because everything else has led me to an unexpected place in my life where I am learning so much more about life, about myself and about things that I had never experienced in the past. I am in a constant state of learning now and actually realizing that this is happening to me. I consider this as part of my transition because I believe this new life learning experience and process would never have had happened if I did not unexpectedly discover this other side of me and had the courage to pursue it slowly and deliberately with joy and no fear. I know that there will always be new things to learn socially and mentally/emotionally that will always be connected some way to my identity as a woman. I am ready for that and want that personal growth.

As far as what someone else does, it should not be influenced by what others think. If one declares themselves a woman or a man, that is good enough for me. They can still present as they wish, have all or none of the surgeries, take or not hormones, or do whatever else they want or do not want. Transition can still exist for them as they transition from male to female or the opposite in their minds, the most important place for transsexuals. The rest is not needed if they don't want it. Those that think differently are just imposing what they think is correct on others that they probably know nothing about. We need support and not criticism as to who we are. Others' opinions about that should be kept to themselves.

This will be an unpopular response, so I promise not to defend it when you don't like it.
As I see it, modern science cannot change the chromosomes that determine whether you are male or female, so anything you do to approximate it is merely crossdressing, or Extreme Crossdressing, especially if there are hormones or surgery in the mix. I have no problem with anyone who wants to live as the gender he or she isn't, but let's not deceive ourselves about what we are.

I said it, I'm done, you may now call me a jerk. But then I'm a guy, so that's obvious.

I present as a woman and the social awkwardness in interacting with other people has gone away.
I have no issues the the back and forth in conversation with men or women.
I realize that standards are different for men and women, so I spend the time necessary to look good.

Although I haven't done HRT or surgery, I have a petite hourglass figure which means that XS women's clothes fit me.
And, if you study men's clothing, there isn't anything for someone with a 25 inch waist above their belly button.

Marion

OAG,
Sex and gender are not the same. Sex is strongly correlated with chromosomes, and also physiologically with external characteristics. Gender has much to do with how the brain, and hormones, cause us to identify, and feel, like a man or a woman. You are not a jerk. An instigator, perhaps, who is narrowly focusing on the sex aspects, and not addressing the subject of this thread, the transition of gender.
Julie

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Originally Posted by OrdinaryAverageGuy

This will be an unpopular response, so I promise not to defend it when you don't like it.

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Good. We don't need to hear from anyone so ignorant of the clear facts around being somewhere on the TG spectrum. I only hope that you will try to educate yourself on the difference between gender and biology.

[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

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Originally Posted by AllieSF

Kelly, You did not clearly state what transitioned means for you. Or, did I misread something?

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I see you've missed my point about labels and convention...
I didn't provide my definition because there already is one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by OrdinaryAverageGuy

This will be an unpopular response, so I promise not to defend it when you don't like

I said it, I'm done, you may now call me a jerk. But then I'm a guy, so that's obvious.

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Well that is fine to describe yourself but you most certainly can NOT speak for other members.

In our life Sherlyn was always Sherlyn.
In my mind -Crossdressing is simply an activity.
In our life It was not an activity it was who she was.

Most importantly it is how you and your wife feel about it . Do not listen to those that tell you that is not the clinical definition…..they are no one in your life.

[QUOTE=Di;4543963]Well that is fine to describe yourself but you most certainly can NOT speak for other members.

As I said, I will not defend my opinion. Thank you Di for not censoring what I expected to be an unpopular one. I remind everyone that the OP said "discuss." Peace.

You seem to be asking for personal opinions so here is mine, like it or leave it.

In my opinion, a person has transitioned (M to F in this case) when he (she) has had upper and lower surgery and hair removal. Of course, one would assume that the person has also had a name change and is living and is known to others as a female. In my mind, a person cannot be a "female" if he has a penis.

I’m not here to argue, but there seem to be some here who seem to think there’s xx people who are born one gender and xy people who are born another gender. I would suggest you do a deep dive on sex, gender, and genetics before you settle your opinion on this false dichotomy.

Krisi, I’m curious of your opinion of intersex people. How do they fit into that worldview?

Sexing The Body by Anne Fausto-Sterling is a good readable and exhaustive study on the effects of chromosomes, hormones and the timing of fetal development. Reading it one comes away with the understanding that the gender binary is more convenience and lowest common denominator based than science based.


I personally know a person who is intersex. Her transition was from what her parents thought she was based on appearance, to what she knew she was, and was later proven to be based on her chromosomes.

As usual, we get the typical bell curve, from she is when she says she is to my way or the highway.

As for me, I say she is when she says she is. That allows her to go as far as she wants and still be comfortable. If someone yells me that they are trans, I'm not going to ask for a "show and tell" or a first hand inspection of the "parts" as proof.

I once read the story of a man who always had some feminine feelings. He was having a sharp abdominal pain and was sent to get an ultrasound to rule out kidney stones. When the medical tech did the ultrasound she found something completely unexpected: some female reproductive. So, how do you characterize "him". I think after the ultrasound, the true answer is intersex. But, what about before the ultrasound? Non-binary, trans, or what?

I think that the so called definitions don't work for all cases. Am I still trans female if I still visit my parents (or grandparents) "crossdressed" as a boy when I see them to avoid telling them?

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Originally Posted by Sometimes Steffi

Am I still trans female if I still visit my parents (or grandparents) "crossdressed" as a boy when I see them to avoid telling them?

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When you run into some of the 'you have to be exactly this way' gatekeeping even on sites about crossdressing it's absolutely understandable why someone might "crossdress" when dealing with certain people.

For me, gender is how you express yourself in the world and the concept of transitioning is very simple: you transition at that moment you decide to present in the world in a way that is different from your sex assigned at birth and that you are doing so because the gender in which you have lived does not match with your own gender. Transitioning is a journey and all journeys are of different lengths and happen at different speeds. The destination for one person can be completely different for another, and both are valid.

To my way of thinking transitioning is the journey one takes when changing sex completely by way of surgerery, nothing wrong with that at all. I think a preson who has transitioned is ?one who has gone the whole way with surgery; I also think that someone who spends ther entire time en femm and not in drab and has not, and is not interested in sex change surgery must be considered to be trans gender

Not sure I have anything to add to this thread. But it has been an interesting read. Thx OP. At the end of the day it's just labels, we are who we are.

My opinion surely doesn't count for much on this topic. In the end, I would just take someone's word on it if they say they have transitioned. Since I'm not a government agency, a doctor, or an insurance company, that should suffice.

I do think one's opinion on the overall topic is heavily influenced by one's age and the kind of media messaging we receive in our youth. When I was a young kid in the late 60's, early 70's, I was fascinated by the occasional news story of someone having a sex change, and fantasized about what it would be like if maybe someday I could do the same. But the sensationalistic messaging in those news stories always hyped up the utter rarity of such operations, the huge expenses, the necessity to live in some foreign country like Sweden for year or two, and the implied threat that your name and photo would be on the front page of every newspaper in the world and you'd be treated like a freak show if you went through with it. There was also the clear message in those stories that you weren't a woman until the operation... or even afterwards depending on what society decided you could be. So I can totally understand why some people my age or older are not so open-minded about any of it. They were trained that way.