Quandary from previous posts answers

In my previous (and first post here) I related a recent shopping experience, your answers (and responses I've seen in other places) have me wondering what the right way to proceed is.

1. I completely get the big NO NO of wearing the spouces clothes, especially without permission and in secret. I get it and understand the concept and idea. And agree cognitively, but practically can't seem to stay out of them.

2. I also received a lot of feedback warning against hiding clothes from my spouse when she ask me not to buy for myself. I have never done this until last week when I bought MY first dress but now I'm paranoid about having it and considering ditching it.

My question is - is the only option left to just not dress? She is completely against me having my own, she knows I occasionally dress in her things when the rare opportunity presents itself but has never said to stay out of them but certainly doesn't want me to dress. Not because I'm in her clothes but because she doesn't want me in women's clothes period. I think she just goes on as if it never happens. We wear same size so I don't stretch or wear out her stuff, so that helps her not know I have worn them. When I do wear them it's not for more than 10-30 mins because I'm terrified of being caught. I never do other things in them.

I'm guessing those are only two options.

As I said in my previous post - my wife is way more important to me than dressing is and if it was just that easy to not dress, well then I wouldn't be here would I, plus you know how that goes. Long story made longer - just thought I'd ask.

I do not think you should get rid of the dress. Is it at all possible to talk with your wife since she knows about this side of you.
All we can do is try and give advice based on what you are saying and how we may approach things. You listen and try and figure out how and if you wish to try whatever it is. Good luck!

We've had that conversation and it's a big NO!

My situation is similar to yours. I was out to my mother and had an alternative place to dress . That has now changed. Hence it?s either running the risk of hiding clothes or visiting a dressing and make over service. Haven?t tried the latter yet, but know it can be expensive.With most of the family still at home its not easy to find a practical solution.

Your 2 questions place you into a 'catch22' situation. If your wife knows about the crossdressing side of you, then you need to communicate with her about you getting your own clothes! I agree that it is not good to wear her clothes without her permission. If she is saying that she doesn't want you to buy for yourself, is she saying that she will buy clothes for you??? Is this some kind of putting you into a no win situation??? This site is full of individuals who quit several times, to only start up again. Marriage needs to be about win-win situations, you need to communicate and find a common middle where you both can win!

Like who here has not borrowed someone elses fem clothing, especially us older girls. I personally was a prolific borrower! And not ashamed to say so. And now we all got religion or something. Yeah it is better if you can go buy your own but if you cant. I say go for it. And do not get so scared of getting caught or hiding things. You need to think these things out and plan and check your plan. Plan the work and work the plan! Substitute dress for plan! Tell your wife she can wear your make clothing when ever she wants!

I'm a big one for full disclosure, hiding nothing on the part of both parties in situations like this. It does require being frank and upfront. I don't know if this would work for you, but I would say offer a proposal, including such items as you will make purchases but using only your own money and not family money. You will keep all your own clothing out of sight, but you will tell her where it is so as not to be sneaky about the whole thing. You will wear only your own things, never hers. You will not dress around her, she will never have to see you dressed unless she wishes to. You can add whatever other items to the proposal you wish, but indicate that is what you want to do and how you wish to proceed. This is not an ultimatum at all, nor should it be presented as one, just merely an indicator of what you want to do in this regard. Her reaction will tell you where she stands on all this, and there shall be nothing hiding - not her attitudes or yours. Then and only then will you be able to make an informed decision on how to move forward.

Got you covered!
(This is getting a lot of use this year)

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From what you have said, it seems plain that your spouse is pretty unaccepting about your dressing. Her not wanting you to get your own clothes might be her way to keep you from going further in this "peculiar pastime." It sounds like borrowing her clothes is a bigger no-no on this site than it is in your home.

I would suggest the following accommodation: Keep the dress you have, and avoid getting more. However, get your own underwear and nylons. Little stuff is easier to hide where she wouldn't look and would help you preserve her clothes from your scent. Since you are the same size, you could be really sneaky and buy her a dress all the while knowing that you would get to wear it.

Well, you have quite a dilemma on your hands. You can stay in a marriage and be unhappy and let your wife dictate what you do or you can stand up for yourself and demand a compromise. That would be the adult thing to do. You know darn well that the feeling to cross-dress will not go away and that sooner than later she will catch you, and the shit will hit the fan. The question is are you prepared to STOP cross dressing for the rest of your life?
I know I sound harsh but that is the reality. Marriage is a two way street and one person does not make all the rules. I'm sure you don't tell her how to dress and if you tried she would read you the riot act. Just my 2 cents. Hiding and lying is no way to live your life.

Peace & Love
Gerri

Jodi, in your previous thread you detailed your shopping experience. You mentioned that there was not a lot of women's clothing in your size, however this seems at odds with your assertion that you and your wife are the same size. Also you say you are a tall hairy dude. Is your wife also tall? I'm picking up some mixed messages here.

The store was kinda small and not a lot of inventory. I can wear a L or XL depending on brand, cut, etc- we are all aware of the sizing disparities in women's clothing. The issue was I found some dresses that they only had one or two of and none in my size - I did try on the L on those but were a tad small. The SA found some dresses that I like that were my size but most were just a tad short for a 6-4 tall guy. That one dress was awesome though. They had a lot of skirts I liked but they were only available in the plus sizes and didn't have anything smaller than a 16 - which were a touch too big because I tried those on. She buys some longer dresses that fit me well and her skirts as well. There are some things I don't fit me and I never try to squeeze into anything. She wears a 12 to 14 and some L to XL things.... hope that helps.

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Originally Posted by Majella St Gerard

Marriage is a two way street and one person does not make all the rules.

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That is wishful thinking when it comes to crossdressing. Especially the one way street of undisclosed prior to the wedding kind of crossdressing. She gets to make all the rules, or her lawyer will. lol.

Since she already knows about your dressing in her clothes and seems at least somewhat....tolerant, do you feel she would be open to a joint counseling session or two in order to help find some common ground?

Hi Jodi. I think I’m a bit concerned about the way you are phrasing things. I am wondering what it means when your wife says you cannot have clothes of your own? What would happen if you simply hang the dress in your closet and left it there? What would be the consequences? (I’m not, at the moment, suggesting you do this. Call it a thought experiment).

U discussed "giving dressing up". But, if u feel u must dress then u must tell your SO! Work out a "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" arrangement that works for both of u!:thumbsup:

Remember, she doesn't have to like it. Just as u won't living with dressing boundaries. But, that's how marriages survive. Compromise fairly!:straightface:

I think many wives are totally lacking knowledge of what cross dressing is and isn't. It seems there is the "Are you gay? Do you want to transition? Am I not enough for you?" The list goes on and on. Maybe a little education can go a long way. Is the wife horrified family and friends will find out and her life, as she knows it, will be over?

I think many wives would want their husbands to suffer in mental anguish rather than relenting to some degree. Wearing a wife's clothing is a no-no. That can have explosive consequences. I would not buy a dress in her size as a present, even if you do not wear it, because she'll probably accuse you of buying it so you can wear it on the sly.

I think a wife, establishing some acceptable boundaries allows her to have some control over her husband's shopping. I think ultimately the sneaking around will get worse because the unsatisfied need is not being met. Years ago my wife told me it was "alright for you to go fishing, but don't expect me to clean it."

Anyway, encourage her to get educated.

I do agree with everyone who says it IS a big NO NO to wear your wife's clothes without permission.

That brings up your quandary of not being able to buy your own clothes. Many women have never heard of CDers (I realize this may be hard for CDers to grasp). I get the feeling that your wife doesn't know how much dressing means to you. You wouldn't be asking these questions if you could simply forget about it and not dress at all.

That leaves you with the advice that Stephanie gave, talk more about your feelings of why you like to dress and how you feel if you can't. Then educate her about YOU. She needs to know those things. If you don't know yourself, then how can she know? Are you "miserable" if you can't dress? Or can you take it or leave it? Possibly during any subsequent talk, you could work out some arrangement to dress privately. You also need to find out what her objection is to your dressing in private? Her just saying "No" does not mean a future conversation is not possible.

It's not an easy concept for some women who find out that some men, especially their man, likes to dress in women's clothes. To some, clothes are just body covering and they don't understand why a man would care about wearing a woman's body covering. Explain how you feel inside.

Angela, I love that meme.
Jodi, If it helps, with my ex-wife, I hid my stuff in with her stuff in a closet which she rarely went into.

I think some blend of what Char and Kris said regarding communication. And when it comes to communication it is important to emphasize the feelings aspect and not focus just on facts. To some extent appeal to her senses of empathy, sympathy, and compassion. Explain how it FEELS to not be able to dress, at least for a little while, every so often. Explain how it FEELS when you are able to dress.

Plus, seeing as how you can wear some of her clothes because you are of similar size, there is the matter of share and share alike. You can get your own clothes and she would be welcome to wear something of yours that suits her.

It seems to me the communication is very one sided and she is using that as a kind of weapon to control your behaviors. There is nothing wrong with you allowing that to happen so long as you fully accept that, but it is apparent that full acceptance of that is not there. Basically, following a one-way street is not bad if it is accepted, but having a two-way street is a great deal better - it allows for sharing. There are a lot of good suggestions in many of the responses to your quandary. Only you know your wife and the kinds of approaches that she reacts positively to. There is a solution, but I am sure communication is a large part of finding it.

Quite often, the recommendation is "communication", however, some wives know but do not want to see. "See" means no talking, doing or anything regarding CD. Purge and quit, purge and quit. How many times has that happened only to succumb to the pink fog....again and again. For me (as I can only speak for myself and my experience), the pink fog WILL return. This is a reality that must be faced and dealt with individually. There is no good answer if your SO does not want to "see". My humble opinion.

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Originally Posted by Jodi79

We've had that conversation and it's a big NO!

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Jodi,

Did your SO articulate why she doesn't want you to dress? Is it possible she sees it as wrong but without really knowing why? Either that or the reasons are based on old social beliefs that have their roots back in the day when Gays were afraid to come out in public.

I've had experience of debating similar issues with folks and you get the "Because it's wrong" reply. Ask, "Why is it wrong?" and often the answer you get it is "Because it is". Press them to expand the why and they're lost for an answer. Old societal norms become deeply embedded in peoples psyche, a set of rules that they struggle to justify when asked. Ask for 10 reason why it's wrong and they're stuck to give even 1 reply.

The problem is when you do this, people often become ever more defensive. Folks find it hard to admit they got this wrong or can't justify their long held beliefs. Less aggressive as asking what. "What is it you don't like about me dressing". You still might get the "because it's wrong" answer but then that leads into "In what way wrong".

If, by your own admission, you can't stop dressing then it's either carry on and take the risk of getting caught and being prepared for the fallout or find a way to reopen the conversation but have your side of the debate fully mapped out in your mind first. "No I'm not Gay" "I don't want to become a woman". All these things are likely to arise. The other side of the coin is of course she could ask, "Well why do you want to dress?" so you need an answer to those sorts of questions.

I understand, "Discuss it with your wife", but that didn't work for me.

I bought my own clothes and hid them. My wife respects my privacy, so they're not hidden very well. I found ways to dress and go out and about. I've dressed in bathrooms and in my car and gone out to meet like minded friends. I also have like minded friends who have let me dress at their place.

Finally, the stress of hiding got the best of me and we had a discussion and set up boundaries. I just got back from 4 days at Keystone, all girl, all and and all night. But, my wife has never seen me dressed, even in a picture, and she has never seen any of my clothes.

My only other suggestion if you feel you are stuck in between dressing in her clothes but not buying your own clothes, or not dressing at all is this: Go to thrift stores, try on all the clothes that you want to but don't buy anything. Maybe that will satisfy your need to dress.

I wonder (and please correct me if I'm wrong) if we can be a bit naive when we seem certain that it can be "talked out," as if through logic and information we can convince an unaccepting spouse that our cross-dressing is alright. What if their response is based on emotion, much like our desire to dress is based on feelings? That said, it is worth the attempt more often than not.

My wife once HATED my dressing, and refused to talk about any aspect of it. She would, infrequently, ask questions like "Do you want to become a woman?" or "Are you gay?" or make comments like "I'm not a lesbian"

Borrowing or sneaking into the wifes clothes is always a very bad idea, even if they fit. Everybody in this forum advises open communications with the spouse, and I agree in principle. But what do you do when the spouse goes silent, and I mean DEAD silent? My solution was to go on dressing as I pleased, in the hope that she would see nothing bad happens when I'm in a dress.

That is what worked for me. Eventually, my wife started to make comments, like "I like that sweater on you." or "I prefer to see you in a skirt, rather than a dress, and I like longer skirts better than short ones." I honored those few comments by making my choices based on her opinions. Now, she sees me dressed every day and acts as if it's not a big deal. Only one piece is missing. She refuses to go out in public with me while I'm dressed.

[QUOTE=Karren Hutton;4581401]Like who here has not borrowed someone elses fem clothing, especially us older girls. I personally was a prolific borrower! And not ashamed to say so. And now we all got religion or something. Yeah it is better if you can go buy your own but if you cant. I say go for it. And do not get so scared of getting caught or hiding things.

You need to think these things out and do what you have to do, I feel sorry for people in these situations. There is no cure or remedy short of honesty and steadfastness. If you don't take care of your needs you sure can't take care of hers. Understanding the needs of both is the key for me. But there is no negotiation in my house, I do what I want and she does what she wants and we go on....

You have a MAJOR stumbling block in your marriage. You need to discuss and resolve it.
Find a reputable marriage therapist who also deals with gender issues. Once you find out your wife?s fears of you dressing you may be able to alleviate those fears and find compromise for you to dress.

This if you want to end your marriage (and crossdress all you like once single):

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Yeah it is better if you can go buy your own but if you cant. I say go for it. And do not get so scared of getting caught or hiding things.

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Got you covered!
(This is getting a lot of use this year)
- Picture of a secret stash in a storage box -

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This if you'd like to stay married (and crossdress within boundaries discussed with your wife):

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Originally Posted by Stephanie47

Wearing a wife's clothing is a no-no. That can have explosive consequences. [...]
I think a wife, establishing some acceptable boundaries allows her to have some control over her husband's shopping. I think ultimately the sneaking around will get worse because the unsatisfied need is not being met. [...]
Anyway, encourage her to get educated.

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Originally Posted by char GG

That leaves you with the advice that Stephanie gave, talk more about your feelings of why you like to dress and how you feel if you can't. Then educate her about YOU. She needs to know those things. If you don't know yourself, then how can she know? Are you "miserable" if you can't dress? Or can you take it or leave it? Possibly during any subsequent talk, you could work out some arrangement to dress privately. You also need to find out what her objection is to your dressing in private? Her just saying "No" does not mean a future conversation is not possible.

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Don't hide. Talk to your wife.

Unfortunately I think you're learning what it takes to be in a relationship and sharing everything with your spouse. Now that you haven't shared everything, you're seeing the consequences. I hope you are able to work this out. Early on I saw this potential conundrum if I hid it and figured the best answer was they knew immediately like as soon as I could tell them when we first started talking. that way no time was wasted on either part if it was a factor and it was no longer a secret if it wasn't an immediate deal-breaker.

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Originally Posted by GretchenM

Explain how it FEELS to not be able to dress, at least for a little while, every so often. <snip>

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Perhaps this will help: The best way I could describe it, was to say it was like an itch that I couldn't scratch; and the longer I went between dressing up, the more irritating the feeling would become, until it interfered with my being able to concentrate on anything else, or even be able to sleep. I would become irritable, short tempered, and suffer from short term memory loss as it got worse and worse, until all I could think about, was dressing up as a girl.

Does anyone else have any other way to express the feeling of needing to crossdress?

Sometimes_miss in my case not an itch but a kind of sadness when I can't take care of this side of me for a long time. When I finally can, Its like watering a plant that had been left drying in a corner of the house. Something thrives again and I feel balanced.

Reading your posts I think I sense a lot of fear. Both in your wife and in you. Sometimes fear has to be recognized and brought into the open and addressed before progress can be made. Maybe you could ask your wife what she fears in your CDing? Ask yourself that question too. That approach helped me at one time. .. vale