Degrees of Transition, Honesty and Confessions

When you think you have this all figured out, just give it a while.

I've thought about this for a long time. A recent post in the Loved Ones section where the husband said he was not interested in transition is the impetus to this thread.

I, too, said I'd never transition. Meant it. Still mean it. Transition to me meant hormones, surgeries, name change, and living the rest of my life completely as a woman. Now I think that to say "I'll never transition" with that being the bar is a bit disingenuous. Hear me out.

At the height of all this for me I had hair down to the middle of my back. I had been shaved all over for decades. I had very long natural nails (having had acrylics that were shorter). I had worn panties for decades. I was wearing a bra (no forms) every day in male mode. I incorporated a lot of mostly undetectable women's clothes into my daily wardrobe. I weighed 135#. I went out of town at least once a month to do my girl thing (often incorporated into work trips). I got my nails done every 6 weeks and got a polish change (cheaper than a full manicure even if you're not wearing polish) ever time I went out of town, and got my hair done more often than that. I got my brows waxed and tinted about every other month. I had a wardrobe probably 5X that of my wife, with everything ranging from hooker to debutante to Sunday School teacher and none of it was hidden. I had a ton of makeup and every type of hair appliance from curlers to curling irons and straighteners right there on the bathroom counter and underneath. I slept in a nightgown every night. I thought I had femininized my everyday appearance right up to the edge of not looking like a normal male anymore, but I'm sure I had passed that line. I had people (hairdressers, nail techs, SAs, makeup consultants that knew me only as a "female", others who knew me as "transitioning", and a couple who knew I was "only a crossdresser". Oh, no, I was not transitioning!!

Why in the world would I want to transition? If I fully transitioned, my girl side would inherit all the problems, trials and tribulations (and then some) of real life! I was, in a very real way, my own mistress. My mistress had no worries. No responsibilities, no family to be concerned about, no job, no bills, no household chores. What a life, right? My male side provided for all her wants and needs. She got a little mini vacation once a month. She indulged in all the salon experiences she loved. Hair, nails, facials, makeovers... and my male side paid for all of it. She was high maintenance. All she had to worry about was looking good, and that's all she wanted to worry about.

Still, I could honestly say I'm NOT transitioning. I'm sure the TS members here would agree because I stopped at the really difficult and painful part. My friends and co-workers probably thought I looked a little weird, but nobody thought I had transitioned. At the time I didn't think I was being dishonest, and technically I wasn't.

I used to give myself big pats on the back because I didn't hide anything, meaning I didn't hide any of my stuff. Really, I hid plenty. I hid the fact that there were quite a few people who knew me as Rhonda, that some of these thought I had already transitioned. Some of them thought I was dating men. Some of them thought I was completely out to everyone including work and family. I didn't talk about how I felt about being out and about as a woman and how accepted I was. I didn't talk about how thrilling it felt to wear the more daring things. I never talked about being approached by men, sometimes terrifying, sometimes butterflies. I didn't think it mattered, since I didn't do anything. I never told her about going to a support group meeting. I never told her about frequently getting my hair done during the week and washing it out before she got home. I never told her how much I loved just sitting under the drier with my hair in giant rollers or that my hairdresser was my confidant and a good friend. I never told her how it went straight to my core when a stranger called me ma'am, or when an SA asked me if I wanted to try on a dress

I was honest about what I'd done and where I'd been, if she asked (with a couple of notable exceptions). I was so proud of myself for being out in the open about it, but if half truths are half lies, I was a liar.

Most of this self-critical stuff I could only see in my rear view mirror. When I was so caught up in it, I could not see the forest for the trees.

I bet I'm not alone. I considered myself an honest person. Still do. But I carried around a shit ton of stuff that I just didn't divulge. There's more than this. A lot of what I carried (carry) around is more intensely personal, private, and embarrassing than what I let on. I didn't (don't) want to be dishonest, but I fear judgement. I still think I can be an honest person if I'm hitting the 90% mark. I know Miel and Diane will vehemently disagree. Surely everybody holds back something, don't they? It's just that mine has to do with this particular subject. So, I guess being honest about being dishonest isn't honesty.

Food for thought. YMMV.

Wow! There's a lot to think about in your post. I feel confident that lies are only significant if they are said to change another's mind about something that affects them. Everybody, to some degree or other, lies. It may be to protect another person's feelings. It may be to avoid an awkward or difficult conversation. It could be for any one of a thousand reasons. Often times people will claim another has lied to them by the act of omission. Does that mean we need, in order to be 100% honest, come out of the closet to everyone? No! There are things in our lives that simply are not the business of others. In my case, the only person affected by my CDing is my wife. With her, I truly do try to be 100% honest. At times, it takes me a bit longer to tell her something; but, I do tell her within a reasonable timeframe. Have I lied because I've not told my family or friends? No. My CDing has no effect on their lives in any way. I've also never shared the first thing about our (my wife and mine) sex life. It has no bearing on their lives. Some things are meant to be private. If someone were to ask me about our sex life, or asked if I had ever thought to CD, my reply would be simple and direct to the point - "I don't believe that is something I care to share with you."

Everyone lies and all couples that remain together must eventually go thru the "tunnel of chaos" according to the preacher who married me and my ex.:doh:

If u haven't experienced that yet, Rhonda Jean, it's probably coming!:sad:

I find your post to be a good test. After reading it nearly everyone will more clearly understand if they r trans or simply a CD like I obviously am now. As I stopped worrying about most the things u mentioned many years ago.:heehee:

All the best in your journey!:thumbsup:

If you don't want to live your life, the rest of your life, as a woman, then don't transition. You don't want to, and that's OK. Clothes, makeup, HRT, surgery... none of those things are "degrees of transition", so you're not being dishonest if you do any of those things and can't commit to living the rest of your life as a woman.
My transition is in a holding pattern, mostly because of career and financial issues. I am fem >90% of the time, but it doesn't really help. I'm tired of pretending to be male. Every time I have to interact with a business, a doctor, anyone, using my dead name, I die a little. All the clothes, makeup and medical interventions in the world won't help with that. If you can get by at that level, count your blessings.

For clarity, the peak of all this for me is WAY behind me. I'm not 10% of what I once was, trans-wise.

I'll throw out another little tidbit. I'm a better person for having done it to such an extent even if I never revealed any of it to anybody. I had my day and I'm glad I did. I've been out more in the last few months than I have in years. I still enjoy the anticipation of it. The actual going out is certainly not what it once was, but I'm coming along. Still, afterward I wonder if it was worth all the trouble. I'm working on that.

You did your thing and enjoyed it nothing wrong with that.
Don't worry about not telling anyone about dressing because its none of their business.
Trans ,CD whatever you want to call it there are no rules.
I decided what was best for me was to go 24/7 365 and I am glad I did. Got the top surgery but don't plan on the bottom too risky in my case.
99% of my friends have only known me as I am now so I don't have to explain anything, and I got tired of that long ago.
Saying you are trans now is kind of a stain you can't get rid of because of the trans activist that start trouble.

Hi Rhonda,
My first impression is that...I'm impressed by the amount of self-reflection. Good for you for being honest with yourself.
Was it worth the trouble? I think so if it means you learned something about yourself. Sometimes we don't know until we try it.
I hope you don't beat yourself up over this. We can't change our past, and we must live without ourselves for the rest of our lives. Forgive yourself.
I hope you find peace.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts - a valuable post

Throw this entry into your journal and as the adage goes, only thing in life is consistent, is change.

Gosh, I know just the insult to hurl at you: you're sane.

Sane in the sense that you know that even in 2023 people still judge harshly about gender transgressions and read into those transgressions all sorts of unrelated baggage.
Such as "your trans because you're a leftist", your femininity is a mockery of a GG's femininity, this is mental illness, etc, etc.

The feelings that you, I, and hundreds (thousands?) here all share are intense and undeniable and didn't arise because we chose them. And this sense of being feminine even though biologically male occurs in all cultures and has all the hallmarks of a physiological condition that is present in X percentage of males (and is probably an inherited gene/s).

I too carry those same memories and desires that I am still unable to share with even my closest friends or lovers because as open minded as they claim to be, I've observed how harshly they can judge others that violate their personal norms.

There's no question that I can open up with and share the most with other transgender people like myself.

Be a little bit easy on yourself about not sharing everything with someone you love. You are a perceptive person, and you can accurately gauge how someone will react to something that is not part of their everyday world. We have enough friction in our lives as it is, and the opprobrium that someone close to you can throw at you isn't something you need.

You're trying to live your best life with desires that don't fit any of the playbooks we've been given. You're not being selfish.

You're sane (there's that insult again), and you're engaging life while making intimate connections and offering kindness to others. It is a huge effort with this weight upon us.

Rhonda, I think about my crossdressing all the time and where I would like to take it and who I am. What ifing ourselves is always a good thing.

So much to wrap my head around in the OP. It seems to me, by your actions, the lengths you went with your presentation of self, that you were pretty honest in the sense that actions speak loudly. There may have been a few omissions along the way, but nothing substantive. You came as close to transition as you felt you needed. You were yourself. Perhaps you were conflicted, but that is not dishonesty.

What a beautiful post, Rhonda. In my view, the term "transition" is a very vague concept. Transitioning tends to be in the eyes of the beholder, including the eyes of the one who is transitioning. That throws a real big monkey wrench into the entire concept. We live in as society where gender is, for the most part, a binary concept and therefore we tend to think in terms of categories with clear boundaries whether those boundaries exist in Nature or not. Thus what constitutes transition is actually individualized, yet we deal with it as if it is some objective, well defined state of being.

However, gender, in fact, has little to do with a person's sex which is binary and far more to do with a person's concept of who they are and what their role(s) are in the social structure they live within. Thus gender becomes more a matter of behavior than appearance. But what behaviors constitute feminine or masculine? That is very difficult to define but is at the root of gender definition and "performance." It is some kind of an ideal that few ever actually fit, whatever their sex is.

I greatly appreciate your honesty and openness. I think it is a sign of a person who has a very mature and realistic view of their own gender identity and how it works in them. And then they live it to the extent they find possible in a society that is often not accepting of such a lack of clear definition as to what you are. I think such a state of being is what many of us are trying to achieve - a natural and comfortable blend of male-like and female-like behaviors that allows us to function in a flexible way within a society that tends to be far more polarized and focused on a concept of gender = sex and vice versa than we are or are attempting to be.

In that sense, transition is leaving behind the idealized male or female behavior patterns and embracing the blended patterns that allows us to deal with the world we encounter in a personalized fashion that avoids polarization. In the current state of our society, that can be viewed as a bit weird, but it is an example of the kind of behavior that allows for peaceful interaction on many different emotional levels that does not create polarization of opinion and attitude. You say, "I still think I can be an honest person if I'm hitting the 90% mark." Ya betcha and congratulations! That allows you to embrace the most honest you.

If you observe people you will find that somewhere in what they say or do you will get strong indications that they are simply adapting to what is considered fashionable and appropriate for the times and thereby constraining their individuality into social conformity which is so poisonous to individuality. Doing what is fashionable because it is fashionable is turning yourself into an automaton in a highly diverse world. Chimps don't even do that. I love your post.

RhondaJean, either I missed it but one thing seems to be absent from you description: identity. As far as I know, the only reason why one transitions to female is if one identifies as female. There are all shades of transitioning, and many degrees, but while you may do a lot of things a MtF trans person may do too (female hair styles, clothes, etc.), does that alone make you a trans person, I think not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean

I still think I can be an honest person if I'm hitting the 90% mark. I know Miel and Diane will vehemently disagree.

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Haha I didn't know Miel and I ran a cult of 100% transparency extremists. It's always funny and instructive to see the image you send back, because I thought that I never pressured people doing it, I just suggested they should think about it if they wanted a sane relationship and stop worrying about ticking bombs waiting to explode at the least convenient time. I know that many GGs in the Ask-A-GG threads explain that full honesty is the recommended way to go. I sure can't blame anyone for not sticking to the recommendation since I lied myself to my wife for no less than 36 years, and used to strongly believe in what I called "having a secret garden" that you may not necessarily want to share even with your soulmate. So I have some trust to restore and a lot to be forgiven, and to better my chances of success decided to follow the GGs advice and switch to 100% transparency, something I never believed I could do before coming out. In the process I eventually disclosed a lot of things to my wife (not necessarily related to CDing, like some unrelated sexual fantasies). Was it difficult? Yes. Some troubled my wife. But I think the gain was (is, will be) worth the price. I don't say everyone needs to do it, each situation is unique. But if you have trust to restore, I think the odds will look better if you stop keeping secrets. Again, I have trust to restore so I am biased in the matter.
Note that I am only talking about transparency with your wife or SO, for the rest of the world that is a different talk.

On a more general level, and irrelevant to my lying and CDing etc., I also turned around about the "secret garden" topic after reading a lot of GG comments here (I basically rummaged through all the Ask-A-GG ones and then some). They made me realize one thing: when you keep your wife (or SO) in the dark, you are the one pulling the strings. You are deciding what is important to her and what isn't. You are somehow treating her like a non-grown up, in the sense that you decide what is best for her (which if we are honest often turns out to really be what is best for the CDer), what she needs or doesn't need to know (which by mere coincidence will generally fit the CDer's plans for having things his way). And, most importantly, you are taking away her free will by building a fictional world around her, one where her husband doesn't CD, or doesn't go out, or doesn't try to seduce males, etc. This, I would call the real "pink fog"... the alternate reality that a CDing husband shrouds his wife with. My wife, if she had known about the CDing when we met, or before we married, or when we decided to come back together after our breakup, could have chosen to not pursue her adventure with me. But I deceived her and trapped her in the process. After the reveal she decided to stay with me. But she will forever have this "what if" pending, and forever won't be able to answer what her life could have been if all the cards had been laid on the table. This will taint our relation durably.

Thanks for all the kind responses. I'd been kicking that around for a while and didn't know quite what to do with it. Keep in mind this question that we've all been asked. Are you going to transition? The quick answer is likely no, as was mine. I think maybe the question and the answer misses the point. I come back to what I've said many times. Telling someone you're a crossdresser really doesn't define anything. Likewise, telling someone you won't transition doesn't say how far you'd like to or plan to take it. I don't have an answer for that. I'm only pointing out the lack of clarity. By the same token, I don't think anybody early in their journey would think they're going to end up like I was and I don't think that many spouses would hang around if they knew that's where it was headed. I think it's in our nature (it certainly is mine) to always be reaching for that next rung on the ladder. Over a period of time you've climbed way up the ladder. In the spouse's case, you've heard the one about boiling a frog.

This is all fun and games until it's not. A lot of us have experienced the "not". I'm all thoughtful and mature now that it doesn't matter. When it did matter I probably would have skipped over a post like this from one of the "old ladies". I was preoccupied with the same shit that is repeated on this board ad nauseum, and frankly I'd rather be joining in on some of that now. I have no answers for anybody. I just keep coming up with more questions. I hope that boards like this and posts like this make coming along more thoughtful when it does count. This is a great resource that I didn't have until I was almost 50, and by that time I'd already made quite a mess of things, but had one hell of a time doing it. I promise you I thought I had more answers then than I do now.
I'm no shrink, but I think it's important to take a reflective pause every now and then.


Stepping down (once again) from my soapbox.

PS. Another gazette for you, Diane!

[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

Diane,
I was writing my most recent post when you posted yours, so I didn't see yours until after I posted.

I'm (probably surprisingly) going to challenge the total honesty thing (at the almost 100% risk of drawing the ire of the GGs on this board who I love, including Miel). There's more to you and to me than the fact that we like to wear dresses. More important things, in my opinion. The real fear is that when one of us comes out, the only thing the wife sees is the dresses (using that as a convenient descriptor). Whatever you've done, no matter how good of a person, provider, husband, father, son, neighbor, employee, what-have-you you've been, it's entirely obscured by the dressing. You can never live it down, never outrun it, and it'll haunt your relationship forever, if there's a relationship left to haunt. There's the rub, and every one of us in a relationship knows it. As empathetic as I try to be, I do not understand how everything goes out the window over dressing up. Not holding myself up as an example here. I DO see how/why mine blew up, but that's kind of an extreme case.

Was your secret garden causing some kind of a problem beyond the fact that you felt guilty for having one? I think of myself as an honest person, but I've got a warehouse full of skeletons that keeps me from being totally forthcoming about everything to ANYBODY. There is not a single person on the planet that knows all my secrets. I've got some whoppers, and all of them center around this one subject. How I handled it, how far I took it, the lengths I went to feed it... you could make a pretty good case that that DID make me a bad person. For someone not so desperate and motivated, I don't thing so.

Rhonda in my case the main issue wasn't the "dress", it was, by and large, the lying. Of course the "dress" can be frightening for a wife. Is he gay? Will he transition? Will he abandon me? But a wife can handle this. The problem is when you add the lying. How can you believe a person that hid so much from you when you were so close to her, when she says "I won't transition. I won't leave you". You can't. And what was hard to swallow becomes an infinite distress. And you begin questioning all the rest, questioning all your life. What was real? What was illusion? Everything is tainted, your memories, your life, all stolen from you.
Lying is the big issue. At any rate it was for my wife.

I don't think lying makes you a bad person. I just wanted to explain the consequences it had for my couple, consequences which I never anticipated. I don't think I am a bad person, but in retrospect I realize how much I wronged my wife. It's good to be aware of that. I feel guilty about it, but I also feel that acknowledging it was necessary for me (and for my wife) to advance in my life. I gave the red pill to my wife by coming out, but as it turned out I got one for me as well.

P.S. Thanks for the gazettes. We will certainly renew our subscription.

I get that it was the lying, but it was the lying about crossdressing. I know I'm fighting a losing battle here. BTDT. I'm going to throw it out there anyway and run for cover.

If there's a more difficult truth to tell, I don't know what it'd be. Cutting through the BS here, I don't care if you (not you specifically) look like Pamela Anderson, you're still a guy, and as a guy there just can't be anything harder to admit to than this. Those questions that invariably get asked, you've asked yourself a thousand times. You were likely taught that this is an abomination, a perversion, sick. And if that's not bad enough it's also hysterically funny and embarrassing to the highest degree. You're likely ashamed, even though you tell yourself there's nothing to be ashamed about. You think of all the applicable taunts. Sissy, pansy, fag, tranny. You fear rejection, and you fear that after the rejection she'll tell every body she knows and everybody you know. You're afraid you'll get fired from your job and the story will follow you as you try to find another, and you can't move far enough away to get away from it. If you don't get fired, all your coworkers are going to know and you'll be an outcast. Your neighbors will find out and you'll be shunned. Your parents will find out, and all your old friends. The story will still be hanging around when you try to begin another relationship. When you eventually have kids the story will still be circulating and it'll get back to your kids and your kid's friends, then your kids will be the subject of taunts and humiliation.

Yet by about the third date if not sooner you're supposed to tell somebody "By the way, I'm a crossdresser!" Even if you did that, what does that tell them anyway? This is a minefield. So you didn't tell up front and you missed the deadline for "before getting serious". When you do tell do you get cut any slack because it's something so deeply personal, scary, and shameful that it took years to work up the courage and the trust so that you can finally tell something with such enormous risk?

I began experimenting with a few pieces of clothing just before my ex and I split up. During our divorce she threatened to expose me in court.:eek:

Where upon I told her if she did I would tell about all the times she cheated on me. Then, I ordered my attorney NOT to mention that in court. And, she asked me why not?:sad:

I never told her, for the reasons u explained so well, Rhonda Jean!:sad:

Lying to protect yourself, and not serve selfish interests is noble.

It's 1943, you have false papers for you and your family to travel from Berlin to Spain. The Berlin ticket agent asks "Are you a Jew?"
Is it important to tell the truth to murderers, or protect your family.

Our stakes aren't as high, but they're real and the consequences painful.
That's why I don't have a lot of sympathy for people who say it's about the lying when their reaction is exactly as predicted which is why the lying occurred in the first place.

RJ, you're now in a place where you can be your authentic self. Surround yourself with people who accept you. Avoid the people who are judgement of you. There is a lot of fun to be had with being feminine. Think about it: getting glammed up when you want to, being appreciated by someone who admires you, playing with different looks and finding one that fits, etc.
Accentuate the positive.
Just avoid getting involved with people you can't be honest with.

You'll be surprised how different it is to involved with someone who actually encourages you to be yourself.

Rhonda Jean; Oh My God! You put all of my fears to words. All I can say is thank you, somehow you know me/us better than I know myself. Thank you so much... Brenda

Rhonda said "Whatever you've done, no matter how good of a person, provider, husband, father, son, neighbor, employee, what-have-you you've been, it's entirely obscured by the dressing."
While I agree with much of what you've said, I don't quite agree with that. At least not totally. 2 of my kids, and a few of their friends, know that I sometimes wear skirts and cami's. I think a couple of the young men who work for me suspect that I sometimes wear strange things, and I've had a few comments on my colorful socks and racerback tanks that I wear to work. But I'm a good boss and I tried to be a good dad, and they respect me for that. So other than a very few jokes now and then, which are carefully made low-key, I hear nothing. Now I know there are limits, if I were to show up at the construction site in a mini skirt, fishnets, and heels along with a filled C-cup, all bets would be off. But I do believe that if you've earned respect the people close to you will forgive a few oddities.

Not all, my mom would heave in disgust if she saw me in a tank with lace. But most.

For clarity, the "whatever you've done..." section was meant to be how a wife might see it obscured. People who aren't intimate with you like coworkers or even kids in some case, yea, you might overcome that. Being married to somebody raises the bar, as it should.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean

But I carried around a shit ton of stuff that I just didn't divulge. There's more than this. A lot of what I carried (carry) around is more intensely personal, private, and embarrassing than what I let on. I didn't (don't) want to be dishonest, but I fear judgement. I still think I can be an honest person if I'm hitting the 90% mark. I know Miel and Diane will vehemently disagree. Surely everybody holds back something, don't they? It's just that mine has to do with this particular subject. So, I guess being honest about being dishonest isn't honesty.

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I know your story and I remember how devastated you felt after she left. :hugs:

I just want to say that I've been in two relationships. In the first one, I kept some of myself hidden. But not in my current one, no matter how ashamed I am of myself sometimes - ashamed of my faults, ashamed of not measuring up to my own ideals. I know that he will accept me as I am and he loves me, perhaps not despite of who I am but BECAUSE I am who I am, warts and all.

And I cannot begin to explain the freedom and peace of mind this gives me. Full self-acceptance is a wonderful thing.

Yep. Well... Thank you!

You bring up an important side effect of this thing we do. I, and I'm sure most of us, learn concealment at an early age. Not one person ever in my whole life has ever known EVERYTHING about me. It's a pattern of behavior that is very deeply ingrained in me. I can't imagine what the freedom must feel like to have that one person in your life who knows every nuance of you right down to your soul and loves you even more! My mother came close, but things (and I) were simpler then. My wife was close. Very close in the beginning, then as time went on there was more I just couldn't talk about.

When I was a kid there were things my mother allowed, but I'd ask her to not tell my dad. Sometimes she didn't. I certainly kept a lot of things from my friends, or everybody other than my mother, really. When my wife and I were dating, there were things I asked my mother not to tell her. She told her everything, and was a valuable confidant to my wife. Of course, nobody at work has ever known much about me at all. I've never had a friend who knew me on any kind of a deep level. The closest I've ever come to that was the lady who was my hairdresser for a long time. But, she knew more about "this" aspect of me but she didn't know where I worked or lived, etc.. It's not like she was coming over to the house. Even the people I was/am out to, I don't think any of them have ever seen me in male mode. Only a couple even know I have a male mode. The point is, I grew up being comfortable about lying about it, or at least not telling the whole truth, and that's always been acceptable to me. That being comfortable about lying doesn't extend to other parts of my life. It's just this part, but this is a big part. I don't even think of it as lying. Not telling is not the same as lying about it (to me). It's kind of a survival thing, and has been for my whole life.

I've said many times on here (back when I was married) "I don't hide anything!". To me, the fact that I didn't hide my clothes, makeup, etc. was "not hiding" which meant open and honest. She knew what I was doing (to an extent) when I went out of town. Not in any detail, although I would have told her (I think). I always kind of gave myself a pat on the back because I was just doing boring things. Not cheating or even looking to meet anybody at all was (and still is) the biggest thing to me. Still, there were a few times that I'm glad she didn't ask. I NEVER thought I was in a DADT, but in some ways I was. I bet there are very few of us (and not just "us") who don't hold back a little. It's kind of sad that there are people on this forum who know more about me (at least this part of me) than anybody else in my life.

I get really frustrated on here (and I'm apparently the only one) every time somebody says, "I came out as a crossdresser to my ____". I understand that that's a big deal, but it's the very pointed end of a huge cone, and probably (usually) just says "Now I'm going to start teaching you what I want you to know.". Pick the two of us on this forum who you think are the most alike. They're both crossdressers. That word, that one word, is exactly where the similarity ends. So, what does telling someone you're a crossdresser even say? It has the same value as saying "I like red", except you're not embarrassed to say you like red.

After decades of doing this in a pretty big way, my sense of what matters is pretty warped compared to someone just coming into this from either side. There are things that I don't think should even move the needle off zero, but I know that's the decades of doing it talking, and not reality for anybody else (even in my own relationships!). I know that before the needle has even moved for me, somebody else's has pegged out.

I was (and am, to a lesser extent now) selectively blind to a lot of things. There are some male mode pics of me from my distant past that show a pretty shocking degree of this selective blindness. I only have two of them in my possession now (that's another story), but I remember some others that I was pretty proud of at the time. I assure you that now they freak me out, in a "WTH was I thinking" kind of way. I think a lot of us are afflicted with this selective blindness, whether it's how well we think we pass or how thoroughly we hide this side of ourselves in male mode. I've got both.

I?ve always wondered if all my real life problems were sparked by me not living my exact truth. Maybe I was born in the wrong body. Maybe if I were different then I?d be more confident and be able to express my emotions better than I do now. Maybe?

I socialize much better presenting as female than as a short androgynous guy.

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Originally Posted by CrossKimmy

I?ve always wondered if all my real life problems were sparked by me not living my exact truth. Maybe I was born in the wrong body. Maybe if I were different then I?d be more confident and be able to express my emotions better than I do now. Maybe?

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Those of us of "a certain age" have a lot of baggage from the times we lived through, some more than others, of course. I managed, fairly well, but I can say, with near certainty, that had I been able to come to grips with my gender identity earlier, my life would have turned out even better. Decades of guilt and internalized transphobia surely robbed me of a lot. Sadly, research in this area is only now starting to gain momentum, but going forward, we should be able to see the effects of greater acceptance, enabling/encouraging young people to transition earlier. Yes, I said encouraging. That's not grooming, not indoctrination. It is acceptance, of a kind that those of us of that certain age, never had. We've always been here, and we always will be.

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Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean

That being comfortable about lying doesn't extend to other parts of my life. It's just this part, but this is a big part. I don't even think of it as lying. Not telling is not the same as lying about it (to me). It's kind of a survival thing, and has been for my whole life.

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A word about the hiding vs lying. I sure felt (and still feel) that way. Hiding, not lying. Except a few years back, I always thought that I would take my secret to the grave, that the revelation would be so hurtful and damaging that there was really no other way. I don't think GGs, my wife included, can really understand that. Everytime we had a debate on this, privately or on the forums with other GGs, there was a great chasm of misunderstanding between us and we eventually had to agree to disagree, since no side could convince the other. The reason is that both GGs and CDers feel it differently, and both feel it in their guts. Each side has their own truth, and these truths are equally valid.
I believe in positivism in science, which means I don't believe in truths, but in models. If the models makes useful predictions, then it is valid (until a better model makes better predictions and eventually replaces it).
I found two rules in my interactions with GGs (including the one who shares my life) that work well with the hiding:
- Hiding is equivalent to lying
- Lying about CDing is equivalent to cheating
The two statements above will make many CDers cringe. But consider them as models. They make good predictions about how a GG can feel about the hiding. The first one was repeatedly stated by GGs here on many occasions, so I invented nothing and just took good note of it. I devised the second one after realizing, thanks to many discussions with my wife, that the effects of hiding my CDing had caused damages to her and our couple very akin to what an affair would have.
For this reason I try to use the term lying (rather than hiding) when discussing in these forums, not because I actually feel that way in my guts, but because it is the way GGs do. It allowed useful discussions instead of endless debates about terminology, and I never looked back.

I'm not going to get into it with you over the "encouraging". We've all weighed in on that debate in other threads.

I wonder how I would have parented differently today vs. 30ish years ago. I've said before that I encouraged my boys to grow their hair long. I don't think I ever said "Please grow your hair out" but it was pretty close to that. Part of it was it would have deflected some attention away from my own hair. They did grow their nails very long, which I was less enthusiastic about and their mother hated. I'm pretty sure if they'd wanted to wear makeup or dresses I would have allowed it kind of in the same way I did it, away from the eyes of friends and family. I don't see how I could have been any other way. I can't see a way beyond that, because I never personally did it to where I was out to everyone everywhere. If they did that on their own as an adult I'd be a huge supporter and very happy for them. If they didn't, I'd also be a huge supporter and very happy for them. Hopefully there wouldn't be some indelible track of their past online that they couldn't escape.

I saw another boy in a dress earlier this week. Just a dress. No makeup, heels, etc. I'd guess him to be about 5th grade. He was out with his mom and sister (presumably). Makes me wonder if this will be the year when a lot of boys come back from summer break as girls, or at least wearing girl's clothes. I guess it's happening already, but I'm so far removed from it that I don't know it.

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Diane,

Not going to lie (see there!), I have a big problem with both of those statements. I'm not even saying you're wrong, but I certainly hope you are. The chasm part is certainly accurate. The debate, if you want to call it that, between Miel and me has brought that home to me in a big way (as someone who's already rounded home several times). But, if we keep whacking at it and doing so respectfully, even if we don't resolve anything maybe somebody will glean something from it. I cannot disagree more strongly though about the hiding=lying and cding=cheating. I need another blood pressure pill after that one! There is a long string of derogatory terms that wouldn't phase me in the least, but cheater.... uhh, no. Might be my only redeeming quality.

I hope you don't get me wrong. My point is that I totally get what you're saying (and I can see how much it tears you apart), and I share your feelings about the hiding vs lying thing because this is how I felt it in my guts at the time, but now that I saw both sides I can't go on ignoring GGs feelings (and especially my wife's) about it. Again, there is absolutely no judgment on my part, but my empathy now goes both ways, not just yours and mine, but GG's too. To give you an idea how this topic is upsetting for GGs, I can tell you that my wife is already concerned about what I wrote in my previous post and asking me questions. She always listened to my answers, but they don't make sense to her, because, well, to be honest, some stuff doesn't make sense, and hurts my wife's logic. What I feel about it isn't rational, and doesn't resist scrutiny. But it is how I felt then.

I'm not taking it wrong. I think I tend to be among the more sympathetic to all the GG's. I also agree that this is all illogical. On one hand I can easily see that this thing we do is disturbing to wives/SOs. I get that. I REALLY get that. I can think of worse terms than "disturbing" and I'm sure everybody else can too. I also get that it must be hard for someone to wrap their head around that this is a real thing. Not something done on a whim, not as a lark... you get it. Illogical? You bet.

I'm going to do an inadequate job of making my point here, but it's all I've got right now. My views, feelings, and my basic ability to defend any of this is highly affected by the fact that I've done this my entire life. In spite of this(?) I'm a good person by anybody's standards. I'm not going to go through the list of how/why I'm a good person. I'm like every other good person you know. I'm proud of that! That's who I am! What infuriates me is that that does not matter when it comes to some people's opinion of me. I've said on here a million times that I took it too far. That's not even debatable. I was wrong in letting it get way out of hand for a very long time. Guilty. At the root of it, though, there may be no acceptable amount. I think (cut me some slack. I'm not a GG, so I can't state as absolute fact) that a wife's or SO's reaction, while all gut-level, is a mixture of some personal intense turn off, part fear and shame at the thought of others finding out and the yuck-factor transferring to what people will think about her, part economic... I did a stream-of-consciousness list of all the reasons we don't tell (lie?). A lot of those things are wrapped up in a GGs reaction too (I presume).

My gut level illogical reasons for doing it? In spite of my keen awareness that most everybody thinks I'm doing something "wrong", I LOVE it! Not in some giddy schoolgirl way. It feel like it's something that just nourishes me. I know full well how weird that sounds/is. It ebbs and flows, and sometimes emphasizes one thing over the other, which is not a conscious decision. That "feel good" moving target that's swimming around in my brain? I can remember specific moments/actions that hit that bullseye dead center. Like some drug, it makes me want to experience that again. That swimming thing is always there, always being shot at, and lots of shots land somewhere on target, but then every now and then something hits that bullseye. Simple things, typically. Quick example... About 20 years ago I was doing this on a frequent, determined, and high level. My hair was longer than bra strap length. That in itself is a "thing", because it's always there and it's feminizing all the time regardless of mode. We had gone to a Christmas party at some friend's house. As we were leaving, the female host helped me get my coat on, then pulled my hair from under my coat and smoothed it down my back. Weird that that did anything for me? Yep. It wasn't sexual. To me it felt like acknowledgement and acceptance. Bullseye. I'm fully aware that that makes NO sense at all. Besides hair, there is a long list of other "things". I loved my long nails. Obsessed, nearly, with perfect nails (that my wife hated) that I was strongly compelled to have, but was at the same time somewhat, in some situations, embarrassed by or even ashamed of. The real "feel good" part of having them was going to the nail salon once a month or so (just about every time I went out of town) and having them done. I love nail polish, the process, the results. The payoff was worth the shame and embarrassment.

It's not the list of things, really. Everybody has theirs. I was damn lucky to be able to "express myself" (hate that term, but it seems to work) all the time at the level I was. Fact, that the more I "expressed myself" the less attractive I became to my wife. I get that. She didn't marry a woman and all that. Attraction is what it is. Frankly, I could have dealt with the physical appearance/attraction thing. I wouldn't have liked it, but I could have modified some or all of that. I think it's deeper than that, though. I could change the way I looked, but underneath I'm still this warped, perverted, sick, mentally ill creature. THAT'S what really gets me. Remember the "good person" thing? Doesn't matter. Let that sink in. It doesn't matter! It used to matter. That's ALL that mattered. But now you are something so repugnant that she can no longer see the good person.

I told Miel a while back that I just don't see anything "wrong" with it. Simple statement, but that pretty well sums it up. To me, just as illogical as me doing it are the vitriolic reactions to it. I mean, we're not talking about some immoral act here. I know some people are really set off by it, but my opinion is that those who are seriously set off by it are harboring some things of their own (Not talking about the wives. They're intimately invested.). Boiling it down to it's simplest terms, what is this vile thing that blows up families and undermines long term loving relationships and causes such widespread hysteria? The fact that I wear dresses and high heels? Ummm, as much as I'd like to just leave it there for effect, no. At least not all of it. It's the fact that I want to, deep down. It's those things that are swimming around in your head or mine when we do it, or even when we don't. The swimming thing is still there. There must be something wrong with a man who would enthusiastically emasculate himself, right? A normal, mentally stable man would never even think about wearing a dress, much less some of the other stuff we do, right? Only a perverted mind. A degenerate. So you stop dressing altogether. Doesn't matter. It's that thing in your head that's the real problem, and it's still there whether it's being shot at or not.

So, the cheating thing you mentioned. Touchy subject for me. Oh, I get that it's selfish. Boy do I ever. That's a fault for me and I can't escape that. Guilty, again. I even get that it can look like cheating because of the "other woman" in the relationship. Again, I'm going to butcher this, but I'll give it a shot. Speaking from my own experience here. I may look like two different people, but I'm one person, and I have one heart. I love this thing I do but I love(d) one woman, and that was my wife. That "person" that she found so ultimately vile and disgusting, loved her and only her. I get that it often looked like I was totally committed to and head over heels with this "mistress". I get that I was wrapped up in it and I can't deny the fact that "she" was a powerful distraction. Too powerful. That was wrong, and it should have been addressed. I was pretty far gone. I remember it well. I also know that in no way did this thing I do ever replace her. Not even close. Crazy as it must sound. I ALWAYS thought I loved her on a level that a "normal" person would never know or achieve. More, not less. Cheating? Frankly, I'm offended at the suggestion. I would know if it was and I hope you all know me well enough to know I'd admit it. I don't have anything to protect on this forum. Might be equivalent to cheating for somebody, but it wasn't for me and I don't think it's even close to the norm.

Before I step down off my soapbox, one more thing. I said earlier that I see nothing wrong with it. I think at first blush that seems like I'm hedging the truth. I mean, all "normal" people clearly see that there's something wrong with it! It's just not done! It's not socially acceptable... and on and on. There's that chasm again. Just because I don't see anything wrong with it doesn't mean that I don't recognize all those things. I can only tell you that my brain is missing that connection. Maybe it came unplugged somewhere along the way, or I unplugged it as a defense mechanism, but I can tell you I actually see nothing wrong with it. As I said before, if it were my son I'd cringe and advise against being "out" at school, work, or whatever, but there's no way I would prevent him from experiencing something I know is pleasurable in so many ways (I'm not talking sexually), and I'd hope like hell he could avoid the pitfalls. I'm not in favor of early transition. I'm completely in favor of early experimentation. I think if a boy has any inclination in that direction, get on with it, and get on with it in a big way and find out who/what you are before you become intwined in other people's lives. I'd certainly never teach that it's wrong. I actually thing that if a boy is allowed to experience a bit of life as a girl, it might make him a better man. I think it did me.

Well, got that off my chest. For anybody who made it all the way through that one, bless your heart! I don't even have it in me to proofread that one.

I look forward to crossdressing. It provides a wonderful vacation from my every day life. I started all this later in life other than trying on clothes when young. When my interest went ballistic I had to try so many looks I guess to find myself. I only share this with people who need to know. My wife who was stunned at first but has accepted it as part of what makes me Happy and she has said, "I should be happy". And other tgirl friends I have met as we share this interest and so wonderful to have friends who you can share stories and interests with. I go out once a month or so with Tgirl friends for dinner and some Tgirl events. it is always part of me on the inside and something I always love expressing on the outside when I can. For those around me that do not know I do not know many things about them. So being part time it works. Clearly if I transitioned that would change everything, but no plans at this point. I have many friends who have transitioned over the years some I remain in close contact with. Some really surprised me when they did. I find my friends that have transitioned had struggled through the years and transitioning really saved many and they now love who they are as a whole person. l struggled with issues growing up and can tie some of it to my desire to look like a girl/woman but now that I have allowed myself this in CDing and as important my wonderful wife accepts this so no hiding from those that need to know I have found my level of happiness. I do not see that changing but never say never.

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Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean

I get really frustrated on here (and I'm apparently the only one) every time somebody says, "I came out as a crossdresser to my ____". I understand that that's a big deal, but it's the very pointed end of a huge cone, and probably (usually) just says "Now I'm going to start teaching you what I want you to know.". Pick the two of us on this forum who you think are the most alike. They're both crossdressers. That word, that one word, is exactly where the similarity ends. So, what does telling someone you're a crossdresser even say? It has the same value as saying "I like red", except you're not embarrassed to say you like red.

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Exactly ! Coming out to a wife/SO must goes much farther than "Now I?m going to start teaching you what I want you to know", there must be an effort for more transparency. It is about telling the truth about your "true self" and giving details about what you are already doing and where you intend to go (as far as you know it). Not doing that is willingly manipulating your wife/SO : she cannot make her own educated decisions about the relationship she?s involved in and the CD can still "hide" some facets of his CDing. In any case it is bad communication and will lead to arguments and sadness. Just put your feet in her shoes (no pun) : can you really keep saying you and your wife/SO have an agreement on boundaries if both partners aren't on the same level of information ?

About lying/cheating : lying isn't cheating but lying about CDing may have the same consequences on the wife's mind and the couple relationship. Because by committing with him the wife/SO puts trust in the hands of her husband, believes she is the person who knows him the best, believes she is her confident and her best friend, cannot imagine him hiding a defining part of who he really is... He is not really having an affair but it is about him having a double life from which she was evicted. The wife feels betrayed, if you know what I mean. No one likes to feel fooled.

Again, you are not a bad person for being a CDer. But some took a bad decision when hiding the CDing. Don't you think that, according to the importance and true meaning of CDing for CDs, the wife's reaction are proportionate ? And yes, there is a chance that the more she loves you and believed she knew you intimately, the more she will badly react to the reveal, because of the treason feeling. But it is also because she loves you that she will try to adapt and stay with you.

You are not only a CDer. But CDing is a defining feature of who you deeply are.
And sometimes after the reveal CDing takes so much place in the relationship (materially and symbolically) that the wife cannot longer stay, despite the fact that you have been a good person otherwise.

(I wrote that before I saw your last post. I can see you loved your wife very much)

Great thread Rhonda. No one shares all there secrets with any one. We do are best but the status quo is what most seek and except. Life is full of if's but's and maybe's. We just have to each make our choices and take our paths. I desperately felt I was a women in my formative years. I took hormones for a short time. Then I met my rock, married her, hid my female side from her. Of course she found out. We experimented work and family became my priorities and the adolescent me was far gone.

I'm now retired kids grown up. We long since moved to DADT. The pure contentment of dressing and being closer to my whole self, will always be there. But there has been, is and always will be so much more to life.

"Proportionate." Good point. We (I) can't say on one hand that it's intrinsically important, then claim on the other hand that it's not a big deal. It's easier for me to understand it if I think of it in the way I protected the secret. I mean, if there's nothing to it, then why did I feel like I had to hide it from work, friends, some family?

I'm sure it seems like I'm rehashing my own situation. Not really. I really have moved on. Yes, some of the circumstances will always bug me, but for the most part I put this stuff out there for illustrative purposes. I do attempt to understand the "other side" better.

Personally, more and more I see this as part of my past. I've been out a lot over the past few months trying to reignite some of the old flame, if that makes any sense. I don't know how much longer I'm going to do that. It seems like no matter how great the outing or the venue, I come home wondering if it was worth the effort, time, and money. I'm not depressed over it, I just wish I could get it back. Kind of like I wish I had my youth back. I'll never give it up entirely (I don't think), but I spend more time wondering what the hell I'm doing rather than feeling whatever that immersive, exciting, soothing, right-with-the-world thing it used to give me.