Connection between being TG, and your relationship with your father?

Following is a paragraph from the "Ann Landers Encyclopedia" (note, the thinking here may be a bit dated, the book is copyrighted 1979).

....It seems therefore, that transvestism usually follows an attack on the boy's masculinity by someone, usually a woman, who puts females' clothes on him in order to humiliate him (demean his masculinity). In addition, one finds that transvestites do not have loving and warm relationships with their fathers. What is reported, instead, is disruption; a father who is distant and passive or a father seen by his son as a cold, rigid, powerful, usually an unreachable man who punctuates his distance with moments of all-too-close rage. At times transvestites' fathers, whether distant and passive or distant and angry, introduce rare amounts of tenderness with their sons. And so the boys hunger for their fathers, loving them despairingly and with an almost sexual tinge; that is, with a yearning so intense that there is created an eroticized state of frustration.

Not my theory, of course, but it did get me thinking....

The aforementioned attack on my masculinity never happened, the first time I dressed was with a like-aged female cousin, and per her and her sister, it was my idea. I was 5.

The statements regarding the relationship with the father did bring pause, some of that was pretty apt. I had a very difficult, and complex relationship with my father.

If you don't feel it's too personal, I'd like to find out if others in the community had the same type of relationship with their dads growing up. Although I'm not convinced that this is a logical theory, I'd like to see if there's any sort of connection.

Thanks in advance. :)

Well,I think I may just pass on that one.

Doesn't apply to me either....loved my dad and we got along great....

Love Karren

I give this theory a lot of weight, based on my experience, and it's an issue that I sort of uncovered when I sought the help of a therapist last year.

I am the middle of three brothers, and as far as I am aware, am the only TV/TG among us, and certainly the most feminine (or rather, non-traditional male) by quite a stretch. When I was at the crucial age of 3-5, my dad was often away on business in the states. By that time my older brother had had the opportunity to bond with dad one-on-one (he's 4 years older than I), and my younger brother was still too young to really be affected.

My memories of my dad are of him being pretty gruff, restrained and expressed his love through the words of my mother. That's not to say that he wasn't ever fun - far from it. But the peaks of laughter are muted by the intense fear I felt when he was cross or disappointed in us. His eyes became so cold and full of disgust almost.

When I dress and fantasise about the feminine life I would lead, it is as a conservatively dressed housewife and mum - pantyhose/tights, long skirts and dresses, flat pumps, pleasant makeup, and a submissive role in the relationship. What I realised in the therapy sessions was that when I dress, I seek to emulate my mother. So, I do follow the reasoning you describe, even down to the eroticisation of that need for attention and recognition as a fellow man. But I would go further and suggest that what I have always been doing is trying to attract dad's attention by becoming another version of my mum.

It's Oedipal on acid really.


Steph
x

I was never attacked or forceibly dressed by anyone. My Dad was hardly ever home which suited me just fine. I feel he did his best to support the family as he saw it. I didn't miss the fishing, hunting or other typically boy stuff as I was in my own world most of the time anyway. Any punishment I received was discipline which I needed as far as that went. If I hadn't gotten it, I may have become a criminal or into drugs or whatever. Really, the punishment was one of the only times my Dad really paid attention to me, so it wasn't all bad. I stopped long ago trying to find a reason for my CDing. I just go with the flow and enjoy being who I am and accept it. I turned out to be a good husband and Father and provider for my family but didn't go to the extreme of having 4 jobs to do it as he did. I realized my children needed their Dad after all and despite their Dad being a CD, they all turned out just fine.:happy: Ericka/Rich

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joanne_mi

If you don't feel it's too personal, I'd like to find out if others in the community had the same type of relationship with their dads growing up. Although I'm not convinced that this is a logical theory, I'd like to see if there's any sort of connection.

---

I'm not sure there's a cause-and-effect relation, but my dad pretty much fit that mold. He was somewhat distant emotionally. Although I'm sure he loved me, he never put it into words. In retrospect, I see myself as a child who never quite measured up to the standards he set.

More pertinent in my case, however, is something that happened in very early childhood. My parents were in a very tense marriage when I was conceived. My mother left with another man when I was seven months old, and my dad's parents took care of me until he remarried. So the relationship between us was somewhat colored by those events. I wonder sometimes if he saw my mother in me and resented me in some small way.

I think if everyone who had a poor relationship withtheir father was a crossdresser, there would be a lot more of us out there.

That said, I too had a very absent father growing up.

Ellisia

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joanne_mi

Following is a paragraph from the "Ann Landers Encyclopedia" (note, the thinking here may be a bit dated, the book is copyrighted 1979).

---

Ann Landers-style thinking is dated by definition, either today or back in 79.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joanne_mi

It seems therefore, that transvestism usually follows an attack on the boy's masculinity by someone, usually a woman, who puts females' clothes on him in order to humiliate him (demean his masculinity).

---

Nope. No woman ever dressed me in female stuff.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joanne_mi

In addition, one finds that transvestites [I]do not have loving and warm relationships with their fathers. What is reported, instead, is disruption; a father who is distant and passive or a father seen by his son as a cold, rigid, powerful, usually an unreachable man who punctuates his distance with moments of all-too-close rage.

---

Dad was, and is, awesome. He took me to soccer games (foreign girl here) since I was 6 or so. I love him, he loves me. Don't blame him if I traded soccer shoes for high heels.

Theories, theories, theories. :thumbsdn: Work so well with things, so poorly with human beings.

my father was a total ass and mad it a point often to tell me how opposed he was to having children and that he never wanted me in the first place... as for the frustration from the fathers absence of tender moments or absence all together i never really missed my father when he was away on the oil field for several days, cuz he was such a huge ass... i really wanted to move in with my mother but he wouldn't let me and instead sent me to live with his parents when he decided he didn't want me anymore hell he didn't want me from the beginning, i think keeping me from my mother was just more of him being jerkly or maybe he was afraid she would nurture my true nature (he was always afraid i was gay)... so some of that did hit home with me but of course not all points apply to everyone...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joanne_mi

Following is a paragraph from the "Ann Landers Encyclopedia" (note, the thinking here may be a bit dated, the book is copyrighted 1979).

....It seems therefore, that transvestism usually follows an attack on the boy's masculinity by someone, usually a woman, who puts females' clothes on him in order to humiliate him (demean his masculinity). In addition, one finds that transvestites do not have loving and warm relationships with their fathers. What is reported, instead, is disruption; a father who is distant and passive or a father seen by his son as a cold, rigid, powerful, usually an unreachable man who punctuates his distance with moments of all-too-close rage. At times transvestites' fathers, whether distant and passive or distant and angry, introduce rare amounts of tenderness with their sons. And so the boys hunger for their fathers, loving them despairingly and with an almost sexual tinge; that is, with a yearning so intense that there is created an eroticized state of frustration.

Not my theory, of course, but it did get me thinking....

The aforementioned attack on my masculinity never happened, the first time I dressed was with a like-aged female cousin, and per her and her sister, it was my idea. I was 5.

The statements regarding the relationship with the father did bring pause, some of that was pretty apt. I had a very difficult, and complex relationship with my father.

If you don't feel it's too personal, I'd like to find out if others in the community had the same type of relationship with their dads growing up. Although I'm not convinced that this is a logical theory, I'd like to see if there's any sort of connection.

Thanks in advance. :)

---

Hi Joanne,

Sad to say, my memories of my feelings for my father when I was young are not good ones. I mainly remember him as being distant and angry, not present much, certainly didn't have much to do with raising me, and my fond memories of my childhood involve things that I did with my mother. I distinctly remember being fearful of overtly masculine males. I was also a bit of a loner in my youth, although I did have friends.

As my father got older, he mellowed a lot, and later in life, we were much closer, and I ended up taking care of him full-time during the last 4 years of his life, so we definitely became closer later in life.

I do remember being dressed up by my mother when I was little, but it was not as a punishment. As far back as I can remember, I wanted to be a girl, and I think my mother was responding to that, but she's long gone, and I'll never know why she did that.

I think that my feminine tendencies when I was little may be one of the reasons that my father was distant back then.

Carol:cry:

This theory may apply to some CD/TVs but not a majority. It's completely based on environmental conditioning, with no mention of genetic or hormonal factors. It comes from the days when the theories of Dr John Money reigned supreme, and I don't think I need to tell anybody here about him and his flawed ideas! :Angry3:

Also, back then psychiatrists had access to very few of us to base their theories on, mostly people who had run afoul of the law, so their sample of TG people was skewed & the stories were bound to be distorted a little, too.

That said, I lost my father before the age of 4. My mum remarried within a few years. My step-father, though he was a bit stern with me & my sisters, is a nice guy, but I've never really bonded that strongly with him in a father & son way. I was never masculine enough for him, and I wasn't attracted much to his masculine activities. Also, he often did shift-work when I was young, so I didn't get a lot of contact with him.

Robin

There's probably something to that, but that explaination is too freudian for my tastes. Really, it's probably more that a kid in that situation would develop a strong desire to not be like their father. If he had a closer relationship with his mother, he might want to be more like her. Still I think other factors would have to be in action in order to make a kid become a TS. Otherwise, there would be a lot more of them.

I can agree with a lot of what has been said by Joanne.

My father didn't beat me up and didn't humiliate me. All I ever got from him as a kid for being naughty was the odd spanking for the usual childish misdemeanors such as swearing, being disobedient etc. From when I was 12 other punishments were more appropriate such as stoppage of pocket money etc. He was however a distant figure and to be brutally honest as far as I was concerned his contribution was finished 9 months before I was born, although it has to be said he was, as was the norm in those days, the breadwinner of the family and we wanted for nothing essential as kids and was a good husband to my late mother by the customs of that time, England in the 1950s and 60s.

He and I didn't bond in any great way and I am still not close to him. Sure, I showed him the respect that was his due but in his attitudes he was 180 degrees different to me. He liked Team Sports, I hated them , he was competitive, I hate competition, he liked rough and tumble activities , I detested them. I was always a bookish intellectual type who prefered my own company and would rather go to my bedroom and listen to classical music than watch the Football (Soccer) on the TV. He soon realised that I was not his ideal type of son but left me alone to live my own life for which I am grateful indeed!

Now he never knew about my wearing my big sister's and my mum's panties and when alone in the house their other clothes. If he had found out he may well have given me a thrashing then and would have sent me to a psychiatrist to cure my illness as he would have seen it. He didn't hide his hatred for what he called "poofs" (homosexuals) and I remember one time sitting in the front room watching the TV when a pop star he detested was on the screen. Giving a snort of disgust he said "Bloody queer, I bet he wears women's knickers!" I had a silent laugh to myself and wondered what he would think if he known that his 14 year old son was at that very moment wearing a pair of panties belonging to his other child , his daughter Anne then aged 16?

I was never forced to wear girls' clothing by my mum or anyone else. To me it would have been no punishment , anything but! It also must be said that I was always far closer to my mother and my big sister for both of whom I had both respect AND love!.

ann landers, what a putz. no one beat me (i wish) and no one made me dress up (once again i wish). if someone made me dress up maybe i could dress up more often and in front of people today.. but didn't happen, so here i sit in my own little private room, all dressed and no where to go.. :sad:

I loved my father and he was truly a nice guy but he loved my mother so much that I don't think he had much left for my sister and I. Consequently, we didn't do things together. Also, my mother was very strong and domineering and called all the shots in the family. I don't know if this fits any theory but it's the way it was.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Helen MC

I can agree with a lot of what has been said by Joanne.

My father didn't beat me up and didn't humiliate me. All I ever got from him as a kid for being naughty was the odd spanking for the usual childish misdemeanors such as swearing, being disobedient etc. From when I was 12 other punishments were more appropriate such as stoppage of pocket money etc. He was however a distant figure and to be brutally honest as far as I was concerned his contribution was finished 9 months before I was born, although it has to be said he was, as was the norm in those days, the breadwinner of the family and we wanted for nothing essential as kids and was a good husband to my late mother by the customs of that time, England in the 1950s and 60s.

He and I didn't bond in any great way and I am still not close to him. Sure, I showed him the respect that was his due but in his attitudes he was 180 degrees different to me. He liked Team Sports, I hated them , he was competitive, I hate competition, he liked rough and tumble activities , I detested them. I was always a bookish intellectual type who prefered my own company and would rather go to my bedroom and listen to classical music than watch the Football (Soccer) on the TV. He soon realised that I was not his ideal type of son but left me alone to live my own life for which I am grateful indeed!

Now he never knew about my wearing my big sister's and my mum's panties and when alone in the house their other clothes. If he had found out he may well have given me a thrashing then and would have sent me to a psychiatrist to cure my illness as he would have seen it. He didn't hide his hatred for what he called "poofs" (homosexuals) and I remember one time sitting in the front room watching the TV when a pop star he detested was on the screen. Giving a snort of disgust he said "Bloody queer, I bet he wears women's knickers!" I had a silent laugh to myself and wondered what he would think if he known that his 14 year old son was at that very moment wearing a pair of panties belonging to his other child , his daughter Anne then aged 16?

I was never forced to wear girls' clothing by my mum or anyone else. To me it would have been no punishment , anything but! It also must be said that I was always far closer to my mother and my big sister for both of whom I had both respect AND love!.

---

My father was about the same. Homophobic, absent, distant, all of the above. I never got beaten or abused or anything like that.. Our fathers seem rather similar really. In my father's defense, he did 'get it' later in life, and I was able to let many of my issues with him go as an adult.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vir Novum

There's probably something to that, but that explaination is too freudian for my tastes. Really, it's probably more that a kid in that situation would develop a strong desire to not be like their father. If he had a closer relationship with his mother, he might want to be more like her. Still I think other factors would have to be in action in order to make a kid become a TS. Otherwise, there would be a lot more of them.

---

Freud was a hack.. modern psychologists are abandoning his thinking left and right. His 'everything is based in sexuallity' thinking makes us seem like little more than animals, and of course, he was above his own theories.

His "oral fixation" theories which basically state that anything that goes in the mouth is a replacement for a penis are silly to say the least. But, when you exclude yourself from that theory as it regards to your cigar addiction with a statement like "Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar" makes you pretty much a joke. Sadly it's taken decades for pyschcology to grow beyond his thinking...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ~Bobbie~

ann landers, what a putz. no one beat me (i wish) and no one made me dress up (once again i wish). if someone made me dress up maybe i could dress up more often and in front of people today.. but didn't happen, so here i sit in my own little private room, all dressed and no where to go.. :sad:

---

Ann was a good egg though, she was always pretty sympathetic to us in her writings.

That said, I don't really believe any of Ann's thinking on this. But, self-exploration can be a good thing, and if we have another thing that we can call 'common groud', it makes us closer as a community.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Robin Leigh

This theory may apply to some CD/TVs but not a majority. It's completely based on environmental conditioning, with no mention of genetic or hormonal factors. It comes from the days when the theories of Dr John Money reigned supreme, and I don't think I need to tell anybody here about him and his flawed ideas! :Angry3:

Also, back then psychiatrists had access to very few of us to base their theories on, mostly people who had run afoul of the law, so their sample of TG people was skewed & the stories were bound to be distorted a little, too.


Robin

---

Once again, this is a very dated theory. However, in the spirit of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, we explore and connect. :)

The theories on us from that period are weak at the very best. A quick read of "Everything You Wanted To Know About Sex, But Were Afraid To Ask" will verify the badly researched thinking of the day.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Julogden

Hi Joanne,

Sad to say, my memories of my feelings for my father when I was young are not good ones. I mainly remember him as being distant and angry, not present much, certainly didn't have much to do with raising me, and my fond memories of my childhood involve things that I did with my mother. I distinctly remember being fearful of overtly masculine males. I was also a bit of a loner in my youth, although I did have friends.

As my father got older, he mellowed a lot, and later in life, we were much closer, and I ended up taking care of him full-time during the last 4 years of his life, so we definitely became closer later in life.

I do remember being dressed up by my mother when I was little, but it was not as a punishment. As far back as I can remember, I wanted to be a girl, and I think my mother was responding to that, but she's long gone, and I'll never know why she did that.

I think that my feminine tendencies when I was little may be one of the reasons that my father was distant back then.

Carol:cry:

---

I'm glad that both you, and your father came around at the end.

Maybe your mother knew more about your spirit than you think and in her love for you gave you what you wanted?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sky

Ann Landers-style thinking is dated by definition, either today or back in 79.

---

As I said, dated, but sympathetic.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sky

Theories, theories, theories. :thumbsdn: Work so well with things, so poorly with human beings.

---

Good point, you certainly can't make something like this into a garden variety explaination. It could though, be one element in explaining all this for some people.

Thanks for your input. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Karren Hutton

Doesn't apply to me either....loved my dad and we got along great....

Love Karren

---

me too

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joanne_mi

Good point, you certainly can't make something like this into a garden variety explaination. It could though, be one element in explaining all this for some people.

---

Right, it is one factor among many, and maybe it applies to some, but not to all. Part of the article was written in the old-fashioned deterministic style, like this:

"In addition, one finds that transvestites do not have loving and warm relationships with their fathers."

"Some transvestites" or even "Many transvestites" would have been better.

:love:,
Sky

[QUOTE=joanne_mi;604451]

What is reported, instead, is disruption; a father who is distant and passive or a father seen by his son as a cold, rigid, powerful, usually an unreachable man who punctuates his distance with moments of all-too-close rage. At times transvestites' fathers, whether distant and passive or distant and angry, introduce rare amounts of tenderness with their sons. And so the boys hunger for their fathers, loving them despairingly and with an almost sexual tinge; that is, with a yearning so intense that there is created an eroticized state of frustration.[/I]

I have a father that I have not talked with in about 17-18 years. So, I would not say all-too-close rage in this case, but rather maybe the hunger of wanting to know him. He sort of disappeared out of my life somewhat early, but as a youngster I did have some kind of relationship with him. I believe, don't know for sure, that my CDing simply came from being influenced by females early in my life. I was basically raised by Mom and Grandmom early on until step-father came around later. By then, it was too late. I was already in mom's closet playing with her pumps and skirts.

Additionally, I think the whole pedal pumping thing came from watching mom and grandmom at a very early age struggle starting their cars because of lack of male influence maybe?? So thats how I became the crossdressing pedalpusher perhaps?? Any ideas are welcomed!!

I used to wore girls' leggings. I had bad eczema on my legs, and my dermatologist suggested wearing "long johns", but my mom ended up buying girls' leggings, perhaps because they were equivalent but more readily available. She thought nothing of it.

One time I had them on (without wearing pants over them), and my father was supposed to take me out somewhere. He didn't want being seen in public with me dressed like that, and he said that people could see my penis (he meant the bulge of it through my leggings). So I wore shorts above them. Now it looked like I was wearing pantyhose or something. He was still uncomfortable with it but he relented.

He later divorced and ran off to a foreign country and I haven't had any contact with him in over 10 years.

Interesting, there's another thread on here that hypothesizes that if the mother is under "stress" during pregnancy, that can cause the child to exhibit CD tendencies. I replied on that thread that I do feel my mom was under stress during pregnancy.
Now, this thing with my dad. He was an alcoholic, the "mean" kind. He could and did get violent, with myself and my mom. When he was sober, he was still kind of mean, unhappy most of the time. If he ever showed any affection or love toward me, I don't remember. Most of the time, he was distant and uninvolved.
Maybe, if we keep at it, we'll get to the bottom of the "why" of CDing.

Vikki

Bobbie, you certainly can have yoru opinions about Ann {god rest her soul}....

But I have to step in and defend Ann Landers. She gave nothing but thoughtful, kind, and spot on advice to wives who have caught or found out about their hubbys' being cd's. She helped many generations of confused women as I think I read at least twice a year or more when this subject comes up. Because it always does and it always will. She always said that crossdressers are not hurting anyone, that this is a very misudnerstood phenonmea {sp?] and that most wives big concerns {the gay thing, the srs thing} are not what most cd's even want.

This theory of hers might come from an outdated source....but overall, her support and stuff for crossdressers has done more to help than hurt.

Sorry for going off topic...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ~Bobbie~

ann landers, what a putz. no one beat me (i wish) and no one made me dress up (once again i wish). if someone made me dress up maybe i could dress up more often and in front of people today.. but didn't happen, so here i sit in my own little private room, all dressed and no where to go.. :sad:

---

well for me, the first time i ever was dressed, was by by older brother and my sisters. We were playing agame, and i forget how it happened, but they tied me up, while they sliped my sisters nightgown on me. Thinking back, i must have liked it, as because later that night, as everyone was asleep, i slipped into my sisters room and found that nightgown.

AS for not having a close relationship with my father, i would have to say I didnt have one, until my teenage years. My parents were divorced, and i saw himevery other weekend. And when we did go see him, he worked all weekend minus sunday, the day we went home. But i wouldnt say that the lack of a relationship with my father led me to "crossdress." In fact, dispite this lack of relationship, I love and honor my father.....And always have. But, in all honesty, i am more closer to my mother (whom has been there for me when i really needed it.)

I have often asked myself, why i dress....and in the past i looked at it as being a bad thing. But, today, with all the bad in the world, i come to realize that i am not doing a bad thing. After all, my dressing doesnt hurt others nor does it affect anyone. For me, to dress up is a relaxing activity from a hard day of work.

but to blame my father's lack off closeness for my dressing, i would never do that. noone makes me dress, i have free will. Now maybe years ago, i was drawn it unwillingly, with desires and urges. But now, it is who i am. And with all the people out in the world who hurt others, how can anyone criticize crossdressers?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joanne_mi

Once again, this is a very dated theory. However, in the spirit of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater, we explore and connect. :).

---

Understood. Which is why I gave the rest of my answer. :)

Quote:

---

The theories on us from that period are weak at the very best. A quick read of "Everything You Wanted To Know About Sex, But Were Afraid To Ask" will verify the badly researched thinking of the day.

---

Indeed. But it was better than nothing for its day. I read that book when I was 10, while I was home sick with the flu. I told my best friend that I'd read it. Somehow, he forgot the fact that I read it in secret. He mentioned the book to his Mum (a doctor) & it got back to my parents... Did I get in trouble! FWIW, an updated edition was released a few years ago.

Robin

This is how I remember Ann Landers too, and even though it is a bit off the central topic, I'm glad that you wrote it.
The portrayal of CDs as AL's encyclopedia presents it is dated and over-general, so not surprisingly it fits some of us and not others. In my own case, my father was distant but for a different reason than I've seen noted so far: he was hospitalized when I was four and he died in the hospital when I was eight. Because of his hospitalization, I did not see him very often and then it was only on some weekends because the hospital was far from where we lived.
During that time and throughout my elementary school years, my mother had me wearing girl's panties under my boy clothes. On a couple of occasions she had me try on dresses in department store dressing rooms, and she said from time to time that she wished that she had had a daughter. She never said that she wished that I were a girl, and other than the panties, she never dressed me like a girl at home or in public. She didn't know that I was wearing her clothes some of the time since the age of seven, and when she died she did not know that I had ever been a crossdresser.
I do NOT blame my crossdressing on my father or my mother. I have always felt that both of them loved me very much. I was stunned by my father's death and felt abandoned by him (which, in turn, made me feel guilty about having bad thoughts about him). As I look back on it, I wish that I had shared my crossdressing secret with my mother. I think that she would have been surprised--even shocked--but understanding and supportive eventually.
I didn't know my dad well enough to speculate how he would have handled the news. What I've heard about him and my vague impressions of him suggest to me that he would have handled my behavior with compassion.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kathy gg

Bobbie, you certainly can have yoru opinions about Ann {god rest her soul}....

But I have to step in and defend Ann Landers. She gave nothing but thoughtful, kind, and spot on advice to wives who have caught or found out about their hubbys' being cd's. She helped many generations of confused women as I think I read at least twice a year or more when this subject comes up. Because it always does and it always will. She always said that crossdressers are not hurting anyone, that this is a very misudnerstood phenonmea {sp?] and that most wives big concerns {the gay thing, the srs thing} are not what most cd's even want.

This theory of hers might come from an outdated source....but overall, her support and stuff for crossdressers has done more to help than hurt.

Sorry for going off topic...

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Robin Leigh

FWIW, an updated edition was released a few years ago.

Robin

---

Really? I wasn't aware of that... I'd assume it's a bit more sympathetic to us then the first? I'll have to look for it at Amazon. Thanks for the heads up. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joanne_mi

Following is a paragraph from the "Ann Landers Encyclopedia" (note, the thinking here may be a bit dated, the book is copyrighted 1979).

....It seems therefore, that transvestism usually follows an attack on the boy's masculinity by someone, usually a woman, who puts females' clothes on him in order to humiliate him (demean his masculinity). In addition, one finds that transvestites do not have loving and warm relationships with their fathers. What is reported, instead, is disruption; a father who is distant and passive or a father seen by his son as a cold, rigid, powerful, usually an unreachable man who punctuates his distance with moments of all-too-close rage. At times transvestites' fathers, whether distant and passive or distant and angry, introduce rare amounts of tenderness with their sons. And so the boys hunger for their fathers, loving them despairingly and with an almost sexual tinge; that is, with a yearning so intense that there is created an eroticized state of frustration.

Not my theory, of course, but it did get me thinking....

The aforementioned attack on my masculinity never happened, the first time I dressed was with a like-aged female cousin, and per her and her sister, it was my idea. I was 5.

The statements regarding the relationship with the father did bring pause, some of that was pretty apt. I had a very difficult, and complex relationship with my father.

If you don't feel it's too personal, I'd like to find out if others in the community had the same type of relationship with their dads growing up. Although I'm not convinced that this is a logical theory, I'd like to see if there's any sort of connection.

Thanks in advance. :)

---

I was forced to dress in girls clothes from 4 tears old until I turned 7 by my birth mom and step dad.
as for my natural dad,he was a brutal monster,because I believed dressing in girls clothes was normal,he brutally abused me my entire life,in his eyes I was sick.
you cannot begin to comprehend some of the things he would accuse me of,once to teach me to leave stepmoms heels alone,he put my hands over the burner of a gas stove,when I read threads like this it just sends me into a rage.
no I'm not upset with you or your thread,just the individuals who made me what I am.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by secrets

I had a poor relationship with my father until he was forced to move out when I was 16ish, after which I never saw him again.
He was always someone to be feared and was rarely involved with me for anything other than a beating if I did wrong.
His rules about the house were strict and not always logical in my opinion. When he left, things were much more relaxed.

I think his regime forced me to be more introvert and secretive, I used to spend hours alone outside or locked in my room out of harms way and I have often wondered if that was what made me who I am.
I have thought long and hard about this so many times and can honestly say I will never know.

sorry for the long post, but this has touched a nerve with me, now can someone point me in the direction of the 'I hate my father' forum :)

---

secrets,thats how my life was,are you sure our fathers weren't clones:eek:

Hi All: First let me say that if Ann Landers was here today she would likely admit that this info is dated and probably not accurate. She was always ready to admit when she was wrong. To her credit she helped me when I was a teen by writing advice for a man who wanted to buy womens underwear. After reading her advice I was able to get the courage to do it.

In my case my mother was under great stress when I was en utero. Aside from being maried to man who didn't want children and was constantly berrating her and screaming at her, she was on the ragged edge of always being in congestive heart failure. She was 40yo when I was born, and she had a damaged heart valve from "rhumatic fever" IE untreated strep in her teen yrs.

I was also forced crying in to my older sister's gingham partydress, panties, lacey socks and maryjanes at age 4, in front of her and 2 playmates giggling the whole time, by my mother who was only being playful. My grandmother would always say to me "its a shame U were not a girl with that great complexion".

Last but not least my father was cold and always ready to fly into an angry rage that ended with physical abuse to my mother or sister or me. My sister today has struggled a lifetime with an eating disorder that was likely caused from this abuse. There is almost no way I cold not have been a crossdresser.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by tammie

Hi All: First let me say that if Ann Landers was here today she would likely admit that this info is dated and probably not accurate. She was always ready to admit when she was wrong. To her credit she helped me when I was a teen by writing advice for a man who wanted to buy womens underwear. After reading her advice I was able to get the courage to do it.

In my case my mother was under great stress when I was en utero. Aside from being maried to man who didn't want children and was constantly berrating her and screaming at her, she was on the ragged edge of always being in congestive heart failure. She was 40yo when I was born, and she had a damaged heart valve from "rhumatic fever" IE untreated strep in her teen yrs.

I was also forced crying in to my older sister's gingham partydress, panties, lacey socks and maryjanes at age 4, in front of her and 2 playmates giggling the whole time, by my mother who was only being playful. My grandmother would always say to me "its a shame U were not a girl with that great complexion".

Last but not least my father was cold and always ready to fly into an angry rage that ended with physical abuse to my mother or sister or me. My sister today has struggled a lifetime with an eating disorder that was likely caused from this abuse. There is almost no way I cold not have been a crossdresser.

---

my father never got phycally abusive with my stepmom,stepbrother,or stepsister,just me,no matter what went wrong in that house,it was always my fault because I was abnormal.
today they probably blame everything that goes wrong on me,and they haven't heard from me in 7 years or so.
I once met John Bradshaw,he told me,"target children" also known as the family scapegoat
can never be repaired,they go through life trying to understand what they did wrong.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ~Bobbie~

ann landers, what a putz. no one beat me (i wish) and no one made me dress up (once again i wish). if someone made me dress up maybe i could dress up more often and in front of people today.. but didn't happen, so here i sit in my own little private room, all dressed and no where to go.. :sad:

---

Great post from my point of view.

Here is my theory. I do what makes me happy and I don’t need to find reasons why I am the way I am. What would be the point, someone to blame? Someone to thank? I make no apologizes for who I am and I have no guilt about who and what I am.

Pattie Ann

No, I wasn't forced to dress as a girl when I was younger.

No my father wasn't cold and distant, just the contrary, very warm and always ready to answer questions from his children.

Of course there will always be some people who recognise themselves in such theories. But the analogy of situations doesn't prove any causality between the osbverved situations where fathers have been cold ans distant and travestism.

But I'm not surprised about Ann Lander's statements, especially since they were made more than 30 years ago...
:hugs:
Eugenie

30 years is for ever. Ann would proibably say something different now.

As for me I intiated my CDing at 5years old. My Dad was killed before I was 10,but my memories are of a great person.

I believe that we are all slightly different except for the fact that once you put on girls clothes you're hooked. No getting away, but who would want to anyway!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by secrets

Hey, there was some discrepancy over my who my father was/is. To this day I dont know for sure! so...you never know!

Further to my last post, I wonder if my visions of my father made me not want to be a man?

---

the way my father treated me made me not to want children,my stepsister is married for 18 years ,she has no children,I believe it's because the way I was treated,my stepbrother is divorced and has 3 boys,his wife left him because he brutalized his 3 boys,all 3 of my nephews have emotional problems,their hands shake all the time,and they are big time alcoholics.
I just wonder if parental violence against their children is genetics.
my father never drank any alcoholic yummies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Janailene

I believe that we are all slightly different except for the fact that once you put on girls clothes you're hooked

---

That certainly seems to be true.

I have no idea who my father is. I was raised by my grandparents and they told me that they were my parents. They even had a birth certificate showing them as my parents, so I never questioned it. The woman who raised me was a sad person. She had issues. The man who acted like my dad was not around much. And when he was the old woman treated him like trash, so I don't blame him for not being around. When I was 40 I found out that my mom was who I thought was my sister. She died 2 years before I found out that she wasn't my sister, that she was my mom. I have always felt inadequate as a male. I wanted to do boy things but was never really good at sports or other guy things. I would put on the woman's stockings when I was 13 or so and knew then that I wanted to please men, but I fought it because I didn't want to be a "fag." I only feel like I'm me when I'm dressed. Nothing feels as natural to me as wearing stockings and high heels with make up and a wig on. I believe that different things cause crossdressing. As much as I love it and do it more and more I don't believe it's a natural thing for a male to do. Someting happened at some point. I think it's wonderful for forums like this to be available to us who love crossdressing but struggle with it.

Kayla

I've often wondered whether or not my relationship (or lack thereof) with my father had anything to do with my being a transvestite. I don't think my father liked me. We were not close at all. He was physically abusive toward me, sometimes seriously so. My mother was wonderful. I always thought that maybe I somehow or other grew up wanting to be like her and not at all like him.

Hi,

I'd like to respond to the original post.

For the first part: no, I was not forcibly dressed etc.

For the second part, relationship with father: complex, so maybe yes.

princess michelle

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joanne_mi

In addition, one finds that transvestites do not have loving and warm relationships with their fathers. What is reported, instead, is disruption; a father who is distant and passive or a father seen by his son as a cold, rigid, powerful, usually an unreachable man who punctuates his distance with moments of all-too-close rage.

---

There was never any rage involved but cold and distant, and with a desire that his son would be a tough guy "man's man"....yeah, tell me about it :(

I think we all have seen here that we all do this for a myriad of reasons, some known some unknown. You can't pigeonhole it based on psychobabble, however benign it may be. I do it, I like it, I don't really care why. My mother didn't dress me up, my father didn't abuse me. I'm a normal well adjusted guy who likes to put on a dress every so often,

I never even met my father but I alway's wished that I had a father or atleast a brother. My mom and my sister raised me. When I was young I wanted to be just like my sister and I followed her everywhere. I remember she was in "Brownies" (generic girl scouts) and my mom volunteered with the group so I would go to every event and meeting. And one day when I was about 4 or 5 years old I wanted to try on this red and white dress that my sister had so when I had the opportunity I went in to the closet and tried it on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by robinLynn

me too

---

Me also.A middle child,loving family,as far as I know the only cd'r.:D

It's reflective of outdated, typically Freudian, theories about crossdressing and trans-ness -- along with it's counter-parts: the cold, distant mother, the smothering mother, etc.

Richard Docter, in his excellent "Transvestites and Transsexuals," specifically looked at these theories found no evidence to support them. (Not to say that it may not have occurred in individual instances, as people have attested to.) Social historians Vern and Bonnie Bullough point out in "Cross Dressing Sex and Gender" how psychological theories about crossdressing and trans-ness during the past century have reflected a lot of unacknowleged biases based on societal assumptions about "proper" gender roles at a given time.

BTW, I also have to give props to Ann Landers, for the reasons Kathy GG mentioned. The information may have been incorrect in this case, but overall she was definitely supportive.

Incidentally, it's also worth Freud did make a lot of valuable contributions -- ideas like projection, transference, etc. that we don't think of being "Freudian." And Freud himself was a lot less "Freudian" than his follower when it came to things like the Opedius and Electra complexes. Interestingly, Freud never addressed transgender issues -- all this sort of theorizing was done by later followers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joanne_mi

....It seems therefore, that transvestism usually follows an attack on the boy's masculinity by someone, usually a woman, who puts females' clothes on him in order to humiliate him (demean his masculinity).

---

I've never had a particularily good memory for events ("episodic memory"), but to the best of my recollection, absolutely nothing like that ever happened to me.

[QUOTE=joanne_mi;604451] In addition, one finds that transvestites do not have loving and warm relationships with their fathers. What is reported, instead, is disruption; a father who is distant and passive or a father seen by his son as a cold, rigid, powerful, usually an unreachable man who punctuates his distance with moments of all-too-close rage.

Let me think... Yes I got spankings; no I can't recall at the moment if they were always administered by my father. They hurt, but there was always a reason for them, and I don't mean a "made-up" or arbitrary reason for them. My father might perhaps have been the disciplinarian more than my mother, but there was never ever a cruelty about it: we always knew that our parents were trying as best they knew how to raise us.

We did a lot together as a family, camped, hiked, tobagonned, went to museums, visited every province except Newfoundland and all of the northern USA. Reading was well encouraged, as was an appreciation for nature; team sports were never pressed upon me; he took me to his work, helped me with little electronics projects, and let me help him in his household workshop, including using the grinders and chisels and drills and saws.

Unfortunately, his health was failing by the time I was 10, and he had several surguries and hospital stays, and died about a month before my 14th birthday.

If he were still alive... I'm pretty sure he would have been able to accept my cross-dressing (which really didn't kick in until 2 years ago) -- at least intellectuallym as intolerance was never one of our family values. But after this long it's hard to predict how comfortable he would have been if I'd gone to visit him in full femme. (I don't think it would bother my sister or brother-in-law to see me in full femme, but she already has enough things in her life; all 3 of us tend to burn ourselves out helping people.) My mother... if I told her, I'm certain she would still love me, but she'd ask questions that I'm not prepared to answer.)

Never knew mt father. He died in WWII, before I was birn - actually he wasn't my legal father either. I was a bastsrd child - probably a kind of going away present to my mother.
Anyway, I was brought up by my mom.and her sister. Her sisiter's husband died when I was two or theree from an infection. So I was brought up in a house with my mom,. my aunt and my two girl cousins - no men except for uncles and such. Alwayw thought that that played a great part in my CDing. All of thise woman and their cute feminine things. Also ladies in that era always wore dresses or skirts and bkouses. Heels and nylons. Make up. I guess that stayed with me.
Dawn