She Asked Me When Do I Want To Sell The House

For those of you who may have followed the relationship events in my life this thread may not come as a surprise. I throw this out there in the hopes that I can get some sage advice.

The other day my wife asked me to go out to lunch with her. In the middle of the lunch she asks me - "When do you want to sell the house?" - to which I replied - "Whatever do you mean?".

The rest of the conversation revolved around that opening statement. She said that clearly I was not going to stop CDing and she will never accept it and so she wanted to know when we should sell the house and separate. I said to her that I felt that we should go to more counselling in the new year to which she responded, to what end? She said that she was never going to change her mind about CDing. She asked, what is the purpose of going and I said to work through our relationship issues including my CDing and to get her to open her mind just a little bit and try to understand.

Later in the conversation she said that perhaps it would be the wrong time to sell the house and split up because her mother is living with us and she did not want to uproot her, better she said to wait until she passes on. She also said that one of the issues with staying together was that I wanted to have sex (hmmm - amazing her sense of perception in what one expects from a married relationship) and she said that she did not want that anymore because sex is not important at this age (her 55, me 48 - I did not realize there was an expiry date) and that the only reason that I wanted sex anyway was for validation (of what? I said I enjoyed the intimacy).

Anyway the conversation continued to go in this peculiar way and then she asked me if I had started seeing anyone else and I said emphatically NO. and I asked her if she was seeing someone and she said she never wants to have a mate again because they are too much trouble.

So, by the end of the conversation, I told her that I still cared for her, wanted to find some way to make this work (she said sure as friends if I can accept that - I said I could not) and somehow managed to get her across the goal line of agreeing to going to further counselling.

From that point until now she has been, for the most part, very lovey dovey with me, saying hon this and babe that and hugging me and yet I know she is still thinking separation.

I am so damn confused about all of this. Has anyone ever been in a situation like this before and somehow managed to a) stay in the relationship b) been able to get acceptance of the cross dressing and c) resume normal intimacy? I am looking for guidance. I feel like I am losing my mind over this.

Ahhhhhh

Melissa

Melissa, When is the last time you took your wife out on a date? Maybe it is time to have a date and do some of the things you like to or did like to do together.

Tell her some of the reasons you married her. And ask her some of the reasons she married you.

I think pushing for more counseling is a good thing if you can find or already have one that you both can relate to. I wish you the best of luck with renewing your marriage.

KimberlyS-CD

Hi Melissa, I wish I could give you some good advice but I'm just as :shocked: :silly: :confused: as you are.

I hope the counselling will help.

The only thing I know is that at 48 my sex drive is as high as it has ever been, and my SO who is 9 years older hasn't slowed down any either. But everyone's different so I won't comment on your wife's 'expiry date'. You know what you need though, so I hope it works out for you. It sounds to me like you certainly are doing your best to make it work.

Wish I could have been of more help. :hugs:

Well my two cents is, it sounds like she needed to feel like you still loved her and fighting like you did showed her. By fight like you did you fought for her. Make cense? It would make me feel all lovey dovey if you fought for me like that.
Huggs, Shelly.

"Women are from Venus and men are from Mars." I have no idea where CD's are from but my ex used to have me completely confused about what she wanted. Your story sounds familiar. My former cohabitational partner knew nothing about my dressing. So that wasn't a factor in our case. But she still is my "ex." Any advice I could give might be useless. But I would try the dating suggestion. Sounds good to me. Good luck.

Mailssa start datind and corting your wife maybe some gifts flowers movies not at home keep telling her you love her I think she needs that and the best of luc to you hun :hugs:
Angie

Melissa,

I can relate to a lot of what you describe. I'm going to warn you, I won't be sugar-coating my thoughts - so if you're looking for a happy ending, skip the following.

Counselling isn't going to do any good if your wife has emphatically decided she will 'never [...] change her mind' about your dressing. If you push on, chances are she will attempt to bring the therapist around to her view - and, who knows, there's enough therapists who might go along with this. Or at least get stuck on the CDing when the marriage problems are, no doubt, much more complicated. That certainly was my experience.

The sex issue is also familiar with me. It's my belief that once the lovemaking stops - for a prolonged period - the marriage is pretty well cooked. It's possible couples can surmount the problem - renew the domestic 'exchange' in some parallel way - but, generally, once a partner has shut down sexually, it's obvious the romance is gone. The other partner can deal, be bitter or find another mate.

Regarding the house, it seems your wife said that to shake you up and get you listening. Obviously, that strategy succeeded. With her mother living there, it seems your wife's suggestion was more bluster than intention. At the risk of sounding manipulative, it's good to know where an asset can be found. You might even consider contacting a lawyer - before she does.

I believe once couples talk about divorce - it's inevitable.

My deepest, sincerest condolences.

I'm afraid I don't have much in the way od sage advise to offer.
How about a :hugs: instead. :o Even before I came out to my wife, I was often somewhat confused - part of that being the venus, mars thingy - and now, even more so.

I do wish you luck, and believe her agreeing to counseling has to be a positive development.

Do keep us posted.

xoxo

T

I'm eperiencing some turbulence with my wife also, not over CDing though, it is a complex equation with many factors. Our communications have mostly broken down and we don't talk a lot about 'stuff' mostly because we spend all of our time with our preschooler. For now that is a good distraction, but eventually we have to find a way to get to know each other again and remember the past we had and build a better future. I guess when all else fails, you can remind her that she 'made a lifetime commitment to you through the good and bad and sickness and health' and you expect that she doesn't just give up trying to make it work. Talk about the issues around what has changed since then. It seems that after so many years together it would be silly to throw it all away over one thing that you can't agree on. You must have other things that you don't agree on, maybe use the solution for dealing with them as a model. Anyway, I hope you have success and the idea of going on a date or dedicating time just to talk is good.

I haven't been through that experience fortunately.

I always believe that my wife should be treated like a Princess and shown much consideration, kindness and love. The dating idea is good but carry it all the way one step at a time and show her how much you really do love and appreciate her.

Maybe even show her how being a CDer helps you to understand her better. Now you know about her clothes and makeup etc. Go with her when she goes shopping and see if she appreciates your advice and suggestions. Its your call on this one though.

Maybe she feels threatened and needs to be reassured that your CDing is not a threat.

My 2 cents worth.

Melissa, You know my situation. I am still married but my wife will never, ever accept Ericka. We have not been intimate in the last five years, even so I still love her very much and always will. She is living with her Mom and taking care of her as she cannot bear being around me while Ericka exists. That leaves me more or less on my own. There has been no talk of selling the house or anything. I'm thinking she is still hoping I will give this up. Fat chance of that. I've lived most of my life as a sham. To return to that sham is unthinkable for me.This is who I truely am. To attempt to return to who I "was" just isn't worth it to me and I doubt that I would want to continue living. Sometimes you have to make a choice and this is mine. I have no desire to transition and even now(after retiring) I've been giving myself the opportunity to see if I would really want to live as Ericka full time. I still enjoy being Richard somewhat but will see how it goes. I need to know if I truely want to do this all the time which is why I asked the GG's for that advice recently.
Your wife is probably thinking you will "come around" but I think I know you well enough to say that will not happen. It's tough in a lot of ways but sadly, this is the stance many women take. They feel they married a man and not a man who is a part time woman. My wife has told me this pointedly many times. The thing many women don't realize is that this is a part of who you are that probably attracted them to you to begin with. To attempt to "assinate" that part of yourself just doesn't work. It's like telling someone they need a lobotomy and you expect them to function normally afterward. It's a tough choice but only you know how important this part of yourself is. To me it's life itself.
I don't know how my situation is going to end up with my marriage but I do know that the Ericka part of me is here to stay. If we can work something out, it would be nice but Ericka isn't going anywhere. I know you love your wife and I love mine but I sometimes wonder how their professed love can be so conditional. Bottom line is that if I chucked Ericka (which I had been considering), I know I would never truely be happy no matter what else I did. It's a big part of me and who I am. I cannot just kill a part of myself with impunity. I hope things work out for you but it's looks like a long road ahead. As always I'm here to talk to as is everyone else.:happy: Ericka Kay

All I can add is my own :2c: as a newbie here. I have the most understanding wife in the world. We have been married for 33 years and there is nothing but 100% love and trust between us. On many nights in bed, we have spent hours at a time in rambling conversation, talking about a number of subjects. Even after all this time it has taken me until just last week to unload my desire to crossdress upon her. As was expected, she is behind me 100%, just as she would be if I asked her about what color to paint the house, is it time to buy a new car, what should we do about her Dad who is getting older and not doing well on his own...etc. I'm not saying this is the case in your situation, but often when a partner will not accept something about you, it's based upon a deeper mistrust or unwillingness to accept you. Right now it's about crossdressing, but it could be about wanting to own a horse, wanting to join a co-ed bowling league without her, you name your position and she could figure a way to build a fence against it.

It's not about the crossdressing, but you will not convince her of that. Yes, I think you should continue to try counseling, perhaps with a different professional. Please don't give up.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by melissacd

Has anyone ever been in a situation like this before and somehow managed to a) stay in the relationship b) been able to get acceptance of the cross dressing and c) resume normal intimacy? I am looking for guidance. I feel like I am losing my mind over this.

Melissa

---

Hi Melissa,

By now you will have read many answers to your post. These show you that unfortunately you're not alone :o

My situation is somewhat similar to yours. Wife knowing but not accepting to see me "en femme", Unlike yours, mi wife doesn't want to hear about coucelling. She doesn't believe in that sort of things...

She is however somewhat tolerant with me having my own cupboard with my "femme" clothes, letting me meet other CDs on the internet or in real life providing she doesn't know about it.

Last year she nevertheless threatened me to divorce when she noticed I had shaved my arms. I managed to make her understand how it came about. I stopped shaving for a while, but then started again. She knows I'm doing it but this time decided to ignore...

We haven't had sex for the past 8 years. Her atitude isn't completely linked to my X-dressing, some other factors are at play. In that domain, not even a single tenderly gesture. I can accomodate with that situation...

She knows I can't stop x-dressing, I know she can't change her mind about it.

We are now just like long time friends: 37 years wedding plus five years before we got married...

So far, our couple stil holds. A few things have helped :

I did a lot of efforts to pay more attention to her wants and needs, redone a few home work in our flat for example, and made some long term projects with her to show her that I didn't intend to leave her.

As a result, eventhough she still doesn't like my x-dressing, she is a little less negative about it... On a few occasions she alluded to it in a way that wasn't negative :o , that's not so bad...

Perhaps your wife will progressively evolve like mine. I also evolved toward's her views.

I wish you all the best for your future.

Very warm :hugs:
Eugenie

Very sorry to hear Melissa,

but I am all with DayTripper.

It seems done.

She decided it, but now you should take the action.

Being kind and caring reads here more like a big relief and maternal instinc (she's already over it, and you've not yet started).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by DayTripper

Melissa,
Counselling isn't going to do any good if your wife has emphatically decided she will 'never [...] change her mind' about your dressing.

---

I can't agree with this.

My wife has said the same, but after counselling she's a lot more accomodatimng than she was before it. I'm not saying that the counselling has made her like my CDing but she's OK with certain aspects of it now.

Counselling isn't the ONE answer though. I don't think that our counsller was that good. She didn't seem open to me being a CD either. I had to convince her, before we made any progress with my wife... I basically had to counsel the counseller :)

All marriages have problems. They all go stale after a while. My wife and I rarely have sex, and we're not 40 yet. My wife's drive is a lot lower than mine. We've talked about splitting on more than one occasion, but we never will. We know that we love each other too much. Our problems can be overcome, and they often are. They may not vanish completely but they do go away, if only to surface another day, but providing we understand this, we will survive.

Melissa, stick with it. Be as kind and caring as you can be. Be understanding.
Suprise your wife with a meal or similiar. Run her a bath and offer to do her back, but don't add any sexual content into it... Make her feel at ease, without the pressure of wanting sex.
Having her mother living with you can't be easy either. I would hate that. It must be difficult to be a couple when there are 3 of you. Your wife's love and loyalty will be split, and I bet that her mother gets the lion's share. That's nature. Can you do something about this? A trip away perhaps?

Take it slowly, show your wife that she is your world, and if needs be, cut down on your CDing a bit. You have to decide which is more important.

Good luck

LL

sounds pretty cut and dry and her mind is set in stone...either that, or she is trying to force play you into giving up your dressing habits. But the fact that she has told you also that she doesn't want another mate, because they are too much trouble, tells you there are other issues besides the dressing...
hate to say it, but the chances of this working out don't look too good...
i've been there...its a bad situation!
You may need some therapy to work thru this...don't rule it out!

hon one more thing you might want to start putting some money away just in case stacylynn1

Just one point; Counselling is a great idea, but try to find one that is knowledgable about transgender issues, or at least one that is willing to research and be objective about it.

I think the one thng we all have in common with a S/O is the threat we pose< they preceive >to them...I think first they fear the worse we are some sort of pervert, then we want a man, and if that is your cup of tea good for you, but in my case and sounds as you're in the same boat, we are happy with the person we are with.
In my case we had some really serious problems, as a matter fact I gave my dressing up for almost a year to appease her. This created more problems with less and less communications...Then in November she suddenly came to me and ask to see Marcie again...She has bought me clothes and as a matter of fact a really nice gown for Christmas. With all that said, I would suggest some serious heart to heart chats, not that it will be easy, ours wasn't atleast at first, but slowly we came to know each other, perhaps in a way we never knew each other before. I'm quite sure there are some mixed feelings, but we talk...and that is the most important thing...communicate, communicate, communicate...
I can only hope that your situation will have the same out come mine has...Wish you good luck...
But as one of the girls suggested, dont put all your eggs in the same basket...
I have some rainy day resources stored away...just in case...and still do...
that will provide a measure of comfort and support in the event things go south...My motto is don't give up, don't ever give up, but have that out in the event your efforts and desires are nixed by the S/O...

Good luck and God bless...take this time of year to start that process of understanding between the two of you...:hugs:

hey Melissa
i am so sorry to here that Hun . as i say never give up hope. i am there for you call me or come over, or better still lets got out i am looking forward to next year and our many outings
hugs Marissa

I am by no means an expert, so this is just my opinion. It sounds like your cding is the main issue. I think you should show her that you are still the man she married even though you cd. How you do that is up to you, but if you love her fight like hell and do what you need to do while still staying true to yourself. Good luck.

Christie

Golly Melissa, that sounds all too familiar , the counsellor telling her I would change sex , she making plans to sell the house & move to another state ,until she decided to ask me what were my intentions , I told her no GRS , happy to stay as I am , no more problems. Ask her if that is her fear, or is she afraid of feeling like a lesbian , as my SO told me that is how she would feel. Probably no help to you as we are all different , but the very best of luck to you both. Hugs , toni oz

Hi Mallissa
I very sorry you've come to this place in your relationship, I know how hard it is. First I would say the issue here isn't CDing. CDing is just the tool to focus the issue away from the real problem. You wifes comments on sex indicates real issues with intamicy and comunication in the relationship and her coments on mates are just too much trouble pushs issues of trust and shared goals. You appear to want a close physicaly intimate relationship and your wife wants something else, I don't know what that is, DO YOU! I'd start here, ask you self what kind of relationship (where do you see you and your partner, don't think in terms of your wife because it may not be her) do you want a year from now, 5yrs and 10yrs In this think intamicy, family, work, and ageing, what qualities must your parner have for you to accept them and be happy. write this down sit with it then do it again. Then sit down and have a talk with your wife truly find out about her and her expectations. If she can't, won't talk about it, your done, you have your answers. if she will you;ve got a place to start. If you start give up on outcomes accept any outcome including divorce is possible and just get really clear where both of you at at what both of you want and how both of you want to live your lives then you can make some decisions. Don't focus on CDing thats not the issue.

melissa,
sounds a lot like my situation. Counseling didn't help much because counselor was not tg friendly nor knowledgeable, as per above comments. My wife refuses to accept, and refuses to discuss cd--can barely say the word. Just friends at times. Claims she would never want another man--"They are all jerks!" Daytripper has made some good points. I give my wife space. But Jan and I are still together, and i try to be nice to her--like we were still dating. I laugh at her jokes, sympathize with her problems, agree with her asbackwards politics. And give her backrubs and foot massages. And i discovered intimacy is not out of the question.

Just wow,typical female :Angry3:

That marital spat sounds like some of mine. I've been married now almot 2 years. Sometimes I feel a bit bullied by my wife though I love her deeply. Usually when mine gets into "you should go back to Briain. It's not working" frames of mind, she becomes an absolute bitch for half a day then her period starts and she's fine again.

Dear Melissa,

I agree with some above that the "sell the house" ploy was just that. A ploy to get you to listen to her. It may not have been a good one, but it did get your attention, didn't it? I also agree that it is not very likely that she REALLY wants to do this as long as her mother is living there.

So the question remains, ARE you going to listen to her?

She is clearly freaked out about your CDing. And you keep wondering, "Why can't she just be a little more accepting?" It's easy to ask this question, isn't it? We hear it all the time on this forum. Why can't my wife, girlfriend, SO, be more accepting?

Your wife is haveing trouble accepting this because it's a BIG deal to her. You (and anyone else on this forum) are not going to be able to come to any resolution in your marriage untill you understand this fact. It's a BIG freakin' deal. Asking why she just can't cut you some slack is just not gonna make it here.

Melissa, I want you to do an exercise in empathy. "Empathy" is the ability to experience another's feelings as your own. Please try hard to do this exercise. Imagine that you are not interested in CDing. Imagine that you have never even heard of CDing. One day your loving wife tells you that she wants to start dressing as a man! OMG!! A man! She wants to start dressing like a man. She says she wants to experience her masculine side. She says that not only does she want to dress in a suit and tie, but she wants to cut her hair in a man's buzz cut. "It's OK honey", she says. "I can wear a wig when we go out together". She says she is done shaving her legs and underarms, and she really doesn't want to wear any makeup any more. Also, she wants to make love as a man, on top, and with pajamas on, no more sexy nightgowns or teddies for her. She wants to get some shoulder pads to make her look more masculine and some lifts for her shoes to make her look taller. Oh, and she wants to bind her breasts so she looks more like a man, and maybe get a false beard to wear "just arround the house, honey". Are you with me so far Melissa? She also wants to spend hours on the computer talking to other women who feel the same way she does. And she wants to join a club with a bunch of other women who do the same thing. She tells you that her biggest thrill would be for you two to go out to eat and to a game as two guys. TWO GUYS, Melissa!! Can you believe that??? Your wife wants to parade around town with you as TWO GUYS. This is your beautiful, sexy, wife saying all this. She doesn't want to look sexy any more. Now she wants to look BUTCH. All this, Melissa, and she wants your marriage to go on as usual. What will your family think about this? What will your boss think about this? What will your friends think about this. Will they think you are gay because you are fooling around with another man? And it's not really a man, is it. It's your wife. She can't really look like a man. The best she can pull off is to look like a prissy gay guy. Are you still with me, Melissa? She wants you to parade around town with a gay guy!! What's happened to YOUR masculinity?

OK, I hope you are getting the picture, here. I think you would have some trouble accepting all of this. I think you just MIGHT say no to all this. I think you just might say you couldn't accept this situation at all and you could not stay married if she continued with it.

Maybe, just maybe, if you really wanted to stay married (perhaps you are dependant on her for your suport), you could come to some agreement where she just did this when you were not around. Or maybe she could do this just once a month. Or maybe just a little bit. Perhaps she could do it just around the house but not out where anyone could see her.

There are all sorts of ways you could accomodate her desire to dress and act like a man. But I am going to remaind you of one fact. This is going to be a VERY BIG DEAL in your relationship. It's going to rock to foundations of your marriage and it's going to require a great deal of understanding on your part if you two are going to stay married. If you think this whole deal would be easy for you to accept, then you are not thinking clearly about it. As I said at the beginning of this rather long winded post, your wife is freaked out about your CDing. It's really bothering her. AND, it's going to take a lot more than just, "becoming a bit more open minded", for her to accept your desires.

Those of us who have partners who accept us should stand up and give a rousing round of applause to the women who do. And those of us whose partners are having trouble accepting us should understand that it's not an easy thing to do. It may be the right thing, it may be the good thing, it may be the loving thing, but it will NEVER be the easy thing.

Do I have any advice? Sure. Treat her like you did when you were first married. Take her out on a date. Not just once. All the time. Try to show her that Melissa is a better person than Tom, Dick, or Harry, or whatever your name is. Try to show her how important SHE is to you compared to Melissa. I know how important Melissa is to you, but you have had a long time to get used to Melissa. She hasn't.

OK, I am winding down here. Whew! Try a little empathy, dear. Your marriage may not be over if you do.

Lovies,
Stephenie

There is a possible outcome of all this that might not be bad. When my wife and I first separated in 1998, it was not because of CD - at that time I had not discovered my female side. We just had a marriage that wasn't working. I had just retired and we had decided to move from Texas to North Carolina. It was while we were packing that she announced we were going to separate, but we went ahead with the move anyway. We just rented separate quarters in the mountains. That was when I first discovered "me".

But then after 6 months apart we were seeing each other again and she invited me to move in with her in a house she was buying. Well, that didn't go well and 6 months later I was back in the same place I had first rented. Now, during that period I had packed all my "things" away and never disclosed Donna Marie to her. On my own again, I was free to further explore my female self. Somehow, though, we continued to be drawn to each other in spite of prior troubles. I went into therapy and was lucky to find a really good therapist that I could fully open up to. The therapist helped me to explore my feelings toward my wife and to better understand her feelings toward me.

So it appeared that our little cold war was thawing again and we explored whether to try living together one more time (Jeez Louise, don't he never learn nothing?). I decided it was important to out myself before we tried again - I sure didn't want to get caught the hard way. My conversation with her went amazingly well, I thought. She said she was glad I told her, but that she would need time to think it over. Not hearing anything more, I asked her a couple of weeks later what was up. She said she had decided to just not deal with it. We continued to see each other, but we also continued to live apart. A short time later in mid 2000 I bought my own townhome, where I am today.

But the interesting thing is that we continue to attend church together, we travel all over together, we are there for each other during medical difficulties, and we remain close in many ways. This year we traveled eastern Canada from Montreal to Halifax,and we had a blast. Then for Thanksgiving we drove to Mississippi to visit her relatives. We have settled into the realization that we are just very different people in the way we choose to live. We even have dogs that are sisters from the same litter, so they enjoy each other whenever we are together. The dogs rode with us to Mississippi, too. So it is an unusual situation, but it seems to work for us, particularly as I sit here writing this in full Donna Marie mode.

Oh - one last thing - I gave her my old computer a few years ago. I thought I made sure it was clean of all my files. One day she told me it was good that we had the earlier conversation about CD. She found a batch of emails somewhere in the computer. She said reading the emails helped her to better understand the CD thing (gulp).

Sorry for the overlong ramble.

She's playing mind games with you to express her own unhappiness.
Sell the house....A threat.
No sex....A threat.
Split up....A threat.


Tell her you have a date to sell the house and see how white her face goes.

I learned a new aspect about my wife when this TG issue came up. She says things out of fear or confusion that she really does not think through or mean. She dropped a few bombshells on me right out of the blue which sent me to hell and back. Months later, after many re-visitations of the events and her behavior afterwards, I have concluded that she did not mean those things. I have said those kind of things myself when pushed to the breaking point. I view it as the fear in her crying out, in agony. I feel for you that you have to go though it too.

Melissa dear I am so sorry to hear about this .I had similar problems with my years ago.I di however find an incredible woman, my best friend then we dated and now happily married 10 years.We made love 2-3 times every day until a few years ago,I blamed my cding.She did not but the point is we communicate about everything.I do agree with some of our sisters here that this is not soley a cd thing but it is being used as a mask to hide more serious underlying issues.I strongly urge you to go to counseling if your goal is to save your marriage for the sake of love.
I would also concider this,she may be feeling that she has lost you to cding in which case you need to assure her that it is a part of you,of who you are deep inside and that she is still the most important thing in your life.Suprise her some day with a fancy candle light dinner,roses and your goal...not sex but rather to assure her of you r love and that you want to understand her feelings.Take her out as you did when you were dating,show her you want to be more than just her husband but to be there for her to share in the intimacy that can only be had by two people who are truely in love.As you walk by her give her a tender touch,touch should never be under estimated,we all need it.Try to keep sex out of it as much as possible and let it come in its own time and it will.The most important thing is to assure her of the depth of your love and to let her know just how much she really means to you.The very best of luck to you Melissa.:hugs:

You might want to start a secret bank account, and start hideing some of your assets. With a few exceptions, crossdressing and marriage don't work out very well.

All I can tell you is my own experience. When I told my girl friend about being a CD she did the freak and we broke up. About 3 months later we got back together but that only lasted for about four months and she broke up with me again. She could not deal with the CDing despite the fact that I never dressed in front of her.

It has been my experience that once a woman has made up her mind it very rarely changes. It sounds to me like she has already made up her mind.

She said that clearly I was not going to stop CDing and she will never accept it and so she wanted to know when we should sell the house and separate.

Hi

I don't think I can really help much here...I know I wouldn't want to live in a relationship where my partner despised me.

Anyway if my wife had said that to me at breakfast, the house would be for sale at lunchtime, and I suppose our marriage would be over too. Some one who loves you does not give those sorts of ultimatums, they would search for a win/win, so the love is gone....and I would be too.

Melissa, went through the same thing over the past year. All I can say is every relationship is different in it's own unique way. My ex wife would not even consider going to counseling at all, mainly because she was in counseling before in a prior marraige that also ended up in divorce. I still love my ex wife but I know that I can't change the person I am and it would be unfair to her and myself to remain married. And having to live my life under a microscope because of what I have done in our relationship is just not fair or possible for me to do. And I no that she would never permit me to go to gender counseling if we where still married. The sad part is when I reflect back I was not really the husband to her for the last three years of our marraige. I started making excuses to stay home so I could dress up while she wasn't there, and there were many occasions where she almost caught me in the act. I thought that my transgender thoughts would go away when I got married but as I have gotten older they only get stronger and more intense as I have gotten into my mid forties. At least I think that she is beginning to realize that this is just something I was born with and there is no way to prevent it from happening. We had a long discussion on the telephone about it the other night and told her that it would not be fair to her or myself to keep living the way we have been. And I don't want to scare you but the odds are against you in recogciling with your spouse. I have only two friends that I know out of the many TS's that I have as aquintances that remained married. Only about 5% of married couples will stay together when one of the spouses transitions, they are the few and fortunate. But than I can't really help you out we all have to make our own decisions and do what is best for ourselves. Whatever happens don't give up on yourself, material things don't matter in this world, our own happiness and self acceptence is what really matters in the end.:2c:

Well this is one of those threads where a lot of good advice has been posted. My life has had three marriages - four or five counsellors - you'd think I'd have lots to say. But I have issues that make my experiences of questionable relevance.

I'd venture this, everyone's right, and everyone's wrong. Your choices are not "either-or" they are infinite. Your path is your path. Go for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Stephenie S

She tells you that her biggest thrill would be for you two to go out to eat and to a game as two guys. TWO GUYS, Melissa!! Can you believe that??? Your wife wants to parade around town with you as TWO GUYS. This is your beautiful, sexy, wife saying all this.

---

Hey, careful, that's my second wife you're talking about . . . (I'm not kidding. . . its what can happen when two people living in two different closets hook-up - me the totally repressed CD/wannabe MTF marries the equally repressed wannabe FTM/lesbian - it sure explained a lot when we got our closet doors unstuck :heehee: Like I said, my issues make my advice on dealing with a GG about CD-ing of questionable relevance)

If she is so "easily" to give up then you have a problem.

Do you love her and want to stay together?

If so then you have to win her back.:hugs:

Stop the CDing.

Start dating again; Pick her up at work for lunch. Take her to dinner. Go to movies. Buy her a sexy teddy.

She needs to understand that CD’ers are not gay so if you can get a book or a paper on CDing and get her to read it, it would help.

If she is still not interested then you will need to think about either choosing between her or CDing, if it is not too late. I gather there are no kids and that helps.

I would stay with my wife even if things broke down, just to keep the family together.

PS consider she could be seeing someone and this is her way to put the blame on you.

Sorry for the long winded response, but I thought it would be useful to recap some of the wonderful ideas along with some thoughts of my own. Perhaps this dialog will be of value to others who are having the same struggle that I am.

First of all I would like to thank all of you for your wonderful responses. There is lots of food for thought here. I pulled out some of the ideas/thoughts that caught my attention and I thought that I would throw some additional commentary in. First of all to provide some further background, my wife has known about my CDing for almost 10 years now and when she first discovered she threw out all of my things, totally freaked out, told me to stop (which I by and large did, except for one brief period, up until this past spring when I came out to her again). When first discovered I tried talking to her about it, tried getting help (councelling, books, articles, spouses of other CDs) and she wanted none of it, sex came to a complete halt for a year after that and then when we did have sex again it was maybe a couple of time a year for the past decade with the odd moment when for reasons I cannot explain she would get hyper sexual for a few weeks and then it would all come to a grinding halt (this happened about two or three times in the last decade). She uses anti-depressants a lot now (which I know kills one's libido) and I have tried to get her to stop taking them and instead work through the issues. During this past year we have gone to counselling which did not help and I gave her articles, books, etc...which she did not, for the most part read/use. I have offered to connect her up with spouses of other CDs, go to CD meetings etc...none of which she has been willing to go to. She says she understands what CDing is and yet I know she doesn't. She has said now that she accepts that it is not going away and so reluctantly allows me to maintain a wardrobe, go to CD meetings, dinners, events and out with CD friends. She has withdrawn all intimacy (a position she took this past June after saying that she has considered all of the CDing thing carefully) but she still wants me to be affectionate,cuddly, huggy/kissy with her. She wants me to sit and watch TV with her at night and to rub her feet and to say terms of endearment to her. She just no longer wants sex with me. She wants me to continue to sleep in the same bed with her and she wants me to snuggle and cuddle in bed (just no sex). It drives me nuts. Anyway...some thoughts on your wonderful thoughts, thanks so much for the feedback as there are some good things to think about here.

================================================


- take her out on dates, make her feel very special, loved, make her feel like we did when we first went out together, get her flowers

I have tried on many occassions to get her to go out on dates even before this happened. I have tried many ways to make her feel special and while I know I am not a saint and I have messed up as all husbands do, I have tried and she continually refuses to go out. Not sure why, though I really like the idea and I think that it would help us connect. She does like to go out to movies so I leverage that to get her out.And the few times that we have just gone out for lunch together she has really enjoyed so I know she does like this. I think that this is a good thing to keep working with. I have also spontaneously gotten her flowers which she does like, perhaps I need to do this more.

- counselling - but it may not work if she has made up her mind, make sure the councellor is familiar with TG issues

As stated counselling has not yet worked but in the new year I will find another counsellor and try again.

- state reasons we married each other - ask what sort of relationship I want with a partner a year from now, 5 yrs, 10 yrs, what qualities must a partner have for me to accept them and be happy - do it twice and then go through a similar exercise with my wife - find out about her expectations

This is an excellent suggestion. I like the idea of evaluating what each of us wants going forward, as that may have changed from when we first got together. We may find that we no longer have a common ground or we may find that the ground is just a bit slippery and we need to do some work to regain a shared vision. The good and the bad of it is that we either find that we want to be together or we realize that it no longer makes sense to be together. There is a head on nature to this thought that is good, scary because I may not like the truth that it reveals, but good nonetheless.

- confirmation that there is no expiry date on sex

I was happy to hear that sex does not have an expiry date ;-)

- once the lovemaking stops - for a prolonged period - the marriage is pretty well cooked

The love making has stopped for all intents and purposes other than small fits and starts for 10 years. Based on this I suspect that the marriage is not only cooked, it is dry an leathery. I expect that this could be a true statement because I believe that a healthy sex life is important for a healthy marriage.

- the statement about the house was a shake up tactic

I agree that the statement on her part was extreme and perhaps meant as a wake up call that she is not expecting to exercise yet but is threatening to do if things do not change. I can look at this as a good thing, a trigger to get new things happening or a bad thing in that it is a very negative and extreme and unfair tactic on her part.

- contact a lawyer

Always a good suggestion and I have considered that for the new year too.

- hide away some assets

There is already a set of assets set aside into three piles, hers, mine and ours.

- communicate about issues that have changed since we first started out together

Agreed, this needs to be done. Ties into the notion of assessing our vision for a marriage and whether it is still a joint or a seperate future.

- reassure her that my CDing is not a threat

I have done that many many many times.

- show her how being a CDer helps me to understand her better

I feel that it does but she does not agree and has said so. She wants me to be a hairy, chest thumping typical male and not a empathetic girlie man.

- go shopping with her and see if she appreciates my advice and suggestions

I have tried this many times and she always says the only reason that I like to go shopping is because I want these things for myself. In point of fact we find things for her and never look for things for me, I find her nice things that she agrees are good choices for her and yet she still gets angry that I go clothing shopping with her. She has a problem with a man doing this and knowing about style and fashion. It is very weird.

- accept that you are a CD and that that is not going to change and don't let her tell me otherwise

She understands now that I am a CD and that that will never change.

- difficult to understand why a wife's love can be conditional like this

I agree. I thought it was for better or worse, warts and all. I guess I was incorrect in that assumption, love between spouses is indeed conditional after all.

- there may be a deeper mistrust behind her lack of acceptance

I am trying to get to that hopefully through relationship counselling.

- pay more attention to her, show her that I am there for the long haul, start some new projects with her

After 10 years of this problem she should understand that and after a decade I am starting to tire of all of this. I now know there are women out there who will accept this much more than my wife does and I sometimes question whether it is easier to give up this and find someone else who accepts or to continue to fight the good fight. I want life to be about joy not constant struggle and I feel that I have struggled a long time. That being said I will give it a wee bit more time, but my patience is running out.

- it seems done

It does, doesn't it.

- stick with it, be kind and caring and understanding

I have been, boy have I been.

- surprise her with things and make her feel at ease and don't pressure her for sex

I have surprised her many times, in fact the gifts I got her this Xmas will really surprise her. I no longer bother her about sex so no worry about any pressuring there. I tried many times but after being beaten back at every turn I got the hint and gave up.

- go on a trip with her

She wants to go on a trip this spring so assuming we can hang in together that long this may happen.

- show my wife she is my world and cut down on the CDing a bit

I have shown her many times that she is my world and I completely stopped CDing for almost a decade for her and it still did not change anything.

- serious heart to heart chats

Yes, communication at a very authentic level is important and again ties in with discovering if there is still a shared vision.

- ask her if she is afraid that I want to transition or if she is afraid of being a lesbian

I have assured her many times I do not want to transition and I have never even once suggested that she and I make love with me dressed. In fact I do not have any interest in making love to her while I am dressed en femme so that has never been an issue for me though she says that it is something that she thinks that I want to do and I keep telling her that I don't.

- my wife is having trouble with this because it is a big deal, empathize with her, accept that it will require a great deal of understanding from her to get past this, accept that it is really bothering her and freaks her out

The post about empathy makes a great deal of sense and I can see that it is a big deal to her. Empathy works both ways. I try to understand her, she has to meet me half way (which she isn't). So I agree that it is a big deal and that it will always be hard for her to understand and accept, hence the reason thta I am asking her to open her mind a bit. I believe that small steps towards the thing that she fears/dislikes may help get her past some of this. I do not push this in her face, she has never seen me dressed (live or in picture), I do not try to force anything on her, all I ask is that she try and discuss this with me so that we can find a common ground. It is difficult for her, I get that, it is also difficult for me and I want her to see that too. In fact it was for failing health reasons that I had to re-emerge. I could see that my anger and repression were so severe that it was killing me, once I re-emerged, once that weight was off my shoulder, once I realized I could accept this part of me with love, without guilt, my health started to improve. I could see there was a direct correlation between my mental state and my health. I am not completely well but I am much better than I was.

- call her bluff to sell the house and see what happens

Extreme but at some point perhaps the right tactic if she cannot be brought around by gentler methods.

- she is saying this out of fear

I agree that there is an element of fear that she is still fighting, a fear of losing me to something. I can see that that may be a big part of the reason for the threat. Perhaps she is feeling backed into a corner. Hopefully counselling and heart to heart chats will start to reveal the fears so that she and I can deal with them.

- reassure her, let her know that she has not lost me to the CDing

I do and I will continue to do.

- wouldn't want to live in a relationship where my partner despised me. Anyway if my wife had said that to me at breakfast, the house would be for sale at lunchtime, and I suppose our marriage would be over too. Some one who loves you does not give those sorts of ultimatums, they would search for a win/win, so the love is gone....and I would be too.

That is part of the difficulty that brought this all to the surface again this year. My health was suffering and much of it was because she still despised the CD part even though we never talked of it. I knew that that was an issue we had to resolve. Our marriage was stuck. We need to find a win/win place rather than being in a situation where she feels the need to give ultimatums. I need to understand where the threat is triggered from. THere must be a reson for this. I don't like the tactic but it has gotten my attention.

- "I thought that my transgender thoughts would go away when I got married but as I have gotten older they only get stronger and more intense as I have gotten into my mid forties."

Me too.

- "Whatever happens don't give up on yourself, material things don't matter in this world, our own happiness and self acceptence is what really matters in the end."

I won't


- Do you love her and want to stay together?

We have been together for 25 years and have lots of good memories, history and four children together. I would not have stuck around all these years and tried to find a solution if I didn't...so yes. But I have my limits and she is pushing me to those limits.

- She needs to understand that CD’ers are not gay so if you can get a book or a paper on CDing and get her to read it, it would help.

I have gotten lots of material for her (which she won't read) and answered all the tough questions many times.

- If she is still not interested then you will need to think about either choosing between her or CDing

I cannot give up CDing so I may have to give up her, no matter how much I love her. If she loved me then she would understand and accept that i cannot stop being who I am.

================================================== =========================

Once again thanks for all the wonderful responses and you have all given me more food for thought. I will try and hang in there a bit further and try these suggestions. I will keep you posted on how things progress and again thanks for caring and sharing your ideas.

Huggs
Melissa

Dear Melissa,

I'll shoot from the hip, sometimes things just don't work out in the end.

I know it's hard, it hurts like hell.

I went thru a split 3 &#189; years ago with a 10 year relationship, very much like your describing now; right out of the blue I'm hit with I want to end this. My CDing was not the catalyst. (when we split she was 33 I was 42).

The thing is most women just don't wake up one day and think "screw this I want out", they tend to analyse things over and over again, they get it right with them first.

My ex said she'd been thinking about this for 2 years (previous), sh*t I had no idea. It hit me really hard, I was in total shock :eek:

Looking back on it now, the signs were there. I however was too blind, to absorbed, to see them.

As much as events like these really turn our immediate world into a nose dive, and we start to grasp at any hope we can muster, I now believe that it was a blessing.

One door closes another opens.

3 &#189; years on I'm in a far better relationship; an equal partnership, my business is far more productive and my SO accepts my CDing; I'm 1000&#37; happier in my life. (I'm 45 my SO is 49 sex has never been better).

Just some food for thought from the other side of the fence.

Another Thought - You mentioned that your SO is 55, could it be menopause? The change in hormones affect all women differently, some, experience total mood swings and became in some case totally different people in their outlook.

As you mentioned her regard to sex as being not very interested, I'm wondering if this maybe the reason...



hugs

x

beckii

I feel your pain and anguish, Melissa, honestly I do because your situation is almost the mirror image of my own. My wife wanted closeness without intimacy as well but how genuine is that really?You are doing your best to sort this out. I love my wife as you love yours but she let me know with no uncertainty that she could no longer share her life with a man/woman. In my case, once the children were all grown up and moved away, she made the first move. Although we are not divorced, we are basically separated and she no longer lives here. While we share the house as a common asset, our marriage is basically a formality. Be that as it may, I'm in no hurry to change the situation. I just have to live it a day, a week, a month, a year at a time. She is taking care of her Mother who is not well. I've asked her previously what she will do if her Mom passes away. She had no answer for me. I made the offer for her to move back here if that happens. I also considered putting Ericka on the shelf for awhile (if not forever)to get her back. I needed something in return however which was the chance to prove to her I could do that. She refused my offer saying that since I've disappointed her so many times in the past in that respect, she can no longer "trust" me to fulfill my word. In other words, I would have to prove I could do it without her being here before she would even consider coming back.There are also other conditions such as returning to the church that kicked me out for being Ericka and "repenting". I cannot do that and still remain true to myself. There seems to be no winning for either side in this situation. In the meantime, I've decided, since I'm here alone now and retired to see if it really is feasible for me to be Ericka full time. I'll find out if it is truely realistic to do that. I'm still partly Richard and always will be but being Ericka has made me self directed and empowered. If I find out I can, indeed , do it then I will be the one to make the next move. The bottom line is that I love my wife dearly but have to be my real self. There is no compromising on that any more. Again, I hope you gain the strength and fortitude for whatever you need to do. No one ever said it was going to be easy for sure.:happy: Ericka

Hi Melissa,

I hope you donn`t mind I am Jacquies SO and she and I just finished reading your posting, It truely touched our hearts. Jacquie is 50 and I am 49 we relate to your situation, we have been married for 30 years in August and I have shared Jacquies CD for all of it although it has been hard to truely seperate the two untill reacently, we have had one hell of a journey and almost gave up once but I am so glad I hung in and didn`t walk away. Have you ever thought that your wife may be going through the change (menapause) as in some cases It does play havic on our hormoanes and I know my sex drive dropped off and infact is still not back fully but jacquie has thought of me and what I might be going through instead of her needs, so it may not be the CD which is the problem at all.How long has she known about your CD?
I made my promise in Gods House for better or worse and meant it,because I have hung in there and haven`t walked away Jacquie and I now share a wounderful life as best girlfriends and John and I have a great relationship in our marrage in every way because we now understand each other and I play a huge suportive part in the CD side of our marrage.
So you see it can work and does work but it takes a lot of understanding on both sides and a hell of a lot of committment, don`t be to harsh on your wife
If the love is there and I mean really there together it will work, we are much less judgemental of each other these days Thank God, and our life together can only get better and better, we together have lots of CD friends and also straight friends we just seperate the two.
We wish you all the beast for the festive season and pray that the new year will bring you and your wife pease and happines.

God Bless Jacquie Randall and her SO

Hi Melissa,

I hope you donn`t mind I am Jacquies SO and she and I just finished reading your posting, It truely touched our hearts. Jacquie is 50 and I am 49 we relate to your situation, we have been married for 30 years in August and I have shared Jacquies CD for all of it although it has been hard to truely seperate the two untill reacently, we have had one hell of a journey and almost gave up once but I am so glad I hung in and didn`t walk away. Have you ever thought that your wife may be going through the change (menapause) as in some cases It does play havic on our hormoanes and I know my sex drive dropped off and infact is still not back fully but jacquie has thought of me and what I might be going through instead of her needs, so it may not be the CD which is the problem at all.How long has she known about your CD?
I made my promise in Gods House for better or worse and meant it,because I have hung in there and haven`t walked away Jacquie and I now share a wounderful life as best girlfriends and John and I have a great relationship in our marrage in every way because we now understand each other and I play a huge suportive part in the CD side of our marrage.
So you see it can work and does work but it takes a lot of understanding on both sides and a hell of a lot of committment, don`t be to harsh on your wife
If the love is there and I mean really there together it will work, we are much less judgemental of each other these days Thank God, and our life together can only get better and better, we together have lots of CD friends and also straight friends we just seperate the two.
We wish you all the beast for the festive season and pray that the new year will bring you and your wife pease and happines.

God Bless Jacquie Randall and her SO

I'm so sorry for your situation. Here is the big question. Does your wife still love you? My wife and I say "I love you everyday". Those are wonderful words to hear. However, they are only words. The true test is living your life for and with the other person, aware of their needs and trying your best to fill therm. True love is UNCONDITIONAL. She wants you to fill her needs. What about yours? No wife has to like CDing, No wife has to see their partner dressed. No wife has to support CDing. As a matter of fact, no wife has to be involved with CDing at all. CDing is personal and it is a need of the CD. The only thimg that a wife must do is realize that it is a part of the CD and accept that. Other that that, it really doesn't have to come into play.
The cuddeling is not for your benefit. Maintaning the house is not for your benefit it is for her mother. No sexual relationship is not for your benefit.
What about your needs?
The refususal to continue counseling, read material or even acknoledge you are who you are doesn't indicate a positive desire to continue the relationship. Marriage is a partnership which BOTH must participate especially when problems occur and they do in every marriage.
This my second marriage. The first ended because it wasn't good in that way even after 10 years. It hurt that it ended but I survived and have been married for almost 30 years.
So the question here is simple. Do you feel the love? If not, you know the answer yourself.

:hugs:

Penny

I realize this your side and others have made suggestions which might be of benefit but at what
piont is "you do" enough. You will pay a price for who your are but it should not be continual.

Melissa, I am sorry to say your relationship is over. She feels that you have the problem and why should she go to counciling. I really feel bad for you, because I was in this very situation and it turned out bad, very BAD. I pray that you never go through what I had to, but it sounds that you are going to. It is obvious that it is never going to work. Unless she for some unknown reason would come to light and see that LOVING a CD is not the end of the world. My wife (xwife now) was 35 and I was 45 when we split up. I found someone who was 50 when I was 45. I have been open as I was with my xwife about the CDing. Both knew from the very start of the relationship that I CD. I know it's hard, but I told them both the very first date that I was. My xwife says that I was addicted to sex and that was the problem. Let's see, Male, Sex, Well Ya, I am still addicted to sex. And I love to wear Female clothing. I am proud to be a CROSSDRESSER! If I were you I guess I would try to shock her and see if that really is what see wants (to breakup) You are not going to lose anything, you are already losing her. It just might save the relationship, if not, then nothing is going to change it. Even if you tell her you will get rid of everything and you do. She will still leave you, just because she remembers you dressed. Sorry! But the truth hurts, like HELL!

Becky,

I really appreciate your words of encouragement. I know that there will be a great deal of pain if my wife and I break up but I also see that there is a silver lining to that cloud in that I will be able to be more true to myself on my own than I am able to be now. I also know that any future relationship will have to be one that includes total openess and acceptance of my TG side. I will not go into another relationship where that is not the case. Finally, I will make sure that I find someone who feels that a healthy sex life is a positive thing in building intimacy and a strong rich relationship.

Ericka,

I appreciate your insights and sharing. I agree that we are going through a similar process. I feel that there are many of us who go through this, some manage to keep things on the rails and others don't. All I know is that I have discovered a part of myself that cannot be put away anymore. There are no doubts in my mind anymore about that. This is not a question about what do I love more, her or CDing. Not CDing is not an option for me. The only solution for staying with my wife is a solution that includes CDing. She does not have to be a part of it but she has to accept that it is a part of me, who I am and how I spend part of my life. The one thing that I do know is that if we do break up I will be spending a great deal more time as Melissa than I do now. So my compromise to stay with her is to CD less than I want to.

Jacquie,

I really appreciate your input. I wish that more SO's would contibute to this so that I can get a more representative response. It is easy to see things only from our own CD side of things and I am looking for new ideas and insights. I am also accepting that my love for her is wearing thin. A part of me wants to give it all one more college try and a part of me wants to say I surrender, I have had enough, it is time to move on. As you can see I am on the fence post waffling about what to do next. I have purchased a great many books to help me gain better insight into the relationship part but there do not seem to be any good relationship books where CDing is a factor. There are CD books that touch upon relationship, but none that focus on it as a dominant relationship factor - hmmmm -perhaps when I get through all of this I will have to write one ;)

Penny,

You are right, it must be a balance. In a relationship each party has to consider the others needs. I try to consider hers though I am sure that I am not as fuly considerate as I could be and she must consider and account for mine as well.

Amy,

I have not totally given up, but it does not look good. I am not a quitter, however, I am also not a masochist. I will give my all to something worth the effort, however, she has to want to step up to the plate too. I guess we will see in the new year if she is willing to work through this further or not. I figure that 2007 is the make or break year for my relationship. I will be cautiously optimistic.

Thanks to all of you for your thoughts.

Huggs
Melissa

Melissa,
I am so sorry that you are in this position. I am in a similar position where I have no problem with the crossdressing per say but I have a big problem with the relationship. In my situation I am lacking blocks of the foundation. In your situation I am not sure if you are lacking blocks or if the blocks were there and they are just crumbling.

I am no longer willing to comprimise my feelings. I was willing to give it up. I was weary, worn out and down right feeling that there was nothing more to lose. This is when I started to get my hubby's attention. This is all very recent mind you so I will not say that it is working. All I know is that I have gotten my point across. It is broken as much as it can be broke. It sort of sounds like that is what you are saying. Maybe my willingness to let it go was what turned my hubby around I dont' know. I am quite sure that it is different for everyone. The fact that you have been living this way for a long time is proof to her that you will continue to do so unless you get the point across that it is no longer working for you. It may be that you will have to be willing to let your marriage go. You need to mean what you say and say what you mean.

Now everyone has a choice to keep working on a marriage or partnership or not. Sounds like you have been doing all of the working and she has been doing really nothing. Maybe you should tell her point blank that if that is all you mean to her after all of these years then you have no choice but to sell the house and move on. Living wihtout sex for a decade would be totally unacceptable and makes you pretty much a saint in my eyes for sure.

Everything really great in my life came to me with hard work and a lot of effort. The same can be said in a relationship. If your are not working at it it may not be worth it. I would point blank ask her why you mean so little to her after all of these years. Ask her also why she thinks that she is above giving what she is asking from you?

The women who accept our husbands crossdressing are women of all walks of life. We are not weirdo's, freaks, deviants or satanist. We are tax payers, givers, intelligent, hard working , spiritual/religious women who hapen to love men who wear women's clothes. I will bet you if you could really see into the lives of the most revered person in your community you might see soemthing even worse. What about the governor who came out as gay? He was having sex with men in dark alleys without his wife's knowledge exposing her to potential deadly illness. In my mind that would be worse.

The bottom line is that you deserve the life that you want also. You may have to make some tough choices. We will be here for your support and your wife also if she will come. Us gg's will embrace her and help her in any way.
I will pray for enlightenment and a positive change. :love: Kitty

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by melissacd

I thought it was for better or worse, warts and all. I guess I was incorrect in that assumption, love between spouses is indeed conditional after all.

---

'Better or worse' seems a fairly medieval conception, aimed to imprison womyn, which plays out as so much flowery rhetoric nowadays. We all, and should, have our limits.

I know, from bitter experience, that bad marriages have a certain momentum and inertia, timidity & fear of the unknown tend to prolong them past their expiration date.