gender undefined

I have spent many many years in the dark. Who am I really? What am I really? I have been actively CDing in prvate for 12 years, passively (bare minimums) a lot longer. I did not struggle with shame or morality issues. I really liked it and saw nothing wrong with it, though I would not push it in public.

More recently I have been examining what this is all about for me. This site, looking at the various threads on liking being a guy, liking being a woman etc. have helped greatly, as had the support and encouragement I get from Louise.

As a kid I was nerdy, shy, intraverted, afraid of girls. Growing up in a remote location didn't help. It took me 40 years to grow out of that. The first aricle of clothing I ever pruchased for myself was by mail order as a teenager, sexy mens underwear. I never struggled with gender identity back then. No 'am I male / am I female' dilemma. I was male be definition, there was nothing to think about. But so lonely.

I am now beginning to understand what was going on. The confines of the male role just WERE NOT WORKING FO ME. I could not relate to girls - after all they were the OPPOSITE sex. (sidebar - I get such a thrill seeing my kids have guy friends and gal friends without sexual inuendo these days.) I did not relate to boys: physical, crude, macho.

Then life happened. College, work, marriage, family... I got on with it. A girl left her white fur jacket at my house after a party when I was 21. I returned it to the store where she worked the next day - not carrying it in my hand, but wearing it over my sholders! She wasn't there but I saw this REALLY CUTE girl there. I guess she thought I was cute too, even with the jacket. Apparently she decided there and then that she would marry me. :love: That was Louise - maybe she should have seen the writing on the wall.

If you have read our posts you know that Louise transcended the barrier of struggle vs enthusiasm of my CDing a few months ago. For the first time in my life I was free to think for myself about this phenomenon. I reflect on what might have been different had I been able to be genderless (or genderfull - new word, alert webster). It would have been exciting to be able to associate with and relate to people without the gender barriers. I now believe that the gender barrier wall blocked me from relating to people in virtually ANY other way. I never got past the door. Its lonely in there.

It took about 20 years in the real world to LEARN how to relate to people. (Louise is a good coach.) To not be afraid of speaking up. To stand proud. To be an individual. Old habits die hard, and it is still a work in progress. But when the walls come down, the sun shines in, and it is a beautiful world.

So to borrow a line from an old movie, "I am not an animal! I am a human being!" I am transgendered. I am proud of who I am, what I do in this world, what I do for this world and how I present to this world. I reject gender identity as anything but a physical representation of body form. I don't want to be male of female. I will be me. I look forward to exploring that (me) more and more for the rest of my life.

It's not about the clothes (for me, your milage may vary) but one does need to wear clothes. I would like to wake up each day and open the closet to pick a style that fits my mood. pants skirt shirt or blouse, makeup or not. The ultimate unisex wardrobe. And then get on with life.

Well thats my story and I'm sticking to it. Long post. Thank you for your patience.

but now I am clued in well and proper and am enjoying who you are so very much. What a journey it has been!

And I must say what a fabulous post! I thought *I* was supposed to be the writer in this family. (big pout!!!)

as always I love you and will continue to support you in all ways.


Your Wife and Partner in this life and beyond,


Louise.:love:

Well, that was a fine post. I'm glad to hear Carin's story and think it's fantastic.:thumbsup: :happy:

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Originally Posted by Salandra

Well, that was a fine post. I'm glad to hear Carin's story and think it's fantastic.:thumbsup: :happy:

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he was 22! I guess we were meant to be.



Louise.

I love posts like these, it really gives you a sense of knowing the person a bit better! well done Carin and Louise, but mainly well done Louise for embracing Carin for the person she is inside and out! :hugs:

Carin i hope its ok for me to give your lady some flowers :):love:

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Originally Posted by Kieron Andrew

I love posts like these, it really gives you a sense of knowing the person a bit better! well done Carin and Louise, but mainly well done Louise for embracing Carin for the person she is inside and out! :hugs:

Carin i hope its ok for me to give your lady some flowers :):love:

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fear is what held me back for too long. And Carin suffered through that with as much understanding as she could offer. *MY fear was about ME. Carin, whether in female or male mode, is a terrific all round person. S/he has a fabulous relationship with each of our children and is a superb father. as a wife I could not ask for better. She is my soulmate.


Louise.

[SIZE="2"]Getting all misty eyed here. No joke, it really tugs at my heart strings. If any thing ever happened to my wife,..............I would be so lost with out her. :sad: [/SIZE]

Hi Carin, that was a wonderful heartfelt post. Both you and Louise are treasured members here because you are both so loving, thoughtful, articulate and brave. It's wonderful reading about your experiences and very helpful.

I know what you mean about the loneliness and not relating to either gender - not belonging. Although I was good friends with girls when I was young, as soon as we went through puberty all that changed and I became afraid of them for some reason - I guess because I never felt fully male so didn't feel I measured up. I never had sisters so suddenly the people who once were my best friends became strange creatures to me. And of course I never connected with guys, so that does indeed lead to a painfully lonely existence.

Fortunately I met someone who has become my best friend and partner to share life with, and together we have both grown...but it wasn't until I discovered my true nature and accepted who I really am that I've been able to let that sun shine in too Carin. I totally relate to what you have gone through and love the way you have written about it. Your post really describes to a T (G - hehehe) the way I feel today. Thank you for sharing that. :happy: :hugs: :love:

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Originally Posted by Carin

It's not about the clothes (for me, your milage may vary) but one does need to wear clothes. I would like to wake up each day and open the closet to pick a style that fits my mood. pants skirt shirt or blouse, makeup or not. The ultimate unisex wardrobe. And then get on with life.

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Hi Carin,

Great story, and not a million miles different to mine except that I married Marla when I was 40 :happy:

I totally identify with the concept of being "somewhere in the middle" when it comes to how I feel about myself. I know I am not a (TS) woman, but I also don't consider or identify myself as a man, that's to say not in the sense of what every other man seems to be like. I think I am "me" ,whatever that is, (genderqueer?) I have a wife very similar (it would seem) to yours in that she has helped me come to terms with my thoughts and feelings and accept myself for where I am on the gender continuum and in the process has helped steer me to happiness. :happy:

Hugs
Rachel

Carin; Beautifully said.

You know, some days you just browse through here, jumping from post to post, saying "ya.. i guess." or "hmm.. that's odd" and may or may not comment.

Then.. There are posts like this! The ones that just resonate with you, and you say "yeah. That is what it was like back then."

Only we took different approaches to being lonely. I recognized that I was introverted, and no, I didn't have many friends pre-university. But, I soon realized that after I graduate, part of my job will be to work WITH people, and direct them. To get over my "shyness", I joined the university chapter of Toastmasters, so I could get comfortable with being the center of attention as necessary.

I still struggle with awkwardness whenever I meet new people. I am very careful with my words and phrasings until I get to know them. I don't let ppl see my personality until I decide if it is a person that I'd like to let in.

Thank you for sharing! :hugs:

Denied

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Originally Posted by Carin's Wife GG

he was 22! I guess we were meant to be.



Louise.

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Sounds like it. That girl who left the jacket was pushing Carin your direction.

15! Can't help imagining this ( though probably didn't happen ) :
"Mom & Dad, this is my boyfriend, he's 22 & he's a crossdresser."
Them: :eek:

What a nice, thoughtful post. Whether you are CD or TG, at some point, we all have to just say "I am good with it!". That is me.

Wonderful thread. Thank you for sharing a part of your life. It is inspiring indeed. I love what you wrote and I quote

"I reject gender identity as anything but a physical representation of body form. I don't want to be male of female. I will be me. I look forward to exploring that (me) more and more for the rest of my life."

I really agree wholeheartedly. To be who we are and not some categorized, pigeon holed, dissected frog, but true individuals who some day maybe accepted and loved, but until that happens, if it happens, we need to love ourselves and each other.

Thanks Carin

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Well thats my story and I'm sticking to it.

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Thanks, Carin; I am sure many of us read your post and thought, "that is also our story."

Valerie

Carin & Louise,

You are so inspiring. What a great post you've composed, Carin.

There have been many moments since I first logged on here that have given me strength, hope, and a sense that I'm not completely alone in the world.
The two of you are so loving and strong for each other. Thank you for sharing that.
:love:

"for better or worse" so many people take that so lightly, it IS inspiring to see someone who doesnt. I remember when I was very young,seeing my grandparents sit at the kitchen table, holding hands, staring into each others eyes, and generally looking like lovestruck teens. this after over 50 years of marriage. It taught me the value of marriage and helped me to wait for the right one.( Thank God she found me!) I can picture the two of you the same way, staring into each others eyes, looking back on a lifetime of loving each other, and i hope that your happiness lasts you all of your days! it seems from the stories i have read, those of us lucky enough to have a partner in our lives who is there for us, and can be strong enough to survive the trials we place upon them as we grow into ourselves, are truly blessed. I cannot imagine making this journey without the love of my wife,or without the peace of mind that comes from knowing there are good people here who have walked the path that i must take.

For us 'introverts' out there, my therapist got me to read this book and I found it really helpful in NOT feeling bad about being an introvert and NOT trying to force myself to be something I am not. A key thought in her book is that while extroverts gain energy by doing things and being around people, introverts gain energy by being quiet and contemplative. I found a lot of the societal guilt about being a 'recluse' or private person was removed when I saw myself that way. I recommend it. :thumbsup:

"The Introvert Advantage" by Marti Olsen Laney

http://www.popmatters.com/books/revi...dvantage.shtml

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Originally Posted by Carin

" . . . when the walls come down, the sun shines in, and it is a beautiful world.

It's not about the clothes (for me, your milage may vary) . . . I would like to wake up each day and open the closet to pick a style that fits my mood. pants skirt shirt or blouse, makeup or not. The ultimate unisex wardrobe. And then get on with life."

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Carin,

How revealing and heartfelt! It is too bad we can't be in Vegas at the same time b/c it would be more than "simply nice" to have had the double wedding/commitment ceremony we talked about -- it would have been a great honor having it with you and Louise!!! You and Louise are special people -- and even when I see something minor we don't necessarily agree on, I know that we can disagree without being disagreeable. You and Louise are intelligent, articulate, open-minded, willing to share, and eager to continue to grow. I greatly respect that!!!

Another set-back (re Vegas) has hit us -- Val had to have a lumpectomy this past Friday. At pesent we await the pathologist, so I don't know what our travel schedule will be -- everything is up in the air (and I hate chaos and uncertainty). Of course, Val is a bundle of nerves, so my main job is to take care of her and try and keep her calm.

{I believe in the power of prayer, especially when many are united in prayer, so if I might interject here: all prayers would be most welcome!}

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Originally Posted by Carin's Wife GG

*MY fear was about ME.

Carin, whether in female or male mode, is a terrific all round person. S/he has a fabulous relationship with each of our children and is a superb father. as a wife I could not ask for better. She is my soulmate.

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Louise,

I hope you don't mind it that I broke this paragraph in half, but I thought it was important to underscore that, first, the fear of CDing is on both sides of the street. True, we, the CD's have often lived with tremendous fear for many, many years. I think, though, that it should be emphatically noted that our SO's have to live with certain fears about CDing, too. Fears as real as ours -- and very significantly, all of you SO's have had much less time to process your own fears, concerns, and questions.

The second thing that really struck me in a most profound way was how you refer to Carin! It is like you are making it clear that Carin is your husband -- and yes, your wife, too, b/c you are split-aparts of each other. I hope that makes sense b/c I think it is absolutely beautiful! Maybe this, in part, is why it is so important to Carin and me to have a service where we are, respectively, the brides of you and Val. Read on . .

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Originally Posted by kerrianna

". . . the loneliness and not relating to either gender . . . "

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Kerrianna,

Funny you mentioned this (and I only excerpted a small part of what you said since the whole post is just a few posts above this), but while Val was in surgery, I was reading a psyhchology article. It spoke of how more and more "mainstream marriages" (and not just partners where the man is a CDer) are seeing both partners display androgynous personalities that are expressing the positive qualities of being both feminine and masculine. The article called it the melding of marital roles. This seems to be what Rachel was also saying . . .

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Originally Posted by Rachel Morley

I totally identify with the concept of being "somewhere in the middle" when it comes to how I feel about myself. I know I am not a (TS) woman, but I also don't consider or identify myself as a man, that's to say not in the sense of what every other man seems to be like. I think I am "me" ,whatever that is, (genderqueer?) I have a wife very similar (it would seem) to yours in that she has helped me come to terms with my thoughts and feelings and accept myself for where I am on the gender continuum and in the process has helped steer me to happiness.

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So, Rachel, maybe "genderqueer" isn't the right term -- maybe "Mr and Mrs Androgny" says it most accurately -- and with a whole lot more friendly sense of terminology?!! Whichever you decide to use, or Carin decides, or I decide, we are in the same boat! Male, yes -- but with a definite feminine dichotomy that is undeniable!!!

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Originally Posted by christina marie

"for better or worse" so many people take that so lightly, it IS inspiring to see someone who doesnt . . . I cannot imagine making this journey without the love of my wife,or without the peace of mind that comes from knowing there are good people here who have walked the path that i must take.

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How inspiring! Your grandparents were obviously special people -- and so are Louise and Carin, and you and your wife! I, too, cannot imagine making this journey without the love of my life -- my soulmate and split-apart -- Val!!!

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Originally Posted by Carin

I have spent many many years in the dark. Who am I really? What am I really?

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The more I think about this thread, Carin, the more impressed I am with your elegant, heartfelt writting style! And, it is more than just your thought-provoking style . . . it is how you express things with such clarity, sincerity, and meaning, which in turn, adds so much to our discussions.

Louise is such a great writer, too. IMHO, you both add so much to the discussions on this forum! I love succinct writers who exhibit passion regarding their topics! That said, the particular topic of this thread has tremendous importance subtending it -- have you ever felt that a certain article or book should be "must reading" for everybody?

i got quite emotional when i read this - you guys are great role-models, good to know you as friends,

love mitch

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Originally Posted by Barbara4242

Another set-back (re Vegas) has hit us -- Val had to have a lumpectomy this past Friday. At pesent we await the pathologist, so I don't know what our travel schedule will be -- everything is up in the air (and I hate chaos and uncertainty). Of course, Val is a bundle of nerves, so my main job is to take care of her and try and keep her calm.

{I believe in the power of prayer, especially when many are united in prayer, so if I might interject here: all prayers would be most welcome!}

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Barbara, I too have had (several) lumpectomies and am on a five year tamoxifin regimen. (are we leading double lives???) so I do know what Val is going through. all good thoughts and healing vibes being sent her way and to you too. Again my thoughts are with you and Val this weekend!

With love,



Louise.:love: :love: :love: :love: :love:

Love it! I'm become more confident in standing up for who I am, so it's great to hear others out there not afraid to take the fight to the bigots! A great manifesto, Carin. xx

I was stunned reading your post - it could have been MY story!
Thank you for sharing!

Kim

Note - started writing a LONG post here but decided it would be less than polite to hijack your post with my story. But yours sounds so close that it brought a lot of memories rushing in.
Hmm . . . maybe its time I start a new thread! lol

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Originally Posted by TxKimberly

I was stunned reading your post - it could have been MY story!
Thank you for sharing!

Kim

Note - started writing a LONG post here but decided it would be less than polite to hijack your post with my story. But yours sounds so close that it brought a lot of memories rushing in.
Hmm . . . maybe its time I start a new thread! lol

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we all need to hear from each other. It is what makes this such a great place.


love,


Louise.:love: :love: :love: :love:

PS: You know what's funny? Carin asked me not to hijack this post!!! I hope I haven't.

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Originally Posted by TxKimberly

I was stunned reading your post - it could have been MY story!
Thank you for sharing!

Kim

Note - started writing a LONG post here but decided it would be less than polite to hijack your post with my story. But yours sounds so close that it brought a lot of memories rushing in.
Hmm . . . maybe its time I start a new thread! lol

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I figured that I was not the only one. I put this out there so I could see it more clearly for myself, and maybe enable others to understand pieces of their lives also. A shoe that fits is a lot more comfortable to wear. If it has a 4" heel, so be it.

I look forward to your thread.

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Originally Posted by Carin

I figured that I was not the only one. I put this out there so I could see it more clearly for myself, and maybe enable others to understand pieces of their lives also. A shoe that fits is a lot more comfortable to wear. If it has a 4" heel, so be it.

I look forward to your thread.

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it is just not fair I tell you!



Louise.

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Originally Posted by Barbara4242

The more I think about this thread, Carin, the more impressed I am with your elegant, heartfelt writting style! And, it is more than just your thought-provoking style . . . it is how you express things with such clarity, sincerity, and meaning, which in turn, adds so much to our discussions.

Louise is such a great writer, too. IMHO, you both add so much to the discussions on this forum! I love succinct writers who exhibit passion regarding their topics! That said, the particular topic of this thread has tremendous importance subtending it -- have you ever felt that a certain article or book should be "must reading" for everybody?

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Thank you Barbara. This has been on my mind for a few weeks and I needed to get it out, both for myself, and for anyone (of any gender) who is challenged to understand the validity of being transgendered.

My best wishes to Val. She is in our hearts and thoughts, as you are too. We have worn those shoes also.

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Originally Posted by Rachel Morley

Hi Carin,

Great story, and not a million miles different to mine except that I married Marla when I was 40 :happy:

I totally identify with the concept of being "somewhere in the middle" when it comes to how I feel about myself. I know I am not a (TS) woman, but I also don't consider or identify myself as a man, that's to say not in the sense of what every other man seems to be like. I think I am "me" ,whatever that is, (genderqueer?) I have a wife very similar (it would seem) to yours in that she has helped me come to terms with my thoughts and feelings and accept myself for where I am on the gender continuum and in the process has helped steer me to happiness. :happy:

Hugs
Rachel

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Any chance of dinner halfway sometime? all girls of course!


Louise.

Its really hard to honestly tell you how reading this made me feel with out hijacking this thread. So i think I will just leave it at this, you two are awsome.

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Originally Posted by Fab Karen

Sounds like it. That girl who left the jacket was pushing Carin your direction.

15! Can't help imagining this ( though probably didn't happen ) :
"Mom & Dad, this is my boyfriend, he's 22 & he's a crossdresser."
Them: :eek:

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until I was older. as for the CDing they didn't know back then any more than I did but now they are very supportive. my mom always brings something for Carin when they visit from Ireland.


Louise.

Thank you, Carin and Louise, for sharing your stories and insights. As someone struggling with the question of who and what I am, I find a lot of helpful inspiration in you.

-Katie