One "you" or two?

Just a curiosity question, you know us GGs..

I've noticed some of you refer to yourselves in the third person when discussing your en femme selves, if I use the term correctly ;). For example, one might say about themselves CDed, "she likes to wear this" or "she thinks about that". Would you consider yourself one person, one being the female you and the male you in one body all the time or do you find yourself identifying with a different 'personality' for lack of a better word, when you're dressed en femme? I would think the experiences here will differ among you all.

Keep smilin', DD.

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Originally Posted by Dita's Daughter

I would think the experiences here will differ among you all.

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Hi DD,

I can only speak for myself, but I just can't get my head around being anything else but the one person I am. OK, I am a fairly girly guy in boy mode so I guess I don't differentiate between being in boy mode and being en femme that much (at least not in my head) so when I'm en femme or at work I am still me, it's just that I am feeling slightly different things about how I perceive myself (feeling either more or less feminine) ..... but I am still the same person - me!

My wife Marla and I made a promise to one another that when I was dressed I wouldn't "become someone else" ... there is no third person in our marriage. For us, it's worked out really well and whilst she doesn't call me Rachel in boy mode or anything (she calls me Angel) she does treat me the same whether I'm in boy mode or girl mode ... namely, she's very loving toward me. I should mention that my wife likes a feminine man and encourages me to express my feminine side in male mode quite a lot so it's easy for me to integrate the two sides into one.

It's all me. I may use the expressions "as Sal" or "as Rich" but it's only from a point of reference, especially since I've been trying to get my feelings straight lately. Just a different perspective really. That's my take on it anyway.:happy:

Hiya DD..you may want to look at this thread

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...ad.php?t=56996

With me it's am I one or am I three. It all depends where I am. In here I'm always L. When I'm dressed I'm L which is not that often right now. Most of the time I'm the male me, but when I'm on the internet I'm either L, the male me, or the shopkeeper. It all depends where I'm at on the internet or who I am talking too.

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Originally Posted by Dita's Daughter

Just a curiosity question, you know us GGs..

I've noticed some of you refer to yourselves in the third person when discussing your en femme selves, if I use the term correctly ;). For example, one might say about themselves CDed, "she likes to wear this" or "she thinks about that". Would you consider yourself one person, one being the female you and the male you in one body all the time or do you find yourself identifying with a different 'personality' for lack of a better word, when you're dressed en femme? I would think the experiences here will differ among you all.

Keep smilin', DD.

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Basically I am one person. However, I do shift identity depending on what mode I am in. En femme I am always Rosaliy. En Drab I am always my male person. No matter which mode and name I use, however, I am first and always one person altho there are playful times when I do refer to myself as two people.

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Originally Posted by Dita's Daughter

I've noticed some of you refer to yourselves in the third person when discussing your en femme selves . . . (f)or example, one might say about themselves CDed, "she likes to wear this" or "she thinks about that". Would you consider yourself one person, one being the female you and the male you in one body all the time or do you find yourself identifying with a different 'personality' for lack of a better word, when you're dressed en femme? I would think the experiences here will differ among you all.

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Well, first, you are right that our experiences will differ, but that is a testimony to the wide variety of participants on this forum. It is not just a forum with solely "mtf heterosexual crossdressers." This said, my own belief is that I have a dichotomous personality. It has its masculine side (or aspect) and it has a feminine side. Both exist, although one is usually acting more dominant than the other at any given point in time. I don't know how many have experienced this, but sometimes a CDer can be happily en femme (with his feminine personna in control) then something upsetting happens. A rush of testosterone in many subjects (though not all, b/c there are pysiological differences of various degrees, individual to individual) may suddenly send the person spiralling out of the feminine into the masculine. Not a whole lot of research on this, but it is being examined.

My personality may be odd, but it ain't split. Fortunately for the world there is only one me.

Good question,think of myself as claire at times even when i not dressed.abit concerned as just enroled in Spanish course and wondering in all the confusion of learning ill come out of the closet with ''me llamo Claire'' to the class?

So interesting. I speak two languages and I know when I'm .. sorry for the analogy here, it's the best I've got! When I'm more fluent in one language, I also think in that language. I guess I wonder if, like Sheri said, there is a more dominant tendency that brings out the third person perspective. Thanks, and I'll check out that thread Sherlyn :)

I am most often in male mode. Even when typing here. Not just attire, (but being 'dressed' helps), but there is a softer side that is unexplainable when 'en femme'.

When I speak in third person it is usually because my male side is unsure of something that I do while en femme.

An example is shopping. My male side HATES it. He is a tightwad. When he types, "Barbara has a shopping problem" he is both correct and in control of the rudder at that moment.

When I, Barbara, type in first person it is because I am feeling secure and open about my femme side. I can answer questions respond and it feels sincere and not contrived.

When he is uncertain about why it is he wears a dress at times, he refers to Barbara in third person.

This is a GREAT question, and answering it has been illuminating, I just realized that I am Barbara as I type this.

I think I handle feelings better as Barbara..


Edit: I just read Sher's older thread on this. I was STRIKING who chimed in that they don't.

I don't want to speak for anyone else, but Third Person seems more common with "Crossdressers" like me especially if we for the most part happily present in our birth gender most of the time.

Those that I would see (as an outsider) as truly "Transsexual" meaning for me they ARE the opposite gender to their apparent birth gender, don't seem to do this. If they are male, they are male so no matter what they wear they are him. If they are female, they are her regardless of clothes and environment. This held true for those that circumstances permit living their true gender 24/7 and those who would like to but cannot.

It is only those of us that think of ourselves as both genders or primarily one gender with a costume change that have this trait.

I now think it is a bit of a 'tell' for where we are on the ts/cd continuum.

There's just boring old little Lisa I'm afraid...

Time was, I had to be "fully dressed" incl makeup to be "in character" and feel comfortable here.
Now a days, I am Phyliss 99% of the time. No matter what I wear, or what "parts" may or may not be connected or augmented. "HE" is also me, but "he" goes to work and earns a living, and that's about it.

I don't actually use a feminine name except here in forums. At home my wife just calls me honey so I have no need for alternative names. I never felt comfortable with the idea of choosing another name for myself since it felt like an artificial process, kinda like choosing a name for a character in a book I am writing. I don't relate in the slightest to the name Satrana or any other name.

Since I don't think of myself as an actual woman, it never seemed particularly appropriate either. I really don't change my behavior or attitude when crossdressing, these days I am just mixing and matching clothes and the whole idea of a separate identity just seems weird to contemplate. I am just me, period.

I never thought that separating out my masculine and feminine qualities into two identities was what crossdressing was about. How can I be expressing myself by creating an alter ego? So for myself, Satrana is just a reference for others to use.

I would have to say I'm one person in either mode. I refer to myself in the present tense and am quite comfortable with it. For me cross dressing is not a game, but something I truly enjoy, even if my opportunities are limited.

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Originally Posted by Satrana

I never thought that separating out my masculine and feminine qualities into two identities was what crossdressing was about. How can I be expressing myself by creating an alter ego?

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Separating yourself into two identities isn't what crossdressing is about, on that we can agree -- but, if you were basing your post on anything I said earlier, I must not have been clear. If you were, in part or in whole, addressing any part of what I posted earlier, what I did say was that the viewpoint I was presenting was my opinion and how I sincerely and deeply feel -- and that I am of the opinion that others (some, at least) might well hold opposing viewpoints. That said, I am very comfortable with how I see things on this issue, because I believe that with many, crossdressing is the visible expression of a clearly dichotomous personna, part masculine and part feminine. The degree will vary from person to person based on any number of factors and/or stimuli. And, at any given point in time, one side of this duality will be more in control than the other.

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Originally Posted by Dita's Daughter

Just a curiosity question, you know us GGs..

I've noticed some of you refer to yourselves in the third person when discussing your en femme selves, if I use the term correctly ;). For example, one might say about themselves CDed, "she likes to wear this" or "she thinks about that". Would you consider yourself one person, one being the female you and the male you in one body all the time or do you find yourself identifying with a different 'personality' for lack of a better word, when you're dressed en femme? I would think the experiences here will differ among you all.

Keep smilin', DD.

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I do i guess because when dressed, i feel altogether different, a different focus of energy's, and feeling, even though there the same person, my views are the same, the way i treat others is the same, my outlook on life is the same, but i feel so totally different. My mannerisms are different, the way i move is different, the way i focus my feelings is different, the way i project myself is totally different. I can switch back and forth from these different feelings what ever i am dressed like, sometimes it feels like a split personality, but there both me. Sheri 4242 said something that resonates with me a lot......

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I don't know how many have experienced this, but sometimes a CDer can be happily en femme (with his feminine personna in control) then something upsetting happens. A rush of testosterone in many subjects (though not all, b/c there are pysiological differences of various degrees, individual to individual) may suddenly send the person spiralling out of the feminine into the masculine. Not a whole lot of research on this, but it is being examined.

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In guy mode, you would never ever guess i was a cd, there is nothing feminine looking about me, but i can switch that in a second, and freak a lot of people out im sure. In girl mode, there is not a lot that is masculine, though there are times that it does come back, like sheri said, but the more i am chantelle, the less this happens, its almost like she is becoming more and more a separate individual, even though all of the root personality's are the same. My sister says, chantelle is just the softer more gentle side of me, I fully enjoy, both genders, love being a man, and love being a lady, i don't feel like i am a woman trapped in a mans body at all, though sometimes chantelle wishes <third party thingy> *giggles* all her parts are real,but.. in order to be able to feel everything, meaning male and female totally, you have to have one root sex, and the one you are all the time, is the one that just feels normal, and in a way i am really glad the female one isn't the normal one, because you ladies energy's feel amazing to say the least! But then again...a males energy's to a woman would have the same effect, wouldn't they?? i guess this is why i use the third party thingy. Because what i feel is real, has a real energy vibration to it, i become a woman, i live like one, as long as i stay focused as one. Start to feel male energies again, i become a male again, still same person, but how i resonate out, and draw in, totally changes, in other words, how i focus my feelings outwardly, and how i draw feelings inwardly that touch my heart, change from male mode to female. This is why i cant stop dressing, because the energies are real, to not any more, would be like banishing the woman i know how to feel, and it feels so alive. It would be like getting cut in 1/2 at the waist, because i now expanded my awareness to encompass fully being human. male and female, Completeness, whole, really alive, to be able to draw from both sides of the coin, and at any time i choose. How liberating is that:D :D :D Female is not any better, and neither is the male, they are just equal, but opposite. If i was to refer to myself as a mix of the both, i would be creating something different, and i don't want that at all, i want to feel both separate for what they are totally. How Chatelle feels and resonates is totally different from how i do, and the differences are getting stronger as she grows. What will she become???? it still fascinates me to no end!!! I look forward to it, i know she will have a voice, a whole personality, you wont be able to tell she isn't a woman under the clothing.She has to be separate, or i create something eles. She has to exist separately!

Ugg i rambeled along agin, sorry all.

One

There is a shift between Roberta and Bob.
To say it is a different person or personality....ummmm, that's up to the beholder.
I think, maybe.
I know Bob smiles and glows whenever the face that looks back from the mirror is suddenly "more than just Bob" or "not Bob", or "Suddenly Roberta".

And then all kinds of permissions and joys and senses of ease manifest within, and a dignity and a sense of power. Oh, and the pronoun and degree-of-person hood for Bob and Roberta shift (first to third, third to first).

Is it affectation, is it factual shift in personality.....Dunno!

I Love It !

:rose: Roberta :rose:

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Originally Posted by Lisa Golightly

There's just boring old little Lisa I'm afraid...

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I'm the same as Lisa. No third person descriptions.
"Angela's" just "Andy" in a skirt or a dress.

definately 2, when i am in here especially or anytime i am dressed and out. to refer to myself as male here would just seem weird to me. maybe Barb is right and it is really about where we are on the gender spectrum, i don't know. only thing i know right now is "he" has to get dressed in icky clothes and go to work:(

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Originally Posted by Lisa Golightly

There's just boring old little Lisa I'm afraid...

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Aw, Lis, who said you are boring?!

You are not!!:D

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Originally Posted by Sheri 4242

I don't know how many have experienced this, but sometimes a CDer can be happily en femme (with his feminine personna in control) then something upsetting happens. A rush of testosterone in many subjects (though not all, b/c there are pysiological differences of various degrees, individual to individual) may suddenly send the person spiralling out of the feminine into the masculine. Not a whole lot of research on this, but it is being examined.

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As a chemist I'd call this a metastable state. A state that can persist for some time or even forever, if it is affected by small perturbations only, but will collapse by bigger perturbations, because it is not at the global equilibrium.
There is nothing wrong with it, (diamond is metastable too:heehee:, graphite being the stable state:straightface:), but I don't think it is a hormonal effect, rather a psychological one, probably due being emotionally not at the global equilibrium (your subconscious speaks up and tells you something is wrong).

Personally I see the dichotomy as an effect of the social pressure. Social pressure is the scissors that cuts feminine and masculine aspects apart.
Without it a dichotomy wouldn't be necessary and everybody would be able to find a stable global equilibrium, integrating masculine and feminine aspects.
But as long as we have this scissors, we as CDs have to find a metastable state. Either by dichotomy (metastable male self and metastable female self, eventually switching from one to the other) or restricted integration (metastable androgyny) .

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Originally Posted by Lora Olivia

definately 2, when i am in here especially or anytime i am dressed and out. to refer to myself as male here would just seem weird to me. maybe Barb is right and it is really about where we are on the gender spectrum, i don't know. only thing i know right now is "he" has to get dressed in icky clothes and go to work:(

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"he" has to get dressed and go to work is about it. I am one person but like any coin, I have two sides. Male and Female. I love the woman I am and prefer to be her but, hey a gal has to eat and so "he" goes to work. I can't go to work where "he" works but I often wish I had a job where I could be me all the time.

There is only one me. Being dressed enfemme seems to bring out the sensible, more feminine side of me. In other words, I am a lot more mellow, and even think like a girl when enfemme.

I am one person with a wide spectrum. It is only the clothing that changes.
Jodie

Hi DD - I feel there's just 'one' of me and would never refer to my female side as someone else.

To be honest I feel I'm Suzy even in boy mode and so only feel complete when I'm as Suzy. Basically I've never felt too comfortable in 'boy mode' especially around guys - it's difficult to explain. You're probably as confused as I am now !

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Originally Posted by Sheri 4242

If you were, in part or in whole, addressing any part of what I posted earlier, what I did say was that the viewpoint I was presenting was my opinion and how I sincerely and deeply feel.

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Hi Sheri

No I was not referring to your post, my thoughts were entirely my own and something which I have actually said a few times previously.:hugs:

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Originally Posted by Chantelle CD

I do i guess because when dressed, i feel altogether different, a different focus of energy's, and feeling, even though there the same person, my views are the same, the way i treat others is the same, my outlook on life is the same, but i feel so totally different. My mannerisms are different, the way i move is different, the way i focus my feelings is different, the way i project myself is totally different.

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A good description. I have an analogy for GGs. If you were packed off to army camp and you had your head shaved and had to wear army fatigues, would you not feel different? Even though you were the same person, the fact that you were now in a specific type of uniform which you knew required a certain behavior, you would already be feeling more masculine and aggressive and would be standing to attention and saluting even if your training had not yet started.

Uniforms provide important information on how people are expected to behave. And if you find yourself in an identifiable uniform then you automatically begin to mimic the expected behavior without being asked. Essentially for a CD, female clothes are a uniform which, once put on, requires a different set of mannerisms. For the CD of course this is a release, not to have to be masculine 24/7 anymore but finally the CD can explore and enjoy feminine qualities.

The dichotomy between my feminine & masculine sides feels like a "liquid" kinda thing. I can feel 100% of either at different times, or anywhere in between. It's often dependent on whatever external variances are happening at any given time. Other times the dominant feeling is derived from some unknown inner place. I usually feel much more feminine than masculine, but sometimes I'm all male too. I also usually prefer feeling more feminine, & if I had to choose, I'd be a woman permanently, but I really do love being both. I love the individual gender times, and the blended feelings that seem to flow more naturally through me as time goes on.

If I occasionally refer to "Whats-er-name" in the 3rd person, it's merely for simplicity in communication- "Veronica" this or that, instead of "Me as a woman" this or that, or "Me as a man", etc.

Hugz,

Veronica

I am definitely only one person. albeit one person with a few hidden surprises. :heehee: I didn't even have a femme name for myself until I came here!

I am just a "One" myself, I am who I come across as, warts and all, whether in drab or dressed

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Originally Posted by Satrana

Uniforms provide important information on how people are expected to behave. And if you find yourself in an identifiable uniform then you automatically begin to mimic the expected behavior without being asked.

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Ah ha, and so this begs the question, I love this..

What would you all act like if this world had no clothes? I would bet many would be a wonderful combination of masculine strengths and feminine sensitivity. I could quickly get excited about this because I personally think this would resolve many of the world's issues! I'm gonig off on a tangent here..

I do realise, of course, there is an element of fun to dressing/feeling different in a significant way, something that probably feels like a rush of energy.

The military analogy is one I brought up in our family as an oposite extreme to depict a point. I hear you. I guess my feelings on it are that I wish even a person in uniform could feel the absolute freedom to be soft and sensitive, without feeling like there's a role that goes with the clothes. With this, those feminine men that wish to be themselves wouldn't necessarily feel 'different' but just be uniquely themselves :)

Sounds like sometimes as one gets more comfortable with their feminine characteristics, the third person disolves (except for simplicity of terms like someone said), unless it is the thrill of the dress-up and alter ego.

No one explanation to cover everyone, that's for sure!

One person here, with two ways of expressing my gender..as a male and a female. I *never* refer to myself in the third person..inside it is the same me, all the way to the middle, whether dressed femme or not.

There's just boring old Marissa I'm afraid... nothing special here :heehee:
i use to say stuff like well mj likes pink and she is fun to be around ... i guess it takes time to merge in to one
but she does not do that anymore :p

I'm definitely one person. I don't think I've ever referred to myself as "she' or "her", at least not knowingly. And this applies even when I have to be in the male mode.

Just me, nobody else hiding in here. :)

I am always in female mode even when not dressed so there is only one me and "she" is all "she".

Just one person???

Something to think about here.....

If one is mad, you are an angry person, until you smile and become a happy person, then you see a friend get hurt, and you become a sad person, then you cheer them up, and you become a joyous person. Then when you go home, you get dressed and feel feminine, and you become a woman, change back and you feel masculine, and you become a man.

I just showed 6 different types of resonance. The amount of alter egos that exist are limited only by how many energies one can feel.

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Originally Posted by Dita's Daughter

What would you all act like if this world had no clothes?

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A good question. Are there crossdressers in jungle tribes who wear no clothes?

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I guess my feelings on it are that I wish even a person in uniform could feel the absolute freedom to be soft and sensitive, without feeling like there's a role that goes with the clothes.

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That is a good explanation about what crossdressers are really all about. They do not believe they are women (that would make them transsexual) rather they are attracted to the role women play. The reason for this is that men are totally prohibited from expressing feminine qualities so CDs get around this by playing the role of a woman. Only then are they free to explore their other feelings which have been suppressed all their lives. But this opens other doors like escapism and fantasy play which sends the CD down alternative routes.

The horrible thing is that it does not have to be this way. If you look at how tomboys behave it is clear that you should be able to display masculine and feminine qualities openly without having the need to emulate, wear uniforms, and re-enact fantasies etc. This is the warping effect the guilt induced closet lifestyle has on CDs.

It's just me now, especially now that I've accepted this side of me, no longer do I feel guilty about it, so it's been much easier to accept what I used to refer to my 'other side' of my personality. So now it's just me, Darcy :)

Well for me Marci is still me .

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Originally Posted by Rachel Morley

Hi DD,

I can only speak for myself, but I just can't get my head around being anything else but the one person I am. OK, I am a fairly girly guy in boy mode so I guess I don't differentiate between being in boy mode and being en femme that much (at least not in my head) so when I'm en femme or at work I am still me, it's just that I am feeling slightly different things about how I perceive myself (feeling either more or less feminine) ..... but I am still the same person - me!

My wife Marla and I made a promise to one another that when I was dressed I wouldn't "become someone else" ... there is no third person in our marriage. For us, it's worked out really well and whilst she doesn't call me Rachel in boy mode or anything (she calls me Angel) she does treat me the same whether I'm in boy mode or girl mode ... namely, she's very loving toward me. I should mention that my wife likes a feminine man and encourages me to express my feminine side in male mode quite a lot so it's easy for me to integrate the two sides into one.

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Absolutely agree! My wife and I refer to my personality as "gender-enhanced" - it is not a disease to be cured, but rather something to be nurtured. Unfortunately, in our society it may need also to be hidden. On many occasions when I am in stealth mode, with or without the undergarments, I feel that I have the advantage of a broader point of view.

I do, however, still sometimes refer to Colleen in the third person (only to my wife, who is the only one who know "her") to let her know, for example, whether I will dress for dinner.

Er? I haven't got a clue. Rachael was a name I took from the spine of a book, when I signed up. So there me man and me woman(ish). Or to put it another way me in male clothes and me in female clothes :happy: