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Say you came out to your wife or gf and her response was "Ok, I get it. But I don't agree you can just switch back and forth on your own agenda. Make a decision once and for all and stick to it: Male or female, which is it going to be? It's too confusing otherwise for me to keep flipping back and forth trying to figure out how to respond to you."
And, ggs, would you ever be inclined to tell your spouse such a thing? Does the uncertainty ever get to you to that point?
In terms of giving an ultimatum, I do not feel that it is reasonable for any human to do that to another. We are who we are and we have to accept who our partner is, the good and the bad. If we cannot accept who they are then we must move on. No ultimatums required, just agree that you cannot be together and find someone else who will not require you to make these types of choices.
Giving an ultimatum shows that they don't understand the complexity of the situation.
Imagine saying to an artist, "You keep using this red colour! Either use red all the time or stop using it!"
It would be absurd....or ignorant anyway.
Id have to sayas a GG that i would give that choice to my SO if i found it too hard i would leave. Its not fair for anyone to ask someone to not be themselves. After all how can they be the person you love if they arent been the person that they are.......
the mind boggles too much :devil:
Kim
xxx
I would need to say sorry I can not choose and I cant make a decision based on what you want to hear
And i agree they dont understand
I think alot of it is that they dont want to understand not that they cant. They may view it as been wrong its a big thing to deal with some ppl may want to bury their heads in the sand just my thoughts on it.
I personally dont understand why my SO does it but hey its part of him and im madly in love with him. Therefore i accept the dressing the best i can and support it anyway i can because its part of him.
Kim
xxx
Let's see.
Permanently man doesn't work.
That's why we (MTFs) are here, finally.
So, this option can be ruled out.
Remains permanently woman.
Well, some do.
Other than that, yes like Julie said, this ultimatum would show non-understanding of the complexity.
Quite often it seems to complex to be covered by (typical) man or woman, but that seem to be the only options, which adds contradiction to the complexity.
Personally I have one identity and I don't switch, but swing.
Like it or leave it.
I may be being a little presumptuous, however, in our relationship, my wife and I would never give or get that ultimatum. She has asked me several times how far this is going and the only legitimate response I can offer is, "as far as I am right now." It's fluid, it changes all the time. Emotionally and as a matter of personal characteristics, when enfemme I am very much of the same mind, although a much calmer version of myself. I get confused about it and she does her best to help me through it. As well I can tell when she's seen enough and pull Dawn back in for a little while. It would not be possible for me to make a choice one way or the other finitely. Such an ultimatum would in itself be devastating to me emotionally. I'm not sure I could handle it and I'm not sure my Wife could either. Therefore, it just wouldn't happen.
Dawn
Me, I am never one for ultimatums of any kind.
My wife knows where I'm at and I don't think she would ask that of me.And if she did I do not know how I would respond. This is a question is answerable with out being in such a spot. :hugs:
Angie
I, too, do not respond well to ultimatums.
Besides, it would deny and attempt to force me to eliminate a part of my personality; something I could never do. The person obviously does not understand or appreciate me for what I am, so my answer would be: "Adieu." :bye:
I have been crossdressing all my life, and through 17 years of marriage. That said, you're probably not going to like this. I don't think it is fair to your wife or girlfriend, to "come out", and put it right in her face. You wouldn't like it if your lovely wife suddenly let all her leg and underarm hair grow out, and got a mans haircut, and started dressing like a man, along with a lot of other male mannerisms. If you want to dress, by all means do so. It's a lifelong thing. But keep it private, and don't flaunt it in her face.
Forget all the "honesty" BS. Most of you come out for selfish reasons. Too many of you are seeking a green light to sit around the house in heels and a nightie, in front of your family, and force them to accept it. I'm telling you, it ain't going to happen! If you value your wife and family, keep your little secret!
I know this is a support group. But let's show a little common sense!
The problem with that ultimatum is that I am still male whether dressed or not. Often just seeing myself dressed gets me hot for myself. I never want to be a woman, I just want to wear their clothes!Quote:
Originally Posted by livy_m_b
if you do not accept me for who i am,faults,quirks,kinks,etc.,then you do not love me.just my way of thinking,your results may vary.
Wow Melinda ... I so disagree with you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melinda G
I can understand not telling your wife, then telling her and flaunting it in her face but....... to purposely encourage someone to continue to lie to their partner? I think that is the selfish thing to do, the most selfish in my opinion. Maybe people do come out to their partners for selfish reasons. The point is they are finally being honest.
Some GG's don't ever let their mates sit around the house dressed. Some kick them out.. They are taking a risk, but one that has to be taken IMHO.. how can you claim to love someone and hide such an intricate part of yourself?
I know many of the wives are more violated by the betrayed trust than the actual dressing. I think you are selling the GG's short, personally.
:hugs: and :love:'s,
Kris
PS Ultimatums do not sit well with me either. I don't know what I would do, and I could never imagine saying this to my SO.... however, when my friend came over to visit, when she met my children, I asked her to pick a mode and stay in it for my children because I am not sure they could understand since they didn't grow up with it around. I was worried that they would ask her all kinds of personal questions.
I wish you luck and be sure to keep us posted!!
I had a situation like that I finally told my girlfriend of five years that I was crossdressing she asked for how long I told her since we had been together but it started when I was young. She told me I needed to get help and I should stop. Told her that would not happen that it was part of me so she told me to pack up and get out. It has been over a year since then and I have found my soulmate who encourages me to crossdress. She loves it when I dress up and cook her dinner then we have a quiet night at home together watching tv, it is a great girls night together. So it happend but I was lucky enough to find that special woman.
Well then, the time to be honest is before the wedding, not after. As I said, most of us would be quite unhappy, if our wives or girlfriends suddenly started dressing and acting male. If you don't tell the little woman before the wedding, then I think you are somewhat obligated to be the man she married. Otherwise it is the old bait and switch game.Quote:
I can understand not telling your wife, then telling her and flaunting it in her face but....... to purposely encourage someone to continue to lie to their partner? I think that is the selfish thing to do, the most selfish in my opinion. Maybe people do come out to their partners for selfish reasons. The point is they are finally being honest.
I don't believe I can lock myself in male or female mode full time it just doesn’t work that way.
I prefer to live life as a combination male/female not just one or the other.
Skirts today pants tomorrow. But always me.
From my perspective... I have never allowed ultimatums in my relationships. if you marry the right person, there are no need for them in my opinion.
Zara
Thank you! I've I had a choice? I would not be a cross-dresser! I wouldn't wish this own my worse enemy!Quote:
Originally Posted by kim85
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melinda G
You have brought up a good point. That is a way that my SO looks at it and why he is thankful that i accept this side of him. I personally have no incling to do this. Although i am a tomboy, dont often do dresses or skirts i still have the option to if i want (which is very rare). i feel more comfortable in jeans and tops so the way i see it how do i have the right to tell my SO what hes allowed to wear.
Again another point im not sure about other peoples relationships but currently in mine (althought im not married) my SO is still the man that i got with. Sure its not all the time like i thought but IMO no realtionship is perfectQuote:
Originally Posted by Melinda G
Kim
xxx
Wow! Just wow! An ultimatum to be "one or the other"? That would be like asking a tree to bow one direction no matter which way the wind came from - people are NOT brain wired like that.
As a GG with a husband who let me know he is a CD'er recently, I did *ask* for time to adjust but no ultimatum of "either this or that".
My oh my, how boring life would be if there were no choices at all.
Honesty. It isn't "BS"; honesty is essential, in all parts of a marriage. Lies, evasions, mind games and just the whole scene can and will poison the essential trust and faith in each other a marriage needs. Oh, sure; you might think you've evaded the situation successfully but soon or later it is going to be "what a tangled web we weave" and it all goes crash.
Whether with a emotional explosion, or the quiet little death of two lives that becomes the invisible divorce but it will cost you both far more than you think.
Her answer seemed very like a "either we both forget about that, and that's ok, or I don't know what I can do otherwise". She seems scared and would probably just want it to vanish as nothing has never happened. She can't accept an in-between situation because that would make her harder to understand, while both opposites would make her decision easier, in a way or another.
So? Quite difficult not knowing her.. you are probably the only one who can really try and guess what's better, but as always trying to talk and explaining is the better way, just maybe after she had some time to think about all of this a bit more.
OK, first of all, I oppose ultimatums. Period.
Secondly, I think you can carry this honesty stuff too far. Everyone has secrets. Women certainly have plenty, that they will never reveal. My point is this. If your secret is not hurting anyone, or your relationship, why reveal it and maybe cause a breakup, or hurt someone, when you could have kept the secret for years and maintained a healthy relationship! If revealing your secret is going to hurt someone, why do it? We are not talking infidelity here. When you are watching television, do you tell your wife, "I have a confession to make. I really would like to bone Jennifer Anniston". Do you tell your wife, "Honey, I masturbated this morning, because sex with you just isn't enough". Of course you don't. If it's not hurting your relationship, don't reveal it. Why tell her something that likely is going to hurt and confuse her, and likely end your relationship, or at least change how she perceives you for the rest of your life. My point is that "honesty" needs to be tempered with a little common sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by livy_m_b
Well, you can always turn it around and demand that SHE make up her mind: she must always wear either skirts or pants, she can't switch back and forth between women's and men's clothes, no jeans for her! ;-)
We are all different. In my case, I feel I'm somewhere "inbetween", neither fully male and certainly not fully female.
Patti
Livy,
I'm just responding to the question (I haven't read all the responses). My first inclination is to say "if she's your girlfriend, dump her, and if she's your wife, you've got a long road ahead." But, I don't agree with this approach. 98% of women will be disapproving, that's just the way it is. You'll get the negative view at the beginning. Go slowly, it may take many months, but in time, she will soften her stance. Hang in there!
Reject the ultimatum. You have both male and female aspects. Being forced to be something you are not is neither fair to you nor destined for success.