Can you relate to my peculiar sexuality ?

This description of my turn ons and turn offs may be a little graphic (i dont think so) but if you might find offence dont read further!


I have a sexuality that is extremely complex and kind of difficult to explain, but here goes.. it would be interesting to see if you feel the same way

what i think happened is when i started dressing up at 13 years old I kind of created a sexual orientation of myself based on the dressing..

so here's how it break down.


MEN:

1.) I love sex with men, i think about it constantly.
2.) I dont find them sexually appealing (only privates really!)
3.) I have never got a crush or fell in love with a man
4.) have had discreet realtionships with several men based on purely sex
5.) i love teeling myself i'm gay, been doing it since i was 17 and it turns me on, but i never truley belive i'm actually gay. its like i have to convince myself
6.) I dont like kissing guys and never have (but lately i've started warming to the idea)



WOMEN:
1.) I love their bodies but i couldn't get sexually excited over it. My brain goes sex crazy over their bodies but i'd never get an erection over it
2.) I love looking at womens bodies just as much as any hetero guy would. This is what keeps me closeted so well to close friends. I just have to perv too.
3.) when i check out a woman's nice body i get all butterflies but its because i'm internalising the womans body.. so its like "i love her butt i wish i had a butt like that!" etc
4.) I cant get an erection with a woman without viagra and even then its diffcult. I never have that problem with men
5.) never dated a woman or had sex with one for free (i'm 32)
6.) Have fell in love and had crushes on women
7.) during masturbation and internal mind fantasies I have never really visualized having sex with a woman because it doesn't turn me on
8.) I do enjoy passionately kissing women



PORN:
1.) I have never masturbated over strictly gay porn - ever.
2.) I have no interest in lesbain porn whatsoever either.
3.) i like hetero porn but its like i internalize the female role and kind of "get off" over the guy and the interaction.
4.) I guess i'm getting both on both sexes' sex organs, but i'm squarley in the position of being the woman.

can you sort of see whats happening ? I saw some "official " term for it the other day it was called "cross gendered sexual orientation" which i kind of like that label but it kind of leaves me in loveless, sex based realtionships based on CD fantasies of being a woman.

I guess to add to this I would say I'm 100% gay and proud but something just doesn't feel right. :sad:

Hmmm! Nothing unusual in those feelings. I'm sure we've all experienced them before (metaphorically speaking). If you're confused why not seek professional advice.
:hugs:
Margot

One word: Therapy!

yeah i been down the therapy route.. but once they hear (5 psychologists and one shrink over a 10 year period) hear that i dress and stuff they are very black and white about it: "you are gay" they say. to them it doesn't matter if you had sex with women all your life beforehand. i'm not kidding either.

there aren't any proper sex therapists near here but i will have to look further afield. I just thought others might have the same kind of thing because everybody i know/spoken too seems to think in such black and white terms. We live in a society where even external things such as the car you drive, the music uyou listen to, the clothes you wear or pierced ears "create sexuality".

When its not black and white, as it is for many, I guess thats what creates the confusion.

ps.. feel free to boot the thread or move it somewhere else rather than the TS forum

Hi Dani,
A major problem with many psychologists is their adherence toward Cognitive Behaviour Therapy. It doesnt work with transgender. You need a therapist who takes a Humanist Existentialist approach. Secondly, many therapists hear trans whatever and freeze. They dont get any training in this area save a two hour lecture during graduate school and often the information is dead wrong. (Blanchard and co. again)

Dont be disheartened by the responses. Maybe this information can be of some help. I am not sure but you might be able to get a referral toward someone in your area from WPATH. It might be worth looking into?

:hugs:
Kimberley

Personally, I can't relate to your stated senario... that doesn't make you right and me wrong or vice versa. The only thing it does define is that you are you, with your own feelings and I am me with mine. My I offer a suggestion? Stop letting other people define you and be happy with who you are. As long as you treat any potential partner with dignity and respect, what difference does anything else make?

we are all different and there is nothing wrong with that. from my point of view anyone who can respect and love me for who i am is fine with me. be that a man or woman or any trans person if it come to more than friends " playmates " then i am thankful enough to enjoy there company .
i don't worry about labels gay bi or lesbian as long as there is genuine respect for each other . only thing i don't like is some who is pushy that scares me .just try to accept yourself for who you are . :hugs:

Is that what you feel? What´s the problem? Enjoy it!

People think there is a "normal" sexual behaviour. And a lot of people like to tell other poeple what is a "normal" sexual behaviour. And a lot of people worries about their sexual behaviour.

And I´m not speaking only about people who condem homosexual sex, but people who like to tell other people what is "normal" homosexual behaviour.

Do you love sex with men? A lot of people does. Do you like kissing a woman? A lot of people does. Enyoy what you like. Yours is your "normal" sexual behaviour.

I can't relate to your particular sexual confusion. However, as a straight guy who is presently more sexually attracted to my female persona than to my real GG dates, I should't be giving ANYONE advice on this subject!

I DO think many of us here r sexually conflicted in one way or another! And I'll bet so r a lot of supposedly "normal" folks out there also!

You might have your CDing, or possible TSism, too tightly coupled to sexual desire. It's hard to know if you are gay or not without first seeing how the sexual desire is, devoid of any cross-gender identity. Work on that.

I can identify with that so easily.

I have fantasized about being the woman, inhabiting a female body at rest, at play, in self-play, and playing *with others*.

It is a beautiful fantasy, and could be aided by live play with men or women.

Perfectly natural.

Enjoy !

:rose: Roberta :rose:

I don't think there is really such a thing as a complex sexuality. We all have different likes and dislikes, turn-ons and turn-offs at various times thoughout our lives. You need to accept this fact, and learn to understand what is essential to your well-being as opposed to the "nice-to-haves", taking into account your health and lifestyle, including family, friends, career, etc.

For example, when thinking about your sexuality, try to differentiate between what you fantasize about, and whether you would actually want to act on those fantasies. There's no harm in fantasy: I would love to be able to parade down the streets in a frilly fantasy costume, but would I do it... No!

It's all a question of balance...

Nope! I dont identify with your profile.
I am totally hetero, which I understand is how most CD/TV people are.
I love women, and don't feel attracted in the least to men. I love having sex - in all its variety - with women.
I am a CD because I enjoy it. I think (but I don't know) that its a mostly physical thing around the textures and feelings of womens clothes. My fantasies include having sex ( I won't talk about "making love", which I differentiate) with all the gorgeous women in the world.
Having said all that, if you like being who and what you are, and you're harming no-one, whats the problem? I know a small number of gay men who enjoy CDing, but the 2 aren't necessarily inclusive at all.

Bisexuality is on a scale, much like transgender is on a scale.

Accordingly, somewhere along that bisexual scale, one can be romatically attracted to one sex and sexually attracted to another sex.

https://www.msu.edu/~alliance/faq/faqbisexuality.html

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KayR

Nope! I dont identify with your profile.
I am totally hetero, which I understand is how most CD/TV people are.

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I believe a lot of CD's, including myself say they are hetero, but are in fact attracted to other CD's/TV's, whether they act upon that or not.

I am bi. Predominately hetro, but still bi. If that makes any sence? I prefer women over men, but I do enjoy the company of a man every once in awhile. You I feel are more gay. Nothing wrong with that at all. I makes you....you. Roll with it, enjoy it and never look back.

To be perfectly honest, you simply seem to be bisexual. That's really what's probably the most confusing orientation these days, since all of society likes placing people in to "Team A" (straight) or "Team B" (gay). Even most GGs think that a guy who says he's bi is just "not gay yet" which is probably what makes certain people like yourself to force yourself to be more homosexual than you are.

Not that you don't like guys - as I said, you are bi, but i've spoke to gay men (non-CD/TG/TS/TV) and had them admit they "liked making out" with women. As was said earlier in this thread, there are degrees of sexuality as well as degrees of gender. Most people fall on the extremes, but some fall in the middle and I think you're one of those people clearly in the middle.

That's what the problem is here. You are not 100% gay and you know it. It's too bad society has regressed for people born men, where the belief is now that such a thing does not exist, but it's the truth.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Emily Anderson

I believe a lot of CD's, including myself say they are hetero, but are in fact attracted to other CD's/TV's, whether they act upon that or not.

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I'm with Emily. I know what the statistics say and I know what Kappa Beta says, but out of all the CD/TG's I've met, I can count on my digits the number of them who were purely "straight", not to mention all the "straight" guys that leave me messages in internetland.

To the point: Love a woman, have sex with men. There's someone out there for everyone.

Sorry for the new label! :p

Anyhow, don't know if it fits, but it might be worth a read.

Wikipedia definition

A discussion by the sexologist, Ray Blanchard who coined the term

:hugs:

"I'm sure we've all experienced them before" ??

I think not. We are all individuals and the fact that we seem to share elements of transgenderism doesn't mean we think alike or are attracted to the same things.

I find the idea of sex with a man totally disagreeable. I am attracted to women, and most definitely have no interest in sex when I crossdress. I'm also not at all attracted to guys who dress up as women.

Remember to separate gender and sexual preference. These are totally different things.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andrea M. Forbes

Remember to separate gender and sexual preference. These are totally different things.

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I disagree inasmuch as a man dressed up as a women can be sexually attractive, whereas I would never be attracted to a man dressed as a man. I know your point was to say there are gray areas, but in fact that are even more gray areas than what you expressed.

It's not as simple as seperating gender and sexual preference. To me, a man dressed as a man is of male gender, whereas a man in a dress can be of female gender. My sexual preference is definitely toward females, but I can be "turned" on by other CD's whether I'm dressed up as a female or in drab.

Basically, we get too hung up about trying to put labels on everything, and trying to put everything into categories, rather than just enjoying what we know we like.

Ivy,
I couldn't have said it better...being with a man is different from being with a woman.... I consider myself bi, but could only be with men sexually. With women, it is the whole package... love, sex, and intimacy in the most complete way. With men, it is purely sexual and never reaches the depths that I feel with women.

I consider myself heterosexual and consider sex with a man wrong, but when I look at an extremely attractive CD'er, I have the normal sexual desires of a man, I am sexually attracted to the gender. My mind would keep me from having sex with the man tho.

It gets just as confusing when I dress up feminine, I take up the female role and become a sexually alive women. I want to look attractive and appealing to the opposite gender, when I listen to music, I end up dancing and caressing my body. As Shania Twain would say, "Man! I feel like a Woman!" :battingeyelashes::battingeyelashes::battingeyelas hes: Kim

[SIZE=4]:oAs Andrea said: separate gender (between your ears) and sexual preference (which SEX or GENDER you prefer for sex).

How utterly confusing it is: to pre-ops have sex, they are mentally having lesbian sex and physically having gay sex.

Then take a couple lesbian females, one of them realizes he is really a transman. Now they are a heterosexual couple, and the non-trans partner is a little uncomfortable with suddently being seen as a heterocouple.

For me, Genderly speaking, I am absolutely 100% female even though I am pre-op (wishful thinking there, nearly wrote post-op).

:oI have considered my self lesbian, strangely even before I knew I was female I had put lesbian in my sig on another site.

However, I have found that I love dancing with men, being kissed by men (they have actually come over to me on the dance floor and kissed me on the lips!), and I notice that I have come lately to more appreciate good looking guys.

So I might just possibly become bi-sexual in my preference for sex. I can certainly see a possibility. And if I did have surgery, I would think I might even be more inclined to have sex with a man, but right now it would be a far far stretch for me to think I could love a man, not saying it is forever impossible.

I have an SO I love dearly and it is returned, but not much in the way of sex.[/SIZE]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andrea M. Forbes

I find the idea of sex with a man totally disagreeable. I am attracted to women, and most definitely have no interest in sex when I crossdress. I'm also not at all attracted to guys who dress up as women.

Remember to separate gender and sexual preference. These are totally different things.

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Andrea, as a straight male, I would have agreed with u 100% 6 years ago.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Emily Anderson

I disagree inasmuch as a man dressed up as a women can be sexually attractive, whereas I would never be attracted to a man dressed as a man. I know your point was to say there are gray areas, but in fact that are even more gray areas than what you expressed.

It's not as simple as seperating gender and sexual preference. To me, a man dressed as a man is of male gender, whereas a man in a dress can be of female gender. My sexual preference is definitely toward females, but I can be "turned" on by other CD's whether I'm dressed up as a female or in drab.

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After my experience meeting Katoi in Thailand, I NOW agree 100% with Emily. Here's why:
What if u met a woman u find VERY attractive, who looks, talks, smells, and feels exactly like a GG, wouldn't u be attracted to her?
But u know she's really a male down there. So, you're turned off and that's the end of it. Which is what happened with me.

But that doesn't change the fact that u were ATTRACTED to her/him. I now readily admit to being attracted to certain CDs. I wouldn't act on my attractions, but that doesn't change the fact that I am attracted!

I have been involved, in the past, with men sexually. I have only done so while dressed as a woman. I can say this, I had no interest in 'doing things' to the other man...if you get my drift. And in some cases, had not interest in having him do certain things with me. My role was that of a female, and I really wanted to do the things a female would do to a male, and have him do things to me that a male would do to a female.

I do not want this to turn graphic, but I can say without a doubt that my sexual desires changed when I was with men as compared to what they were when I had sex with women.

I am not sure how to phrase this cleanly, but in one certain aspect of sex that involves the mouth, I actually prefer the male organ to the female anatomy.

Call me what you want to call me...but I am who I am.

I think there's a difference between a male, and a male in a dress. I spent a long time contemplating this, because I would never have sex with a man, but I have seen more than a few TV/TG's that were absolutely gorgeous.

The conclusion I came to was that I'm attracted to feminine traits (curves, smooth skin, long hair etc.), not necessarily strictly females.

Frankly, I don't relate to your sexuality much at all. Although I have a vivid sense of autogynephelia, and wonder what it would be like to have sex as a woman, I'm not a woman, and thus have no desire to actually have any kind of sex with men. I don't have the right plumbing, and I'm not willing to substitue orifices.

If it works for you, that's great. But you were right when you said it was complicated.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TGMarla

I don't have the right plumbing, and I'm not willing to substitue orifices.

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There is some discomfort involved at first.

Quote:

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If it works for you, that's great. But you were right when you said it was complicated.

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I think sex should never be complicated. You do what you want to do...and nothing more.

well if i see a pretty cder i really dont get excited but i really love to see a pretty women especially one that is in a bikini and has one hell of a nice shape thats whats turns me on i guess i love women and their clothes

Actually, gender and sexual attraction are, in fact, different. How one interprets this information is something else entirely. I am attracted to women. If a man looks like a woman and I don't know it until I find out the hard way (a la "Crying Game"), the show is off. This does not change the fact that I am attracted to women. Deception, whether intentional or not, is exactly that - deception.

Now, hormones do play a role in gender identity, apparently. The genitals release hormones at various levels, so when these are removed and/or radically adjusted for gender reassignment (which is a horrible term used to describe the surgery), elements of one's identity change. I am not an organic chemist, so I cannot go any further here.

In any case, my gender and sexual orientation are not in flux or otherwise a mystery to me. When I was younger and confused about my crossdressing, this was because I was too unsophisticated to understand my own behavior (read youth-induced ignorance). Now, I understand what crossdressing is to me. I certainly cannot apply this understanding across the full spectrum of crossdressers, however.

Some folks have a problem understanding why a heterosexual man would choose to dress like an attractive woman and not want to actually be a woman or not want to be with men. Humans are a diverse lot. I know its fun to think about such things, but I can assure you that the answers are so diverse that the process borders on irrelevant beyond a good debate over cocktails.

Crossdressing for me is an art form. Some do it well and others do it poorly. But this is a preferance thing; some like realism and others abstract. So when I see other crossdressers who do the craft justice, I see it as competition; or rather, a motivation for me to improve my look and manner when en femme. On a related note, sometimes I see an attractive GG and I say: "Damn, she's hawt!" at the same time I say "I really love that outfit..." Seeing crossdressing as a form of art explains why I do not really identify with the fetish crowd or those on a transgender journey.

I also agree with others that sex should not complicated. It is primal and basic. Gender, however, is quite complicated, especially since a good deal of this particular part of our identity is defined by society. This is not a bad thing, necessarily. It is a human thing.

YOu like what you like, why worry about it?
Sexual preference should not be an issue until you are ready for a serious relationship, then and only then should you be thinking about whether you would prefer a man or a woman or whatever.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MlleErin

Sexual preference should not be an issue until you are ready for a serious relationship, then and only then should you be thinking about whether you would prefer a man or a woman or whatever.

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Well said!!

Nice avatar BTW! :thumbsup:

Hi there.
Just reading some of the replies I can see that you are definately getting some great advise.
Around here your profile, which you have kindly shared with us indicates that you are quite normal and a lot like many of us ( not all)

If the uncertanty of labeling yourself is causing you pain and duress IMHO
that is the problem to focus on
steer clear of labels don't put yourself in a box

one thing that caught my eye is the fact that you mentioned that w/o viagra you find it difficult to perform with a woman and I'm sure that you know best.
But
To my knowledge unless you are somewhat aroused it won't work! ( then again at 32 maybe it dosn't take much) so here's the thing , I've been with both guys and girls and I find it also depends on how sexy or stimulating each individual is ....barring gender.... the more experimenting you do without labeling and putting yourself in a box so to speak the more room you'll give yourself to grow.... let us know how you are doing with this ...we all care and are here to help hugs....lacie:battingeyelashes:

I wouldnt bother with the labels...trying to get all the labels right is confusing. There's nothing wrong with being attracted to either sex. I myself have been attracted to guys and gals and would be open to having a serious relationship regardless of gender.

When I listen to music I like more bass than treble. In a string quartet I mostly only tune into the cello part, sometimes the second violin, the first violin does nothing for me. That is a personal preference, not a deviation, there is no need to correct my personal preference.

The point is we all tune into different frequencies and march to a slightly different beat. The complexity that you described is merely a personal preference. Personally I do not see it as a deviation, and I would not seek help for it. You are blessed with the ability to enjoy a wider varieties, and as CDers, we all are blessed with the ability to enjoy more what life has to offer. I would just enjoy life as is, do not over analyze it. Whatever blows up your dress is fine.

hmmmm
have you tryed an active tranny
it works for me:D
a girl with the lot:battingeyelashes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Andrea M. Forbes

Actually, gender and sexual attraction are, in fact, different. How one interprets this information is something else entirely. I am attracted to women. If a man looks like a woman and I don't know it until I find out the hard way (a la "Crying Game"), the show is off. This does not change the fact that I am attracted to women. Deception, whether intentional or not, is exactly that - deception.

Now, hormones do play a role in gender identity, apparently. The genitals release hormones at various levels, so when these are removed and/or radically adjusted for gender reassignment (which is a horrible term used to describe the surgery), elements of one's identity change. I am not an organic chemist, so I cannot go any further here.

In any case, my gender and sexual orientation are not in flux or otherwise a mystery to me. When I was younger and confused about my crossdressing, this was because I was too unsophisticated to understand my own behavior (read youth-induced ignorance). Now, I understand what crossdressing is to me. I certainly cannot apply this understanding across the full spectrum of crossdressers, however.

Some folks have a problem understanding why a heterosexual man would choose to dress like an attractive woman and not want to actually be a woman or not want to be with men. Humans are a diverse lot. I know its fun to think about such things, but I can assure you that the answers are so diverse that the process borders on irrelevant beyond a good debate over cocktails.

Crossdressing for me is an art form. Some do it well and others do it poorly. But this is a preferance thing; some like realism and others abstract. So when I see other crossdressers who do the craft justice, I see it as competition; or rather, a motivation for me to improve my look and manner when en femme. On a related note, sometimes I see an attractive GG and I say: "Damn, she's hawt!" at the same time I say "I really love that outfit..." Seeing crossdressing as a form of art explains why I do not really identify with the fetish crowd or those on a transgender journey.

I also agree with others that sex should not complicated. It is primal and basic. Gender, however, is quite complicated, especially since a good deal of this particular part of our identity is defined by society. This is not a bad thing, necessarily. It is a human thing.

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Eloquently put, and I agree totally with you Andrea. For instance I find the picture on your avatar to be extremely nice. If it was shown to me in say, a party I would have to say "Thats a pretty girl" (no, I'm not trying to patronise you!). However, the fact that you are male and like me a hetero, means that if we met there would be no "chemistry". There may be good conversation around a common interest, but it would not be flirting, it would be a chat between 2 blokes in frocks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gabe

When I listen to music I like more bass than treble. In a string quartet I mostly only tune into the cello part, sometimes the second violin, the first violin does nothing for me. That is a personal preference, not a deviation, there is no need to correct my personal preference.

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Gabe, I LOVE that! I'm stealing that!

There have been times when someone sexy caught my eye, and I was initially wrong about their gender after looking a bit harder. I know a TS that I thought was GG until the third time I met her, but it didn't change the fact I had that initial attraction. Part of the reason CDing is so frowned upon is that society is so attached to gender, there are few things that identify one's being more than gender, both internally and externally. In my opinion, that's too bad, there are way too many gray areas.

Would you be attracted to:

A FTM Transman?
A hardcore tomboy GG?
A woman with AIS, who appears female physically, a female gender identity, but is considered male medically?
A hermaphrodite who appears physically male? Female?
Your SO if they wanted to have complete SRS to the opposite gender as you see them?

It's just one of the reasons I dislike the word "crossdresser". It assumes something about my identity based on public opinion and medical terms.

hi dani,
i would say i relate to 90% of what you have said, when i was younger moreso than now.
My rational is slightly different to yours in that i consider myself to be "tranny" gendered. This IS my gender, i am not a gay male that crossdresses, i am a transgender transvestite that is gay. Being tg dosnt necessarily mean you have to be one thing or the other, you can have womanly gender charateristics without feeling you are a woman.
gender and sexuality are of course differnt things, but they do interact and have some influence on each other. My tranny gender id is such that i could not perform as a man even if i wanted to, either with men or women...thats just not what i am.
going back to your list, as i say it was more relevant to me when younger than now. back then i felt much more emotionally attracted to women, but there were no physical desires. the opposite was true with men.
Even today, i could not walk down the street, see a man, and fancy him...it just dosnt happen. What does happen is that there are character and personality that i am attracted by, and once i am, i then find i begin to physically 'fancy' him too. Its all about actually knowing someone, and what type of man he is. for me its typically alpha male that i am attracted to, with a bit of wit and intelligence thrown in. More than that, once in a physical relationship with a man i have 'grown' to fancy, i can even fall in love too. That is something that deffinately would not have happened when i was 32.
It has been this way just for the last 10 yrs or so. I am 43 now. As a consequence i have lost the emotional attraction to women now too. I can certainly recognise an attractive woman, but now i have no desires for intimacy at any level no matter how attractive i may think she is.
I hope that may help in some small way, you dont sound too different to me at all.

Nope!!!

As an intellectual exercise I can relate to your sexuality. As an emotional exercise it is quite different than mine. As long as nobody is harmed and your activities do not involve children or small animals your sexual activities are your own business. If you are comfortable being who you are don't worry about it, if you are uncomfortable with your sexuality find a good therapist.