What being a TS is NOT

[Badtranny]

Take it to PM ladies.. you're walking on what may end up to be a good thread.

Thank you doll, not every discussion is intended to include everyone. This one is for trans-women because that's my own experience and I wouldn't even imagine that I could speak to any of the issues that trans-men face.

Now back to the point.

Since I've started my little blog, I've had the pleasure (mostly) of corresponding with a few CD's who would ask me for advice about transitioning. Why ask me? Who in the heck knows, but I have my own domain name so I must know what I'm talking about right? ;-)

Anyhoo, I've come to the conclusion over the last year that CDs and TSs are very different people, coming from very different places. I've gotten to where I can get a pretty good sense of a TS vs CD just by the things they talk about. Take Kellycan for example. She and I have chatted many many times over the last couple of years and I've come to adore her like a real life friend. She was my first real TS acquaintance and I noticed something different about her but I couldn't really tell what it was. Aside from being a mouthy broad, I didn't really know why she stood out from my CD friends.

Well, time ticks by and I meet many new people both in person and online and after a while I start to notice a definite pattern. My list of NOTs (which were explained quite nicely by Melody) are simply the things that inform or motivate or otherwise preoccupy the thoughts of a cross dresser. None of those things are bad nor should they be avoided but are any of them the reason for transitioning or for NOT transitioning?

Some girls don't think they should because they don't want or can't afford the SRS. Well, like I told my therapist, I was called a sissy, and a pansy, and a girl when I was a kid and no one bothered to check my pants to see if they were right. My pickle didn't make me a man, so not having it isn't gonna make me a woman. My genitals don't define me now and they won't define me later. Should I not transition because I don't really care if I have an innie or an outtie?

Kel, you were ready to open a can on me because you thought I was being a hypocrite, but was I really? Let's talk about passing. I know that you and I agree that passing is absolutely worth the effort and you of course pass as if you were born that way, but what if you didn't? What if you were taller and bigger? What if your hands were huge and your voice was deep? Would you NOT transition? Do you spend your life crackin' beers with your buds and pretending to like fart jokes because passing is more difficult or do you live your life anyway in spite of not passing well? I think DawnMarie said it all when she said Being a TS is about being who you are.

Beth-Lock compared my questions to a Sophistic play on words, but I prefer to see the exercise as more Socratic, in the sense that the unexamined life is indeed not worth living, and above all one should know thyself.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

ahhh the lovely scent of hubris in the successful early transitioner.....yum!!

Thanks for the lesson Socretia, but most of us already know that cd's and ts's were different for alot longer than a year..

I will say that buried in those softball questions is a very valid point... If you have been crossdressing for a long time, and you are going through suffering in your head about "what am I" , I IMPLORE YOU!!! go find a couple transsexual women, and ask them to dinner, and just sit there for 2 hours and talk....just 2 hours...and you will know..if you are ts, it will hit you like a ton of bricks...

you will see that all the stubble may not be gone on her face, you will see that her hairline isn't quite right, you may notice that her hands are way to big, or that her shoulders barely cram into the top, you may wonder why she doesnt bother to wear makeup, or notice that she has no real breasts at all, and frankly you may find that she is flat out ugly, she will likely tell you tales of woe, her divorce, she lost her job, she has been "marginalized..", she was a financial advisor-now she's a clerk at the market,

but if you are transsexual, you will see through most of that like no one else does, and you will still feel like you want to be just like her, a woman..

don't waste your time playing word games..do something..

[Longing2be-Trisha]

Being tg for me is not about passing as a woman, but it would not be a bad thing. Being tg is not about sex with a man or a woman. Being tg for me is getting to the point of who I know I am inside to be happy with my life on the outside. Yes I would love to be sexy and beautiful like I dreamed about since I was five, but I am realistic I am an old mack truck right now.

Hugs

[Badtranny]

ahhh the lovely scent of hubris in the successful early transitioner.....yum!!

Thanks for the lesson Socretia, but most of us already know that cd's and ts's were different for alot longer than a year..

Meow!

Well Miss Thing, I'll have you know that my hubris has nothing to do with my lifestyle. I was born that way baby ;-)
Socretia, I love that! I hope you realize that we would probably be great friends if we lived closer. I love a saucy broad who's not afraid to mix it up.

After lambasting me for my intellectual masturbation, you then go on to post a wonderful narrative that makes my point beautifully. We do agree on this issue and you know it, but you had to bust my balls (yes I still have them) for what amounts to editorial differences. I don't mind by the way, you are always welcome to call me on my BS.

In regard to the "word play", I'm afraid there's nothing I can do about that. I'm a nut that way and there are few things more beautiful to me than the skillful turn of phrase.

Plus I'm a tiny bit full of myself ;-)

[Kaitlyn Michele]

meow back!!

i cant help myself... and apparently neither can you!!
it's all good...

[Aprilrain]

cute kitty's........; D

For those who are lurking and thinking about sex as much as I do don't worry just because you like sex and want sex with whoever as a woman doesn't mean your NOT TS as the vast majority of the gender afflicted would have you believe. Humans are by nature sexual creatures and sex drive or lack there of no more defines a TSes gender identity than it does a cisgendered individuals gender identity. There is nothing wrong with sex being part of ones motivation for transitioning of course if it is your only motivation you may be disappointed not only with your sex life but the rest of your life as well.

[Nigella]

I realize this Lallie but evidently CaptLex doesn't yet. She still thinks we are excluding the guys. You cannot exclude someone that does not participate.

And when such a drastic "mistake" is made, is it a small wonder that anyone who is not "part of this group" does not participate??? Despite the "image" that is presented, more often than not you can smell the testosterone, and not that from the F2Ms.

[Frances]

This +1 SOOO MUCH.
Im not gay all you ignorant trolls!

But you have mentioned many times being attracted to women. How is that not gay? Rhianna said that orientation and sexual identity were not correlated, but a trans person can certainly be gay, as in a trans woman who loves a another woman (trans or cis) is in a homosexual relationship.

[Badtranny]

And when such a drastic "mistake" is made, is it a small wonder that anyone who is not "part of this group" does not participate??? Despite the "image" that is presented, more often than not you can smell the testosterone, and not that from the F2Ms.

Okay Nigella,

With all due respect, what is so wrong with a thread that is for MtF TS's only? Your average CD'r wouldn't have a lot of input in this particular discussion and since there is an open section for transmen only, I honestly thought this was the trans women section. I've already apologized for my obvious stupidity so I don't understand the persistent need to keep this issue alive.

My experience is that of an early trans woman. That's what I write about. I will not apologize for not commenting on the trans man's experience. I love them, I respect them and I will always support them, but I really don't have much of a perspective on them except for the trans guys I know, are total dudes and the only thing we have in common is our trans status. I've even had a relationship with an FtM CD and I like men!

As a gay man or straight woman however you look at it, with no SO, I'm excluded from a lot of the conversations around here. I have nothing to say when a CD talks about coming out to her wife or whatever. I've never experienced something like that, it sounds awful, but what the heck do I know about it? We can't all be included in every conversation. I know it irritates me when a straight CD'r chimes in on a gay discussion with "Nope just women for me!".

That's what this is by the way, a conversation. Not a debate or a pissing contest. It's just a way to flesh out the issues that we all (MtF TS) deal with. I personally love to see the different points of view that come out in discussions like this.

Also my testosterone levels are quite normal for a female according to my last blood test so that testosterone you're smelling must be something else.

BS maybe, but testosterone? Hell no. ;-)

But you have mentioned many times being attracted to women. How is that not gay? Rhianna said that orientation and sexual identity were not correlated, but a trans person can certainly be gay, as in a trans woman who loves a another woman (trans or cis) is in a homosexual relationship.

Oh no you di'ent!

You should be wearing safety gloves if you're gonna be bending minds like that.

[Nigella]

Okay Nigella,

With all due respect, what is so wrong with a thread that is for MtF TS's only?

There is nothing wrong with any thread that is specifically for a particular group of members to post in. They are generally posted in the loved ones section, however, I have seen one or two posted in the M2F. If, however, you are talking about a forum, well there is the Safe Haven which is a member only forum for M2F TSs.

Your average CD'r wouldn't have a lot of input in this particular discussion and since there is an open section for transmen only, I honestly thought this was the trans women section. I've already apologized for my obvious stupidity so I don't understand the persistent need to keep this issue alive.

This is an open forum, which means all members can have an input to a discussion. By the nature of discussion, just because a particular group of members may not have an opinion on the OP, as the discussion evolves they may have a valid point to make to subsequent posts. As for the persistent need to "keep this issue alive", try reading my post again, it was not even aimed at you.

[Starling]

...if you are transsexual, you will see through most of that like no one else does, and you will still feel like you want to be just like her, a woman...

Amen. With every fiber of my being.

Lallie

[Badtranny]

try reading my post again, it was not even aimed at you.

Oh, ...well I'm sensitive!

...extremely cute but apparently sensitive as well :-)

[Melody Moore]

Anyhoo, I've come to the conclusion over the last year that CDs and TSs are very different people, coming from very different places. ...
I've gotten to where I can get a pretty good sense of a TS vs CD just by the things they talk about.

Ditto Mel, and it is amazing to see how much animosity, bigotry & transphobia actually exists within the transgender
community right throughout the gender spectrum. The transsexual community is by far one of the worst to deal with
because they also have the greatest demands & needs for support, along with the fact that every other TG person is
also fighting for acceptance & to find their place in society. So this is why others will often clash with the transsexuals.

The best meeting our group ever had was when a FTM was present and we had to help him walk like a man, talk like a man and sit like a man. He had great pointers for us too.

Being TS is not excluding people because of their gender identity.

This is ironic because brings me to a major issue that I am now working to try & resolve in my local support group.
First of all our support group also identifies itself as a 'Transgender' Support Group, but there are male to female
transsexuals who believe that my group should be exclusive & only support those who are serious about transition.

We have one FtM member in our local TG group who is the boyfriend of one of the other trans-girls that
so happens to be one of the people also saying our TG support group should only support those in transition.

Being a TS member of what is essentially a 'cross-dressers' forum has given me a lot of insight into
the minds & lives of other gender identity types, but I realise how different they are to transsexuals
& they should not always be excluded from a 'transgender community'. However having said that it
has to be understood that transsexuals also need their space to discuss & deal with issues that affect
them as well, so there is a need to have 'private' forums or support group meetings to serve their needs.

I can understand & appreciate all their concerns when it comes to our group being infiltrated by tranny-chasers or
cross-dressers who engage in transvestic fetishism or other paraphilias. But my aim is to open up certain aspects
of our group to the wider Transgender community so other gender identity types are not completely shut out & are
given a way to socialise & connect with others who are of similar gender identity types. But I can also see a number
of ways our community can benefit from this by not being so exclusive to just the transsexual community.

What has motivated me into action is the fact that I live in a regional centre, a city that has the largest LGBT population
outside of a major capital city. There is believed to be about 50 known transsexuals living here, but about 30 of them are
on the books with our local gender clinic. I am sure there are many others out their in the community that haven't found
themselves yet & might even currently identify as cross-dressers, but need more support. So I am sure that the numbers
of transsexual & transgender people in the local community is a lot higher than we are currently aware of. We have over
a dozen well known drag queens living here as well. Currently our numbers can vary from 6 to 12 people at our monthly
meetings & I think for the number of transsexuals & other transgender people living in Cairns these numbers are very poor.

After speaking with a few girls in the group & getting some feedback, others feel they are not getting anything beneficial
from our group, so I am working to change that with vocal feminisation training, female deportment, mannerisms & body
language training and help with fashion & beauty. These are all things to help male to female transsexuals settle quicker
& better into the community & to give them more self-confidence. If I can get the numbers up & get more female to male
transsexuals involved then we can look at also expanding the support services to help them as well. The best part is I have
the full endorsement of my local gender clinic for my current proposal because they know there is a need for these services.
But I cannot make any of this work with no funding, so those in the group have to stop being so exclusive & stop shutting
other people out if they would like to get better support from our group.

What I am planning on doing is opening up our support group more on the social front because I think others can really
benefit from this type of interaction. Transsexual people can also learn a lot about the other gender identity types. I am
on my local LGBT committee that helps organise other fund-raising events & I already know I have a lot of support coming
from a lot of other people including the manager of the my local state funded LGBT organisation. Part of my proposal is a
complete restructure of our support group & to also build a proper alliance with this LGBT organisation so we can help them
more by focus on helping anyone who they refer to us as their transgender support arm of their main LGBT support network.

I am in the process of organising a couple of major fund-raising events to help our transgender support group generate
some funding. These will be large well publicised events that open to all members of the public & transgender community
to include cross-dressers, drag queens & drag kings, gender queers & androgynies that will allow them to meet & connect.
So to think that their money is no good & we shouldn't include these people in our community would be extremely foolish.

[Katesback]

I have to say one thing. If someone has no desire to have SRS then they ARE NOT TS. If they dont have the means to have SRS then I can take that but if someone wants to be a girl with a penis they sure as hell are not TS!

[Melody Moore]

I have to say one thing. If someone has no desire to have SRS then they ARE NOT TS. If they dont have the means to have SRS then I can take that but if someone wants to be a girl with a penis they sure as hell are not TS!

We all know how you feel Kate, & the point you just virtually made I made in my very first post. But it isn't just about
having a desire to have SRS, it is about having the desire to transition & live as a member of the opposite gender &
sex to which you were born. So when are you going to get it in your head Kate that not all transsexuals can have SRS
for whatever reason, finance, health or otherwise which might mean they end up living just like any other girl, but they
have a penis which is nothing more than an over-sized clitoris anyway. But my main point is that it does NOT make them
any less a transsexual. Your gender identity is not defined by what is between your legs & neither is being a transsexual
like you seem to always want to believe. I agree with you on many things Kate, but this is where we differ in our opinions.

First 'transsexual' is a word that is used to describe a person who suffers from gender identity disorder & has a desire
to transition & live in a gender that is opposite to their biological birth sex. So it can't really be any of these things.

[Badtranny]

I have to say one thing. If someone has no desire to have SRS then they ARE NOT TS. If they dont have the means to have SRS then I can take that but if someone wants to be a girl with a penis they sure as hell are not TS!

I'll take the bait.

I've said earlier that I self identify as queer before TS, but my doctor and my therapist have both told me that TS is the proper term because of my desire to live outwardly as a woman. I use the TS term here because among the people that populate this board, I have the most in common with the TS community. I fully recognize that I'm technically a gender queer because I have and plan to keep my penis. The problem is I don't have a gender queer lifestyle or look. I should assimilate fairly well as just a regular girl so to the world I will appear as a TS woman if I don't pass well enough to be mistaken for natural born.

The penis stays and I have my reasons that I may or may not expound on in this forum. Okay I will eventually because I'm chatty and a tiny bit full of myself.

So you can't abide the pickle? I can't say I'm concerned about your disapproval. Personally I don't really understand how trans women can not be attracted to men. Men are so yummy, but just because I don't get something, doesn't mean it's not valid or worthwhile. It just means it ain't my thing.

The world is full of colorful characters and nobody on this particular planet gets to decide whose color is the right one.

[Katesback]

Re-read my post. I addressed this. Otherwise put without the desire to have a matching body the person in NOT transsexual. Anything BUT transsexual will do.

To support my statment I refer you to the latest version of the DSM.

We all know how you feel Kate, & the point you just virtually made I made in my very first post. But it isn't just about
having a desire to have SRS, it is about having the desire to transition & live as a member of the opposite gender &
sex to which you were born. So when are you going to get it in your head Kate that not all transsexuals can have SRS
for whatever reason, finance, health or otherwise which might mean they end up living just like any other girl, but they
have a penis which is nothing more than an over-sized clitoris anyway. But my main point is that it does NOT make them
any less a transsexual. Your gender identity is not defined by what is between your legs & neither is being a transsexual
like you seem to always want to believe. I agree with you on many things Kate, but this is where we differ in our opinions.

[Melody Moore]

Re-read my post. I addressed this. Otherwise put without the desire to have a matching body the person in NOT transsexual. Anything BUT transsexual will do.

Yes, I read your post very well Kate & I could clearly see your attempt to gloss this side of things over
here, but sorry the contradictions here in your very own statements sticks out like dog's testicles to me.

I have to say one thing. If someone has no desire to have SRS then they ARE NOT TS. If they dont have the means to have SRS then I can take that but if someone wants to be a girl with a penis they sure as hell are not TS!

Once again kate, when are you going to get it in your head that being a transsexual not
about what is between your legs or wanting SRS like you seem to always want to believe.
Some transsexuals never have SRS because of personal fears & concerns but does that
make them any less a transsexual? I don't think so & you only think your colour is the only
colour in a world that is full of very colourful characters when you really are in a minority.

I posted the proper definition about what really defines a transsexual, but still
you choose to ignore it, that is a very bigoted outlook that you have there Kate.

[Bree-asaurus]

Ok, let's examine that for a second.
Personal fears, concerns, etc.... are all "reasons," but do they have a "want" to?
Kate says they have to want to. ("desire")
SO, if the person has a want to, but isn't because of reasons, then they still may be TS. They just haven't overcome their "reasons."
Simple on both sides.

I wish I could "like" posts :P

I've been thinking about saying this, but didn't feel like jumping into the middle of yet another argument in these forums at the moment.

[Katesback]

I dont believe I have implied that gender identity has anything to do with what is between your legs.

As I said for someone to be TS they must have a desire to have a body that matches their mind. That does not mean they will ever get SRS. Only a very small few people ever get SRS in the grand sceme of things.

Those that have a gender idtenty that is female but want to have a penis is something else but not TS.

[Badtranny]

Wow, it looks like I'm polarizing the populace. Any other Post Ops want to pile on? Please do because those two aren't exactly making compelling arguments.

Kelly? Kaitlyn?

Anyone who is NOT a sterling example of rigid intolerance?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

No disapproval.
it seems logical that your lifestyle is most similar to a TS lifestyle...i think your analysis makes good sense..there is one big difference though... the endgame is not to assimilate and blend (although we tend to say that sometimes), the endgame is to "be"..
of course , as Bill Clinton would say, it depends on the definition of the word be

People that have srs either know how transcendent it is, how it changes everything, and how it opens up everything else in your mind (for good and bad), or they are conspiring together to trick crossdressers and gender queer folk into making a horrible mistake..

your choice to live a transsexual woman's lifestyle may be right for you, and it's that you living the lifestyle of an early TS...

but transsexuals close the deal or try and try and try...what we always find is that after the heady early days, which are especially heady if we can afford ffs, if we pass or are naturally pretty like you, the novelty wears off..the excitement is gone, it's just day to day ...to day...to day...and many ts do not get the blessing of femme features or size, and yet they go on...if you are a gender queer soul, you will find that time and energy you spend on playing your female only role will wear on you....that's just what is going to happen...and then you will find out what people are trying to tell you.. you'll either feel the need to take this further, or not...and if not, you may find yourself in the pickle..

[Badtranny]

Beautifully said Kaitlyn.

I disagree, but I find your post to be very thought provoking and I will concede that I may feel completely different about this next year.

I am only halfway through my HRT program after all. ;-)

I do take issue with at least one specific point, but your argument is so well done, that I think I'll just leave it at that.

Take note folks, this is how you shut me up.

[docrobbysherry]

Well, I don't know whether to feel disappointed or relieved! I've never THOT of myself as being TS.

However, using BadT's math, I'm 2/5ths a TS!

[Bree-asaurus]

According to the DSM IV (cited by Wikipedia so I don't know if it's 100% correct), the four criteria to diagnose gender disphoria:

1) Long-standing and strong identification with another gender

2) Long-standing disquiet about the sex assigned or a sense of incongruity in the gender-assigned role of that sex

3) The diagnosis is not made if the individual also has physical intersex characteristics.

4) Significant clinical discomfort or impairment at work, social situations, or other important life areas.

And the three criteria to diagnose a transexual:

1) The desire to live and be accepted as a member of the opposite sex, usually accompanied by the wish to make his or her body as congruent as possible with the preferred sex through surgery and hormone treatment

2) The transsexual identity has been present persistently for at least two years

3) The disorder is not a symptom of another mental disorder or a chromosomal abnormality

--- What's that? USUALLY accompanied by the wish to make his or her body AS CONGRUENT AS POSSIBLE with the preferred sex through surgery ---

Of course, definitions are changing all the time. But from what I gather, and because I have an open mind, the penis is not the be-all end-all when it comes to being transexual. You can be fine with your penis and still feel like you fit the female gender role rather than the male. Or maybe you can be indifferent about your penis, or maybe you want a vagina, but after weighing the pros and cons in your specific situation, sticking with the penis is better for you.

Who is anyone here to judge what they don't understand? We always complain about how so many others don't understand being transgender or transexual, but here we are saying that being transexual is black and white and if you don't follow another transexual's path, you're not transexual. This ignorance is ridiculous and while we of all people should know better, there are idiots everywhere. Even among us here in what we consider a safe zone.

Personally, I've gone back and fourth as to whether I'd want SRS. Sometimes I lean towards keeping my penis because my boyfriend and I use it (because he doesn't have one), and because it's friggin expensive as hell to get rid of. However, I keep going back to wishing it wasn't there, despite what fun and intimacy we do get from it.

No one here has the right to tell anyone else they are or are not a transexual... that's between them and their therapist. Why katesback keeps sticking around here is beyond me, because it seems every time she posts, it's just something blatantly obvious and negative, or something ignorant, telling people if they don't believe what she believes, they're wrong.