people are too caught up too much in the medical definitions...and melody i agree labels suck anyway, so lets just drop the wikepedia/dsm links..!! LOL...
the medical definitions are being built up over time.. they are different in different countries.. years ago they caused more harm then good and they've been changed multiple times...and they will change again..

Melody i think you missing the concept of desiring to keep your penis and liking your penis as compared to the laundry list of issues that cause TS women to miss out on srs...and i don't think it's a stretch for some to become resigned to keeping it..

To the billions of cisgendered women out there, having a vagina is a part of being a woman...none of them..NONE..WANT a penis.... i don't really care what some doctors cooked up for me and you... doctors are necessary and they mostly want to help...but a woman does not want a penis... and a mtf transsexual woman does not want a penis...it has NOTHING to do with reasons...we are talking about people that DESIRE to keep their penis....even if that person lives as female, that is different than transsexual

and bree no one is really judging...(at least i'm not)... i think your points are well taken but there are many people here that have done the surgery...and they have experienced life after the surgery, and they know what it's like..
and they are saying that they cannot imagine that a person that isnt interested in srs is the same as them...

you are right that it may not matter......
certainly there are lots of similarities and every one of us is allowed to live their life in happiness and acceptance...

it only gets tricky when people start talking issues...to transgendered people it's an identity crisis, so we tend to protect and cherish our understanding of our own identities..
unlike cisgendered people, we have to EARN our own identities!!!! it's an accomplishment for us...(so unfair, but that's besides the point)
and when we come to these forums to discuss life changing decisions, it's important to understand where a person is coming from.. it's not judging..it's important to help us all communicate and understand each other...