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Thread: Deliberately "NOT" passing.

  1. #1
    Senior Member UNDERDRESSER's Avatar
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    Deliberately "NOT" passing.

    I know that some of you don't try to pass. I've been contemplating going out crossdressed, but not trying to pass. In my case, I'm planning on starting out with a kilt, and finding what sort of response I get. Note, I'm planning on a hiking kilt, it's fairly obviously not a traditional kilt, but the cut and fit are distinctly different from a regular skirt. If I can deal with the reactions I get from that, i'm planning on a skirt, somewhat utilitarian, pockets, wash and wear type of thing, "hiking" skirt if you will. I'm not going to wear breast forms, or a wig, I might wear something unconventional as a top, maybe an embroidered Indian style tunic. I'd also like to wear opaque stockings, leggings, or thigh highs. The point is, I just want to be able to wear a different form of clothing, but not mimic the look of a female.

    How many of you do this? How many of you do the whole thing, in respect to clothing, but don't try to hide the fact you're male? i.e. stubble, beard, etc.
    "Normal is what you get when you average out the weirdness that everybody has." Quote from my SO

    Normal is a setting on a washing machine, or another word for average.

    The fact that I wear a skirt as a male should not be taken as a comment on what you do, or do not wear, or how you wear it.

  2. #2
    Cat's Eye Siren ArleneRaquel's Avatar
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    Never, never, never. I may not " pass " as often that I would like, but always wear female hair, and conceal as much as I can with foundation and concealer.
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  3. #3
    Girl next door Cristi's Avatar
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    I own a few kilts and have worn them quite often. (two 'hiking' kilts of a more traditional tartan material, and two 'utilikilts'.) Strangely, I get more attention (that I notice) when wearing a kilt than I do when fully dressed as a woman! But in no way has it been bad. I've done quite a bit of hiking and camping in a kilt, and also wear one often for yard work. I've never gotten a negative reaction.

    I've considered, when the temperature starts going down, adding tights under the kilt, but don't know if that would be crossing a line as far as acceptance goes. I DO, however, have nice wool knee socks that look great with it!

    I've always got my eye out for a nice top to go with the kilt (so far I've just worn a tshirt). Something like a loose fitting linen top would be nice, but I'd avoid going too 'feminine' with it.
    Last edited by Cristi; 12-02-2012 at 01:09 AM.
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  4. #4
    Silver Member justmetoo's Avatar
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    To the OP - that's a perfectly reasonable thing to do and i think it would be great if more guys did that. It could help break down some barriers and give more people more options. That said, so far when I've gone out I've dressed to not stand out, to blend in as much as i can. And I do enjoy the hair, makeup, etc. The whole "femme' package as it were. Freedom of expression should apply to everyone, whether that's someone fully crossdressed to appear as the "opposite' gender, partially dresssed and not trying to "pass", dressed as their own gender/birth sex, etc. As long as it's not obscene and doesn't hurt anyone it's all good.
    Good luck to you! I hope you don't "pass"!

  5. #5
    Member MonctonGirl's Avatar
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    A man going out in women's clothing and not attempting to pass is making one of the following two statements:

    1. I am doing this for a joke. ( And people will joke with you or give you a hard time in that spirit )

    or

    2. I have anti-social personality disorder or pent-up frustration and resentment and am deliberately seeking to bother people with my presence and seeking negative reactions and you can expect confrontation from me because I am insane and don't know it...best to avoid me like a plague


    Going out in a kilt - lots of Scots & Brits do it - but they have an appropriate top garment ( eg Blazer ) and socks. You will not get reactions from the kilt with which you can gauge reaction to full-femme.

    EDIT:

    I've thought alot about what you wrote - maybe you feel it's "baby steps" for your coming out
    but I think it is baby steps in the wrong direction and you may be too confused to see that doing it
    "half-assed" and failing on purpose is worse than trying your best and worrying about passing.

    You may be so afraid to fail that you are inclined to go that way to feel safe and not feel rejection
    from trying your hardest to look feminine and not succeeding. Maybe you just need some help
    from someone who can pick out a good outfit and do you makeup and consult on hair, etc.
    Last edited by MonctonGirl; 12-02-2012 at 04:44 AM.

  6. #6
    Silver Member noeleena's Avatar
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    Hi,

    Well im a Scot & could have worn a kilt many years ago. & nothing would have been said many of our people with in our regeon are Scots, im allso a Sottish member of our Soc,

    as a woman ill be wearing for our Scottish week end a cream long skirt a cream blouse & a tartan sash plus my bonnet known as a Glengarry with the tartan around it with a tassal on the top., most of us with in our Edwardian group are women , we do have about 5 men who come & they dress quite smart as well.

    I would like to say had you lived here in New Zealand in the south isl youd be more wellcome as to wearing kilts or even a skirt as a male it would not be strange .

    I on the other hand am a woman so for me being accepted is quite easy yet i dont show the facial features of a woman nore can i , mind you a lot of work & talking plus being interviewed for T V & papers helped me, in being accepted,

    Mind you , youd have ta have an acsent to pass here, a right southern roll your rrrrrr.s he he ... ill let ya off if ya do come over, Aye. my family comes from Kilmarnock , Scotland, & with the name of Loch-head. means Head of the Loch.

    Id say youll not be able to say it correctly though, its similar to the plane commany lockheed, said like Lo- heed you miss the ch out, oh well history lesson over,

    ...noeleena...

  7. #7
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    We don't often see men who wear skirts, but I quite like the look. I think it looks rather rugged, if it's done right, and if the guy has a lot of self-assurance. I guess the deciding factor is no attempt at having feminine legs, with shoes that are unmistakably male. I've posted pics in many threads, but here are a few more:

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_glFJiPFcSv...cobs-skirt.jpg
    http://owlposse.com/wp/wp-content/up...tBostonCom.jpg
    http://colleenanderson.files.wordpre...03/skirts2.jpg
    http://thesocietypages.org/socimages...42a9fdae22.jpg
    http://www.northwestcoin.ca/irenat01.jpg
    http://www.dividedbytruth.org/images/sissy_in_skirt.jpg

    I think these looks would raise a different kind of eyebrow:

    http://realmenhavespoken.files.wordp.../menskirt1.jpg
    http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...A0XqXx8fAGC-pT
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jwwhKpc9BN...0/P1030521.JPG
    http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000..._3_xlarge.jpeg

    The first group portrays men who are not attempting to cross-dress or look feminine, but who are attempting to redefine men's styles. The men in the second group are still presenting as men, but they do cross into the feminine realm with the way they've put their look together. I think that people would be confused by this in a different way than they would be, just seeing some guy who wears something that looks like a kilt.


    But, if you live in a conservative area, be prepared to raise eyebrows just the same:
    http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/talendor/skirt400.jpg
    Reine

  8. #8
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    I frequently wear skirts in public as a man. Usually this is for comfort in very hot weather - you need something that wafts in the breeze. I de-hair my legs and wear chunky sandals (my toes have very conspicuous Minx on them) and I get very few reactions, none of them negative (most of them are versions of "Wow" from both genders or "I love the skirt" from women). In cooler conditions I wear opaque tights and usually ballet type pumps but occasionally heels with fairly robust heels (slender heels would look too feminine). My legs look good, so WTH.

    I have a kilt but do not wear it at present due to the hair-free legs. Wearing a kilt makes you feel very masculine, and you end up walking with a swagger. But you DO get comments wearing a kilt, especially in England! If it winds 'em up this is encouragement to wear it more frequently in England.

  9. #9
    Guy wearing dresses
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    This is exactly the kind of animosity I was concerned about when joining this forum. I am not a wannabe woman. I'm a guy in a dress (or whatever).
    MonctonGirls divisive comments are not helpful. True TVism is neither a joke nor an anti-social personality disorder. The intent is not to annoy people. And frankly, unless you show up in church or some formal situation, you're unlikely to do so any more than the gg dressed as a **** or your typical "people of Wal*Mart attire.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by monctongirl View Post
    a man going out in women's clothing and not attempting to pass is making one of the following two statements:

    1. I am doing this for a joke. ( and people will joke with you or give you a hard time in that spirit )

    or

    2. I have anti-social personality disorder or pent-up frustration and resentment and am deliberately seeking to bother people with my presence and seeking negative reactions and you can expect confrontation from me because i am insane and don't know it...best to avoid me like a plague


    going out in a kilt - lots of scots & brits do it - but they have an appropriate top garment ( eg blazer ) and socks. You will not get reactions from the kilt with which you can gauge reaction to full-femme.

    Edit:

    I've thought alot about what you wrote - maybe you feel it's "baby steps" for your coming out
    but i think it is baby steps in the wrong direction and you may be too confused to see that doing it
    "half-assed" and failing on purpose is worse than trying your best and worrying about passing.

    You may be so afraid to fail that you are inclined to go that way to feel safe and not feel rejection
    from trying your hardest to look feminine and not succeeding. Maybe you just need some help
    from someone who can pick out a good outfit and do you makeup and consult on hair, etc.
    i am very insulted by this post!!

    There are some members such as myself that are feminine males and we incorporate feminine items into our everyday presentation. We don't pass, nor do we feel the need to pass. To insinuate that we have some type of personality disorder is downright insulting!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by ReineD View Post
    We don't often see men who wear skirts, but I quite like the look. I think it looks rather rugged, if it's done right, and if the guy has a lot of self-assurance. I guess the deciding factor is no attempt at having feminine legs, with shoes that are unmistakably male. I've posted pics in many threads, but here are a few more:

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_glFJiPFcSv...cobs-skirt.jpg
    http://owlposse.com/wp/wp-content/up...tBostonCom.jpg
    http://colleenanderson.files.wordpre...03/skirts2.jpg
    http://thesocietypages.org/socimages...42a9fdae22.jpg
    http://www.northwestcoin.ca/irenat01.jpg
    http://www.dividedbytruth.org/images/sissy_in_skirt.jpg

    I think these looks would raise a different kind of eyebrow:

    http://realmenhavespoken.files.wordp.../menskirt1.jpg
    http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:A...A0XqXx8fAGC-pT
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-jwwhKpc9BN...0/P1030521.JPG
    http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000..._3_xlarge.jpeg

    The first group portrays men who are not attempting to cross-dress or look feminine, but who are attempting to redefine men's styles. The men in the second group are still presenting as men, but they do cross into the feminine realm with the way they've put their look together. I think that people would be confused by this in a different way than they would be, just seeing some guy who wears something that looks like a kilt.


    But, if you live in a conservative area, be prepared to raise eyebrows just the same:
    http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/talendor/skirt400.jpg
    Reine,

    The idea is not not look completely male by adding feminine items such as skirts and shoes. Not all men want to look rugged. Where does this notion come from? Some men want the freedom to look both masculine and feminine at the same time! The idea is to break-down barriers regarding what is acceptable for males and females by blending, much like women have done in their incorporation of many male fashion items (see articles in Cosmo and other magazines over the last 10 years).

    Quote Originally Posted by willnotwill View Post
    This is exactly the kind of animosity I was concerned about when joining this forum. I am not a wannabe woman. I'm a guy in a dress (or whatever).
    MonctonGirls divisive comments are not helpful. True TVism is neither a joke nor an anti-social personality disorder. The intent is not to annoy people. And frankly, unless you show up in church or some formal situation, you're unlikely to do so any more than the gg dressed as a **** or your typical "people of Wal*Mart attire.
    I sympathize and completely agree with you. I am very insulted by MonctonGirls comments. I would like to see the mods delete her insulting post.
    Last edited by Eryn; 12-02-2012 at 04:24 PM. Reason: Merged three consecutive posts. Please use the multiquote button at the bottom right of each post to put all your replys in one post.
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    Platinum Member Beverley Sims's Avatar
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    I can see what you want to do even if it is something I would not do I would still talk and associate with you.
    Others have been criticized for offering objections, let them have their say and do not be offended by it, a bit like what you are suggesting here and expecting full acceptance. I myself would ask,"Is this just a red rag held in front of a bull"?
    Well the bull has charged, wave it on and let us know how you get on.
    I know you have not replied yet but is it worth arguing?
    Go out and do your stuff and let us know the responses.
    Work on your elegance,
    and beauty will follow.

  12. #12
    I accept myself as is Gillian Gigs's Avatar
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    First things first, lighten up everyone! I totally understand where the orginal comments are coming from. Some of us are just guys that happen to like certain types of clothing. Regardless of where or how we all start out, some of us evolve to a point of wanting to wear the clothes regularly. If I could live in the "perfect world" I would wear lingerie, skirt, and hose every day, no passing attempt. I would wear a guy shirt, and good comfortable guy shoes, not that I don't have heels, it's just easier walking in sneakers. Yes, from the outside I would look like a guy with a skirt and stockings on, SO WHAT. No one is looking to get smart ass comments whether we are out in public, or on this site, we are all looking for the freedom to express ourselves, and clothing is a type of freedom expression.

    Underdresser, you go guy/girl whatever you choose and best of luck getting your freedom!!!!!!!
    I like myself, regardless of the packaging that I may come in! It's what is on the inside of the package that counts!

  13. #13
    Just a touch of class Lynn Marie's Avatar
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    [SIZE="4"]This is a forum for cross dressers. If you just want to wear kilts outdoors, then why are you here? A million Scots men wear kilts and look good doing it. It's already been done and done well. Time to get dressed, step into your heels, paint your face, and crown your glory with some big Texas hair and step out and strut your stuff! [/SIZE]

  14. #14
    Girl from the Eagles Nest reb.femme's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie001 View Post
    I sympathize and completely agree with you. I am very insulted by MonctonGirls comments. I would like to see the mods delete her insulting post.
    Hi Jamie,

    MonctonGirl rasies a legitimate point of view, if not one that you can agree with. Maybe the reply is harsh, but how much it plays out in real life is yet to be discovered. I personally would not go the way you are going, but then conversely, you would not follow my path,....quite understandably.

    However, to argue for personal freedom of expression and then to ask the mods to delete a reply is a little contradictory. That's why we have the ignore button. That way, you don't have to see a particular posters comments or posts, unless someone else quotes them that is!

    Rebecca (Today's Devil's Advocate)
    Last edited by reb.femme; 12-02-2012 at 10:38 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArleneRaquel View Post
    Never, never, never. I may not " pass " as often that I would like, but always wear female hair, and conceal as much as I can with foundation and concealer.
    Ditto--what she said
    [SIZE="4"][/SIZE]

  16. #16
    Platinum Member kimdl93's Avatar
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    Not me. I don't want to attract curiosity or attention by going out. I seek the opposite...the opportunity to literally blend in.

  17. #17
    Senior Member UNDERDRESSER's Avatar
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    Thanks for all your replies, even Moncton Girl's, though I think you didn't get my point.

    I have never fully dressed, even at home. I am not sure what, if anything, I will get out of it. I intend to try it, with my GF's help, just to see if it does antything for me, and because I'm curious as to how good I can do.

    As far as the going out "half dressed" I find I like wearing a skirt and stockings at home, I want to experiment with how it feels out and about. I have taken a walk like this, and it feels more comfortable than pants or shorts. If I can do so without it turning into confrontations, then why not? I also want to be more colorful, I want to wear stuff that is a bit more spectacular than I'm used to. But I still want to be myself, not a female.

    This is close to the look I have in my head.

    http://www.forestcityfashionista.com...reet-west.html

    Maybe with something from here
    http://www.monarch-garments.com/tunics.asp
    or here
    http://www.vintagetrends.com/Vintage...&ST=Ethnic&SS=

    The "problem" such as it is, with this forum, is that some of us don't understand that crossdressing is a very wide umbrella term. There are a thousand different reasons we do this thing. Yours isn't the only one. it isn't even the only one you'll have.
    "Normal is what you get when you average out the weirdness that everybody has." Quote from my SO

    Normal is a setting on a washing machine, or another word for average.

    The fact that I wear a skirt as a male should not be taken as a comment on what you do, or do not wear, or how you wear it.

  18. #18
    Member Aloha Jayne's Avatar
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    I just wanna be me. This is obviously a hot topic. But I'm with the OP on this. I still have my goatee. I would shave it off but the SO likes it. And I've never tried wigs or make-up but I'm not against it and want to some day. While the thought of passing and being treated as a woman in public is very intoxicating, I just wanna be me. If that means wearing a cute top, and a skirt with my nails done and some accessories with no make-up or wig, then that's what I want.

    Yes the public gets freaky about it. I find that they perceive me as:
    1. a total loon
    2. so effing rich I don't care what they think
    3. I know something they don't.

    And in each of these cases, I get a lot of respect because you don't want to mess with any of the three.

    I like where you're going with this underdresser. You do what you want and everyone else can go stick their head in the sand. ^_^
    Last edited by Aloha Jayne; 12-02-2012 at 10:55 AM.
    I just couldn't wear my big girl panties today.

  19. #19
    Senior Member UNDERDRESSER's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aloha Jayne View Post
    I just wanna be me. This is obviously a hot topic. But I'm with the OP on this. I still have my goatee. I would shave it off but the SO likes it. And I've never tried wigs or make-up but I'm not against it and want to some day. While the thought of passing and being treated as a woman in public is very intoxicating, I just wanna be me. If that means wearing a cute top, and a skirt with my nails done and some accessories with no make-up or wig, then that's what I want.

    Yes the public gets freaky about it. I find that they perceive me as:
    1. a total loon
    2. so effing rich I don't care what they think
    3. I know something they don't.

    And in each of these cases, I get a lot of respect because you don't want to mess with any of the three.


    I like where you're going with this underdresser. You do what you want and everyone else can go stick their head in the sand. ^_^
    Love it! Though of course, you have to have confidence!
    "Normal is what you get when you average out the weirdness that everybody has." Quote from my SO

    Normal is a setting on a washing machine, or another word for average.

    The fact that I wear a skirt as a male should not be taken as a comment on what you do, or do not wear, or how you wear it.

  20. #20
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    Very interesting thread. It looks to me like a "normal" person could stumble onto this thread and easily get the impression that there is a right way and wrong to CD? [based on some of the responses] Where can I get a copy of this RULEBOOK?

    According to MANY of you, a [small] man who wears female running shoes [simply because they fit better] IS a CDer. I would love to know what the CDing RULEBOOK says he must/should wear with those shoes? Do the running shoes mean he does not need to be carrying a purse, or allow him to wear little or no makeup?

    What about the 5'11", 250 pound woman who CHOOSES to wear men's pants. She too, is a CDer according to most of you. What does the CDing RULEBOOK say about what else she HAS TO wear?

    I know WOMEN who will argue to the death that high heels should NEVER be worn with jeans.

    Are THESE women ^^^^ right or wrong?

    Or... can the answer to that question be found in a different rulebook?

  21. #21
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    There are times when I try to pass then there are times when I just love the clothes. I see no big deal either way it is society's problem not mine or ours. BTW; I have said this before and will say again that I will be more than happy to be any ot you ladies wingman and take all the flak that comes our way. We all deserve to be happy so live the life you want that makes you happy.

    Finally, You probably heard some of the alternative lifestyle phrase's "just because you like women don't hate because I am a man" or vise versa. Well to all in this wonderful group "Don't hate me because I am a man who dresses like a woman".

    Love to all

  22. #22
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie001 View Post
    Reine,

    The idea is not not look completely male by adding feminine items such as skirts and shoes. Not all men want to look rugged. Where does this notion come from? Some men want the freedom to look both masculine and feminine at the same time! The idea is to break-down barriers regarding what is acceptable for males and females by blending, much like women have done in their incorporation of many male fashion items (see articles in Cosmo and other magazines over the last 10 years).
    I know, sorry. I was attempting to show what men who wear skirts might get away with, vs. not. I'm looking at it from the average onlooker's viewpoint, if it is important for a CDer to not seem too "out there" under current cultural gender-norms. Also, there was a recent thread where some members said their aim was not to look feminine but to wear skirts, and so I posted pics of a look that might work for this, with the idea that skirts do not necessarily need to be feminine (i.e. kilts or utility skirts).

    If it is important for you to incorporate femininity without presenting as a woman (a look that is closer to the second set of pics that I posted), you need to be prepared to get stared at even more in my opinion than just wearing a utility kilt, or even to be seen as gay. I know that men who wish to incorporate femininity in their appearance are not necessarily gay, but I'm afraid this is just how most people see the men who attempt to feminize their legs, or their nails, or wear heels or incorporate other decidedly feminine items of clothing all while presenting as men. But, if this doesn't matter to you, then all is good.

    Personally, I much prefer going out with my SO when she is fully dressed and presenting as a woman than if s/he should attempt to combine a feminine/masculine look in guy mode. This way, my SO does pass under the radar to most people until she actually interacts with someone, at which time her inner being shines through and the person/people we interact with are more likely to accept who she is rather than think of her as just being "weird", as people do, who look at others from afar. But, this is just me.
    Reine

  23. #23
    Weirdest woman ever! docrobbysherry's Avatar
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    Let's put it this way shall we? Maybe something that we can ALL agree upon?

    R there ANY members here who r TG who when dressed completely CAN PASS effectively but choose to go out partially dressed and NOT PASS? I don't think so.

    For me, Underesser, the entire point of dressing is to look like as hot a female as possible. Anything less is unsatisfactory. And, since I can't pass, going out dressed like a granny is completely pointless.

    Which makes me wonder what u feel the point of your dressing is?

    By the way, I wear masks to hide my old, wrinkled, BEARDED face!
    Last edited by docrobbysherry; 12-03-2012 at 01:39 AM.
    U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.

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  24. #24
    Aspiring Member Dawn cd's Avatar
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    I must say I shared (put didn't post) some of monctongirl's reaction, because in-your-face presentation is often perceived as a hostile act. It can be interpreted as: "Look at me. I don't care what you think because you're insignificant." Underdresser could have clarified things by explaining WHY he wanted to appear in public that way. Is it to expand the options of male attire, as some have suggested, or another reason? As someone who also affects an androgynous style, I am not unsympathetic.

  25. #25
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    Some very interesting and provoking thoughts.

    At where I work, there is a fellow that wear a utility kilt almost daily during the summer months. Most folks here do have an initial look but never really have a bad reaction. Most folks here thought it was awesome.

    I really appreciated the trail blazers whom are taking down the gender specific clothing barriers that society had placed on us. I wish I have the courage that many of you have shown. May be one day...

    While shopping for ski jackets for the boys, my wife had commented that society is very accepting for girl to wear boy clothes but not the other way around.

    But I think that barrier is slowly being broken down. Afterall, it is just a piece of cloth that we wrap around ourselves. It is no different than wrapping a towel around the waist after stepping out of the shower!

    I have to have more courage...

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