Small progress

[Aly Cat]

So yesterday, I grilled some hamburgers for dinner and while going outside, I decided...meh, what the hell....and slipped on my wifes flats (actually flats I bought for myself that my wife forbid me to wear and then stole) and walked outside with them on to do the grilling.
My kids were out on the trampoline and while things were cooking, I laid back on my patio recliner. My son came over to me and gave me a hug and was just hanging out with me. After about 5 min or so, he was like...are those mommy's shoes? I chuckled and was like...yep! He laughed a little and said..they have hearts on them. I looked on the sole of the shoe and saw the hearts and said "they sure do dont they". I like em. These shoes are super comfy. He laughed again and ran back to the trampoline to go back to playing. He was laughing but he really could care less. At 9 years old, and being the sweetest kid on the planet, he just accepted it in stride and went on.
After he went back to playing, I got up and checked on the burgers. My wife came outside and brought some cheese to put on them and noticed my shoes. She made an exclamation sound but then quickly recovered and didnt say a word.
When bringing all the food in the house, I noticed that she had moved my shoes right next to the door so that I wouldnt wear hers anymore. She took it well I thought. Of course later on, I wore my shoes up to our room and took them off there so that they werent as easily accessible hehe.

Later on, my son put my wifes flats on and was running around the back yard saying...I stole your shoes daddy! it made me laugh...my wife didnt find it as funny and yelled at him to take them off and put them back inside. When we got inside, I gave him a hug and told him not to worry, that he wasnt in trouble. I love that kid!

[docrobbysherry]

Better not let him see u wearing a bra and forms. He may borrow those and your wife will set Eva's boundries in the next state!

[Aly Cat]

Lol sorry, ya. It was that he didnt care at all about me wearing them. My son is probably one of the most accepting, heart warming, amazing children anywhere. He is one of those kids that if he sees someone else struggling with anything, he will do what he can to help them. If he sees a kid being picked on, he sticks up for them. He also tutors other kids in his school when they have problems with their work. My mom was saying that at 9 years old, she has never seen another kid act like him. He truly is something else.
I did think it was super funny when he was running around the yard wearing the flats telling me that he had stolen MY shoes lol.

[Beverley Sims]

That is called chipping away at the wife's objections.
Bit hard to object when the children join in the fun.

[Marie-Elise]

But, yes, a good story and I hope your wife comes around. To be honest, I think she will.

[ReineD]

Oh gosh, do be careful.

Your wife gave you those ultimatums a while back and if the two of you have not spoken about it since, and if she isn't blowing up, this is most definitely not a good sign. The worst part is if she thinks that your influence will turn your son into a CDer.

Before I say much more you need to know that I fully support my SO 110%, she identifies as dual-gender, we go out a lot in public together while she is fully presenting as a woman (breast forms, makeup, the works), and we've been doing this for years.

But at the same time I have spoken to many GGs over the years and I can recognize situations that are about to blow up, and why they do blow up. This happens when each partner takes a stance, they don't discuss things, and they each try to push the envelope to the point where they cannot admit to themselves how irritated they are becoming with the other's behavior. It's a type of passive-aggressive behavior (you wore the femme shoes knowing that it would not fly with her, and she put your shoes by the door as a message that she doesn't want you to wear the femme shoes ... ESPECIALLY when the kids are around.

You're irritated with your wife's non-acceptance, she is irritated with the CDing, and NO ONE is talking about it! OUCH, be careful!!

What ever happened with your idea of seeing a marital therapist? ... Not with the idea of getting her to like or even accept the CDing, but with the goal of having her recognize that you do have a real need to do this, it is not a choice for you, she doesn't have to be involved, but if you express yourself outside of her line of sight she can learn enough about this to not allow it to destroy her internal landscape.

If you continue to do things that will irritate her like this without discussing the issue rationally with her, she will continue to build even more resentment until the possibility of having her accept your need to do this will become nearly impossible! I cannot emphasize this enough!

Please know that I understand the non-accepting GG mindset very well. I cannot count the GGs that I've spoken to about this and that I've tried to help with their levels of acceptance, knowing that fundamentally THEY will be happier internally if THEY stop driving themselves crazy over it.

The GGs who can eventually turn things around for themselves (thus making it infinitely easier on their husbands), are those who do not feel as if they are pushed into corners.

[Di]

I do not get this? Playing silly games with shoes???Just to bug your wife?You both need to talk and enough with games already.

[Aly Cat]

Thank you for the insight on this. I do plan on still seeing a therapist to help me work things out. I have spoken to a few already. I understand thst the passive aggressiveness is never good but talking about it never seems to work. Whenever we talk, i get guilted into things because of a woe is me attitude that she always takes whenever she has a problem with anything. On top of that, she is (or acts) completely oblivious to the fact that i am bursting at the seams here with bad moods and high stress levels and shes like...oh, you have another bad day at work? Of course when she says that, the kids are standing right there...because they are kids and want to be with their parents...and all i want to do is scream out NO! ITS BECAUSE I AM BEING FORCED TO SUPRESS A PART OF MYSELF THAT WAS NEVER MEANT TO BE FREAKING SUPRESSED! See, when i tell her that this is a part of who i am, you know what she says? No its not...i dont believe that. Youre not born this way and its just satan using this to attack our family.....
I mean, what do you do with that?? Go back and forth like little kids saying yes i was, no you weren't, yes i was, etc. To me, its like saying....the sky is blue and her responding no it isnt, its yellow. You would be so blown away with the answer that you almost dont know what to say.
Fighting with her is like trying to relocate the pyramids...it just aint happenin.
I would have to say you are right. A blowup is about to happen soon, but that seems to be the only way stuff can be resolved with her. To be honest, im ready for it and almost looking forward to it so that all this crap can be back out in the open instead of swept under the rug which is what she likes to do and then deny that its there.
Sorry for totally venting. This, as you can imagine, is a big deal for me and ive just about had enough one way or another. I really am sorry for blowing up. This restriction is choking the life out of me and its gotta end.

[Greenie]

I feel so sad about this my dear. I want her to become more accepting of you. Unfortunately, it seems like she isn't budging at all. You will see a lot of posts on this site saying "go at her pace." Or "go slow and set boundaries together" While I think you would be one of the men who would do this, your wife is making it IMPOSSIBLE for you to meet her halfway. I know from personal conversations with you that she just is resistant. I don't really know if she ever will come around. Your situation is one of the few in which I actually think you need to PUSH. However, be prepared to push her away instead of push her to acceptance. you know that being passive aggressive is not the right way. But I feel so bad for you because I honestly believe you have been pushed to the brink and might not be able to handle her nonacceptance much longer.

I KNOW you have talked to her. But you need to sit her down, look her straight in the eye and say "this is who I am. I cannot change this about myself" maybe compare it to an aspect about her, appeal to her emotional nature as a woman and reach out. Tell her that she can come to you WHENEVER, and say ANYTHING she wants about your dressing. But as of today, here on out. You need her to compromise. Her telling you what you can and cannot do... Is controlling and that is unacceptable. Relationships are not about control. Telling you if you dress she is going to take your kids is NASTY. You are being passive aggressive, meanwhile she is being an AGRESSIVE control freak.

She needs a jolt to reality. :/ I don't have any advice how to get through to her. But you need to. and soon.

[ReineD]

Eva, she is mad right now. I'm not pointing fingers, I really am not because I do know why it took so long to tell her, but she can't see this right now. Instead she feels betrayed.

We've had GG polls in the past when we had polls, we've had many threads from GGs who've said what they hated most about the CDing, and BY FAR the worst offense is a feeling that they've been lied to. You heard the girl on the radio show, she said the same thing. GGs see the unwillingness to share this part of yourself with her for so long as a huge betrayal of the trust that should exist between partners.

THIS is why there is no talking to her right now, but it doesn't mean that it will always be like this. In the meantime, for your own best chances of having things turn around, please you must not get into a push/pull battle of will between you. Get Thyself To A Marital Counselor ASAP!!! Again, not with the view of convincing her that the CDing is wonderful or anything, but for you BOTH to learn more effective relationship skills that include among others, the ability to discuss things calmly, the ability to really LISTEN to the other person and try to understand, the ability to acknowledge the other person's truth, and the ability to compromise which means that each of you will win some and lose some. In the beginning. And then it will get better.

This will not be resolved overnight so do prepare yourself for at least a year or two of working through this, but first work through learning how to communicate about everything (not just the CDing), and that nothing is ever, ever an "all or nothing" proposition. Life just isn't like that whether the situation is CDing or anything else.

And I agree ... you don't want to fight her and it's OK to vent in here, this is the purpose of this forum. But, do try a different approach than you're using now. I can only see disaster ahead if you both continue like this. Sometimes blow ups can clear the air, but if your wife is so adamantly against the CDing (she is actually really feeling as if you betrayed her), a blow up can have disastrous results.

Marital counseling, marital counseling, marital counseling!

[Aly Cat]

At this point, all i want to do right is cry myself to sleep. I spent hours working on my little room in the shed for some personal space and now it doesnt even matter. unstoppable forces should never have to deal with immovable objects. Its never a good outcome. I wish there was another way. She didnt mention it at all for the rest of the day after i told her why i needed that little space above the shed and why i was going to use it. I was only able to tell her becsuse we had a short break with the kids running inside for a minute. I was hoping she would think about it and maybe bring it up later...she didnt. Dang it, why should i have to fight so hard to get someone who is supposed to love me for better or worse to love me through this? Ugh...freakin tears are getting on my phone. I need to go...

[ReineD]

You will get your space to CD. You will NOT have to suppress this for the rest of your life, because you simply can't.

But, you may not get your space next week. Don't give up, just work on it from the beginning rather than start in the middle, and this means telling your wife that you are deeply unhappy, discouraged, and near a break-down (it's true), and you need her to go with you to marital counseling so that the two of you can learn to discuss your issues rationally and as equal partners rather than one person dictating to the other person how it's going to fly.

[Di]

Since she feels that way about it......I normally say have her come here to understand and talk to other GGs..thats not going to work.
So get to a therapist so she can understand its not wrong.....you are the same person,,,,just so she gets it. You do not seem able to talk to each other and this can help.
Do not make promises you can not keep it just is not going to help things in the long run.
c h i l l
let her understand....you cannot expect her in 2 months be on the same page as you/
THIS can get fixed hang in there

[Greenie]

Reine,

I agree with all your points. I think its important to note that since eva's wife is "super religious" he is asking her to change her fundamental beliefs as a Christian. I think eva is a Christian as well. I would hate for them to try to spend years working this out, only for them to still get divorced and separate the family due to her strict religious beliefs. I honestly think that no matter how much you love someone, or how much they love you, there are people who's love for god, will outweigh any love for another human being and those who just cannot and will not waiver on their beliefs. Eva needs to find out if his wife has that sort of religious conviction. Counseling can help them find that, but if this is so. I honestly don't think it will change years down the road. People with that much love for god, don't normally change their idea of what is a sin.

Eva can you spend the rest of your life with your wife looking at you life you are a sin and a plague on the family? Also I think she is looking at this as a choice, not part of who you are.

[Aly Cat]

Well, ive gotten some rest so I'm not as emotional now. I guess the only thing I can do is to sit down with her and explain that the current situation is not working for me and something needs to change. Whether she can live with those changes is something she is going to have to determine for herself. I wish there was an easier way, but there seems not to be. Man, this is gonna be tough.

[Angela Campbell]

We've had GG polls in the past when we had polls, we've had many threads from GGs who've said what they hated most about the CDing, and BY FAR the worst offense is a feeling that they've been lied to. You heard the girl on the radio show, she said the same thing. GGs see the unwillingness to share this part of yourself with her for so long as a huge betrayal of the trust that should exist between partners.

This is the paradox. You are afraid to share this with a spouse for years because you fear a bad reaction. She now knows and has a bad reaction. She is mad because you didn't share this sooner so she refuses to allow you to ever share it ....doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

[Di]

I remember another couple that the wife refused to try to understand because of religious reasons AND they did a DADT when it came to the dressing. Set up times where you could be alone and not bothered to dress.
But you need to get her to hear it is not a choice it is a part of you and you can work out something. Best Wishes

[ReineD]

This is the paradox. You are afraid to share this with a spouse for years because you fear a bad reaction. She now knows and has a bad reaction. She is mad because you didn't share this sooner so she refuses to allow you to ever share it ....doesn't make a lot of sense to me.

I know, and I understand your point. But, in my view it is better to be upfront, face the tears or negative reactions, and slog through it step by painful step until some form of resolution is reached, than to prefer sweeping it under the carpet for fear of disrupting the status quo.

I don't know why many (most?) men shudder and become paralyzed when a wife says, "We HAVE to talk", while most women do not fear difficult conversations even if they are painfully difficult.

Is this a Mars vs. Venus thing?

[Aly Cat]

Well, I had the talk with her and nothing got resolved. I explained that over the last two months of not dressing, that not a single day has gone by where I have not thought about dressing and that I cant stand it anymore. She didnt respond to any of it. I explained that I was looking for a therapist to help me sort things out. She then said I needed to go to a church counselor and I refused. I explained that I wanted an unbiased counselor that wouldnt try and swing me one way or the other. She got mad at that and told me that she felt like she didnt know me at all and that I'm not the same person she married and that she thought religiously speaking, we were going two separate directions. She told me that 10 years ago, I would have wanted to go to a christian counselor. I explained that I didnt want the agenda that so many of them have. She blew up and stormed out and that was the end of that. So....great talk! (Sarcastic) nothing got resolved once again...

[ReineD]

Ouch again. I'm stumped when it comes to dogmatic religious beliefs. I never know if they are true beliefs or if people conveniently hide behind religion to not face things they need to face. I don't know what else to say, other than to remove any discussion of the CDing from the conversation and insist that your wife go with you to a marital counselor so the two of you can learn how to talk without storming out of rooms.

[Aly Cat]

I mean, religiously speaking, they don't have a leg to stand on if they look at all the facts. The problem is that people hide their fears behind religion and bury their heads in the sand. No a whole lot you can do in a situation like that. I do know that at this point, I'm planting my feet for better or worse and making a stand. She doesnt have to like it, but she does have to acknowledge that this isnt going to go away and that its a part of who I am. What she does with that is entirely up to her. If its something she can live with, then good. If not, then at least we don't spend the last 2/3 of our life fighting about it and wasting time being unhappy. My sister suggested a formal separation but stay in the same house. The house is big enough with a guest bedroom suite to keep things separate, I'm just concerned about the interaction. Financially, neither of us can live on our own...well I can, but with kids in the mix, id want to be sure they are taken care of.

[ReineD]

My ex and I (at his suggestion) lived in separate rooms in the same house. This was the beginning of the end for me, and we filed for divorce a few years later.

[kellycan27]

One of big hinderances to transition seems to be the "loss" aspects. "Be prepared to lose everything"... Is a common statement made on these boards. We move forward knowing that there is a distinct possibility of these losses could very well happen. There is a lot of emphasis put on this when someone says.. I want to transition.
Should the threat of these losses be of any less concern to a wife who may in fact lose her husband, father to her children, the possible loss of family and friends? The possible loss of his income? Some people act like it shouldn't be a big deal for their wife or SO to accept, but are themselves scared s*****ss at the prospect, so much so that they stay in limbo.