Transgender vs Gender Nonconforming

[sanderlay]

I've been doing some research into the two terms Transgender verses Gender Nonconforming as it relates to myself. Both terms are prominently in the Standards of Care version 7 some of us might use. And seeing how many persons dislike the term transgender I decided to research it. Before this I thought I was transgendered CD, cross-dresser. I did not understand why many were rejecting it. Now I don't think transgender applies to myself either given what I found.

Transgender's purest meaning is...
1. A person appearing or attempting to be a member of the opposite sex, as a transsexual or habitual cross-dresser.

So seeing this it seems transgender is the wrong word to describe myself. It has it links in the gender binary which is not what I'm trying to present as. I'm not trying to be the opposite but a mix of male and female.

Gender Nonconforming is two words and so I'll look at them separately.

Gender's purest meaning is...
2. Sexual identity, (which I see as gender identity), especially in relation to society or culture.

Nonconforming's purest meaning is...
a. 1. Not conforming; declining conformity; especially, not conforming to the established church of a country.

So putting Gender Nonconforming all together I get...
1. Gender identity that is declining conformity.

So for myself a Gender Nonconforming CD seems to be the better terms. Now keep in mind I know who I am. I don't like labels very much. But if I'm going to describe myself to someone I want to use the closest terms possible with these least possibility of being misunderstood. I also use these terms / words as a starting point and not a definitive definition of myself.

So given this information... what words might you use... or do you have another term(s)?

Transgender... Gender Nonconforming... or ... your word(s)

[Rogina B]

Transgender covers everyone...Gender non conforming has a lot of scope as well.

[kimdl93]

I agree with Rogina. We can parse these terms until they are practically devoid of meaning, but why bother.

[AllieSF]

I am transgender and I crossdress. I like the umbrella idea when trying to explain to others when I need to explain. I also think that the word "transgender" sounds better to others or at least to me anyway. I try to put myself in that other person's shoes for a minute when they first see me. here in the USA crossdresser is a pretty accepted term regardless of what many may think that it means. I think "transgender" with all the recent LGBT legislation, controversies about rights also may carry a little more weight elevating my activity/hobby to something frivolous and maybe weird for some to a little higher level. It is probably just a dream on mine, but maybe it does make a difference to the many strangers I meet over time, so if it helps a few that may have a multiplying affect to help others better understand us and maybe better tolerate and accept us. It has been, is and will be a long process to get where we want everyone else to be. But one step forward is always worth it.

[Rachael Leigh]

You know I'm good for me just MtF crossdresser I mean that's what I am since for me my gender is always male it works for me.

[Erica Marie]

Gender non-conforming or gender neutral may refer to outer appearance. What we feel inside cannot be labeled. Everyday I struggle with labels, when will it be alright to just be who we are?

[Michelle789]

Transgender is an umbrella term for anyone who's gender identity or gender expression is different from their assigned birth sex. Gender non-conforming is anyone whose gender expression doesn't conform to the expectations of their assigned birth sex, or the gender they identify with. At least that's what it means to me.

Personally I'm trying to remove myself from labels.

[stacycoral]

I like the term T-Girl myself, more than a cd and less than transexal.

[ReineD]

WPATH: World Professional Association for Transgender Health

I should think that no one will argue with the WPATH definitions located in the Glossary, on page 222 of "The Standard of Care for the Health of Transsexual, Transgender, and Gender-Nonconforming People, Version 7" (2011)

http://www.wpath.org/uploaded_files/...0SOC,%20V7.pdf

Gender-nonconforming: Adjective to describe individuals whose gender identity, role, or expression differs from what is normative for their assigned sex in a given culture and historical period.

Transgender: Adjective to describe a diverse group of individuals who cross or transcend culturally define categories of gender. The gender identity of transgender people differs to varying degrees from the sex they were assigned at birth.

Gender-nonconforming describes an individual.

Transgender describes a diverse group of individuals, among whom are the gender-nonconforming people.

People get confused, because the media uses the term "transgender" extensively in stories that describe people who have or who are transitioning, or who appear in public presenting as their target gender. I suppose using the term "transgender" in the media makes sense. It's not up to the person writing the article to come up with a determination as to whether the subject is transsexual or not, since everyone's circumstances are different. So even in this sense, "transgender" is a catch-all term.

[Jacqueline Winona]

This one again? Reine, I do disagree with it, I'll go with the Berkeley definition in the other thread over any others. Sanderly, you're def. of transgendered describes exactly what I think it means. Transgender implies a lot more than just dressing up once in a while.This is too subjective a subject to say everyone is part of the group, whether you like it or not. There's nothing wrong with identifying as TG, but there's also nothing wrong with saying you don't identify as such. It's a personal thing. We're kind of getting away from labeling people as this or that in every other part of life (I think I read that there are 54 ways to describe your gender on Facebook?), so why is it so important to come up with one definition here?

[ReineD]

Well Winona, you'll be disagreeing with an international board of experts on all matters trans.

But, this is your prerogative. I can start calling my television set a watermellon if I want to. People won't know what I mean though when I describe where I saw last night's Mad Men episode.


Edit - Sorry Winona, I hadn't read the Berkeley definition, but I agree with you now. It also defines transgender as an umbrella term for diverse individuals, among whom are crossdressers (transvestites), transgenderists, genderqueer, etc.

http://geneq.berkeley.edu/lgbt_resou...ms#transgender

[docrobbysherry]

Potahto, potayto. Now, where did I leave my bra??

[ReineD]

I get the people who don't want labels or who don't want to define themselves, and who are tired of rehashing all these terms. I agree, it is tiring. But, it's also an education and hopefully one day everyone in the community will agree with the experts.

Still, there are people who do wish to define themselves, such as the OP, and I think it's a mark of disrespect to dismiss this.

[Rachael Leigh]

See I guess for me is there are days I feel like blending my wardrobe or maybe one day add a little makeup but still look male mostly, than I want to go for the whole 9 yards wig makeup dress and all so not sure what that makes me.
Not to mention days when I'm all guy, except for my shaved legs of course which not sure that's male or a female thing anymore

[ReineD]

Leigh, I guess this makes you a very fluid person.

[GaleWarning]

When we can learn to stop labelling ourselves and others, then we truly will be on our way to simply being ...

[Tracii G]

Holy cow not this again!
Why do some people have the overwhelming need to fit in a category on a chart that some so called scientific guy/girl at a university somewhere made up.
Chances are the so called scientist gets a government grant and spews out psycho babble to make it look like he found the CD/TG red herring.
How about live your life as you want and enjoy life being yourself.

[Jennifer in CO]

I am what I was...I am not what I will be...

[Jacqueline Winona]

Reine, respectfully, you omitted a very important part of that second definition: [It is important to acknowledge that while some people may fit under this definition of transgender, they may not identify as such.B][/B]
Experts in one field aren't always in agreement, or right for that matter. Berkeley is about as objective an educational organization as you'll find on pure academic issues, WPATH states that its message is to promote best practices and standards of care for Transgender health. http://www.wpath.org/site_page.cfm?p...n_webpage=3910 You may think that I have my head in the sand on this one, but I'll go with the academics on defining terms, and the healthcare professionals on medical issues.

[mechamoose]

>Jumps up and down<

<= Gender Nonconforming Transgendered Person

Guy in a dress with a girl inside. Mom with a beard.

<3

- MM

[noeleena]

Hi,

i know people and here will wonder about this and i have noted it before, ... probably throw it in too hard basket , what do you do with one who is non sexual...... no sex organs male or female .....i love it.... cause i never get an answer,

oh well since im none of the others i have to be classed as totaly weird,

And i can go into other aspects of my self that answers the ? and its still not any better.

So it comes down to legal govt dept documents and birth cert's,
And how people treat you in hostpitals medic centers and all other legal matters .

I have 5 main labels two define me as to all intents and purpose's ill let you know later.

Gee..... i can have ...FUN.... with this.

...noeleena...

[Secret Drawer]

Someone on this site once said that definitions are a tool to get us closer to an accurate description of who or what we are. It makes sense to use definitions in this manner. It does not necessarily paint anyone into a specific box, but we are members of a site called crossdressers.com and not truckdrivers.com because the definition is more applicable, even if not perfectly accurate, than truckdrivers.com. Once we enter into the blanket of crossdresser we can split more hairs to our hearts content. I call myself gender fluid on this site because it allows most readers to understand the androgynous nature of ME vs something else. Definitions are necessary evils but if used without extremes, can be useful tools in our own self explorations (as the original OP stated)

[mechamoose]

Noleena

I'm sure you know this, but your gender identity and your sexuality are not linked. They can be at opposite poles.

So you can be where you are as far as gender without any consideration for your interests in play/desire. I like *people* first. Sure, I appreciate a well formed person's body, but if they aren't interesting, my 'breeding' instincts don't come into it.

[Zylia]

Gender-nonconforming: Adjective to describe individuals whose gender identity, role, or expression differs from what is normative for their assigned sex in a given culture and historical period.

By this definition, gender-nonconforming is an awfully broad term as well. Doesn't that make every cross-dresser gender-nonconforming, or is it somehow important that your gender expression differs from what is normative at any time as opposed to only when you're 'en femme'? I always assumed that gender-nonconforming was a term for those who do not fully conform to 'normal' gender expressions, e.g. 'men in skirts'/partial cross-dressers/men who wear women's clothing but do not present as women. I always try to conform to 'normal' gender expressions, be it in male form or female form, just not always to the one that is normative for my assigned sex, so I wouldn't call myself gender-nonconforming.

[Marcelle]

Oy vey . . . soup anyone?

Hugs

Isha