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Thread: Parting is such sweet sorrow!

  1. #1
    Gold Member Sometimes Steffi's Avatar
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    Parting is such sweet sorrow!

    I was out with about 40 friends last night, and didn't get in until after midnight.

    My wife wanted to have the talk. You know. The one about how much my crossdressing upsets her.

    Arooogaah! Arooogaah! Battle Stations. battle Stations. This is not a drill. Repeat. This is not a drill.

    We drove out a little ways from the house to have a private talk without the kid listening in. Kid? She's 31, but who's counting.

    My wife came prepared with notes. Talking points, so to say.

    The first shot wasn't a shot over the bow, but a direct hit amidships. She said, "I married a man. Why didn't you tell me about the crossdressing before we got married. I'm not sure what I have would have done!" Could it get worse than this?

    My answer, for what is was worth, was, "It was the last thing I thought about before I asked you to marry me. And I thought about it quite a while. I finally determined (or maybe convinced myself) that this was a phase that I was going through, and that it would stop once I was married." This is the truth. My logic was that I did this purely for arousal (you all understand this, right), and once I was married I wouldn't need an alternate form of arousal. Wrong, wrong and wrong. But cut me some slack. It was 1977, way before the Internet, and before you could find this in the library, without getting the assistance of a librarian.

    She said, "You should have told me (what you did know) anyhow.

    Yeah, right. In retrospect, I didn't really know anything. I thought I was the only person in the world that did this. I told her that back then I didn't feel worthy to be married, never mind worthy to even be a person."

    Then I counter attacked. I said, Why didn't you tell me about that thing that happened when you were a kid that made you not like sex?" She said, 'I didn't know it at the time."

    Then she attacked with all weapons at her disposal. She "reminded" me about all those times I disappointed her. All the family dinners I missed, and many others that I can't remember. I told her, "But your not remembering all the good things I did." and I gave her a list. I asked her to list some things that I did right. After a 5 second pause, I knew I was still in trouble.

    The talk lasted a lot longer, but I knew from the beginning that I was headed for defeat. I was significantly outgunned, And I was so unworthy, so unworthy, so unworthy. The only thing to do was to put myself in a position to negotiate the terms of surrender, rather than having them imposed upon me.

    So, I agreed to the following terms:

    1. Spend less time on the Internet (talking with you guys)
    2. Spend less time in front of the other screen (the TV)
    3. Spend more quality time with her, and I don't mean shopping (together) for that LBD for me
    4. Spend a lot less time crossdressing

    She wants me home by 9 PM, but no later than 10 from my outings en femme. Since they start at 8, and it can take me well over an hour to turn back into a pumpkin and drive home, I might as well not even go. At least this still may be open to some negotiation.

    So, as Shakespeare said, "Parting is such sweet sorrow."

    I'm not gone, but I will limit my time here to mostly reading your posts and living vicariously through them.

    Wish me luck. I'm not sure what the long term survival time is.
    Last edited by Sometimes Steffi; 11-17-2014 at 10:56 PM. Reason: This is an English only forum.
    Hi, I'm Steffi and I'm a crossdresser... And I accept and celebrate both sides of me. Or, maybe I'm gender fluid.

  2. #2
    Aspiring Member LelaK's Avatar
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    I don't know what's sweet in your sorrow and I guess you won't have time to say, but sweet sorrow to me is thinking of the girl I never got to be (at least not yet).
    T-shirt says: "Hi, I Crossdress!"

  3. #3
    Aspiring Member MelanieAnne's Avatar
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    Don't know what to say. You've got 37 years invested, sounds like.

  4. #4
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    Before you go any further Steffi, consider seeking professional help with someone that is definitely knowledgeable in CDing issues! CDing is a part of you, and sadly not too many of us can completely rid ourselves of it! Does your wife expect you to just roll over and give in to all her requests? What is she going to give up for you? Some rules have to be negotiated and established before either of you can proceed to find a compatible solution!

  5. #5
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    LIMITING cross dressing time is not the worst thing. It means that she is realistic and this isn't going away. My only recommendation is to ask if you can have another talk in 6 months to review the situation.

    Best of luck

  6. #6
    Senior Member MissTee's Avatar
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    Wow Steff. I don't know what to say but good luck. I know I'm so lucky to have a supportive wife. That makes it easy to look beyond CDing as an issue. I just occasionally put on different clothes and we go about living and enjoying each other. It works out. Hugs!

  7. #7
    Member JoannaCD's Avatar
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    40 friends. Wow. Am I correct in assuming that this is a Meet Up group? If so, have you invited your wife to attend with you?

  8. #8
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    I think that out of the 4 things you have listed you should really focus on the first 3 of them then tell her in a few weeks you need to still keep doing #4.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Nikkilovesdresses's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sometimes Steffi View Post
    After a 5 second pause, I knew I was still in trouble.
    Sorry to hear about your 'man overboard' domestic drama Steffi, but that quote really made me laugh. Pity your wife can't just laugh about it too. Give it 2 months then suggest a gentle re-negotiation of terms. Sounds like what you really need is a longer period to do your thing, given the drive time, though the cost might be fewer sessions.

  10. #10
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    I don't know how often you dress Steffi, but I agree with Jennifer that learning to limit your time dressed is not the worst thing you can do. Not if you want to remain in this marriage, which I gather you do. You will be told here that it's a shame your wife isn't more supportive and would just let you do what you want, but that can also flip the other way and she could also have a more involved partner who doesn't need a second life to feel fulfilled. There are always two sides and you're just doing the best you can to make this work. Remember, it sucks for you both.

    Give it time. Stick to the boundaries. Show her she's more important. Then have another talk in a few months and maybe she will afford Steffi some more time. Good luck.

    (Staying off this forum isn't the worst thing a person could do either...note to self, lol.)

  11. #11
    Adventuress Kate Simmons's Avatar
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    CDers have to determine what is more important to them, spending time with and sharing their life with their partner or going out dressed en femme. Make a list with pros and cons for both and the truth will be evident.
    Second star to the right and straight on till morning

  12. #12
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    Steffi,
    What ticked your wife off to go at you like this, when it's been a working situation for so long ?
    Sadly like me you're now heading in the wrong direction, you've done the husband and father bit now it's time to be comfortable with your dressing not full battle stations !
    I for one would miss your input and comments on the forum, it's not doing any harm besides you may be helping others !

  13. #13
    Martini Girl Katey888's Avatar
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    Steffi - you have been the subject of a well-planned and carefully executed ambush...

    I'm guessing the following, but I can draw on very similar personal experiences to support my view:
    - You have been spending an increasing amount of time celebrating your femme side
    - You generally come back quite late from these events
    - After these events you are probably bubbling from the release that we all feel of being able to express who you feel you are for real
    - Your bubbling may go on for days afterwards - not necessarily overtly, but subliminally...

    All of these things conspire to make your wife feel insecure, jealous and possibly fearful for your gender - but I have to say, I think she has used a shameful tactic of ambushing you when you would be least prepared and most vulnerable.. I say this because I have experienced the same tactic of being right at the end of a day, sometimes after a long day's work or travelling, collapsing into bed, expecting to chill before falling asleep and WHAM!!! - the wife hits me with whatever issue she's been stewing on. (Not CDing for me..)

    And of course the CDing trump card for us of a particular generation comes with the triple whammy of guilt, stigma and the accusation of deliberate obfuscation... they're all there... and then craftily mixed in with those real life things that may or may not have been impacted by this condition, but they're just icing on this sour and stale cake, to heighten the feelings of guilt you have.

    Of course you've done things right - many, many things... And is this thing of ours still stigmatised? Of course it is and that knowledge and deep set fear of discovery and potential ridicule is used against us...

    I'm sorry Steffi - as your recollection closed on that 5 second pause, what came up on my screen, flashing in red in a vaguely oriental font were the words "FINISH HIM"... and she tried...

    You have my condolences but all is not lost... I would suggest as soon as possible you plan your own ambush, at a time when you know her defences will be reduced, and you recant your post-midnight promises with a desire to renegotiate at another time and place more neutral and with a more balanced outcome, and you cite duress, entrapment and cruel and unusual punishment as elements that invalidate your previous commitments.

    I am 100% behind you Steffi...

    And before the moralising starts - the practice of no-holds-barred marital arts (yes, marital.. ) has been around for quite some while - for BOTH genders... From Don Quixote (1604): "Love and war are all one . . . It is lawful to use sleights and stratagems to . . . attain the wished end."

    Good luck!

    Katey x
    "Put some lipstick on - Perfume your neck and slip your high heels on
    Rinse and curl your hair - Loosen your hips, and get a dress to wear"
    Stefani Germanotta

  14. #14
    Seasoned Member Rhonda Darling's Avatar
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    Steffi:

    Sorry to hear that you walked into an ambush after our fabulous event Saturday. To use an old, but apropos phrase, "What a buzz kill."

    So let me understand this. If you had stayed home, the two of you would have stayed up to midnight or beyond enjoying some sort of marital bliss together that evening, watching the same TV shows, chatting about the joy of married life, hugging and kissing, discussing current events and the latest Hollywood societal gossip, etc? Or, if you had been home, she would have gone to bed around 10:00, watched a little TV in bed by herself, and you would have spent the evening essentially alone in your own house. I know there a a lot of other possibilities, but I suspect, based on how long you've been married , that the latter is pretty close to the mark.

    You can't let someone who resents the essential "you" have so much control over you. Counseling for you both may be an option, but I suspect she will see no need for her to have counseling -- in her mind, only you are broken and in need of fixing.

    I feel bad for you, my friend. If there is any way to help, let me know through a PM.

    Keep us posted.
    All my best,
    Rhonda
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    Be all the woman that you can be!
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    . . . and now, On With The Show!

  15. #15
    Reality Check
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    We often take our crossdressing to the point where we are depriving our wives or families of time with them. I suspect this is what is happening in your case. Out til after midnight (leaving her home alons) is an example.

    I think you need to step back and take a look at the amount of time you've apparently taken from your marriage to go off and crossdress. Try to see it from her point of view. What if she was the one spending time away from you doing something you didn't like?

    I hope you can work it out but remember, a partnership often requires compromise.

  16. #16
    Silver Member stephNE's Avatar
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    My goodness Steffi, I'm so sorry, I sure hope all gets better and you can work out a good arrangement with her. Most things get better over time, so I wish you good luck. Steph.
    Stephanie

  17. #17
    Member SamanthaSometimes's Avatar
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    This reminds me so much of the subject in the thread titled "Now I Like it, Now I Don't" that is posted in the Loved Ones forum. Perhaps reading that thread may lift your spirits some and give you hope for a better long-term outcome.

  18. #18
    Member Sarina Curtis's Avatar
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    Sorry to hear that your Steffi Time is getting downsized, but like the other posts have said, at least it's not an outright ban. My SO is still on the fence and had a (possibly) similar childhood incident which is complicating matters. At the very least a dialogue has been opened and that's always a good thing. Limiting your dressing time may not be a bad thing either. Keep your chin up, mind and heart open and hopefully things will smooth out. When you want encourage someone who needs to persevere through something in Japan you say "Ganbatte". Here's a big ganbatte headed our way!

    Sarina

  19. #19
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    Hate to say it, and it's been said a million times before, but this won't end well.
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  20. #20
    Gold Member NicoleScott's Avatar
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    Steffie, I think you blundered when you counter-attacked. Your crossdressing is not about her issues.

    So, did you agree to her terms? And if so, can you really live with the terms? And can she live with them?

    There are many of us here who married believing our desire to crossdress would be replaced with desire for our new brides. We were wrong, but it was not intentional deception. Caught in the "reveal trap", as another member put it.

  21. #21
    Senior Member Suzanne F's Avatar
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    Steffi
    What do you want? If you realize you should be spending more time with your wife and want to change you should. On the other hand, if you want to be dressed and out you should do that. Spending time with the spouse because we owe it to them benefits no one in my opinion. It seems you have abdicated your life to your wife. We only get one life! We have to live it and hope we have a partner with us on our journey. Sorry to disagree with people here but we owe it to ourselves to be authentic. Adjusting our schedules to be together is great. Turning ourselves off is horrible.
    Suzanne

  22. #22
    happy to be her Sarah Doepner's Avatar
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    Steffi,

    She has valid concerns. But so do you. The suggestions that you 1) get a counselor involved and 2) return to this conversation in a few months are both good ones. At one time she was surprised by things you hadn't shared but had become accustomed to over time. That she is now surprising you with issues she has been nurturing for an extended period is almost the same kind of thing and it speaks to the lack of communication on this issue. It's not as though you are the only couple facing that problem either. I'm sure we all could benefit from a few more little talks from time to time just to avoid this kind of situation.

    I think we've seen that this reduction in CD time can likely lead to negative feelings and poor decisions down the road as you try to reverse a course that has been in place for a long time. So do consider the counselor and use that resource to help both of you establish a new balance of power based on negotiations and without the need for fire fights and ambushes.
    Sarah
    Being transgender isn't a lifestyle choice. How you deal with it is.

  23. #23
    Senior Member Eringirl's Avatar
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    Hi Steffi:

    Reeeallly sorry your are going through this. Been there, actually, am there. Yup, you were surely ambushed. But in all fairness, I am sure my SO felt ambushed when we chatted at I was prepared and she was totally caught off guard. Having said that, I struggle with how much "we" put up with. If I was to write a scenario and change the issue a bit, and have one partner dictating strict terms, so that we would look at it through a sterile lens of looking only at facts, I would guess that we would all identify it is a bullying behaviour. But we do cede our power and acquiesce.

    For me, I am in the process of trying to decide how much I am willing to "surrender" and stay, or, get on with my life as Erin....

    Wishing you well. Hope you are not a total stranger here.

    Erin
    Seize the day. Life is short, and you're dead a long time...just sayin' ...

  24. #24
    GG / SO to a CD MatildaJ.'s Avatar
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    Does your wife enjoy spending time with you? Do you enjoy spending time with her? If you're a huge disappointment to her, it's hard to understand why it's also so important for her to get every evening with you. Does she have friends she could go out with once a week or more, people she enjoys seeing? If you try to help her get to a place where she is happier with herself, then she may be more relaxed about what you do with your time.

  25. #25
    Ice queen Lorileah's Avatar
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    Thanks for reinforcing what gets said here over and over and over...

    Tell early. In this case I think right now you are fairly safe. She took the "We need to talk" route over the "Your stuff is on the lawn" path.

    As far as putting her on the spot with "What good things have I done?" Wow, desperate much? This isn't about keeping score, marriage should never be. It is a partnership where neither one says "You owe me three goods things because you messed up one bad". Also in human nature we don't remember the good things as much as we we remember the bad things. The good things are expected.

    She is at least aware that you don't do this just to anger her or to sneak around (I hope). So with time and patience and a LOT more discussion you could come to a pact.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tinkerbell-GG View Post
    ... but that can also flip the other way and she could also have a more involved partner who doesn't need a second life to feel fulfilled.
    Ouch That kind of tells me you are still not convinced this is inborn. It also says "hey, marriage should be the end all" Good fairytale but marriage, like life is a balance. When both partners understand that it works.

    I would love for marriage to be the one thing that fulfills every need in your life. Maybe then people wouldn't have to buy all those nice things...like TVs and jewelry and cars and vacations...you have your spouse...you don't need anything more. This isn't something we do just because we can. It isn't like going out on a boat or watching football. Those can be sequestered for the good of the marriage. I know when I was suppressed the marriage suffered. We snapped at each other frequently. Luckily (and I give my wife full credit for this) she saw that things went a lot smoother with a little give and take. That made me realize the same thing. Tit for tat. Partnership, understanding that what you want is not what they want and then finding a way to make that work for both parties. I know wives who are very involved in other things than the marriage. Charity, church, schools, jobs, and dare I say hobbies? It doesn't have to lead to a "my way or the highway" stand off. It can be "let's take this road and see where it leads".

    The OP is right to back off for now. But then as stated by many here, this can and should be revisited later. As a spouse I don't want to force my SO to do things for or with me. I want them to do things because THEY want to do them for or with me. Forcing time together could very well backfire because of building resentment. The wife in this case proved that resentment will bubble over and things will get nasty. What will happen in 3-6 12 months when Steffi gets the same resentment?

    Edit:and awesome post Jess thanks
    Last edited by Lorileah; 11-17-2014 at 01:18 PM.
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