Assuming a CD is Homosexual

[JanetM.]

Greetings all. I am a straight male who has over 25 years of closet crossdressing. I venture out solo in public on rare occasions and when away from my hometown. I'm happily married and have no interest in males. When dressed as Janet, the rush and excitement of being someone totally different is exciting and addictive. My question is pretty basic: Why do most people think because someone crossdresses they are automatically gay? I always believed gay guys were interested in guys and not women in short skirts or tight jeans. If anything, I would think a homosexual female would be more attracted to a male crossdresser; Does this make any sense? The idea that all crossdressers are interested in guys is not logical to me. I think if you wanted to develop a relationship with a gay guy, you would need to ditch the fem clothes, wear your muscleman shirt and Old Spice aftershave. I hope I am not offending anyone here. I have the greatest respect for all of you but I'm just curious how you think others perceive you; I know it really doesn't matter.

[Pattie]

Precisley what I think, I am not Gay or Bi. I like women, but I have no interest in getting married or going out with any body on a date. I do go out with close friends to Night Clubs, not glbt ones but very nice and couple friendly.

[Dana44]

Janet, Crosdressers don't think they are gay. Only the bigot's do say that out of ignorant and curse every one else with prejudice. But you will find that most like ninety nine percent are heterosexual. Most others that I have met perceive me as a woman or a feminine male.

[Tina_gm]

Why does this question always pop up as some surprise or non understanding of why people in general think this way. 1st, what is the way in which most people have seen a male dressed as a woman? A drag queen, and let's be honest about this, almost all draq queens are very very gay. I am not going to say ALL, but the truth is, a big majority of them. Where do you find drag shows? in gay bars mostly... Where is it that CDers go that they usually feel safest? in a gay bar. We are part of the LGBT. The 1st three letters stand for same sex attraction. In movies and television, crossdressed men have been portrayed as gay in just about every case. Look for transgender porn and.....

I could go on using examples about this. How is it not obvious that people are generally going to conclude this? all sign point to yes on this as for what people have seen or experienced.

[Meghan4now]

Well, GM is of course spot on (as usual). I like to think that it is similar to lots of people being afraid of my dogs. The latest dog, I'll cut them slack on. She's a German Shepard, and a very pleasant and playful dog. But strangers are scared. There experience says police dog, guard dog, ferocious. My old dog was a Malamute, sweetest dog alive. Blind in one eye. But when she would escape (often) and have a field day in the neighborhood, certain neighbors would be terrified by "That Wolf Dog". Other dog owning neighbors knew her and would laugh. Their schnauzer or scottie was a lot more ferocious.

[CONSUELO]

Forget about categories and stereotypes. Cross dressers and gays are spread across a wide spectrum of sexual likes and orientations. I know gays who do not find cross dressers interesting and other gays who do. I know cross dressers who are gay, others who are bi- and many who are only interested sexually in women.
People tend to pigeonhole others. It's easy to do and avoids the necessity of thinking and communicating. Does it really matter?--NO

[Alice Torn]

Often, CDs dress as attractive women, and what gets guys attention, usually? Attractive women. Janet makes an interesting point, in wondering why lesbians are not more interested in very feminine looking CDs. I would guess many lesbians are looking for the butch look lesbians, but some aren't. Some look for traditional looking feminine lesbians. Maybe when they find we are really crossdressing males, they quickly drop interest.

[Karmen]

I think a lot of people who don't know anything about crossdressing really automatically think that crossdressers are gay men who have female role in the gay relationship.

[Tracii G]

That assumption has been around forever and its not likely going to change.
Most gay guys I know are not remotely interested in a guy that CDs but do tolerate them in primarily gay bars but trust me they will talk about them and make light of them.
Just not to their faces of course.
I would love to find a guy that would be cool and not mind me being transgender. Gay guys don't understand TG ism as much as straight people so their reaction is pretty much the same.
Karmen that line of thought really bothers me when people say that. Why does one have to be the male and one the female in a relationship?
Its ignorance again because a gay man wants a man not a woman but people just don't seem to get the concept.

[reinasblack]

The stereotype that a man does manly stuff and a manly man/macho man is not into girly stuff unless he likes men. Also in the public view of things like social interaction ,men dress up as women to attract men.

Its simplifier to define a man as gay who crossdresses.
Men who like transsexuals as gay is simplier.


There is an article called
The chaser chaser
Defined as gay men who dress up as TS/CD to attract men who want a CD/TS.

[Karmen]

(edit @Tracii)

I don't know why, but probably because they look on any relationship as a copy of usual heterosexual relationship. I noticed a few times already that when people I know commented on gay couples, the one who looks more femine, is much smaller or act more softly, is automaticly labeled as a "female" in the relationship.

[LilSissyStevie]

Crossdressing has a long association with homosexual prostitution going back to ancient times. The drag queen tradition grew out of that. Most straight dudes didn't care as long as it was a reasonable facsimile of a female. Besides, you weren't homosexual unless you were the receiver. The concept of "gay" is very recent. Until the 1960's gender expression and sexual attraction were tightly bound together. Look at this from a historical viewpoint and then it makes sense.

[Teresa]

Janet,
I'm going to pick up Gendermutt's comment about media portrayal , so many depict CDers as very camp, lisping and gay. I sometimes wonder if they venture into the real World before they write the scripts !

As for the question, the assumption is if you dress like a woman you must have all the aspects of a woman and so prefer men. Some people find it hard to see beyond that. It's the point I make about tossing in more labels, we may understand them but the general public on the whole doesn't. If I tell someone I'm bi-gender and prefer women are they going to get it ? Maybe or maybe not, you'll still have to try and explain where the dressing comes into it. The same goes with dissuading people you're not gay, so what do the clothes mean, who are you trying to attract ?

[Tracii G]

The whole dressing to attract a mate thing is another misconception that people have.
My ex asked me once so when you dress as a woman who are you looking to attract a man or woman?
When I said neither she had a hard time understanding because of the old pre conceived notion that CDers are after a sexual encounter.
I explained it and she said Oh well that makes sense I just never looked at it that way.
I explained so much to her and now she totally gets it which is nice.
I would not want to be married to her again tho' thats for sure.

[Sarasometimes]

Being included with GLB doesn't help with stop the misconception and the media and meat-headed macho men help keep it going. I'm strictly heterosexual. Gender and sexual attraction are seperate and unrelated as all here should know.

[char GG]

Often, CDs dress as attractive women, and what gets guys attention, usually? Attractive women.

Simply put, I think people who don't know anything about CDing assume this. They seem to think CDers dress like women to attract a man - therefore, gay.

I'm not saying that is correct but it widely believed by non-CDers. My husband gets this question all of the time and are quite surprised to find out the he is married. They are even more surprised if I'm with him and find out that I'm his wife.

[Tiffany Jane]

We walk through our lives among others that paint pictures for us what social convention dictates us to believe is true. And when we feel differently than that in our own self on our own time it makes us second guess ourselves. By second guessing ourselves, we give power to those who we feel would be judging of the way we wish to express ourselves knowing they have already determined how we will be accepted through their discussion of things they cast their opinion on that we may take a likeness too.

It is the beginning of social anxiety that develops inside, believing we already know the outcome to our place among society. Not by having been judged ourselves, but judged through the experiences of others. It is the strength of an individual to be part of society regardless of what we know or believe the outcome will be, because we know in our soul the answers to questions others may not take the time to ask or blow off telling us we are in denial.

It is the shadow of secrecy in which others see crossdressing as that allows their mind to question what else lies in the dusk of the closet.

Having found myself in the middle of the gender spectrum, it is the same social expectations that I have heard for years that allowed me to build a masculine fortress for my feminine side. Now that I am trying to tear the wall down and let myself be seen for the third gender I am, it still is difficult to know what people expect to see when I meet them, yet in many ways, they knew the whole me and didn't have a visual reference point to associate with all of me.

[BillieAnneJean]

I go OUT enfemme in public a lot. I get asked that most every time. Frequently the person will go on to ask me questions about some relative, friend, neighbor, or co worker. I don't mind. Think of those interactions as a way to educate the public that we in the broad trans category are accessible, open, friendly, and non threatening. Who knows, you may be helping a gay or trans person you may never meet.

[docrobbysherry]

Why r we so homophobic in the States? Even here at cd.com u see many protesting that they r straight. Who r they trying to convince? This "attraction" stuff is WAY more complicated than most folks understand.

Example 1:
I KNOW I'm straight. But, does that mean I'm not ever attracted to other dressers? No. There r a few that r so fem in their demeanor and nature that even if I'm not attracted to them, I'm intrigued! And, men that come on to me in a pleasant but persistent manner have flattered and interested me. Would I ever be alone with any of them? No. Because if we got past flirting, their parts turn me off! But, I can't deny the attraction.

Example 2:
There r quite a number of members here, and T's I've met in person, that swear they r straight but r attracted to other T's. Some say it's only when they r dressed.
I've met a number of men at clubs that claim to be straight but date dressers.

The overwhelming number of T's I know online and in person say they r straight. I've met quite a few dressers who r bi but very few that say they r gay.

If I were u? I'd say, "Never say never". Because in the rite situation and with the rite person? In the end, U CAN'T HELP WHO U R ATTRACTED TO!

[Kate Simmons]

I wouldn't assume anyone is anything myself. There are always exceptions to any so called "rules" of behavior. Sometimes we are just people being people.

[ReineD]

I think it’s because people mostly live among and are accustomed to seeing heterosexual relationships. Although the gay community has made great strides in the last 20 years and gay men and women are more accepted now in many pockets of our society than they ever were, most people live and work among predominately heterosexual people. And people tend to read what they are familiar with into other people's motives.

… and so it’s a question of comparing apples to apples, the logic being that if women are attracted to men, then a man who wants to present as a woman must also be attracted to men ... especially if he dresses the way a woman would, who does want to attract a particular man.

[MichelleDevon]

I think this presumption is simply symptomatic of the general lack of knowledge about crossdressers that has been discussed elsewhere. I agree totally with the original poster that it seems utterly illogical to infer that because we dress to look feminine we must therefore be gay. If one were homosexual and seeking to attract another homosexual guy why on earth would you dress to look like a woman - this surely would be the least likely way to attract such a person.

My wife's immediate reaction when I finally told her about my crossdressing was to ask if I was gay. You might think that, after more than 25 years of marriage, she wouldn't feel the need to ask such a question but that merely serves to highlight the ignorance of people about us a group. So the onus is on us to educate "them out there". Ignorance often leads to bigotry in my experience so the solution to so much of the badmouthing and prejudice is to increase public awareness and knowledge of crossdressing.

Having said that, however, it is, of course, seldom so clear cut. I had always maintained that I was 100% heterosexual but...I find myself open to being attracted to some of my fellow crossdressers, even though I may know that they are really men. It seems that the brain is able to side-line that bit of information so that I can kiss, cuddle and "play" with another crossdresser. But that only happens to me when that CDer is in femme mode - meeting in male mode leaves me unmoved. Clearly the brain is in some way over-riding the knowledge of gender and saying this woman interests me. Whilst I have not had gay sex with a CDer we have certainly "played" very intimately!!! Does that make me gay? No, I don't think so - bi-sexual possibly.

Funny old life isn't it?

Keep enjoying it, I will

Michelle
xxx

[Krisi]

Janet, Crosdressers don't think they are gay. Only the bigot's do say that out of ignorant and curse every one else with prejudice. ...........

It's very wrong and insulting to say or think that anyone who thinks a crossdresser is gay is a bigot or ignorant. That's first question my wife (and many other crossdresser's wives) asked when I told her I was a crossdresser. My wife is far from a bigot and I think most normal folks are not bigots. They are not "ignorant" either, it's just that crossdressing is not something most folks are familiar with except for an occasional TV show or movie and it's not something they concern themselves with until they find someone close to them is one.

For the OP - We are crossdressers here so we aren't in a position to answer the question of why non crossdressers think crossdressers are gay. You would have to post your question to a group of non-crossdressers.

That said, there seem to be a surprising number of gay people on this forum and they don't mind talking about it so maybe we are gay and just don't know it.

[sometimes_miss]

Often, CDs dress as attractive women, and what gets guys attention, usually? Attractive women.

That's it in a nutshell. I'm not sure why there's any confusion about it. Women's outfits are almost always designed to accentuate the female body, and the primary reason is to attract a mate (whether anyone wants to admit that or not, it's been going on for at least 6000 years so I'll assume it's still the primary reason). The argument that many women love to give, 'I dress for myself, I want to look good, I'm not going to all this just to look good for some man!' is simply discarded by the fact that what women think makes them look good, just coincidentally is also the exact same look that attracts men. So whether it's their goal or not, that's what they're doing.
So when a guy goes through a lot of trouble to dress up like a woman, learn to talk like a woman, change his body mechanics to resemble those of a woman, it's a pretty easy conclusion that he's trying to be sexually attractive like a woman, and that means to be attractive to men. Now, what is the goal of being sexually attractive to men? Is it to feel the soft female clothing? Nope. Is it to feel the cool breeze on our legs when it's hot out? Nope. Get back to the simplest reason: it's to be sexually attractive to men. That's how the rest of the world reasons it out. They see us doing all the things that someone would do in order to be sexually attractive to men. So that's why they think that way.
Next, you have the big problem of explaining to those folks 'Then why do you crossdress, if you're not trying to attract men?'. And most crossdressers cannot come up with a decent reason that outsiders can understand. The explanations of how much more comfortable womens' clothing is simply doesn't make sense to ANYONE except another crossdresser; why? Because women's clothing is generally NOT more physically comfortable. Women who want to be comfortable do not hang around in corsets, bras, garter belts and stockings, wearing high heels. They don't wear all kinds of jewelry, spend an hour on their hair and make up to sit on their couch alone watching 'Real wives of Hooterville'.

WE DO. So it makes no sense at all to the outside world. They will not comprehend that WE feel more comfortable wearing all that stuff because we have a psychological need to do it, and we feel psychologically comfortable when dressed as women. Why not? Because of the old homophobia that's drilled into our heads from the moment we're self aware as children. For a boy, the worst possible thing is to be girly in any way. It's the biggest insult you can call a male, to infer that he's feminine.

Wondering why lesbians are not more interested in very feminine looking CDs.

Again, it simple if you look at it from a GENUINE woman's point of view (and that may include TS women as well). The sexes look for different things when looking for a mate. MEN are primarily concerned with appearance. WOMEN are not, they have a different priority list of what's important in a mate. The confusion only goes to show how so many men still 'don't get it', or maybe hear it, read it, but simply refuse to believe it. After all, if he's primarily interested in looks, that must mean everyone is, right? Again, NOPE.

Why r we so homophobic in the States?

Not just the states. While not always as militant 'anti-gay' as much of the red neck contingent, the homophobia stems from how we evolved. Tribes depended upon it's males to behave like males, and accept their responsibility on the battlefield as willing to defend themselves and their mates to the death. A breach in the line of battle could result in destruction of his tribe. So, remembering that the female sexual position is submissive, it is assumed that someone resembling a female in behavior or looks, would want to be submissive as well. Being submissive is not congruent with being a warrior.
Also, a male who is homosexual might be seen as a danger to the other soldiers, as if he forms a romantic relationship with another soldier, he might be more inclined to leave his post to go defend THAT soldier rather than stand his position and maintain the defensive line, again making his tribe more prone to being defeated by an enemy.

you see many protesting that they r straight. Who r they trying to convince?

They're trying to convince both themselves and others, because deep down inside, they cannot accept the possibility that they actually ARE attracted to men. You see this over and over; guys here writing about how they find men attractive 'but only when I'm dressed as a female'. They create an entire other personality in order to distance themselves from any homosexual feelings or behavior, even to the point of writing, 'Oh, that's not the 'real' me, that's [fill in the blank with their chosen female name]'.

This "attraction" stuff is WAY more complicated than most folks understand

Not really. We only make it seem complicated.

I KNOW I'm straight.

Yeah, that's what we all say. Here's Ron White's perspective on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTGXSdg0hEY

I agree totally with the original poster that it seems utterly illogical to infer that because we dress to look feminine we must therefore be gay.

I disagree. I see it a perfectly logical from a laymans' point of view.
then

I had always maintained that I was 100% heterosexual but...I find myself open to being attracted to some of my fellow crossdressers, even though I may know that they are really men.

And there's the perfect example of denial right there. Then they come up with all the excuses in order to distance themselves from the fact that they are attracted sexually to men, here:

It seems that the brain is able to side-line that bit of information so that I can kiss, cuddle and "play" with another crossdresser. But that only happens to me when that CDer is in femme mode - meeting in male mode leaves me unmoved. Clearly the brain is in some way over-riding the knowledge of gender and saying this woman interests me. Whilst I have not had gay sex with a CDer we have certainly "played" very intimately!!! Does that make me gay? No, I don't think so - bi-sexual possibly.

Let's face it; if you are turned on by the idea of having sex with a male, those are homosexual feelings. We can make all the excuses we want. It's fooling NO ONE other than ourselves.

We are crossdressers here so we aren't in a position to answer the question of why non crossdressers think crossdressers are gay.

I don't know, I don't think being a crossdresser stops anyone from being smart as well. I'm sure there are plenty of geniuses that are crossdressers. The old saying that you can't understand something if you are 'too close to the problem' is baloney. A smart person knows when there's something that might interfere with their train of thought, and does their best to compensate for it.

That said, there seem to be a surprising number of gay people on this forum and they don't mind talking about it so maybe we are gay and just don't know it.

Some are, some are not. A big problem we have is that so many are so terrified of finding out that they really do have homosexual feelings, that they won't even try to find out why they feel that way. They just want to chalk it up to 'I was born that way' and leave it at that, happily wanting to have sex with men but thinking that by creating a female person to apply those feelings to, relieves them of any connection to those horrible, terrible homosexual feelings.

We have to get over it. There's nothing wrong with being gay. Or bi. or liking whatever kink you enjoy. It's not our fault, we were brought up that way. But we're now adults, and can accept reality, even if those we know and love, aren't yet able to. So sometimes we have to stay in the closet, in order to 'keep the peace' with those OTHER homophobic folks.

[Lorileah]

once again semantics and definitions

ig·no·rant
ˈiɡnərənt/
adjective
adjective: ignorant

lacking knowledge or awareness

Don't confuse ignorance with stupidity. Ignorant people can learn. You are ignorant if you don't understand something.