What I feel is we`re the `ugly` GF that no group seems to want or embrace? In a nutshell?
What I feel is we`re the `ugly` GF that no group seems to want or embrace? In a nutshell?
Originally Posted by Krisi
and visa versa....
....Mykell
i dressed like a girl and i liked it!crossdressing...theirs an app for that
In my opinion that is a gross misrepresentation. There are a few people who having started by cross-dressing will later go on to address their Gender Dysphoria. The so-called joke is a way of mocking those members.
However, when you interact with any group of people it is better to try to understand how they use certain phrases than to expect the majority to accept your own (entirely different) definition. That is true whether you are talking to plumbers and want to redefine the tools of their trade, or to IT staff, or to cross-dressers.
There are published definitions of how certain words are used in the context of these forums, whilst you are free to hold an alternate position on the use of those words in your private life, there is nothing to be gained by insisting that your alternate definition should be accepted by the whole group. WOuld you castigate the authors of a dictionary just because you didn't want to accept their definition?
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Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist
Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity
I could find no definitions as used by the Forums, so I looked up the ultimate source of definitions - the Oxford English Dictionary - the standard dictionary of the English language. It defines transgender as "Denoting or relating to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender does not correspond with their birth sex". As my personal identity at no point departs from my birth sex I am not transgender. If the OED says that, any other definition is in Humpty Dumpty territory where you can invent your own definitions - that does not mean they apply to other people.
My complaint here is that even if other people want to use different definitions, I object to them being imposed on me. Dressing as a beetle does not make you a beetle. Women who find their partners are cross-dressing are often traumatised. From her point of view there is a yawning gulf between thinking her husband likes to wear a dress and thinking her husband wants to be a woman. He claims he doesn't want to be a woman - he is just a crossdresser. So she searches on line for crossdressing and finds this forum. I mean that's what they're called - they must know what they are talking about. This forum insists that crossdressers are all transgender so she looks that up and sees that it means he has a female gender identity so he must be lying. Thanks for that. She looks a bit more at the site and finds that this Forum, called (remember) crossdressers.com, includes people taking hormones or have even completed their transition as well as people who dress as women and then want to attract men ... but hardly any mention of men who are 'just' crossdressing (apart from denial of their existence) on a site called what he says he is. Now she is really scared.
We are a cross-dressing Forum which appears to be intolerant of cross-dressing for its own sake as opposed to gender identity. We do not exist. I cross clothing conventions but my identity does not cross anything gender-related so my dressing is not cross (trans) gender. I say again that clothes do not have gender, people do. Cross-dressing does NOT equate to cross-gender. Those who insist it does do not just have a different opinion - in linguistic terms they are wrong, which is not the same as having a different opinion. I am mystified why there is such insistence on making crossdressers transgender - why does this matter to you to the extent you want to overrule those affected by this?
The threads on this topic make it clear I am not alone. This Forum is not called crossgender it is called crossdressing - how bizarre that it absolutely insists on confusing the two. There is no place here for those of us who are just into the crossdressing despite the site's title. The transitioning TG members tell us they are not crossdressing - they are dressing appropriately. So they are not crossdressing yet they are on a crossdressing forum - where they are not only tolerated but welcomed whereas we who are actually 'just' crossdressing are not even recognised or tolerated as a valid category - you insist we are something else entirely! The word Transvestite is linguistically more correct than Transgender in describing cross-dressers but most of us hate it - I know I do. I do not hate the word transgender I just do not want it applied to me for the simple reason that it doesn't.
I am not 'out'. Currently if my crossdressing is revealed people will assume I want to be a woman. Nothing wrong with wanting to be a woman but I don't. I think the impact on my friends and colleagues (and thus on me) would be considerably reduced if there was more (any?) recognition of the existence of men who 'just' like dressing as women for its own sake rather than because of gender issues. Currently the existence of such a category is invisible so for most it does not exist. With such invisibility it is hardly surprising that society does not distinguish between crossdressing and crossgender, but a web site CALLED crossdressers.com - come on! We expect better.
Last edited by susan54; 11-04-2017 at 07:46 AM.
Susan, Sadly, your post sums it up pretty well.
Krisi
Susan -- You are totally entitled to define yourself. Just as everyone here is. If anyone posts a message that explicitly says you're wrong in your self-assessment, report the post and the moderators will handle it. If you object to the fact that they post philosophical thoughts that don't align to your views, go read another thread or bring some evidence and engage in discussion. But you don't get to impose your definition on anyone else either, and that's what it really sounds like you're doing when you rail on about the makeup of the crossdresser's forum not conforming to your definition of crossdressing. Reasonable people can disagree. Be one of them.
I am not a woman; I don't want to be a woman; I don't want to be mistaken for a woman.
I am not a man; I don't want to be a man; I don't want to be mistaken for a man.
I am a transgender person. And I'm still figuring out what that means.
i did a web search for "transgender" and wiki topped the list....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender
i preformed a google search for "phobia".... " wiki" was third on the list....
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phobia
ive always felt comfortable here however ive claimed to identify here for the most part,
when folks are adamant to profess theyre sexuality and gender when the topic comes up it confuses me, they dont like labels but are now stipulating to be part of a sub-category of a label, "hetero crossdresser" "bi curious when dressed crossdresser" "manly man crossdressers" ect..
some will covet for the day they can leave the confines of the "closet", others boast of how they "pass" in the wild, some assure us we can all venture into the land of the "Normals" as long as we fit theyre standards, but at the end of the day we all have a commonality, we deviate from what society in general considers "Normal" gender expression....
for me it feels nice to belong to a group, a family so to say....their will always be divisiveness, turmoil, pettiness in families....but at the end of the day family comes first, family has your back.....why fight our battles alone when we are part of a community, an LGB"T" community and the benefits it will afford us.
my opinion....yours may differ.....something to think about over coffee.....
and when our GFs, SOs, Friends and family google transgender they will see we are part of a broad group....a community....
here is what i found when i web searched "crossdresser"
https://www.google.com/search?q=crossdresser&source=lnms&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEw jX84SqhKXXAhVLMSYKHRcOC4QQ_AUICSgA&biw=1280&bih=63 9&dpr=1
click on the instagram listing....
Last edited by mykell; 11-04-2017 at 08:38 AM. Reason: pictures tell a thousand words
....Mykell
i dressed like a girl and i liked it!
Mykell -- I'm not clear on why you have the search for "phobia." Could you explain the point you're trying to make? I can figure out why you chose "transgender" (dueling definitions.) And I presume the web search for "crossdresser" was to illustrate the breadth of the community.
I am not a woman; I don't want to be a woman; I don't want to be mistaken for a woman.
I am not a man; I don't want to be a man; I don't want to be mistaken for a man.
I am a transgender person. And I'm still figuring out what that means.
You don't need to look very far, they are a sticky note in the Introductions and Reintroductions section.
They are community definitions. Your anger appears to be directed at everyone who agrees to use those definitions to interact with people in this community.
Incidentally, have you ever considered how language evolves? This happens by people using terms in a specific manner whether or not the dictionary defines them in another context.
Did you do a search on crossdressers.com? If so you would have found this thread: https://www.crossdressers.com/forums...-Abbreviations
Last edited by Rianna Humble; 11-04-2017 at 10:02 AM.
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This above all: To thine own self be true, And it must follow, as the night the day, Thou canst not then be false to any
Galileo said "You cannot teach a man anything" and they accuse ME of being sexist
Never ascribe to malice that which can be easily explained by sheer stupidity
It took longer than I thought, but we have arrived at the point in every thread about labels where we start bickering over what each one means. Before I leave in fatigued dismay (again) I'll lob my two cents into the fray...
Susan, the term "transgender" has a conventional meaning in the community. It is not the one the OED seems to provide. It is a mistake to be so pedantic, leaning on one, rather out of step authority. The fact of the matter is that, according to American Psychiatric Association, crossdressing is a form of "gender expression" placing it under the umbrella provided by even the narrow definition you cited.
My point is (again) that the complaint the OP came here with, and the contention that has arisen since then (predictably, in the latter case) stems from a self-centered view of others; "If you don't fit my definition of <insert label here> your're <insert some other label here>. All too often, that view is expressed with derogatory tone or context. We should stop doing that.
Last edited by Aunt Kelly; 11-05-2017 at 01:51 AM.
Social phobia, when the situation is feared as the person is worried about others judging them. so it seemed some are concerned with guilt by association....i feel no matter how you define your "self" we are stronger if we show solidarity in numbers....i have learned to favor inclusion for this reason, i dont feel superior or judge anyone as being less significant if they dont define the way i may but feel we have a better voice (safety) if we unite with each other...
i have seen that link Rianna, but today most will look up info on the interweb and i wanted to point out that standards of the past are becoming less relevant, does not make it wrong....we just have many more resources for friends and family and loved ones to go to which is what seemed to drive some folks objections to standing under the umbrella with us. so unfortunately crossdressers.com will not be theyre first choice....I could find no definitions as used by the Forums, so I looked up the ultimate source of definitions - the Oxford English Dictionary - the standard dictionary of the English language.
hope i cleared up what i failed to convey previously....just wanted to point out how creepy and devious some info on the web portrays us....
....Mykell
i dressed like a girl and i liked it!
Susan,
Why don't you look at it as the name above the shop says ," Crossdressers.com " but when you enter the shop it has many more departments to cater for different customers needs, you only need to visit the counter that sells your goods , you have that choice, other customers or SAs (Mods ) may suggest other departments but it they don't fit your needs you can walk away .
The important point is you live in a free country with free speech, you can visit the forum freely to give and take help and information. Some countries don't allow their population the same free choices
The point about wives/partners coming here are offered their own help section where they can clear up points about their CDing partners , no matter where they are in the CDing/TG spectrum. We are all very lucky having this freedom and a fantastic forum to help us along the road .
Can one honestly find what a CD'er can go through as trivial?
Yes, I suppose experiencing a pervasive sense of embarrassment/shame/guilt, even to the point of hating one's self, is "trivial."
I suppose being a prisoner in one's own home, locked away in a room behind drawn curtains, because one's wife doesn't like it/know about it, is "trivial."
I suppose spending most of one's days SO-less & alone, because the GG's one tries to date run fast in the other direction once they learn one is a CD'er, is "trivial."
I suppose being belittled, harassed, threatened, beat up & even ostracized, is "trivial."
I suppose having one's wife filing for divorce, and going through with it, partly or solely because of one's CD'ing, is "trivial."
And I suppose one implying seriously contemplating suicide, is "trivial."
Because I have seen all of that here on this forum, and more, in my relatively short time here, as it pertains to CD'ers.
And that kind of stuff is a huge deal, at least in my book.
One also needs to keep in mind that if any given CD'er "ramps up" their activity in terms of frequency & degree & openness -- you know, perhaps like a TS would need to do?--, I can guarantee that the CD'er would see a whole lot more of above.
Of course, I won't mention the fact that a number of TS's do actually experience a pretty positive outcome, without losing many, if any, friends, family members, jobs & SO's.
Anyway, I believe the OP has a valid right in feeling angry, frustrated, misunderstood, etc.
Nicole, you have to understand that the documentaries you're watching are conveying opinions by only a few people. The TS on these shows are venting how they feel without trying to understand how CDs feel.
I've hung out with mixed groups on many occasions face to face with TS, CDs and drag queens and there isn't any of this bickering going on in the real world.
Maybe we're all much more civil in the real world of support groups and TG get togethers. Or maybe your experiences have been much different than mine.
You say you've never met other TG folks and it sounds like there may be more paranoia in Ireland than there is in my area, or there's a lack of someone taking the initiative to get TG groups together.
You would be totally welcome in the circles that I've been in for the last 5 years. The only exception would be some gays that look down on all TG people.
"You're the only one to see the changes you take yourself through", Stevie Wonder
It COULD be worse Susan. U could be a "fetish" CD like me. And, have to deal with THIS!
U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.
Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!
I totally feel what you are saying. I do identify as transgender because I love to present as female, but could best be described as a crossdresser. Although I struggle with the terms because I don’t FEEL exactly as the terms are defined. Not sure if that makes sense, but yes, I too don’t feel like I fit into any of the nice boxes.
Susan, from where I sit there are more people like you on this site then like me. The way I see it you and Sherry are more alike than sherry and me. Basically straight men wearing women's clothes, at least in this section. You don't like a label, fine I get that. To think that you are a minority on this site I don't get. The way you feel is how you feel. People, IMO, tend to see things from where they are and not from the other persons perspective. As I have stated before I like the term transgender as I am out living openly. I find I'm treated better, people don't need to know if I have or am planning to have any surgeries. All I want is people to accept me for me. For me the term gives me cover, and permission to dress how I want.
I find myself increasingly troubled by this 'discussion' which is more of an attempt to overrule me than a discussion. The name above the shop that has many departments - fair enough - it is just that there is no department for 'just' crossdressers - the shop refuses to acknowledge our existence outside the term 'transgender'.
Language evolution would be a valid argument if it applied. We have a language where 'hot' and 'cool' have developed meanings that have much in common, neither of them related to temperature. But here we have the equivalent of people using the term 'hot' to describe what is merely lukewarm. That is not language development - it is misrepresentation.
If a restaurant advertised hot food and instead served lukewarm food, it could not use language development or its own personal definitions as a defence. What it says sin the dictionary, especially the OED, has huge relevance in how language is used. No matter how YOU define them, crossdressing and transgender have different meanings.
Why we crossdressers are being conscripted by the transgenders so assertively is a mystery to me. Why do they need us to validate themselves? And why does the site allow it? Just as it is bizarre and inaccurate to assert that "all crossdressers are gay" it is to assert that "all crossdressers are transgender". Nothing wrong with any of these categories, but why insist on applying them against people's will? They are not just labels. There is a fundamental psychological difference between a man in a dress who sees himself as a man and one who sees himself (herself) as a woman, and that difference is critical to many partners.
Partners who have just encountered their man in a dress will be distressed. They will be looking for information and that information needs to be right. A website like this has a responsibility to the men and women affected by this issue to help clarify it, not muddy the waters. In such situations, the partner will probably already be suspected of telling lies. The definitions applied here will help confirm the assertions that they are 'just dressing up' to be lies - when they are not. Lives can be affected, possibly ruined by this.
I know I have had support from other members, but only a few, and they are outnumbered by those who insist I am wrong. So perhaps there are just a few of us. I have thought of resigning from the site over what I perceive to be misrepresentation of some crossdressers as transgender. Instead of doing so I am trying to do something about it so that there is actually somewhere people like me will be able to go for advice. I may no longer need such advice but others do. I know of nowhere else they can go. Currently they are getting slanted advice (accompanied by considerable insistence) and I can't even understand why.
I think i saw the documentary that nicole was referring to. They were separating transgender as if it were something that shouldn't be looked down on and superior from Crossdressing which is for fetish drag queens. It embraces the stereotype that there is something wrong with crossdressing.
It fails to understand the spectrum of CDing.
There are those on the verge of transition, There are those in the middle, There are those who just wear lingerie, There are those who often fully dress up, There are those (me) who only do that about once every 2 months just because it takes up a lot of time.
Call me just a Crossdresser. Just don't mess with my dresses.
Angie
I am a crossdresser. I crossdress. I wear the clothes of the opposite gender. When I do this I remain me. As me, I don't change personality, I don't change my behaviour. I have no wish or desire ro go any further. I am happy as I am. However I do what I do because it statisfies the girly urges that are within me. I understand where this urge comes from and I understand that for me, the female aspect in all of this is very important to me. It therefore also seems logical to me that what I do goes across the genders. Another word for cross is trans. I am happy to accept this. This works for me. I can also see though that for some people they may feel in thinking this way, that they are being linked in with a different group of people for whom the cause and effect, and the desired outcome, might be wholly different. I can see why this could make some people uncomfortable. Such discomfort is real and should be respected. At the end of the day, the one thing that most of us, on this site have in common is that we all wear women's clothing and, for the most part we enjoy it. The reson we do it, the how we look when we do it, the names we call oursleves, the sub group that we may, or may not, fit into is all irrelevant to the group and personal to the individual. What we should do is celebrate that one thing we have in common, women's clothes.
Not really. Insisting that one narrow "definition", taken from a single static and very generalized reference, is the only accurate one is the misrepresentation. Again... crossdressing is, by anyone's definition, an expression of gender. Which means it fits under even the narrow definition that you have chosen to cite for the term "transgender". The APA recognizes that, which is why they use the term the way they do. By your own admission, the community (by and large) recognizes the same thing, which is why they use the term the way they do. We are not attacking those who, like you, are misapplying the term "transgender". We are trying to point out that this intransigent insistence on misapplying the term is needlessly confusing and divisive, at times when that is that last thing someone needs to hear in a discussion in response to the question "What am I?" In virtually any case, it is accurate to say...
"You are transgender. There are many like you here under that umbrella term, but no one just like you. There are many terms applied to groups of us who share certain traits (crossdresser, gender-fluid, transsexual, etc.), but because we are all different, this is where those labels start to break down. So pick one of those more specific labels if you like, or don't. The only thing you have to call yourself is transgender, because that is what we... all of us, are."
Last edited by Aunt Kelly; 11-05-2017 at 11:17 AM.
People will have different ways of labeling others some of which are vile and rude but generally it does not happen here as anyone doing so would be removed.
The site has evolved over years with non binary being our latest addition. We are here to help everyone. GG women joining here always get told about the FAB section so they know they are not alone.We are a cross-dressing Forum which appears to be intolerant of cross-dressing for its own sake as opposed to gender identity. We do not exist. I cross clothing conventions but my identity does not cross anything gender-related so my dressing is not cross (trans) gender. I say again that clothes do not have gender, people do. Cross-dressing does NOT equate to cross-gender. Those who insist it does do not just have a different opinion - in linguistic terms they are wrong, which is not the same as having a different opinion. I am mystified why there is such insistence on making crossdressers transgender - why does this matter to you to the extent you want to overrule those affected by this?
The threads on this topic make it clear I am not alone. This Forum is not called crossgender it is called crossdressing - how bizarre that it absolutely insists on confusing the two. There is no place here for those of us who are just into the crossdressing despite the site's title. The transitioning TG members tell us they are not crossdressing - they are dressing appropriately. So they are not crossdressing yet they are on a crossdressing forum - where they are not only tolerated but welcomed whereas we who are actually 'just' crossdressing are not even recognised or tolerated as a valid category - you insist we are something else entirely! The word Transvestite is linguistically more correct than Transgender in describing cross-dressers but most of us hate it - I know I do. I do not hate the word transgender I just do not want it applied to me for the simple reason that it doesn't.
I am not 'out'. Currently if my crossdressing is revealed people will assume I want to be a woman. Nothing wrong with wanting to be a woman but I don't. I think the impact on my friends and colleagues (and thus on me) would be considerably reduced if there was more (any?) recognition of the existence of men who 'just' like dressing as women for its own sake rather than because of gender issues. Currently the existence of such a category is invisible so for most it does not exist. With such invisibility it is hardly surprising that society does not distinguish between crossdressing and crossgender, but a web site CALLED crossdressers.com - come on! We expect better.
I am old enough to remember when supermarkets only sold groceries. Now they sell almost anything.
We are here to support everyone who has any contact with crossdressing in whatever form that may take be if family member best friend neighbour, teacher etc.
The trouble with assumptions is that they are not always right.
The general public has more trouble with us because we are so diverse as a community. This makes it hard for them to understand us.
If you see me walking down a street and then have to try and label me it cant be easy, am I CD/TS /GQ /DQ.
All we can do is our best but no one can be right 100% of the time.
Wow I'm truly sorry you feel that way. Nichole started this post talking about not belonging, fitting in, loneliness.
So you are saying I need a membership card that says I'm a crossdresser to be here. And beyond that my existence threatens you. Really . Did I read this right or I'm I wrong?
Nicole, I haven't read the rest of comments except the first one that offers you a hug, and offer you one too and my friendship through email chat or whatever form you would want.
But let me write something here:
I was a Christian pastor as well my wife. I'm not going g to discuss a out teology here but I'm not longer a pastor neither a Christian.
I had so many wonderful and supernatural experiences with who I used to call God and my final definition of it (who cares if is she or he or whatever limited antropomorfos way we could see) is love.
There's no 2 leaves of a tree exactly the same as well snow flakes or whatever we see in nature. So diversity is the rule. Neither twins are exactly the same.
So my point is why to look belonging to a group or a label?
I love that LGBT movement has a flag that is a rainbow, the grades of colors on a rainbow are unlimited the same as among us as Crossdressers can find similarities but no one's experience is the same as other.
So we human beings look for labels, pairs, group as we are to belong for a lack of identity and in our case that's critically hard.
Who or what we are? Man? Weird man? Woman in a man's body? Just someone to enjoy dressing as women? Who cares? You are you, even you don't need a name to call yourself because you are you.
Stop your search and just be you without shame, fears, and be proud on who you are,
There's nothing wrong you can do if you love, there's nothing to fear if you love and finally you're so loved, believe it and live for it.
You don't need to see or even feel the Air you breath, you just breath it, so the same with love and freedom, just enjoy it and live everyday to full..
Don't let the angry control your being but let love does it.
Love, kisses and hugs for you
HRT 04302018/ Full time 03/2019
Orchiectomy 06/03/2020/ gender, name legal changed 10/26/2020
Electrolysis face 08/2019, genitals for GCS 06/2021
Breast augmentation surgery 01/31/2022
GCS 07/11/2022 END TRANSITION
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