Perhaps we're going about this in the wrong way. Re: Finding CD friendly women.

[sometimes_miss]

Often, we get into the discussions about where we can find CD / TG friendly women, then the insistence that we all go out en femme in an effort to try to make it seem more normal. Of course, then there is the 'be honest up front' concept, telling our prospective date that we're crossdressers before we ever start dating them, which of course will fail us >99% of the time.
So.....lets attack this problem with the result in mind: Finding and starting a relationship with a woman who is able to accept, if not understand, why we do this.
Those of you who have told us that you're wives or girlfriends are really on board with your crossdressing, lets at least ask them what we should do, where we should go, what we HAVE to do to make this curse understood and bearable for more women to accept us. After all, you know that she's on board with it, herself. What does she think makes her different from all the women who find us such a turn off, or even repulsive? And then how do we inspire that quality in other women? We know that women are generally more nurturing than we are, basically a natural tendency to help others rather than take advantage of them. So perhaps those lucky few, will be willing to enlist your mates, to help us. After all, there are millions of us out here; many are gainfully employed, honest, good men. In all other ways, a 'great catch', as I always hear the girls refer to men who they've caught. So there must be some way to do this. Because I have no other ideas, after pondering this for the past 40 years. With all the single women out there, literally sitting at home eating a pint of ice cream while watching some sad romance, wouldn't at least dating a nice guy who sometimes crossdresses, be better instead of waiting around for Mr alpha male to arrive? After all, no true alpha male would ever let a current boyfriend get in the way if he really wanted a woman, so she has nothing to lose.

Posting personal ads that include being a crossdresser has elicited only half a dozen responses in 20 years now. So the up front and honest thing alone, isn't working.
What can we do to make ourselves more acceptable? (other than winning the lottery, of course, as that's not really a plan).

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Lexi , I am going to buy a Mega Million lottery ticket and see how it goes. >orchid ..88..

[deebra]

Blue Orchid,

If you win the $250 mil. there will be no shortage of young ladies that all of a sudden love crossdressers, let me correct that, just one crossdresser...YOU!!!

[Kelly DeWinter]

It's all in the details, advertising a personal ad that includes "Potential multi-million dollar dollar ticket holder, Looking for someone who likes to shop for house in the Hampton's, Test drive expensive cars and expand my Donna Karen wardrobe a must"

[LaurenS]

That’s funny!!! Can I use it?!?!

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SUPERB idea!

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Those points, especially the self-honesty, are important. It was a LONG time before I was not guilty/ashamed, so I couldn’t understand the issues myself. Certainly a risk for any partner interested in having a drama-free, foundationally strong relationship. I suspect that to be the norm, rather than the exception, unfortunately.

I mean can one imagine how hard it would be to find a hetero crossdresser that understands precisely where they are on the tg spectrum, is comfortable and honest about that, AND has no other mental or emotional issues?!? Oh, and is otherwise an upstanding citizen?

Say it with me now: Unicorn

I don’t think that cders are any more likely to have mental issues, so don’t make that assumption to my hypothesis. I’m just saying that it is probably hard for a woman to find a non-cder without some sort of issue - manageable or not - then adding cding to it just seems like a checklist for a very rare individual.

Speaking for myself, it all seems so clear now. Decided that a relationship is not worth the risk for me (on the “revealing part) and am happy having girl friends, not girlfriends, if you know what I mean.

Great points, Dutches.

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GREAT points, Katrina.

This post has hit the nail on the head. (Or at least it did for me, as I don’t comment much much, but especially this much on a single post.)

The OP points about finding out precisely the feelings of ggs is spot on. CDing is by its very nature a selfish (for lack of a better word - or thesaurus) activity.

Dutchess nails it to.

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Aarrgghh.

the forum somehow assumed that my 3 separate response should be combined together.

anyways, this is a great topic and hope other ggs chime in.

[Karen's Secret]

I think the simple reality is that virtually all women would not choose a partner who crossdresses. I think even most women who are in an accepting relationship with a crossdresser would, if being honest, still prefer their partner not be a crossdresser.

[docrobbysherry]

If u think dressing is a choice, THEN u can be confounded by women not being attracted to trans!

Maybe u can try quitting to be with a woman? But, u either can't for long or u think about dressing constantly when u stop!
Why would u think women r any different? They r attracted to who they r attracted to, period! It's NOT a choice.

Straight women r attracted to men. Not men in dresses!

Maybe u can find a gay woman who is attracted to u dressed? But then what? U don't have the rite parts!

Don't over think it. Lots of women r cool with trans. But, NOT to date! If u find a woman who is attracted to u dressed? You've found a unicorn!

[phili]

IMO when looking for friends and partners we are scanning the people we see, wherever we are, and putting together a sense of how it might all work from all the clues visible. We know that generally people are also not showing anything they are not proud of,but those things are there to be ferreted out in lunch, dating, etc.

Now discovering that even telling my wife to be was not enough to really help her understand what it meant to her, I'm strongly in support of just crossdressing in public or talking about it like any other hobby that is important to you, so that it is clearly part of the package. Then women who are not sure will have time to judge how big a deal it really is to them.

I believe, just like any of us would prioritize issues with mates, that a woman looking for a mate will still pick us if all our personal characteristics are sufficiently attractive to her and she is not tied to convention so much that she can picture herself saying 'my SO is the most wonderful person, and one of the interesting/quirky/unresolved things about him is that he is a cd.'

That was what happened with my girlfriends in hs and college. Just didn't work with my wife because she picked me first without knowing, and at that point I just told her and didn't show her, and was overconfident that it was going to be fine.

[Rachael Leigh]

Great topic because now that I’m single for the first time in 35 years I don’t want to be dishonest so I know it’s going to
be mostly impossible to find anyone now. But I’m on a dating site and in my profile I’m totally hones about my gender
variance and as you say, no intrest at all. I feel this is now my fate. No hope to have a relationship.

[Rayleen]

I rather stay single like Rachael , kind of enjoying this for the last while.

[Asew]

My wife and I made Tinder accounts just to see what the big deal was (we have since deleted the app). At first I had male pics, got a few matches. Then I decided to switch my pictures to those of me dressed and lost all my matches and never got another match. The dating pool seems rough for an honest up-front CDer.

[t-girlxsophie]

I guess I'm in the minority that got lucky meeting a supportive and understanding partner.Met my wife on a chat site,It wasnt really a hook up site we just got chatting and my user name made it clear what I was.Others took great pleasure in telling us it wouldn't work yet 12 years later were still together

I honestly don't know the secret to finding an understanding partner,If I did I would be a millionaire and spreading the word

Sophie

[Dutchess]

For one I have always liked VERY androgynous guys that wear slight make up all the time and probably pants their nails . You know , Marc Bolan , David B , Even Rick Savage of Def Lep wears a lot of pink things in fancy fabric .
Don't like Alphas at all , which probably sent me down this road in the first place .
What I would need to know up FRONT is
The truth
How deep is this/ how much is involved ( for my own knowledge)
Do you actually think you are a woman ( I am straight so that would not work . I can't deal with transition so its better to know that NOW )
Or do you like women fine and this is something you do that you just like, feel better in, find is pretty etc .

I have hoe'd very hard roads with 2 CD'ers and I would have to know these things straight up . They were not honest with THEMSELVES. I am not a mind reader . of course the one you all know best did not tell me for 3 years after we were married until I caught him , fancied himself as a 20 yr old Brazilian trans porn star = Nightmare for Dutchess.

The other I adored but he wanted to be a woman even though he SO was not . It was the fakest thing I have ever seen - he talked like a baby doll when en femme . He'd been brutally manhandled my his overbearing MAN of a mom and a neighbor man that attacked him repeatedly in his teens and his was a very confused person - without a job . He died indirectly due to a heart attack from self administered hormones with no Dr supervision and yes there are many articles about that . Everywhere .

Just be honest about everything , please, and yes you will get primarily answers from men who want to take a walk on the wild side . It drove my fetish cd'er crazy

[Jean. Ann]

Some great posts here :
I think in a way the same rules apply
as any relationship .
I think sometimes we are not giving women credit for
Their ability to understand and accept .
It is all to easy to blame lack of success on CDing
The women are out there , if you want a relationship
You have to get out there . Go to that bar Social Group etc
Dressed . Meet the GG there become friends with couples
Many GG love to fix their girlfriends
up with nice men
When people know you are a nice guy
who likes and somewhat understands
women it will become much easier

Jean. Ann

[Cassandra Lynn]

Yep, what Katrina, Dutchess and Aunt Kelly said.

I went the route of dating sites and the odds are just not good, which makes sense when you think about Kelly's point.
In other words, unless their looking for one of us (and it's just not possible to fully explain what that is in a dating site profile), then they'll see the profile, say no thanx and move on.
Same for potential relationships not began from dating sites; my opinion on the right time to spill the beans is before any type of commitment that includes engagement, marriage or even living together.

I made that promise to myself long ago and told my last LTR partner after we had established that we we're a couple, she accepted it and for the most part handled it well enough, but after 2 years of living together my other issues destroyed the union.

Since I migrated into this state of being known as non-binary and present as a mix of genders, advertising and searching online became redundant and unnecessary. I get the occasional fully accepting interest from random women, but it's just that, they aren't looking to date.
What's also relevant and nice about my home on the gender spectrum, is that I do indeed own who I am, and that confidence is, as has been thoroughly noted already, most important. You can be sure i'd not get that open interest from ladies, I don't know already, if I wasn't comfortable in my presentation.

Which brings me to the present and one last point. I have recently gotten to know a 30 yr old, lovely (inside and out) young woman, and even though we haven't had a talk about me and why I look as I do, she is one of those truly open-minded types. We were in a group of peeps just hanging out and chatting and she got my attention and covertly made a little hand gesture to me indicating I had something on my face.
I excused myself, took a peek in a mirror and some of my mascara had flaked off and was smudged on my cheek under my eye; I think she obviously would just have reached up and took care of it or said something outright if I had been any female.

I am sensing she might have some feelings for me, but given the rather large age gap (I have 25 yrs on her) and other circumstances i'm just treating her as any other friend...…...for now.

The main point to that, and one that relates to the whole topic overall, but also something that will prolly not affect any of us on this forum (unless your 18 to 25) is that times are changing and there will come a time, someday (could be 50 yrs) that we will see more acceptance.
With that acceptance there will be more open dating between cis-genders and transgenders.

Cass

[Di]

For one I
Don't like Alphas at all , which probably sent me down this road in the first place .
What I would need to know up FRONT is
The truth
How deep is this/ how much is involved ( for my own knowledge)
Do you actually think you are a woman ( I am straight so that would not work . I can't deal with transition so its better to know that NOW )
Or do you like women fine and this is something you do that you just like, feel better in, find is pretty etc .

Just be honest about everything , please, and yes you will get primarily answers from men who want to take a walk on the wild side . It drove my fetish cd'er crazy

I've seen many CDers

I came away with the opinion that it's not "the clothes", it's the behavior that causes previously accepting SO's to become disenchanted and tired of CDing. Dutchess touched on that issue also.

GG's just don't get excited about underwear, going through drive-thru's wearing a dress, getting their pictures taken, sitting dressed up including heels around the house, or taking the garbage out in a skirt. Most make sure their dresses are not showing too much leg when a truck goes by. The things that many CDers seem to enjoy are just boring and commonplace to many GG's.

There are obviously couples who enjoy each other's attributes. My guess is that they have full and interesting lives beyond CDing.

I agree that order for a partner to understand you, you must understand yourself.

I agree with Dutchess and Char understand yourself and be honest .
So many are told this and that and then more comes out then more where if a GG wants to support and be in a relationship they start to think / what is the truth? What else are they hiding?
I was very lucky - knew from the beginning, met here, met Sherlyn first and grew together. I made it clear we had to be on the same page as we were.

[phili]

Finding a mate is complicated at best- and at 67 and 32 years of marriage I feel very confident to say that loving the person you are with and being yourself fully are the twin pillars of enjoying life, and we only get one go around. I am also very confident that thoughtfully arranged marriages have just as much chance of succeeding well as romantic discoveries out on the town or reasonable choices made at church.

We are not in danger of getting killed any more, most places, and in most places people understand gender variance. Therefore it is better to own your crossdressing, and focus on knowing who you are first with respect to crossdressing and everything else about you, and then being upfront about it all in the mate search.

Finding a mate is like hitchhiking- you may wait a long time but the ride is coming!

And in the meantime, even in the worse case, there are plenty of ways to love people you are with without getting married, and everyone who is out finds that people for the most part are fine with us, and we can have normal platonic love relationships. That is better than imprisonment in a marriage.You do not want to feel imprisoned by marriage. Anyone who is can attest to that.

Part of our problem is that we have romantic notions of being sexually attractive as crossdressers, and that is a very low % option, since we need others who have similarly mixed gender signal wiring.

But if we consider ourselves like any other outliers we have to simply admit we are just another variant human minority, and we will experience the same trouble [or is it really trouble?] with that as any other minority.

Not feeling sorry for ourselves is essential. Haven't we noticed that we are attracted to any beaming person, even if they are x minority?

[char GG]

I've seen many CDers in my husband's Crossdressing social group (this was not a TS group). Many were open about secretly hiding things from their SO's, (clothes, of course), places they went, some were having affairs with women and/or men. One even had an apartment in another town so he could "do his thing". Many didn't not want to do things such as vacations, unless they could do it dressed. One had to have a new dress for every outing (and the outings included Friday and Saturday every weekend).

I came away with the opinion that it's not "the clothes", it's the behavior that causes previously accepting SO's to become disenchanted and tired of CDing. Dutchess touched on that issue also.

GG's just don't get excited about underwear, going through drive-thru's wearing a dress, getting their pictures taken, sitting dressed up including heels around the house, or taking the garbage out in a skirt. Most make sure their dresses are not showing too much leg when a truck goes by. The things that many CDers seem to enjoy are just boring and commonplace to many GG's.

There are obviously couples who enjoy each other's attributes. My guess is that they have full and interesting lives beyond CDing.

I agree that order for a partner to understand you, you must understand yourself.

[KatrinaK]

I definitely don't have a magic pill for you here Lexi, but I'll take you up on your offer and share the insights on the subject that I've learned from my wife, filtered through my own perspective.

My wife is about as accepting as you can get, but she definitely doesn't jump up and down in excitement about it. It has however been a turn on for her at several points, though that's the exception to the rule.

Couple of facts: my wife is a tomboy (an extremely feminine boho chic tomboy, but a tomboy,) and almost certainly bisexual. I think those two facts help tremendously. She brings the fact that she's always had strong tomboy inclinations up in with our gender therapist regularly as she explains that she tries to understand what I'm going though.

Here's the crux: my wife has talked time and time again about "owning it." For instance: my wife enjoys us getting manicures together. But when we went out in public the first time and I was afraid of people seeing my painted fingernails.... MAJOR turnoff. Now that I'm not insecure about my painted fingernails... TURN ON. What I've learned from that is that any insecurities or lack of self-acceptance you have will be amplified 10x in your SO because it's not their burden to bear. Same thing happened with shaving my legs. She only was ever turned off by my insecurities about what other people would think of me.

What I'm about to say next isn't going to be particularly popular, but it's very much the deep emotional side of OWNING IT. (those are her words not mine for how to stay married to her as a CD)

Owning it is more than being comfortable dressing around her or going out in public with nail polish on my fingers. Owning it means having a mature emotional conversation with both yourself and her. I STRONGLY believe that crossdressing isn't a habit we pick up or a choice that we make. The urge to present as the opposite sex is borne from some degree of non-conforming gender identity or gender dysphoria. AND THAT'S OKAY. For me, it's mild, and expressing as a little genderfluid most of the time and fully bi-gender twice a month is enough. I have it good on the spectrum, but I'll admit that I'm on it. And in doing so, I can have a very serious, mature, conversation with my wife about that. We don't discuss crossdressing. We discuss my gender expression needs. It takes the kink out of it. If I had told me wife that I like to dress up as a woman without telling her that there are deep seeded reasons why I HAVE to do it, she would have left me already. Without a doubt.... because it's only telling her half the story and she's smart enough to see through that.

I personally believe that most of us full-presentation crossdressers have some "owning it" to do when it comes to admitting, at least to ourselves, WHY we do it. And if we can't even admit to ourselves WHY we do it, how are we supposed to have a mature, transparent and honest discussion befitting the dignity of an intimate relationship with our SOs? Women are incredibly emotionally intelligent and empathetic creatures, and they can see through that in a heartbeat.

My point is that it's a lot easier to have a mature conversation about gender identity than it is to have one about "dressing up."

And Asew, I challenge you to put those pics back up as a non-binary or genderfluid looking for a woman. If you left yourself as a straight male, you’re barking up the wrong tree.

[sweetdreams]

Katrina, I agree.

I half-heartedly (tongue in cheek) threw out a motto a while ago but the more I think about it, the more it makes sense:

• Own it - meaning be willing to tell the world this is what you feel (being feminine). This is who I am and what I like to do occasionally. I like presenting as female in feminine clothes, fabrics, and colors. It's a part of me that needs expression. At times it oozes out of me. Like a moth to a flame. Irresistible.
• Do it - dress up and be feminine.
• Be it - go about your business as you feel the need. Have you ever watched GGs stroll through the mall. Eyes straight ahead, focused, and doing what they need to do with little concern for what others think - no apologies. Emulate that.

When ever I've gone out in public like a mall, if I felt out of place like I shouldn't be there doing what I'm doing I've had a few odd looks. If I go out with confidence with no apologies, I rarely get a second look.

[nikkiwindsor]

I told my wife about my feminine side when I preparing to ask for her hand in marriage. She accepted my marriage proposal with the understanding that I wouldn't dress up. I've explained in other threads how things worked for us. It hasn't always been easy but I was really wise in opening up to her before we got married. What amazes me each day is that she really does love me!

[Anne E]

Hi Katrina,

Thank you. I'll have to read that several more times, but I believe it's key.

Best,
Anne

[Rhonda Jean]

Here's the crux: my wife has talked time and time again about "owning it." For instance: my wife enjoys us getting manicures together. But when we went out in public the first time and I was afraid of people seeing my painted fingernails.... MAJOR turnoff. Now that I'm not insecure about my painted fingernails... TURN ON. What I've learned from that is that any insecurities or lack of self-acceptance you have will be amplified 10x in your SO because it's not their burden to bear. Same thing happened with shaving my legs. She only was ever turned off by my insecurities about what other people would think of me.

This is an important point! I wouldn't have been able to put it so succinctly, but I've experienced it. I STILL struggle with it, actually. I'm absolutely comfortable, solo. In public with the woman I dated for a long time... totally different. Taking your example of getting our nails done... I've done this alone for decades. I have no insecurity about it alone. I LOVED us getting our nails done together and loved the fact that she was so comfortable with me being "out there" like that. It was astonishing to me how she just didn't care. She didn't care where we went, who we ran into, what the reaction was. I was awesome! I was the one lagging behind in this, and she did not get it, and it took away from her enjoyment of it all. It was the same with the purse in male mode. She bought me the first purse I carried in male mode. It was SO thoughtful! I loved it and it meant so much to me that she'd do that for me and that she wanted/expected me to carry it. It was an adjustment. There was a couple of times I was going to leave it in the house if we were going someplace that I was not comfortable carrying it. I was already in the car, and she'd come out of the house with it saying, "You forgot your purse."

Nail polish and a purse are a couple of my "tells" in male mode and I love the telling, but it was not without effort that I could go out with her as a couple and be comfortable like that. We still often go get mani pedis, facials, brows done, etc. together, and to be totally honest it still tenses me up a little. If I'm acting weird about it, I can tell it takes all the fun out of it for her. When I can own it, she loves it!

[Maid_Marion]

Yes, women need to talk about the truth. If they know about it the both of you can deal with it. If you hide it and they find out they will wonder what else you are hiding.

In my case I like women but like women's clothes because they just happen to fit my size 2 figure perfectly!
A total 180 from the struggles to find age appropriate men's clothing that fits. If you are too small for 36S suit you are screwed!

[AngelaYVR]

It’s not like there are identifiable pockets of them in certain geographical areas.
I’ve found several who have views ranging anywhere from tolerant to drag you home and come to momma.

I found them by dressing up stylishly (women adore well put together outfits) and being out there. Eventually you catch their eye or they are bold and make the first move. It’s all for nought to me, in a relationship with a woman who accepts me as I am.

But there are available women out there who want confident, glamourous dressers. As one female friend told me “it’s kind of erotic”.